[WW] Crimson Moon III - Game ends in a Draw?

[Zurai]

I don't know what the hell is with that post Newcastle, but you have GOT to be a wolf. Unagi was just proved to be not-a-wolf, which means he was almost certainly the Priest, which means Austin was a wolf. Even without that though, there was very, very little reason to suspect him as not being the priest - it'd be fantastically stupid for all three wolves to out themselves by being in collaboration with a fake priest like that.

[Silky]

Well well well. What do the villagers think about this? It looks like Remus was right after all and the wolves couldn't afford to keep the priest alive. It is my guess that they had two confirmed specials down and did not want to take that risk.

So it is my assumption that Pr0ner and myself are to be trusted yes? Of course this also means that Austin is a wolf who wrongly accused Pr0ner.

Of the remaining I am most trusting of Triggercut with Mr. Bubbles coming in somewhere behind that.

Before Pr0ner or myself starts a lynch run I would like to know who you guys think is the most likely to be a wolf. We have 3 chances to get 2.

[triggercut]

Ok. Unagi is dead.

1. Unagi is not a wolf

2. Unagi's death proves the innocence of pr0ner and Silky. It proves the lie of Austin's "Seer" vision...as if him having 2 visions when there was only one makes it work any better.

3. If Austin is a wolf, Remus is a wolf.

4. Newcastle, based on his actions after Austin was sent to the noose looks like the third wolf, which is convenient, since I was still thinking Zurai/Mr. Bubbles was our wolf guy.

[triggercut]

Lynch Remus West.

Let's get it started.

[Newcastle]

/walks to the center of the village, notices the angry glares and suspicious glances of the villagers, puts his hand in front of him, starts to fall back some

"Now, now hear me out, please just give me a moment. My actions seem mightily odd. Mightily odd. However, there was a method to my madness.

1. I believed last night that Unaqi was the priest. The proner and silky proofs were enough.
1b. no wolf would come out with that play. The math didn't add up.

I believed unaqi to be the priest. Pure and simple. Hence I believed in proners and silky's innocence.

now why did i do what i did. Simple enough, to make the wolves think they had a chance at lynching unaqi today. I was hoping they would target someone else. When i read what had been posted, it only made sense for the wolves to go after unaqi. I mean why risk the chance of the priest being alive and allowing him to uncover one more innocent and therefore creating a rock solid voting party. I wanted them to gamble to be honest, and target someone else, i wanted them to be hones to target triggercut, and create a seed of doubt. or better yet, target me (though that did not make sense in the scenarios i was running through my head). I can die and the only thing that would be lost would be a vote for the villagers and one less unknown for the wolves to hang out amongst.

I know, i know it can look like a purely wolfish thing to do. And I am rushing to type this explanation so that i am not railroaded.

however, i hope you look at how i have posted in this game, i have tried to give well thought out actions, and raiontalizations in this game for my actions. So i would hope tha tyou would see that post as being out of char4acter.

you have to read a bit into this...but in my brief little post, i typed /walks away in a huff, disgusted - this is a leap...but you can also read that as being disgusted in myself for doing this - accusing unaqi.

The fact that i am having to type up this explanation is not the best of situations, i was hoping they would potentially target me or triggercut. The only way i could do that is to put a huge ass target on me. Not the most thought out play, but honestly what else can i do. I wanted unaqi to live, i wanted him to be able to identify 1 more villager and lock in the voting block. i want the villagers to win this game. So i did the only thing i thoguht i could do...and that is try to create the perception that people would be willing to vote for unaqi. hence just maybe sparing him for tonight.

You see I read the post by remus with great interest, the reason being is that he broke the numbers down, and while we seem like we are in good shape...we still have a chance at losing this. We need to clear 1 more person out of the suspected 4 (remus, zurai, bubbles and myself) in order to win. That is going off the basis that we have two wolves left...which is what i am doing (think worse case scenario).

The only thing we do know, is that we have taken down austin. We have no way of knowing if we have killed anything else yet.

