World of Darkness-Kine Strikes Back-Game Over-Kindred Win

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:46 am

Kraegor wrote:
Remus wrote:whether Genghis is the Mage or Unagi was.
uh huh. wanna flesh out HTF that one works? damn dude you really did it didnt you? you actually put everyone's name on a piece of paper....put em on a dart board and then CR kicked ya in the nuts. And here we are with cross-eyed logic...

If nothing else, you make me laugh out loud. Thanks.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:48 am

Remus West wrote:Either way I have to say "Good Game, Genghis. You have either sold me a cartload of crap as a Vampire or played a masterful game as the Mage.

Yeah. I'll go on record with that in this respect: you (or y'all) have constructed a clever gambit. It would almost be beautiful, if it weren't so ugly.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:50 am

Too many of the wrong people want to start with Kraegor. From my perspective as an innocent mentioned by Genghis I like Grundbegriff first. It still allows me to suspect Genghis, Grund and Remus working together or some such thing. Anyway I'm 95% sure I'd go for a Kraegor vote but a Grund vote looks better to me.

And I'm off to bed.

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:52 am

Yeah, I'm laughing too. It's awesome how easy it is to set me up isn't it? At one point no one has me on radar, but all someone has to do is pretend at magehood and poof! dead me.

Aint the first time, won't be da last. This would be the 4th game the situation has arisen. Only one of time was I actually a bad guy. Yet somehow, folks gobble it up.

Yup, Kraegor's evil. Why? Well...he's snarky...erratic....name's hard to spell....doesn't vote often enough...heard he was a commie sympathizer back in 'Nam...

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:54 am

Austin wrote:Too many of the wrong people want to start with Kraegor. From my perspective as an innocent mentioned by Genghis I like Grundbegriff first. It still allows me to suspect Genghis, Grund and Remus working together or some such thing. Anyway I'm 95% sure I'd go for a Kraegor vote but a Grund vote looks better to me.

And I'm off to bed.

yeah I mean hell even the mage is starting with me, you should cast a different vote so people don't think yer aligned with him. Good move!!

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:54 am

i think right now, i am willing to vote for kraeggor....if he is the berserker....then that gives Genghis a greater survivability rate....that for me is key. We need the mage power to transfer on. Yes its going to create a mess should he survive and transfer his pwoer...because the vamp could claim the power...however...i think another scan would be very beneficial to us. Even if the vamp fakes the power....it would narrow down the suspect list dramatically. ie new mage v. faking vamp.

Just my two cents at the moment. I think right now...should i not survive...this is where my thoguhts are...

Lassr - probably human; his questioning and interaction with the village at large
Proner - probably human - again his interactions lead me to believe he is a villager.
Genghis - probably human; came out first of the day to proclaim magehood.
Austin - human according to genghis...and also can not be the child due to grund being the child.

leaning vampire -
Remus - honestly his game play has faded in and out during the game; my thoughts on him being a vampire have gained steam today. Early in the game he came out very strong...then faded in the back; i think this was day 2....but it caught my eye. Anyway, a discussion for later...should we survive. but he has swayed back and forth in terms of being guilty in my eyes. Also...and this goes back to something i have been hinting at......Siring Grund is a very RISKY play....and i know remus would gamble that way. it also fits in my profile of the way the kills are going....taking out folks who are likely to stay alive to the end game...therefore neutralizing the remus strategy (scan those most likely to be at teh end).

most likely vampires
Grund - according to genghis he is the child
Kraeggor - kaboom! according to Genghis.

Honestly as well...since most of us have checked in...Genghis has had 2 votes on him for a good chunk today.....all the vamps would need to do would be to bum rush him and therefore they would have won the game. The fact that has not happened also gives me more of a firm belief that he is speaking the truth.

I think i will vote for kraeggor...am just going to watch teh discussion a bit more.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:57 am

O.k., last try to explain my thinking and then I am off to bed.

First I lean towards believing Genghis.

