World of Darkness-Kine Strikes Back-Game Over-Kindred Win

[Austin]

We lost losing you and Unagi so early.

Agreed, I learned alot from this game.

Also, I was kind of enjoyable reading everyone trying to figure out why I died and all that stuff.

Also, to clear up my last comment, I was not trying to leave a clue about protecting triggercut BUT I was trying to leave a veiled clue that I had a great risk to die that night from either protecting a vamp or getting sucked myself. I'm not so good with the clues. Being a special is hard.

Being a special can be a tightrope for sure. You need to avoid lynching yet play so that the baddies think you are no threat.

[Remus West]

It wasn't vampires that killed this village.

It was natural selection.

Your problem was fixation on Grund being the protected. You made the right call but for all the wrong reasons thus it was not hard to sell the holes in your reasoning.

After day 1 when I basically led the charge against poor Chaosraven you guys all came out firing at Grundbegriff and never even brought it up. Grund tried to bring up that I had led the charge. I had even backed down at the end and still you all let it slide. The early idea was to have Grund out me as a Vamp and buy some village confidence that way.

Scoop, your Priest play was much the way I get when I have the ability to prove myself. You relax regarding the lynching so much that it shows through in your posts. For me, I get downright beligerent when I do not have to worry about being lynched.

I'm curious what Unagi's scans were. tru1cy, are you going to provide a night by night run down of the action?

[Remus West]

BTW, I meant what I said about Genghis playing a great game. I was worried last night that I over-worried about things and went the wrong direction particularly after a PM from Grund telling me to STFU, but Genghis' play had already cemented it for us judging from the outcome and the folks comments.

[triggercut]

Also, to clear up my last comment, I was not trying to leave a clue about protecting triggercut BUT I was trying to leave a veiled clue that I had a great risk to die that night from either protecting a vamp or getting sucked myself. I'm not so good with the clues. Being a special is hard.

I thought it was a very good clue, and I did indeed pick up on it as:

1. proof that you were the priest, and
2. you were making a high risk play with potentially high reward.

Call me Cassandra.

[triggercut]

It wasn't vampires that killed this village.

It was natural selection.

Your problem was fixation on Grund being the protected. You made the right call but for all the wrong reasons thus it was not hard to sell the holes in your reasoning.

After day 1 when I basically led the charge against poor Chaosraven you guys all came out firing at Grundbegriff and never even brought it up. Grund tried to bring up that I had led the charge. I had even backed down at the end and still you all let it slide. The early idea was to have Grund out me as a Vamp and buy some village confidence that way.

Scoop, your Priest play was much the way I get when I have the ability to prove myself. You relax regarding the lynching so much that it shows through in your posts. For me, I get downright beligerent when I do not have to worry about being lynched.

I'm curious what Unagi's scans were. tru1cy, are you going to provide a night by night run down of the action?

Actually, I had rather picked up on you as the vampire that Scoop protected. Grund I had fixated on for other reasons, same with Genghis.

Newcastle was the only person who threw me. I had it down to you four, but was leaning towards Newc over Genghis as the last Brujah.

[Scoop20906]

Scoop, your Priest play was much the way I get when I have the ability to prove myself. You relax regarding the lynching so much that it shows through in your posts. For me, I get downright beligerent when I do not have to worry about being lynched.

Thanks for the feedback, Remus. In hindsight I see MULTIPLE mistakes I made in my responses to Grund and you. Grund played me like a violin at times. But, I'm on to him now. I still haven't got a handle on you yet, Remus. You had me convinced and now looking back I can't figure out why I believe it.[/quote]

[Lassr]

BTW, I meant what I said about Genghis playing a great game. I was worried last night that I over-worried about things and went the wrong direction particularly after a PM from Grund telling me to STFU, but Genghis' play had already cemented it for us judging from the outcome and the folks comments.

I was leaning toward you being the third vamp. At first I though it was Newcastle but his posts seemed human and you started looking guilty. What the hell was that far fetched ideal crap? But I wasn't going to worry with it until we got to the point where we were looking for #3.