Yes I did protect austin up till yesterday because I thought he was the seer. That is why i defended him. I thought he was the seer, and to be honest I will do that in any game. You have to protect an asset like that. I make no apologies for that. None. I will do that in each and every game i am in. However, since he is not the seer, i would have bee nmore than happy to toss a vote on him.

I would urge you guys to vote slow. I am not going to insult you and cry that i am an innocent ; but i am going to explain my actions. YOU guys do deserve that.

in addition, i knew the vote had been closed. It was a simple gambit to make it look as if i wasnt paying attention and that there was a chance unaqi could be voted off. Without unaqi, we lose our ability to 100% verify other villagers. With unaqi surviving onemore night we have a strong chance at identifying other innocents in the village (like me). I just hope you can understand why i did that. pure and simple.

For the record I do believe austin was a wolf, and am thankful that unaqi came out when he did. He blew this thing wide open and he deserves kudos for that. it would have been better if he had waited one more night, but i guess a bird in hand is better than 2 in the bush. After all we do have a good amount of info now. In fact we have a lot more than we did yesterday.

My take on things.

Those I am willing to trust:
silky, proner, - obvious why

most likely trustable
Trigger cut (only reason i put you here, is that you havent been 100% verified, but for all intents and purposes i think you are 99.9%, your going after austin like that is a very unwolfish thing to do).

suspects list -
Remus - while i agree looking at the other side is laudible...the math of unaqi being the wolf, and outing two innocents with their precise professions is slim to none. he woudl have to guess incredibly for that to eb true...for him to be a wolf, i just dont buy it. or even for all the wolves to be the same would have been incredibly bad for them to do.

Zurai - unverified at all in this game. quite possibly a wolf due to the chances. I need to go back over and figure him out. I am willing to follow triggercuts analysis though.

Bubbles- the under the radar bit bothers me greatly. I dont have a feel for how his thinking is and i dont like that.

Newcastle - (cribbing from triggercut) - defended austin, made an outlandish claim v. a proven priest., vote v. lassr, (i know i am innocent, you guys dont, am simply putting myself in here, because i havent been cleared)

i apologize to silky and proner for my earlier accusations. I didnt know your innocence.

I hope that clarifies it, and i intend on being around this weekend to inject my participation.

/bows humbly before the village

[Silky]

Newcastle,

I do think your play would have been horrible if you were a wolf. It makes a strange sort of sense if you are a villager. If this is a ruse and you actually are a wolf I must admit it to be a brilliant one. I must think more on this and ask the villages input as well. BTW thanks for the explanation. That must have taken some time to type up.

[triggercut]

Well well well. What do the villagers think about this? It looks like Remus was right after all and the wolves couldn't afford to keep the priest alive. It is my guess that they had two confirmed specials down and did not want to take that risk.

So it is my assumption that Pr0ner and myself are to be trusted yes? Of course this also means that Austin is a wolf who wrongly accused Pr0ner.

Of the remaining I am most trusting of Triggercut with Mr. Bubbles coming in somewhere behind that.

Before Pr0ner or myself starts a lynch run I would like to know who you guys think is the most likely to be a wolf. We have 3 chances to get 2.

I think Remus is the most likely. Has to be.

1. Second vote right behind Austin to lynch Lassr.
2. Unflaggingly championed Austin's cause when he was an accused innocent, and then proclaimed "Seer".
3. Despite the impossibility of the real Seer being able to scan 2 players by Day 2--which rendered Austin's reported "scan" as inoperable--he used the basis of that bogus scan to accuse pr0ner for the lynch. Surely he should've questioned that and seen through that ruse sooner than someone like me who had his mind made up?

I'm sure our second wolf is Remus, but I welcome further discussion on the matter. Newcastle, what say you to that?

[Newcastle]

i say lynch remus west to be honest. He has shot up to the top of my list of suspects. He has truly championed and defended austin, which makes me wonder why. I have every intend on voting for him today. Howeve, I am not going to vote untill everyone has a chance to check in.

And silky thanks for the semi vote of confidence. as i said we need 1 more piece of info to wrap this up, i was hoping to do that. but i didnt.

