Battlestar Galactica II - Day 4 - Humans win.

[Austin]

My thoughts on the Blatar role: He is the only player really out for himself. The Cylons will sacrifice themselves or each other if needed to cut into the Humans and win. The Humans will sacrifice the same way to cut the numbers of Cylons. Baltar is just trying to survive. If he knows who 6 is but it looks like the Cylons are going to lose then he will not hook up. If he thinks the Humans will lose then he will try and find 6 ASAP to be sure his own life is spared.

Right. To clarify though, had I been Scooped up I would have played for the cylons to the best of my abilities.

[stessier]

Second, kudos to stessier. I think you played very well indeed (though you dragged out the Helo shot a bit on account of pr0ner), and you are now officially on my People To Worry About list for these games.

Thanks, that means a lot.

From what everyone else has said, it would be fun to see you in action. Sadly, from what everyone else has said, you are still on my Kill On The First Day list.

[Remus West]

Question about the Athena paradox (and this should not be viewed as critical of Unagi in any way, I'm just trying to learn as a first timer): wouldn't it always be better for 12 to challenge and offer up 2 humans? 12 knows who the cylons are so can be sure of his picks. And the chances of finding a cylon on the first two nights are 3/14 (night 1) and 3/12 (night 2). Those are pretty low odds, so it would be pretty believable for him to claim not wanting to come forward with such paltry proof.

In that case, wouldn't we have to test both their claims before taking an Athena out?

And I only thought about this this morning after it was too late, but can't Helo challenge and role just to see how people react? Had I thought of it, couldn't I have claimed Apollo after Triggercut with a completely bogus role for Grund just to see what Unagi and Scoops reactions were? Since I was going to shoot anyway, all I'd have to do is make sure not to get myself lynched before outing myself. Otherwise, that would be embarrassing.

From talking to Unagi, he figured Scoop was a likely scan target so offering up Chaosraven's scan BEFORE CR did would make it look very much like CR was lying. With no way for Athena to be proven aside from Apollo it makes things look very bad for the ship then.

[Grundbegriff]

I propose that we goad Lassr into a Third Round of BG, with as many of the same participants as care to go again, to be played immediately after Larswolf 5 (or whichever iteration we're on).

[Lassr]

My thoughts on the Blatar role: He is the only player really out for himself. The Cylons will sacrifice themselves or each other if needed to cut into the Humans and win. The Humans will sacrifice the same way to cut the numbers of Cylons. Baltar is just trying to survive. If he knows who 6 is but it looks like the Cylons are going to lose then he will not hook up. If he thinks the Humans will lose then he will try and find 6 ASAP to be sure his own life is spared.

Bingo! Just like in the show. And I hope when I do BSG III in the future that will continue to play out this way.

[Lassr]

I propose that we goad Lassr into a Third Round of BG, with as many of the same participants as care to go again, to be played immediately after Larswolf 5 (or whichever iteration we're on).

I'm good with that. I love doing the BSG game just as much as I love playing the other WW games. I'll start working on another back story now just to keep it a little fresh. Same roles just a different story happening.

[RevHempus71]

You do another one Lassr and I am IN for sure. It was a great game.

[Kraegor]

Trig, sorry I didn't come out against you more strongly but I couldn't "mentally" come up with a way to do it since I had been after chaos for so long. My fault.

Don't feel bad Scoop... the only people in this Game who were 100% of someone other than themselves were #12 knowing you guys, and you guys knowing each other. It's why the Lynch didn't go through on you after your "slip"

Because Hunches and Deductions are exactly that.
Hell, if I were smarter, I would have thought to ask Lassr if #12 knows which Cylon is which before I started wasting Pixels on who must be who.

heh yeah I asked the question on night 3 when trying to understand Unagi's choice to out scoop

before I submit my musings...one question: Does 12 know the specific roles of the 2 cylons or was he simply told "blah and bleh are cylon"?

as a note: should you post this question in the thread it will likely out starbuck as alive.

course the outcome of the answer which was "12 knows the roles" was that scoop must be human.....no else bought it so apparently it worked out for the best

[Kraegor]

Kraegor's vehemence was a little hard for me to understand. I just chalked it up to a) not knowing him, and b) taking the final outcome too seriously. Who knew he was Starbuck and just roleplaying!

heh, the quandary that is presents is which is more important...the tone? or the message?