***WARNING FAR FETCHED IDEA COMING***
Second, I examined the possibility of Unagi as Mage because of the "Vampires know their kill's role thing". So what do I find when reading through Unagi but that list. As I said, I bet it was done by conjecture even with the assuption that Unagi was the Mage. Unagi Mage would have had 2 scans. Scan 1 Austin. Everyone scans Austin night 1. O.k., so far so good. Scan 2 Krageor. You will note though that Unagi was the first to put the idea of Scoop the dead Priest out there. Conviction or trying to decide if he should come out and name the Beserker? I think the later if this senario is true. Now, as to why he wouldn't come out with two Vamp scans I have an even further out there idea regarding my presence and someone who shall remain nameless telling him he was lying when he last came out in a game with two scans. Maybe he wanted the clean sweep? Don't know. I do not actually believe this senario. That's why I initially said I would MAYBE come back to it. It does make me feel better about the Kraegor vote though because just maybe if Genghis is lying we can still get one today.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:58 am

Code: Select all

  Austin acc Grundbegriff(1)
Genghis acc Kraegor(1)
Grundbegriff acc Genghis(1)
pr0ner acc Grundbegriff(2)
  Austin wd Grundbegriff(1)
Kraegor acc Genghis(2)-
  Remus West acc Kraegor(2)
  Remus West wd Kraegor(1)
Remus West acc Kraegor(2)-
Austin acc Grundbegriff(2)-

Against Grundbegriff(2): pr0ner, Austin
Against Kraegor(2): Genghis, Remus West
Against Genghis(2): Grundbegriff, Kraegor

Votes required for lynchification: 5

No vote registered:
Lassr, Newcastle

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:01 am

Newcastle wrote:leaning vampire -
Remus - honestly his game play has faded in and out during the game; my thoughts on him being a vampire have gained steam today. Early in the game he came out very strong...then faded in the back; i think this was day 2....but it caught my eye. Anyway, a discussion for later...should we survive. but he has swayed back and forth in terms of being guilty in my eyes. Also...and this goes back to something i have been hinting at......Siring Grund is a very RISKY play....and i know remus would gamble that way. it also fits in my profile of the way the kills are going....taking out folks who are likely to stay alive to the end game...therefore neutralizing the remus strategy (scan those most likely to be at teh end).

You know me better than that. I would have KILLED Chaosraven night 1 then sired someone low radar night 2 just like before. I always kill Chaosraven night 1. It's my thing.

As for neutralizing the Remus strategy, whats the point of that? Nobody but me thinks it a good idea at least nobody ever follows it. Countering the strategy only I think the good guys should do is not exactly the best play for Evil Remus.

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:05 am

Grundbegriff wrote:
Code: Select all
  Austin acc Grundbegriff(1)
Genghis acc Kraegor(1)
Grundbegriff acc Genghis(1)
pr0ner acc Grundbegriff(2)
  Austin wd Grundbegriff(1)
Kraegor acc Genghis(2)-
  Remus West acc Kraegor(2)
  Remus West wd Kraegor(1)
Remus West acc Kraegor(2)-
Austin acc Grundbegriff(2)-
Against Grundbegriff(2): pr0ner, Austin
Against Kraegor(2): Genghis, Remus West
Against Genghis(2): Grundbegriff, Kraegor

Votes required for lynchification: 5

No vote registered:
Lassr, Newcastle

see there...Grund placed a false accounting. It completely refutes expected logic. At this point I don't think Grund should be allowed to tally. We need someone who will show a tally of pile on votes so as to make everything nice and obvious. This split decision stuff completely flies in the face of how the vamps have played the game up to this point.

We all know that every vote thus far has been quick and without controversy. The above tally is FAKE!!!! Grund must be replaced as tally master.

Volunteers?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:09 am

Remus West wrote:I bet it was done by conjecture even with the assuption that Unagi was the Mage. ... as to why he wouldn't come out with two Vamp scans I have an even further out there idea .... Maybe he wanted the clean sweep? Don't know. I do not actually believe this senario. That's why I initially said I would MAYBE come back to it. It does make me feel better about the Kraegor vote

Precisely which kind of crack did you say you're smoking?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:10 am

Remus West wrote:As for neutralizing the Remus strategy, whats the point of that? Nobody but me thinks it a good idea

qft

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:14 am

Genghis, Lassr, Remus

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:17 am

Newcastle wrote: Honestly as well...since most of us have checked in...Genghis has had 2 votes on him for a good chunk today.....all the vamps would need to do would be to bum rush him and therefore they would have won the game. The fact that has not happened also gives me more of a firm belief that he is speaking the truth.

Excellent point, one that hadn't crossed my mind.

All the vampires need is an innocent killed today and they win. If Grund and kraegor are innocent then we are dealing with 3 stupid vampires! As only 2 would have to jump on board the Genghis vote.