[Remus West]

3. If Austin is a wolf, Remus is a wolf.

You are still an idiot. I am not a wolf.

[pr0ner]

3. If Austin is a wolf, Remus is a wolf.

You are still an idiot. I am not a wolf.

Oh? Your play has done nothing but harm the village.

All signs point to wolf.

[triggercut]

Hey Remus, how about this: what if I we all drop our Austin votes and vote for Zurai instead, and see if we get a reading there? What about that?

Why would we move away from a sure thing? Either pr0ner or Austin is a wolf. One of them goes to the noose today. And your idea that Zurai and pr0ner must be wolves together is not an idea I am buying into. So, no, I would not like that. I would like if folks moved Austin away from the edge so that he does not get offed before all check in.

This post/response makes me believe that Zurai is Wolf 3.

I'd lynch in this order:

1. Remus (my vote is in.)
2. Zurai
3. coinflip on Bubbles/Newcastle.

Newcastle's explanation actually makes some absurd sense. I think.

[triggercut]

3. If Austin is a wolf, Remus is a wolf.

You are still an idiot. I am not a wolf.

I'm happily the village idiot who has accused only wolves for the noose so far (other than a brief, ultimately retracted vote on Silky).

Please, Remus, while we wait until your chance to do the air-boogie, explain your vehement defense of Austin in a way that doesn't make you look like the wolf.

[Remus West]

O.k., to address those who are complaining that I "championed" Austin. Look at the first day. What did I say? I said it was a horrid reason to bandwagon someone for having a bad sense of humor. That it would have worked I guess makes the joke on me but the fact remains that it is a bad reason. Second day, I held to the fact that we should give the Seer time to prove himself. When Unagi came out, what did I do first? I withdrew my vote on pr0ner. Work out the difference between the two contrary claims. I then proceeded to outline how Unagi could be a wolf. If AND ONLY IF pr0ner and Silky were also wolves. I made no statement saying he had guessed their "roles", wolves were assigned "roles" as well so all a fake Priest wolf need do is give out the real "roles" his partners were assigned.

You will note that I did not cast a vote FOR ANYONE yesterday.

I did not agree with triggercut's "iron clad deduction" regarding Austin that began the bandwagon on him. I said so. I still do not agree with it. It worked, so great, but I still don't agree with the method. To many holes in it.

If you believe Newcastle to be innocent and you believe triggercut innocent then the last two wolves are Mr Bubbles and Zurai. I'm not so sure I believe the first two statements that make that the case though. And yes, I know you all think I'm a wolf so do not care.

I have been thinking about triggercut a lot though. I said he had to be human yesterday. I outlined reasons why. But why was he so sure of Lassr's innocence? I felt good about why I voted for Lassr. So why was another normal villager so certain? He assured us that he is a normal, not the Coroner, but only the Coroner could have been so certain. I think I need to go back and look at his posts regarding it. I am still inclined to trust him but I do need the reread.

I guess what I am saying is take your time. I understand the suspicion directed at me, but do not rush into anything.

[Remus West]

3. If Austin is a wolf, Remus is a wolf.

You are still an idiot. I am not a wolf.

I'm happily the village idiot who has accused only wolves for the noose so far (other than a brief, ultimately retracted vote on Silky).

You are accusing an innocent right now.

Please, Remus, while we wait until your chance to do the air-boogie, explain your vehement defense of Austin in a way that doesn't make you look like the wolf.

I did not defend him, I questioned and attacked the method used to attack him. Why were you so very certain he was lying BEFORE Unagi came forward?

[Remus West]

3. If Austin is a wolf, Remus is a wolf.

You are still an idiot. I am not a wolf.

Oh? Your play has done nothing but harm the village.

All signs point to wolf.

How has what I have done harmed the village besides making you think I am a wolf when I am not? All I have done it outline that there are other possibilities than the one grabbed onto by those without means of knowing. Clearly Silky and yourself knew and should grab onto it, by why others?

[triggercut]

You will note that I did not cast a vote FOR ANYONE yesterday.