[Kraegor]

Why? Because my cunning Plan worked Perfectly?



[snoopy]
Happy Dance
[/snoopy]

and wtf....I almost thought Lassr sent you my PM

-----------------------------------
From: Kraegor
To: Lassr
Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:19 pm
Subject: Re: Night 3: Everything Goes to hell
oh hell yeah! <doin the happy dance> <doin the happy dance>

Lassr wrote:
Starbuck protects herself.
The day was very confusing. You feel you must protect someone from any remaining Cylons. Chaosraven seems to have helped the village but states that he is a Cylon also. You could never trust a Cylon, so you sit in your room with your trusty sidearm until morning. At 0200 you hear a noise outside your door. You draw your firearm and investigate. You sweep the surrounding area but find nothing. You gt back inside and remain alert until time for the morning meeting.

[Newcastle]

fun read guys. And congrats on the humans on winning. Well done! I was way off base on my suspicions, and when i read the spoilers i had gotten from lassr I had a doh moment.

Triggercut and UNagi - i totally took you guys off my radar because you both backed off remus on that first bandwagon.

Anyway good game all. And in case anyone was wondering, I was trying to play target there. I had nothing to offer for teh ship, except for my life really. So the best I thouhgt I could do was present an easy lynch or night kill target. Of course you would be without my oh so important contributions (which obviously prevented me from being lynched ). And also I wanted to vary my style a bit. Was kind of fun being a spastic voter and having no rhyme or reason to plop a vote on someone. though was fun watching CR become uncomfortable when i kept on coming back to him.

[Unagi]

Fourth, a note on Baltar....

Since it would not be much fun to play Baltar that way, this proves that under these rules it is never the case that Baltar plays with undivided loyalty for the Goodguys. It's not possible to play Baltar the way Chaosraven prescribes without Doing The Right Thing and Kelricking.

Thank you, that is basically just how I saw it too.

This is a guy that wants to defect, he is trying each night to defect.

[Unagi]

This is why I said I played for the humans but with a slant toward self preservation. I thought about revealing myself a couple times but it didn't seem like the right move. That and I might have been picked up by 6. I was not actively trying to be found, nor was I trying to find 6. (Unless Chaos wound up being 6 on my third scan)

I still wish I could have taken Unagi's blast. I had PM'd Lassr wondering if I'd have time to slip up (and claim Starbuck) prior to him going off.

Boooooooooooo

I protest this way to play Baltar. Baltar isn't afraid of finding Six. He WANTS to find Six.

[Unagi]

My thoughts on the Blatar role: He is the only player really out for himself. The Cylons will sacrifice themselves or each other if needed to cut into the Humans and win. The Humans will sacrifice the same way to cut the numbers of Cylons. Baltar is just trying to survive. If he knows who 6 is but it looks like the Cylons are going to lose then he will not hook up. If he thinks the Humans will lose then he will try and find 6 ASAP to be sure his own life is spared.

This implies there are days upon days to have different ways to approach things and that people actually can find 6 or Balter 'when they want to'.

I am pretty sure (haven't had time to read the Cylon board yet) that the cylons were looking for Baltar to join the ranks. They were not willing to just kill him (Scan First!), but also tried to be sure not to lynch someone they thought was being Baltary.

If Baltar would simply just admit he is a Cylon wanna-be (or wanna-do ) then it would all click... This isn't like an innocent Sired Vampire. This is someone looking for a Cylon to join up with.

[triggercut]

fun read guys. And congrats on the humans on winning. Well done! I was way off base on my suspicions, and when i read the spoilers i had gotten from lassr I had a doh moment.

Triggercut and UNagi - i totally took you guys off my radar because you both backed off remus on that first bandwagon.

Anyway good game all. And in case anyone was wondering, I was trying to play target there. I had nothing to offer for teh ship, except for my life really. So the best I thouhgt I could do was present an easy lynch or night kill target. Of course you would be without my oh so important contributions (which obviously prevented me from being lynched ). And also I wanted to vary my style a bit. Was kind of fun being a spastic voter and having no rhyme or reason to plop a vote on someone. though was fun watching CR become uncomfortable when i kept on coming back to him.