If only one is a vampire then that one should not be voting for Genghis but voting for the other innocent kine that is identified as a vampire.

Genghis · Post by **Genghis** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:17 am

I think what we need to decide is how important the last scan will be. We have to kill one vamp today and another vamp tomorrow. That means we can not delay killing the berserker past tomorrow. If we kill him today there is a 5% greater chance of the mage surviving. If we kill him tomorrow there is a greater chance of him dying.

There is also this to consider. If we kill him now, and I croak we know the mage is dead and a vamp can not impersanate me. However if we wait and I transfer my power, we do not know if the mage will survive the berserk tomorrow. We will not even know who the mage is. It would be foolish for him to announce himself since he would not have a scan yet. The vamps would have 2 chances to kill the new mage tomorrow, 1 by zerk, 1 by night kill. A better math person would need to work on the odds on that but it would be more than 5% differance.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:18 am

kraegor

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:21 am

Code: Select all

  Austin acc Grundbegriff(1)
Genghis acc Kraegor(1)
Grundbegriff acc Genghis(1)
pr0ner acc Grundbegriff(2)
  Austin wd Grundbegriff(1)
Kraegor acc Genghis(2)-
  Remus West acc Kraegor(2)
  Remus West wd Kraegor(1)
Remus West acc Kraegor(2)
Austin acc Grundbegriff(2)-
Lassr acc Kraegor(3)-

Against Grundbegriff(2): pr0ner, Austin
Against Kraegor(3): Genghis, Remus West, Lassr
Against Genghis(2): Grundbegriff, Kraegor

Votes required for lynchification: 5

No vote registered:
Newcastle

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:22 am

Lassr wrote:kraegor

Where's that bunny rabbit picture?

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:24 am

Lassr wrote: If only one is a vampire then that one should not be voting for Genghis but voting for the other innocent kine that is identified as a vampire.

that may not make sense. If you are the loan vampire what justification would you use to vote for the other mentioned vampire when you are trying to prove Genghis is a vampire....

You'd have to jump on the vote late as the killing vote for the win. Wouldn't do it early.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:30 am

Lassr wrote: All the vampires need is an innocent killed today and they win. If Grund and kraegor are innocent then we are dealing with 3 stupid vampires! As only 2 would have to jump on board the Genghis vote.

.

correction: majority is 5 so all 3 would pile on the Genghis vote.

SO it's seems obvious that at least one is a vampire.

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:33 am

Lassr wrote:
Lassr wrote: If only one is a vampire then that one should not be voting for Genghis but voting for the other innocent kine that is identified as a vampire.
that may not make sense. If you are the loan vampire what justification would you use to vote for the other mentioned vampire when you are trying to prove Genghis is a vampire....

You'd have to jump on the vote late as the killing vote for the win. Wouldn't do it early.

what about the debtor vampire?

The village still knows nothing. How so? They've bought into Genghis story completely. There's 6 people all going along with Genghis. Yet somehow, I don't have 6 votes.

I'm almost inclined to think there's 3 vamps votin for me right now, except for the nagging suspicion of Austin as a vamp, because of his supposed belief in Genghis yet votes for the non-zerk.

Genghis · Post by **Genghis** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:34 am

I thought I should mention one last thing before heading to bed. I had not mentioned it yet because I thought it was obvious. Yesterady the only thing i knew with 100% certainty was that Kraegor was a vamp. I had scanned Austin on night 1, but that was the same night as a likely conversion. So while I trusted him a little, I could not trust him 100%.

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:36 am

course now that I think on it.

6 villagers. 3 vamps.

the Mage identifies 3 other players all innocent.

which leaves exactly 2 villagers untouched. the 2 votes they need to win this game.

perhaps Austin is innocent.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:36 am

Lassr wrote:
Lassr wrote: All the vampires need is an innocent killed today and they win. If Grund and kraegor are innocent then we are dealing with 3 stupid vampires! As only 2 would have to jump on board the Genghis vote.

.
correction: majority is 5 so all 3 would pile on the Genghis vote.

shit: but if Genghis is a vamp he's not going to vote for himself. I need to think this stuff through before I start typing...