From page 11:

Just in case it is nt clear where I stand on this pr0ner.

What else you got?

[Remus West]

You will note that I did not cast a vote FOR ANYONE yesterday.

From page 11:

Just in case it is nt clear where I stand on this pr0ner.

What else you got?

I thought I had withdrawn that. Or is that a reinstatement? I'll go back and read.

[triggercut]

You will note that I did not cast a vote FOR ANYONE yesterday.

From page 11:

Just in case it is nt clear where I stand on this pr0ner.

What else you got?

I thought I had withdrawn that. Or is that a reinstatement? I'll go back and read.

Not sure, but whether it was retracted or a reinstatement, it's a vote for someone at some point yesterday.

[Remus West]

Ok. We have some very interesting and solid information.

Bear with me, my brain is swimming right now. I'm going to try to post this with some clarity, so I hope it can be followed.

1. Let us assume that on the first day, we faced 3 werewolves. I highly doubt they'd kill Grund on day one to "throw us off". There's zilch to be gained from it, and I'm pretty sure that it's against the rules. SO: 3 werewolves.

2. Let us also assume that the werewolves would try--within reason--to keep their teammates upright in the game. Since this game doesn't give the village immediate feedback on the guilt or innocence of their lynch victims, defending your wolfpal is probably less risky than in games where the team allegiance is revealed at the lynch.

Given those two things, I think all signs point to the fact that:

Lassr was a villager. Probably unpowered--I hope.

I base this not off any powered information. I base it off simple deduction. Take a look at the day 1 vote as it shook out this morning. Lassr stands at five votes, and resignedly says that he might as well vote for himself. Then--and this is the key to the whole deduction I've made--he gives us the keys to solving this: he says he'll be otherwise occupied for the rest of the day.

Ok. lets take the assumption that Lassr was a werewolf, and shoot it down. Let's say you're on the werewolf team, and you see your teammate Lassr on the verge of hanging. He then announces that he's out for the day. Given that information,

1. It would start off as being extremely unlikely that a werewolf would have an active vote sitting on Lassr, but even if that were the case...

2. When Lassr announced he was leaving, surely any wolf with an active vote on their buddy would've pulled it.

Nothing of the sort happened, of course. Unagi changed his vote, and Lassr bought it.

If Lassr was a werewolf, we can then assume that his two accomplices had votes on other players. Let's look at registered non-Lassr voters.

1. Triggercut voted for Remus. I never bought into Lassr being a werewolf.

2. pr0ner, Lassr, and tru1cy voted for Austin. 2 of those players are now dead. We know one was innocent. I'm 99% sure the other was, too.

3. Zurai pulled his Austin vote at the last minute and didn't register a vote before the lynch.

So then. What we have is this:

Either the other two werewolves are in the set of Zurai, pr0ner, and me....or all three wolves are fat and happy and Lassr was innocent. I'm telling you that from where I sit as an innocent, I know I'm good. That means that Zurai and pr0ner are our other two (along with Lassr) werewolves.

And, if you believe that, you believe also that without any guidance from a priest, seer, or coroner, six villagers lit on Lassr and got it right on the first day. I don't buy it. Here's what I think is the more likely scenario:

1. One wolf got into a Lassr vote early on, just to test the waters. The other two stayed out, or had votes on other players just to see how things played.

2. Eventually, as Lassr attracted a few more votes, a second wolf jumped on-board.

3. Finally, a third wolf either committed to coming onto the Lassr vote...or pulled off altogether to "think about it."

I think this scenario is the correct one, based on simple probability. That gives us 2 and possibly 3 werewolves in the set of:

Austin
Remus
Bubbles
Unagi
Newcastle
Silky

I think there are a number of possible scenarios here involving various members of these six. Right now though, I think Unagi is an innocent dupe who saved Zurai from having to commit to being the third wolf in the vote of an innocent. Zurai, I think is a wolf.

I think either Mr. Bubbles or Newcastle is the second wolf.

I think Austin or Remus is the instigator wolf.

More in a while.