[triggercut]

Against triggercut(4): Remus West, Genghis, Newcastle , Grund
Against Grundbegriff(4): Lassr, pr0ner, Unagi, triggercut

Votes required for lynching: 6

No vote registered: Austin, Kraegor

There it is, btw.

[Lassr]

Also, to clear up my last comment, I was not trying to leave a clue about protecting triggercut BUT I was trying to leave a veiled clue that I had a great risk to die that night from either protecting a vamp or getting sucked myself. I'm not so good with the clues. Being a special is hard.

I thought it was a very good clue, and I did indeed pick up on it as:

1. proof that you were the priest, and
2. you were making a high risk play with potentially high reward.

Call me Cassandra.

I agree, but we didn't know who he was protecting. All the what we thought were clues pointed in the wrong direction.

[tru1cy]

Turn breakdown:

Night 1:

Mage Scan: Lassr (not sure on this one as I deleted my PM folder by mistake}

Priest: Didnot protect

Vampire: Sire Grundbegriff

Night 2:

Mage Scan: Triggercut

Priest: Protect Remus West

Vampire kill: Unagi (blocked due to priest protecting a vamp)

Night 3:

Mage Scan: Austin

Priest: Dead

Vampires Kill: Unagi

Night 4:

Mage: Dead

Priest: Dead

Vampires kill: pr0ner

[Remus West]

BTW, I meant what I said about Genghis playing a great game. I was worried last night that I over-worried about things and went the wrong direction particularly after a PM from Grund telling me to STFU, but Genghis' play had already cemented it for us judging from the outcome and the folks comments.

I was leaning toward you being the third vamp. At first I though it was Newcastle but his posts seemed human and you started looking guilty. What the hell was that far fetched ideal crap? But I wasn't going to worry with it until we got to the point where we were looking for #3.

My initial thinking, which makes no sense to me now, was that people already figured me for a Vampire so I would remove doubt then "waver in my thinking" over to voting for Genghis. I figured nobody would follow me there. Had I left well enough alone I could have played it off as being Newcastle from what folks read. I just could not believe folks thought 2 Vampires would try to sell the CR as Mage thing together when it went over so poorly. Particularly not Grund and Newcastle, they are to smart to get linked that openly. Anyway, it was an astoundingly poor play on my part and I worried that I had blown a game we had all but sewn up.

[Genghis]

BTW, I meant what I said about Genghis playing a great game. I was worried last night that I over-worried about things and went the wrong direction particularly after a PM from Grund telling me to STFU, but Genghis' play had already cemented it for us judging from the outcome and the folks comments.

I was leaning toward you being the third vamp. At first I though it was Newcastle but his posts seemed human and you started looking guilty. What the hell was that far fetched ideal crap? But I wasn't going to worry with it until we got to the point where we were looking for #3.

My initial thinking, which makes no sense to me now, was that people already figured me for a Vampire so I would remove doubt then "waver in my thinking" over to voting for Genghis. I figured nobody would follow me there. Had I left well enough alone I could have played it off as being Newcastle from what folks read. I just could not believe folks thought 2 Vampires would try to sell the CR as Mage thing together when it went over so poorly. Particularly not Grund and Newcastle, they are to smart to get linked that openly. Anyway, it was an astoundingly poor play on my part and I worried that I had blown a game we had all but sewn up.

I winced when you brought up the unagi mage angle. I wanted that dead and buried.

[Remus West]

Just thinking about something here but given our target night #2 Scoop protecting me could have given the village the game. Without that we would have killed Unagi and had the Mage out of the way. Had Unagi come forward during Day 2 and announced his 2 scans we would have had a large hole to crawl out of. triggercut would not have been killed. We would have had a block of 3 facing us with the Mage power jumping to someone else forcing us to start over on our hunt for the scanner.

[Kraegor]

Yeah I was working hard to discredit Genghis with anything I could find. I couldn't find anything so I had to trust him. Still the push for lynching Kraegor just seemed off. Then Kraegor went into poor me mode and it snapped me over to a WTF, might as well do this now vote.