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:36 am

Genghis wrote:I thought I should mention one last thing before heading to bed. I had not mentioned it yet because I thought it was obvious. Yesterady the only thing i knew with 100% certainty was that Kraegor was a vamp. I had scanned Austin on night 1, but that was the same night as a likely conversion. So while I trusted him a little, I could not trust him 100%.

woohoo, and there it is.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:43 am

withdraw kraegor

I'll get back to this mess tomorrow morning.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:31 am

you see i am tryin to figure out the trap here...if there is one.

.
now if genghis lies about kraeggor...game over for us...we go kraeggor...game over. however grund seems to be lurking about...
if he lies bout grund game over for us...
if he is truthful...then we have a strong chance of winning this thing...

However, we have to trust genghis here. Can we?

We do know that if the vamps struck lucky...and were able to get the mage via either unagi or scoop.

now...the flip side...we lynch kraeggor..he goes kaboom, an innocent goes down...however, there is a good chance that either austin or genghis goes kaboom...however, there is also a strong chance that one of the other villagers gets it...that in effect narrows the suspect pool....

we have to assume that tonight...genghis gets nailed or austin...however....the vamps could easily decide to try to take out one of the remaining players...in order to hopefully nab the next mage.
however taking out the unkown innocents....is that it narrows the suspect pool for us....leaving two provens alive..

so therefore the gamble is...do they take out genghis...and narrow the proven down? That i think is the more viable strategy. They can always fake being the new mage. They need to leave as much blurred as possible.

Anyway, I digress....

Let's say for instance that Genghis was lying....would he offer 1 vamp and 1 innocent? Or would he actually offer two vamps? I think he would do his best to keep his partners hidden as much as possible.

Yet...through all this ramblings...i think that Genghis is speaking truthfully. I think grund has been muddying the waters than trying to provide clarity. Kraeggor has been acting guilty.

Another thought...let's say 1 is innocent and 1 is a vamp with Genghis being a vamp....both folks would have to vote for genghis....therefore only 1 vamp vote is on there. however that doesnt make ssense...because if genghis doesnt live...that provides questions...

so it is an either or scenario. Either we trust genghis the whole way, or we dont. I hate doin this...but am gonna scan the whole thread see if anything jumps out at me. I know we could talk this to death...but we have to take a leap of faith with genghis...is he the real deal...or is he not?

Anyway no vote right now.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:41 am

ok i read and scanned the WHOLE FRIGGING thread. I am going to beleive in Genghis here....his play on the whole has been pro-village.

Grund has been muddying the waters. In each of his threat matrixes kraegor is in the innocent column. I think this is significant, because he knew we would go after him at some point. I think he wanted us to hit berserker when we caught up with him.

Kraeggor - acted all the villager part until genghis pegged him..then he kidn of lost it...his tone changes and becomes more hostile...prior to that he was more laid back and seemingly helpful.

I think we need to take a look at Remus. he was been playing the suspicion game and also trying to muddy the waters. that would be my best bet as to whom the 3rd vampire would be.

My theory now on the kills is this....the vamps wanted to leave austin alive as long as possible...because he is a damn good suspect. however, genghis countered that with his scan.

kraegor come out and play!

I basically want to get the zerk out of hte way, and give genghis the best odds at surviving it. Tomorrow we dont have that, we are down 1 less villager. I want that mage power to survive as long as possible so that we can get 1 more scan in. Anyway, thats my thinking right now.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:36 am

Code: Select all

  Austin acc Grundbegriff(1)
Genghis acc Kraegor(1)
Grundbegriff acc Genghis(1)
pr0ner acc Grundbegriff(2)
  Austin wd Grundbegriff(1)
Kraegor acc Genghis(2)-
  Remus West acc Kraegor(2)
  Remus West wd Kraegor(1)
Remus West acc Kraegor(2)
Austin acc Grundbegriff(2)-
  Lassr acc Kraegor(3)
  Lassr wd Kraegor(2)
Newcastle acc Kraegor(3)-

Against Grundbegriff(2): pr0ner, Austin
Against Kraegor(3): Genghis, Remus West, Newcastle
Against Genghis(2): Grundbegriff, Kraegor

Votes required for lynchification: 5

No vote registered:
Lassr

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:16 am

Would the vamps rather have the zerk lynched today or tomorrow if they had the option? (assuming we had two vamps scanned like Genghis is suggesting)

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:22 am

Kraegor wrote:Yeah, I'm laughing too. It's awesome how easy it is to set me up isn't it? At one point no one has me on radar, but all someone has to do is pretend at magehood and poof! dead me.