I totally thought you were Baltar!

[Newcastle]

fun read guys. And congrats on the humans on winning. Well done! I was way off base on my suspicions, and when i read the spoilers i had gotten from lassr I had a doh moment.

Triggercut and UNagi - i totally took you guys off my radar because you both backed off remus on that first bandwagon.

Anyway good game all. And in case anyone was wondering, I was trying to play target there. I had nothing to offer for teh ship, except for my life really. So the best I thouhgt I could do was present an easy lynch or night kill target. Of course you would be without my oh so important contributions (which obviously prevented me from being lynched ). And also I wanted to vary my style a bit. Was kind of fun being a spastic voter and having no rhyme or reason to plop a vote on someone. though was fun watching CR become uncomfortable when i kept on coming back to him.

I totally thought you were Baltar!

excellent at least my misdirection helped a bit...well a bit i guess.

/wanders off looking for some food

[Remus West]

My thoughts on the Blatar role: He is the only player really out for himself. The Cylons will sacrifice themselves or each other if needed to cut into the Humans and win. The Humans will sacrifice the same way to cut the numbers of Cylons. Baltar is just trying to survive. If he knows who 6 is but it looks like the Cylons are going to lose then he will not hook up. If he thinks the Humans will lose then he will try and find 6 ASAP to be sure his own life is spared.

This implies there are days upon days to have different ways to approach things and that people actually can find 6 or Balter 'when they want to'.

I am pretty sure (haven't had time to read the Cylon board yet) that the cylons were looking for Baltar to join the ranks. They were not willing to just kill him (Scan First!), but also tried to be sure not to lynch someone they thought was being Baltary.

If Baltar would simply just admit he is a Cylon wanna-be (or wanna-do ) then it would all click... This isn't like an innocent Sired Vampire. This is someone looking for a Cylon to join up with.

He is not looking to join up though. He is looking to survive. Yes, the Cylons are looking to recruit him as they should be. He is more interested in the side that can see him through it alive though. So he can play dodge with his scans if he thinks it better to remain on the human side or seek with them if he thinks it best to become Cylon.

[Austin]

My thoughts on the Blatar role: He is the only player really out for himself. The Cylons will sacrifice themselves or each other if needed to cut into the Humans and win. The Humans will sacrifice the same way to cut the numbers of Cylons. Baltar is just trying to survive. If he knows who 6 is but it looks like the Cylons are going to lose then he will not hook up. If he thinks the Humans will lose then he will try and find 6 ASAP to be sure his own life is spared.

This implies there are days upon days to have different ways to approach things and that people actually can find 6 or Balter 'when they want to'.

I am pretty sure (haven't had time to read the Cylon board yet) that the cylons were looking for Baltar to join the ranks. They were not willing to just kill him (Scan First!), but also tried to be sure not to lynch someone they thought was being Baltary.

If Baltar would simply just admit he is a Cylon wanna-be (or wanna-do ) then it would all click... This isn't like an innocent Sired Vampire. This is someone looking for a Cylon to join up with.

He is not looking to join up though. He is looking to survive. Yes, the Cylons are looking to recruit him as they should be. He is more interested in the side that can see him through it alive though. So he can play dodge with his scans if he thinks it better to remain on the human side or seek with them if he thinks it best to become Cylon.

Or he can just play however Baltar wants to play him. Short of outright screwing either side, IE getting turned and revealing all the cylons on info from 6.

[Newcastle]

actually from the sidelines I thought Austin did pretty good. During CR big reveal, i felt austin was a bit hesitant. Or at least I read into that. And i thought that fit the role of baltar pretty good. I am sure it must have been tough to either advocate one way or another. I am sure it's hard to advocate one way, then when the conversion happens to have to swing a totally different direction.

[Unagi]

I guess it just read to me like Baltar is sincerely trying to find Six. On that final nights where Baltar maybe knows exactly who the best chance of scanning Six is - Baltar would want to find Six and scan that last cylon.