Ask Remus what my weakness is in these games. It worked on me two days straight. Get me bored and I'll screw up every time.

poor me mode? /shrug. The entire premise of how it was obvious I would die was the ease with which everyone chose to focus on "well once we kill the one vamp we should kill the other". There was very little doubt of Genghis. As I said I saw 6 people in support of Genghis. I could throw up whatever argument I could think of but it wouldn't matter, Genghis posted very little in the game to give up his role. Remus and Grund were more obvious vamps than Genghis prior to the last day. The only evidence I had against Genghis was the obvious stuff that no one was listening to. I was certain 1 vamp was in the 3 scans, but I was focused on Austin being that vamp...cuz you were Genghis' lapdog... when I began to lose confidence in you being a vamp...I did not focus on Grund.

I was going to post my suspicion of Remus this morning due to his penchant for posting long supporting posts of a lynch and then his nice reluctant "oh but I'm not sure" bolded votes with attendant retractions. too much melodrama.

Never suspected Grund, likely because of how he ended up on the hotseat, I should have cross-analyzed Unagi better...

[Lassr]

Austin, I guess I get to send you that Christmas card after all. Let me know your address.

[Unagi]

Sorry, I had a nice post to share with some of my thoughts - all composed up, but it's at home.


My first night Scan was on Lassr. (Seemed like my best bet... someone that would probably live for a while, but also not the most quiet or the most talkative...)

My second night Scan (and OH, how I struggled) was on Triggercut.

When Triggercut actually started to see things the way I was seeing, I felt this scan became less potent (and perhaps even a bit of a liability).

This is what lead me to not doing a Brain Dump before Night 2.

I also had planned to reveal myself if Triggercut got to 5 votes, but Kraegor and Austin moved him from 4 to 6 votes before I came back to the thread.

Transfering the power, since I believed the Priest dead, became a totally silly option - and the fact that Remus supported that as an option made me totally peg him as a Vampire, as I went into Night 2.

I was torn between Genghis and Austin as vampire #3. (also, I was still thinking Newcastle could be a replacement for Remus / Genghis / Austin.)

Anyhow, my last scan was to be on Austin...

[Kraegor]

My goal was to focus everyone on "today". Killing Genghis would accomplish it, was how I viewed it. The Occam's Razor thing was a neat point. Why did no one listen to it?

But with Remus posting all the "down the road stuff" ...Lassr picks up on it.....Newcastle picks up on it...Austin already on board and picks up on it....pr0ner was already on board... Running uphill....buying into that....killing me was an easy choice. Getting everyone to analyze "what else" really helped sell Genghis as a mage.

[Austin]

Yeah I was working hard to discredit Genghis with anything I could find. I couldn't find anything so I had to trust him. Still the push for lynching Kraegor just seemed off. Then Kraegor went into poor me mode and it snapped me over to a WTF, might as well do this now vote.

Ask Remus what my weakness is in these games. It worked on me two days straight. Get me bored and I'll screw up every time.

poor me mode? /shrug. The entire premise of how it was obvious I would die was the ease with which everyone chose to focus on "well once we kill the one vamp we should kill the other". There was very little doubt of Genghis. As I said I saw 6 people in support of Genghis. I could throw up whatever argument I could think of but it wouldn't matter, Genghis posted very little in the game to give up his role. Remus and Grund were more obvious vamps than Genghis prior to the last day. The only evidence I had against Genghis was the obvious stuff that no one was listening to. I was certain 1 vamp was in the 3 scans, but I was focused on Austin being that vamp...cuz you were Genghis' lapdog... when I began to lose confidence in you being a vamp...I did not focus on Grund.

I was going to post my suspicion of Remus this morning due to his penchant for posting long supporting posts of a lynch and then his nice reluctant "oh but I'm not sure" bolded votes with attendant retractions. too much melodrama.

Never suspected Grund, likely because of how he ended up on the hotseat, I should have cross-analyzed Unagi better...

See you had the knowledge that Genghis was a vampire. I had someone confirming who I was. In the end I was compelled to go with Genghis but I still would have rather had Grund. (on Day 2 as well) He was ignoring my challenges and nobody else was interested in pressing him on my challenges as I was a suspect also. I wanted to place some mage hiding in plain site for the vamps so they'd kill me at night but I couldn't seem to get there.