Aint the first time, won't be da last. This would be the 4th game the situation has arisen. Only one of time was I actually a bad guy. Yet somehow, folks gobble it up.

Yup, Kraegor's evil. Why? Well...he's snarky...erratic....name's hard to spell....doesn't vote often enough...heard he was a commie sympathizer back in 'Nam...

Look at the poor me coming out here too. Taking notes from Grund? At one point no one had you on the radar...? Big whoop! How hard is it to play under the radar as a vampire?

It isn't like it's hard to cover vampire tracks, you just vote as little as possible and give sort of useful info here and there. You really think people are buying Genghis because it's you?

I can't really buy that. People tend to buy an uncontested mage, problem is this time we can't afford the test, but we really can't afford not to believe him either right now.

Hey! I'm at least as abrasive as you in my own way. Why are people believing Genghis? Clearly he should have scanned me as a vamp; except that I'm not. Heh.

Poor, poor Kraegor...

(let the record show I would have rather have had the childer today)

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:24 am

Newcastle is still my top choice for the 3rd at this point.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:36 am

Code: Select all

  Austin acc Grundbegriff(1)
Genghis acc Kraegor(1)
Grundbegriff acc Genghis(1)
pr0ner acc Grundbegriff(2)
  Austin wd Grundbegriff(1)
Kraegor acc Genghis(2)-
  Remus West acc Kraegor(2)
  Remus West wd Kraegor(1)
Remus West acc Kraegor(2)
  Austin acc Grundbegriff(2)
  Lassr acc Kraegor(3)
  Lassr wd Kraegor(2)
Newcastle acc Kraegor(3)
  Austin wd Grundbegriff(1)-
Austin acc Kraegor(4)-

Against Grundbegriff(1): pr0ner
Against Kraegor(4): Genghis, Remus West, Newcastle, Austin
Against Genghis(2): Grundbegriff, Kraegor

Votes required for lynchification: 5

No vote registered:
Lassr

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:39 am

Code: Select all

  Austin acc Grundbegriff(1)
  Austin wd Grundbegriff(1)
  Austin acc Grundbegriff(2)
  Austin wd Grundbegriff(1)-
Austin acc Kraegor(4)-

Genghis acc Kraegor(1)

Grundbegriff acc Genghis(1)

Kraegor acc Genghis(2)-

  Lassr acc Kraegor(3)
  Lassr wd Kraegor(2)

Newcastle acc Kraegor(3)

pr0ner acc Grundbegriff(2)

  Remus West acc Kraegor(2)
  Remus West wd Kraegor(1)
Remus West acc Kraegor(2)

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:41 am

Wait.

withdraw Kaegor for a minute.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:45 am

Genghis wrote:I thought I should mention one last thing before heading to bed. I had not mentioned it yet because I thought it was obvious. Yesterady the only thing i knew with 100% certainty was that Kraegor was a vamp. I had scanned Austin on night 1, but that was the same night as a likely conversion. So while I trusted him a little, I could not trust him 100%.

Never mind. resume Kraegor vote.

See I was typing up a post with scenarios. Kraegor = vampire does not mean GEnghis = confirmed mage.

Next I started typing Genghis' death = me confirmed. Then I recalled I was the first night scan and started to retract, before once again reversing because, 'oh yeah' Grund is the childer.

Then I recalled the post above by Genghis and was going to go all wtf doesn't he trust me if he scanned Grund. But the reread shows he was talking about yesterday. (prior to the childer scan)

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:47 am

What if we could lynch the zerk last. Would it wind up in a tie?

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:52 am

Against Grundbegriff(1): pr0ner
Against Kraegor(4): Genghis, Remus West, Newcastle, Austin
Against Genghis(2): Grundbegriff, Kraegor

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:06 am

leap of faith...
Trust Genghis or don't trust Genghis. It comes down to that.

If Genghis is a vampire then I have to give him and the other vamps credit they played a very good game. Grund's play has seemed vampish to me for a while, if he's not a vampire then shame on him for misleading me.

kraegor's play since the outing has seemed vampish.

Austin's quick acceptance and flip flop on the voting troubles me but not as much as kraegor and Grund's play so...

I leap...

kraegor

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:10 am

Against Grundbegriff(1): pr0ner
Against Kraegor(5): Genghis, Remus West, Newcastle, Austin , lassr
Against Genghis(2): Grundbegriff, Kraegor

VOTING IS CLOSED