If we're not into the night by the time I get home and settled in from work (3-4 hours from now), I guess I'll have to end this. I don't think either Austin or Lassr are wolves, but this day started out slow and never picked up steam.

To that end - and because I'm now alone on Silky and it doesn't look like that'll change - withdraw Silky. I'll check back in a few hours.

First there is triggercuts explanation of why Lassr was not a wolf. I still disagree with the idea that no wolf would vote for another on the first day but lets look at the rest of the post because I had actually pulled up the Zurai quote BEFORE getting to triggercuts. Zurai's post was made right between a post of mine showing the vote count with Lassr at 5 and Unagi casting the sixth vote. You remember Zurai right? The guy who said he was going to cast a vote when it meant something or something like that.

O.k., now lets look back a triggercut's analysis of the Lassr lynch

1. One wolf got into a Lassr vote early on, just to test the waters. The other two stayed out, or had votes on other players just to see how things played.

2. Eventually, as Lassr attracted a few more votes, a second wolf jumped on-board.

3. Finally, a third wolf either committed to coming onto the Lassr vote...or pulled off altogether to "think about it."

Sadly I was part of those few more votes if more wolves came on. Do you see the wolves making the first two votes on an innocent though? Then leaving them there for days?

Mostly this gives rise to a few things for me. First off I am back to trusting triggercut. Second it makes me suspect Zurai. I'll be back to that.

[Remus West]

You will note that I did not cast a vote FOR ANYONE yesterday.

From page 11:

Just in case it is nt clear where I stand on this pr0ner.

What else you got?

I thought I had withdrawn that. Or is that a reinstatement? I'll go back and read.

Not sure, but whether it was retracted or a reinstatement, it's a vote for someone at some point yesterday.

My original statement was not meant that I never voted for anyone. I cast a pr0ner vote after Austin came forward saying he was the Seer. I withdrew it when Unagi came forward. I can not remember if I put it back. Not to that point to the thread yet but I will get there.

[Zurai]

lets look at the rest of the post because I had actually pulled up the Zurai quote BEFORE getting to triggercuts. Zurai's post was made right between a post of mine showing the vote count with Lassr at 5 and Unagi casting the sixth vote. You remember Zurai right? The guy who said he was going to cast a vote when it meant something or something like that.

Again, please do not lie to make your case.

I said I would only change my vote from someone I believed to be a wolf (though Silky has now been exonerated) to someone I did not believe to be a wolf if that was the only way to move the game forward. Since it very clearly was NOT the only way to move the game forward, I don't see how that shows anything at all.

This post/response makes me believe that Zurai is Wolf 3.

Can you please explain your reasoning to me, in small words so I can understand it?

[Remus West]

Just in case it is nt clear where I stand on this pr0ner.

Thursday 10:56 PM

I'm the Priest.

Friday 10:36 AM

Well I have little doubt that silky will confirm things. Meaning we have the three wolves. Problem is that they only need silky's vote on me so I'm likely toast. If the Coroner is out there you must scan me tomorrow. If the Coroner is dead... not good. Sorry friends, I fear I'm a much better bad guy than a seer.

In the face of overwhelming evidence, you've done a masterful job of almost convincing the village of your innocence, while drawing out one of our specials. Coroner, stay hidden. Seer, stay hidden.

Sadly, the "evidence" you continued to present was lacking in fact and life. Now then, either all three pr0ner, Silky, and Unagi are wolves or Austin is. The safe bet for now is to lynch Austin due to the conflicting nature of the information.

Keep in mind for tomorrow though. IF Unagi lives through the night then we must lynch the other three unless he can give us a fourth innocent. A fourth innocent seals the game for the village so the wolves can not risk allowing Unagi to have that chance.

withdraw pr0ner

Friday 11:00 AM, my first post after Unagi came forward.

Never reinstated. All I did yesterday was argue the possibilities of other things than Unagi telling the truth. In fairness though, a wolf would have withdrawn his vote to AND the voting was closed almost right after that (well, Austin was locked into being lynched anyway but CR did not check in for a loooong while after). However the bolded part was added here to illustrate what I thought BEFORE voting closed. I still stand by my arguments that there were other possibilities than Unagi telling the truth (even if it is obvious he was, it was possible he was not).