[Remus West]

Transfering the power, since I believed the Priest dead, became a totally silly option - and the fact that Remus supported that as an option made me totally peg him as a Vampire, as I went into Night 2.

I do not remember supporting the idea of the Mage transfering the power BEFORE coming out. After coming out you would have had to tranfer. We could not interupt it so while it would have cost you a day of scans it would have saved triggercut so the balance would have been the same.

[Unagi]

I just could not believe folks thought 2 Vampires would try to sell the CR as Mage thing together when it went over so poorly. Particularly not Grund and Newcastle, they are to smart to get linked that openly.

The Newcastle - Grund link, based upon the CR=Mage deal was the one thing that troubled me constantly. It was so horrible, while on one hand I couldn't ignore it - it made no sense to play it so obviously... But then, of course, as I always do - I think "Unless that's the whole point, no one would think they would play like that!!"

[Remus West]

I wanted to place some mage hiding in plain site for the vamps so they'd kill me at night but I couldn't seem to get there.

We debated you for a little while but decided you wavered to much on Grund day 2 to have been the Mage.

[Remus West]

I just could not believe folks thought 2 Vampires would try to sell the CR as Mage thing together when it went over so poorly. Particularly not Grund and Newcastle, they are to smart to get linked that openly.

The Newcastle - Grund link, based upon the CR=Mage deal was the one thing that troubled me constantly. It was so horrible, while on one hand I couldn't ignore it - it made no sense to play it so obviously... But then, of course, as I always do - I think "Unless that's the whole point, no one would think they would play like that!!"

Be interesting to see the game when the bad guys try this since I do not think anyone ever has to this point. Maybe to much paranoia.

[Grundbegriff]

we didn't know who he was protecting. All the what we thought were clues pointed in the wrong direction.

I tried to tell you that Scoop hadn't protected me.

I also tried to tell you that Remus was a Vampire.

I also tried to tell you that Genghis was a Vampire.

Why don't you people ever listen to me?

[Kraegor]

we didn't know who he was protecting. All the what we thought were clues pointed in the wrong direction.

I tried to tell you that Scoop hadn't protected me.

I also tried to tell you that Remus was a Vampire.

I also tried to tell you that Genghis was a Vampire.

Why don't you people ever listen to me?

Very slick play. You were fully on my radar until the last day. Genghis cleared you: irony.

And the triggercut debacle was enormous. I allowed my memories of when triggercut was a bad guy to cloud my judgement. didn't want trigger to get away with another sly game..... think of the box...not other boxes....

Of course Grund is the better uncertain lynch....hell up to that point your biggest analysis was on Chaos and it was crap....kill grund...

[Austin]

I want a rematch; same roles.

[Grundbegriff]

I want a rematch; same roles.

[Kraegor]

I want a rematch; same roles.

Does everyone get the same roles as well?

[Lassr]

are we burned out. Would anyone like me to try and start another Battlestar Galactica game?

May need to adjust the roles since we don't seem to have 15 active players these days.

[tru1cy]

are we burned out. Would anyone like me to try and start another Battlestar Galactica game?

May need to adjust the roles since we don't seem to have 15 active players these days.

I'll play for sure Almost had that game till I screwed up in the end

[Austin]

I want a rematch; same roles.

Does everyone get the same roles as well?

Yes. Maybe we'll win this round.

[Chaosraven]

The messed up part was that I *WAS* putting little clues in to be either the Priest or the Mage... and very specifically aimed at Grund. Because he was the only one I had right.

Guess my little bit with Austin about why I trusted him (or suddenly didn't) and the What Am I NOT Saying thing fell by the wayside as Mr Spinbegriff used it for his own nefarious purposes.

And I have a friend who joined OO just to play in these games.

[Austin]

are we burned out. Would anyone like me to try and start another Battlestar Galactica game?

May need to adjust the roles since we don't seem to have 15 active players these days.

I had 2 or 3 responses from people at GT who received my PM after the game had started. They responded along the lines of, 'missed it, maybe next time.'

[Austin]

The messed up part was that I *WAS* putting little clues in to be either the Priest or the Mage... and very specifically aimed at Grund. Because he was the only one I had right.