I'm not faulting you for not playing it that way (christ, look at how I played #12!), I just don't feel like Baltar is simply an opportunest or only thinking of himself - I feel like his thoughts are actually only on Six. He's incapable of not wanting to join her.

The style of play you two are describing, he's only interested in finding 6 if that means he will live.

[Lassr]

The style of play you two are describing, he's only interested in finding 6 if that means he will live.

that's the way I intended it to be. He still has to look for Six each turn, hoping for a quickie, but in the end Baltar only cares about himself.

As long as the player doesn't break the spirit of the game by admitting he is Baltar just to give himself up, he can play however he wants. Eventually it may be necessary to admit to one's role as Baltar but as I said never to just give yourself up.

[Unagi]

The style of play you two are describing, he's only interested in finding 6 if that means he will live.

that's the way I intended it to be. He still has to look for Six each turn, hoping for a quickie, but in the end Baltar only cares about himself.

As long as the player doesn't break the spirit of the game by admitting he is Baltar just to give himself up, he can play however he wants. Eventually it may be necessary to admit to one's role as Baltar but as I said never to just give yourself up.

Righty-o, then I concede the point.

[Chaosraven]

Having never watched the show, RevHempus had to explain Baltar to me.

He was seduced and then blackmailed by his own complicity (she used his access etc) and torments him with how involved he is and how he can't out her or him because of it.

He hears her voice in his head all the time.

I guess I can understand Remus POV for how to portray that best.

[Austin]

I guess it just read to me like Baltar is sincerely trying to find Six. On that final nights where Baltar maybe knows exactly who the best chance of scanning Six is - Baltar would want to find Six and scan that last cylon.

I'm not faulting you for not playing it that way (christ, look at how I played #12!), I just don't feel like Baltar is simply an opportunest or only thinking of himself - I feel like his thoughts are actually only on Six. He's incapable of not wanting to join her.

The style of play you two are describing, he's only interested in finding 6 if that means he will live.

You probably watched the series and are putting the Baltar from TV into the game. Many of us have not seen BSG so don't have those glasses on with regard to Baltar.

[Unagi]

You probably watched the series and are putting the Baltar from TV into the game. Many of us have not seen BSG so don't have those glasses on with regard to Baltar.

Nah, I've never seen the show. I could have sworn there was some description of Baltar I read that said he was fixated on finding Six - but I went back and it really never says that (I checked game 1 , but there was nothing there either). I guess I just imagined him to be that way.

It sounds like the Baltar from the show (judging from a few peoples comments on this topic) is actually more like how you guys describe him...

Anyhow, I just thought of him as being a 'baby bad-guy' - just waiting to hatch (and wanting too). Instead he's a nervous cylonophile that really doesn't know what he's getting into. (or something to that effect).

I DO like the idea of a 'human' playing in a strange way and he himself not knowing who the 'bad-guys' are , but actually playing for their side (sorta, because he doesn't even know who's who.) It was an interesting 'game-piece', and I guess I just didn't want to see my idea of that changed.
To that end, it's still a very interesting 'game-piece', I just needed to unwrap my head around my idea and get behind the other concept.

[Chaosraven]

I DO like the idea of a 'human' playing in a strange way and he himself not knowing who the 'bad-guys' are , but actually playing for their side (sorta, because he doesn't even know who's who.) It was an interesting 'game-piece', and I guess I just didn't want to see my idea of that changed.
To that end, it's still a very interesting 'game-piece', I just needed to unwrap my head around my idea and get behind the other concept.

Examine the Sorcerer Role in Lars 5...

[Unagi]

I DO like the idea of a 'human' playing in a strange way and he himself not knowing who the 'bad-guys' are , but actually playing for their side (sorta, because he doesn't even know who's who.) It was an interesting 'game-piece', and I guess I just didn't want to see my idea of that changed.
To that end, it's still a very interesting 'game-piece', I just needed to unwrap my head around my idea and get behind the other concept.

Examine the Sorcerer Role in Lars 5...

Yeah, that's about exactly it. tee hee.

[Lassr]

I'll be deleting the Cylon Forum Friday night. So if you want to read it you've got 2 more days.