[Remus West]

Alright, a couple last things before I check out for a while.

I have two assumptions right now.
1. The village is going to end up lynching me today.
2. Our Coroner is still alive.

Tomorrow when I have been lynched he will know that I was not a wolf. Do not bother coming forward with this knowledge. It won't matter, just know that you can then reread my posts here and maybe they will help.

I think Zurai is a wolf.

I also think that Bubbles is the other wolf.

I feel very secure about Zurai, not so much Bubbles. Bubbles is based mostly off of how quickly he showed up when I called him out early in the game. He hasn't given us much to work with since then. His vote on Austin also makes me wonder though since it looks like the perfect "cover" vote.

[Remus West]

You've given us 1 meaningful post, and that post was to complain that not enough people are posting meaningful posts.

Also, 4 votes is only 1 vote away from being 'Really close to being hung'... I'd say Austin is actually close to being hung, and it's interesting that you have chosen to totally ignore that.

How am I totally ignoring it? By your own admission he isn't really close to being strung up. "Really close to being hung" is 5 votes, not 4. If I was voting for Austin at the moment, we STILL would be on day 1. Thus, at the moment, my vote has no signifigance other than the fact that I have registered a vote (unlike Mr. Bubbles, like usual).

Seriously, you're going to make me just not comment at all if you keep acting like a rabid attack dog.

I do encourage silky, newcastle, zurai, bubbles, triggercut, and misguided pr0ner, to vote Lassr for noose.

I don't intend to change my vote except under one of two circumstances:

1) Signifigant new information comes out that points to a very likely wolf.
2) The vote stalls at 5 votes for one person to hang for a signifigant amount of time.

The first quote interested me when paired with the idea that the wolves would have wanted to avoid putting one of their own on the gallows turn 1.

The second is in direct response to Zurai calling me a liar.

lets look at the rest of the post because I had actually pulled up the Zurai quote BEFORE getting to triggercuts. Zurai's post was made right between a post of mine showing the vote count with Lassr at 5 and Unagi casting the sixth vote. You remember Zurai right? The guy who said he was going to cast a vote when it meant something or something like that.

Again, please do not lie to make your case.

I said I would only change my vote from someone I believed to be a wolf (though Silky has now been exonerated) to someone I did not believe to be a wolf if that was the only way to move the game forward. Since it very clearly was NOT the only way to move the game forward, I don't see how that shows anything at all.

This post/response makes me believe that Zurai is Wolf 3.

Can you please explain your reasoning to me, in small words so I can understand it?

[Zurai]

I don't intend to change my vote except under one of two circumstances:

1) Signifigant new information comes out that points to a very likely wolf.
2) The vote stalls at 5 votes for one person to hang for a signifigant amount of time.

The second is in direct response to Zurai calling me a liar.

Exactly. If the vote stalls at 5 votes for one person to hang for a singifigant amount of time.

By your own direct admission, there was very little time between votes 5 and 6 on Lassr. I posted in that time frame, yes, but I made it clear that I did not want to be the one to kill the (now almost certainly innocent) Lassr.

If I was a wolf, wouldn't I have jumped on the chance to kill him?

[Remus West]

I don't intend to change my vote except under one of two circumstances:

1) Signifigant new information comes out that points to a very likely wolf.
2) The vote stalls at 5 votes for one person to hang for a signifigant amount of time.

The second is in direct response to Zurai calling me a liar.

Exactly. If the vote stalls at 5 votes for one person to hang for a singifigant amount of time.

By your own direct admission, there was very little time between votes 5 and 6 on Lassr. I posted in that time frame, yes, but I made it clear that I did not want to be the one to kill the (now almost certainly innocent) Lassr.

If I was a wolf, wouldn't I have jumped on the chance to kill him?

Absolutely not. That last vote was sure to attract suspicion. A wolf would have stayed as far from that 6th vote as possible.

[Silky]

Alright, a couple last things before I check out for a while.