Guess my little bit with Austin about why I trusted him (or suddenly didn't) and the What Am I NOT Saying thing fell by the wayside as Mr Spinbegriff used it for his own nefarious purposes.

And I have a friend who joined OO just to play in these games.

Actually I have a RL friend who seemed interested when I was discussing these with him. I'm not sure this would be the best game to link him to as an example but I'll link him to a game.

[Chaosraven]

For whatever game gets going you can add Chaosraven and RevHempus71 to the roster of signup.

(and Bakhtosh thought it was hard to lynch me on the first day... sheesh. 7 Votes and only ONE Bad Guy among them...)

[Chaosraven]

The messed up part was that I *WAS* putting little clues in to be either the Priest or the Mage... and very specifically aimed at Grund. Because he was the only one I had right.

Guess my little bit with Austin about why I trusted him (or suddenly didn't) and the What Am I NOT Saying thing fell by the wayside as Mr Spinbegriff used it for his own nefarious purposes.

And I have a friend who joined OO just to play in these games.

Actually I have a RL friend who seemed interested when I was discussing these with him. I'm not sure this would be the best game to link him to as an example but I'll link him to a game.

I suggest he read some of the Fewer Page games in this forum, and start by keeping himself a list of who he suspects and why as EACH role until the end.

[Unagi]

Transfering the power, since I believed the Priest dead, became a totally silly option - and the fact that Remus supported that as an option made me totally peg him as a Vampire, as I went into Night 2.

I do not remember supporting the idea of the Mage transfering the power BEFORE coming out. After coming out you would have had to tranfer. We could not interupt it so while it would have cost you a day of scans it would have saved triggercut so the balance would have been the same.

I'm not talking about coming out as the mage, just about the transfer itself here. I felt that the 2 day delay before 'scans' resumed' would be the same as just dieing.


In my head, I imagined this 'best case' scenario:

Day 2 - I come out / or I don't come out.
Night 2 - I transfer (and survive to Brain Dump, if I didn't come out on Day 2)

Day 3 - Some Random gets the power
Day 3 - If I am alive I tell people that they have a new Mage, but the first two scans are Lassr and Triggercut.
Night 3 - Some Random gets to scan Player X

Day 4 - Some Random tries to convince a now VERY depleted Kine base that he was transfered the mage power...

Without our 'Priest', and when I knew they still had their Zerker - I didn't see Day 4 as being a day where someone would have a body of people to even convince.

It was this line from this post:

frankly, I wasn't worried about outing the Mage anyway due to the power transfer so I put my vote there and plan on leaving it there.

This was while you were demanding that triggercut was working with inside knowledge (another thing you kept insisting meant someone was a Mage or Vampire). I had to bite my tounge a lot in this game - but I thought you were coming across very much as someone yelling "MAGE!!!" not yelling "VAMPIRE!!!".
People do often act on 'convictions' or 'ideas' not 'inside knowledge', and I wanted to say that - but I was trying not to keep focusing on the word 'Mage'.

[Chaosraven]

Actually, this was well played by the Bad Guys so it does make for a good example.

But the whole Hindsight 20/20 thing warps peoples perceptions, which is why I sent my list to tru1cy but did not ask for full explanation. When his response was that I got one right I just had to know.

For people learning the nuances, reading the old games as if they were playing as another innocent and examining why they suspect people is good practice.

[Genghis]

For whatever game gets going you can add Chaosraven and RevHempus71 to the roster of signup.

(and Bakhtosh thought it was hard to lynch me on the first day... sheesh. 7 Votes and only ONE Bad Guy among them...)

Yeah, I tried to distance myself from both Grund and Remus. Which is rather difficult when they are accusing opposite sides. I had to pick random targets for my accusations. Pr0ner was going to be my fall guy instead of Kraegor except one post I made along the way contradicted that.

[Scoop20906]

are we burned out. Would anyone like me to try and start another Battlestar Galactica game?

May need to adjust the roles since we don't seem to have 15 active players these days.

I'm in Lassr!!

[tru1cy]

Btw, is this the first game the Grund actually survived til the end?