I have two assumptions right now.
1. The village is going to end up lynching me today.
2. Our Coroner is still alive.

Tomorrow when I have been lynched he will know that I was not a wolf. Do not bother coming forward with this knowledge. It won't matter, just know that you can then reread my posts here and maybe they will help.

I think Zurai is a wolf.

I also think that Bubbles is the other wolf.

I feel very secure about Zurai, not so much Bubbles. Bubbles is based mostly off of how quickly he showed up when I called him out early in the game. He hasn't given us much to work with since then. His vote on Austin also makes me wonder though since it looks like the perfect "cover" vote.

Interesting ideas and specifically the reasons why I do not want to railroad anyone without some good village discussion. I tend to agree with your assumption that the coroner is alive.

I believe this ironically enough due to a post you made about Austin coming out as the seer vs coming out as the coroner if he were a wolf. That probably would have been preferable to them if they had eaten the coroner. Since they ate the seer instead they went that route. At least that wouldn't be contested by the real seer.

I haven't totally thought this through but I think it is a good idea if the coroner comes forward. I don't mean to imply that he would be totally trusted but he could be helpful. If he is killed by the wolves it gives the village someone else to trust. If he is not, he might be a great target for the third and final lynch. Of course whoever is killed by the wolves will be trusted but does anyone see any reason why it wouldn't be pr0ner and myself over the next two days?

Yes I think it could be helpful if the coroner comes forward if still alive. I would like to know if the rest of the villagers think this is a good idea. The only chink in the armor is the lynching of an innocent coroner on the final day. I suppose that would be a game time decision between who is alive at the time and who isn't.

[Zurai]

Absolutely not. That last vote was sure to attract suspicion. A wolf would have stayed as far from that 6th vote as possible.

Except that obviously staying away attracts suspicion too. Which is it?

[Remus West]

I haven't totally thought this through but I think it is a good idea if the coroner comes forward. I don't mean to imply that he would be totally trusted but he could be helpful. If he is killed by the wolves it gives the village someone else to trust. If he is not, he might be a great target for the third and final lynch. Of course whoever is killed by the wolves will be trusted but does anyone see any reason why it wouldn't be pr0ner and myself over the next two days?

I agree that you 2 are the next two meals most likely. I would however like the Coroner to wait unti ltomorrow if you are going to lynch me today. I think he becomes more valuable then. He should be safe enough tonight, and if they go after him then they leave 2 knowns alive which means they will not be able to get both of you before the final day.

[Silky]

I think it would be my preference if the coroner showed up before the night cycle. Rational would be he gives the wolves another target. You know stand in solidarity with your two confirmed innocents. I personally think I would be slightly less trusting of a coroner that showed up tomorrow. That smells a little bit too much like gamesmanship to me.

[Newcastle]

silky, interesting idea.

coming out as the coroner is a definite idea, only in the sense if he has something to add. I think we have to be very wary right now. Let the coroner think about it. But honestly how can he be trusted? Even a wolf can come out and play as the coroner. That is the danger we run of it. Sorry to play devils advocate right now. Am just thinking this through. If Remus is wolf #2, then the who is wolf #3 zurai or bubbles (or newcastle). Wuold hte wolves dare to come out as the coroner? Would the wolves allow him to live through the night. I think ti would create a viable target instead our two trusted ones. if he comes out, we have another person in the trusted block; if its a wolf....how can we prove it? This is a tough call, and will keep it with the coroner.

damn you CR and your damn blindness.

I am honestly unsure right now. Would we believe him? What proof could he offer?

Sorry for my skepticism here, just trying to see the pros and cons to it. In all honesty, i am very on the fence on it.

and please dont bandwagon this -

and bubbles*

we need you in here

*this is a poke the quiet ones vote and will be withdrawn when said member arrives.

[Remus West]

If the Coroner should choose to come out today that is fine, but he does not give the wolves a new target. Because he can not be proven he can not be on the same level as Silky and pr0ner. They have to remain the targets of the wolves. That said I actually think Silky is correct and he may as well come forward now.

[Mr Bubbles]

and bubbles*

we need you in here

*this is a poke the quiet ones vote and will be withdrawn when said member arrives.

*nod* Trying to catch up now.. the action has been fast and furious.

[Austin]

[Mr Bubbles]

I agree with Silky. I think the Coroner needs to come out before the night cycle. I tell you my spidey sense keeps going off everytime Remus talks. We have a block and I certainly believe we have a couple other people who are trustworthy to really narrow down the pool. I know also that I won't be exempt from the unproven pool, but I really have faith that Trigger is innocent. Zurai is another story. If there is two I would put my finger on Remus and Zurai. Newcastle doesn't strike me as a guilty party, but based on analysis seems to be a top candidate. My personal belief is the wolves lie in the Remus, Zurai, or Newcastle direction.

[Remus West]

My personal belief is the wolves lie in the Remus, Zurai, or Newcastle direction.

Well gee, aren't you the sleuth. Silky and myself (and I think Newcastle) have said that triggercut is almost certainly innocent so you take him out of the loop but leave everyone else not named Bubbles or cleared by the Priest in the wolf group. Wow. Good thinking there. Your first contribution of any type of analysis narrows down the field exactly not at all. Oh, I forgot, you happily pointed the finger at everyones favorite whipping boy as well.

Zurai and Bubbles.

Go ahead and lynch me today but when the Coroner comes forward and clears me you will know you have two left and those two should be the ones.

[Remus West]

You know, maybe everyone could name their top two today, that might help the village tomorrow.

[Silky]

No I don't think that would be helpful. I am sure I can imagine exactly how that would go. I hope you are a wolf Remus but if you are not I believe you understand this is a lynch we have to do. If it is any consolation I am sure I will be joining you shortly.

[triggercut]

Sorry, catching up after hectic night at work.

In an interesting coincidence, I was thinking that we might gain from having the Coroner come out today as well. The more I think about it though, I think it best if he come out ONLY if he has something really useful to share with the group.

I assume that on the first night, the Coroner probably scanned Lassr. I'm almost positive he would have, as his only other choice was Grund, and while it would've been nice to know if Grund had a role, I don't think it was as much a priority as knowing whether Lassr was a wolf or not.

So, night one, let's assume he scanned Lassr's body.

Last night is a little more problematic. I think by the end of things, we knew Austin was a wolf without needing a coroner's confirmation. The blunder with him claiming two nights of scans when he could have had only one if he were the real seer hopefully meant that the Coroner was satisfied without explicitly ID'ing Ausin's corpse. I don't know that for sure, though, so I think it's a 60-40 that he ID'd Austin vs. tru1cy or Grund.

So night two, by a slim margin of probability, he may have ID'd Austin's corpse.

With those two things in mind, I think it's reasonable that our Coroner scanned Lassr and Austin.

We have been basing much of our discussion and evidence on the ideas that:

1. Lassr was a villager, and
2. Austin was a wolf.

So. I would say that our Coroner should come out TODAY if he has information that contradicts either number one or number two....OR if he has information on Grundbegriff or tru1cy instead of those two. It might also be useful to find out if he got a scan on the first night (when Grundbegriff was killed), although I think again that that was a blunder by Austin.

That's where I'm thinking right now, anyway.

[Mr Bubbles]

My personal belief is the wolves lie in the Remus, Zurai, or Newcastle direction.

Well gee, aren't you the sleuth. Silky and myself (and I think Newcastle) have said that triggercut is almost certainly innocent so you take him out of the loop but leave everyone else not named Bubbles or cleared by the Priest in the wolf group. Wow. Good thinking there. Your first contribution of any type of analysis narrows down the field exactly not at all. Oh, I forgot, you happily pointed the finger at everyones favorite whipping boy as well.

Zurai and Bubbles.

Go ahead and lynch me today but when the Coroner comes forward and clears me you will know you have two left and those two should be the ones.

Remus Would you like some cheese with your whine.. Man... take it like a man and suck it up. Whether think I'm a sluth or not.. I could care less. I was asked my opinion and I gave it.. you don't like it.. tough.