WW Meta Discussions

[Remus West]

filling my inbox with spam

[Silky]

The ghost talk in the Lars game had much more meaning if you had the spoilers. For me I couldn't figure out if they were approving or disapproving so I ultimately wound up ignoring them.

[Kraegor]

filling my inbox with spam

You know, octopus spelled backwards is supotco

[Newcastle]

couple things for me:

ghost talk - I always play with spoilers once I am out of the game, so I know what is what. Hence, I always am careful when I place a smiley popcorn. There have been times when I have started to type it in, but then have changed my mind, and waited for a more appropriate time to post it.

I think the last game it was a bit too much; but, I think players can use their own discretion. It is nice to see though when a dead one surfaces and signals they are still reading. When I am playing, i try to ignore any context it might be in. And in fact, I have never thought more of it than "hey I am still reading this" or after a development in game where the players are busy in the heat of things i read it as " wow interesting development".

Night talk - I actually dont mind night talk. I think it's fine for folks to chatter in the evening, of course you run the risk of course of tipping your hand to the other side.

Meta play - revealing or hinting at your role I actually think is a neat dynamic. I think this is a perfectly fine thing to utilize within the game to either hint at what you are or to create confusion. Of course the problem comes in when a huge ass village does a total reveal of what they are.

Absences - i think folks who are gone from the game do in fact hurt the game itself. I have to think of the inicident where bubbles went awol last fall, and we had to call the game a draw. I dont condemn him, because his real life comes first. And also in the last game my absence. I think the village as a whole can moderate this and use their own judicial system ...."hey joe is gone from the game, let's lynch the silent." So far though, I havent encountered a key player being truly absent that screwed up the game. I discount St. Dysan in the last game because the wolves were able to carry his burden, also he did get the good ole lynch the next day. I really think it comes down to self-regulation.

[Lassr]

Meta play - revealing or hinting at your role I actually think is a neat dynamic. I think this is a perfectly fine thing to utilize within the game to either hint at what you are or to create confusion. Of course the problem comes in when a huge ass village does a total reveal of what they are.

.

I have no problem with META play except when you use a real world excuse as part of your META play inside the game. (I'm going to be away so feel free to lynch me since I'm innocent).

Those should be separate posts. One post for any META real life activity, then another post for the fantasy world we are playing in.

(I'm going to be away this weekend so don't take my absence as anything other than I'm gone) That's OK.

Later (Hey if you are undecided then lynch me, I'm innocent and unpowered). That's OK, could be a trick.

But when you add them together, there is a whole other level of trust or trickery that I don't like.

[Grundbegriff]

In the Lars5, I found out behind the scenes in discussion with the Mentalist. I told him "Unpowered Innocent", he prodded for Specific Info of my role, and as I have no abilities, I gave him the "town Innocent". Which apparently he had ALREADY received from his first contact, as he claimed they Matched.

Actually, I told him I was a "town INNOCENT". I didn't anticipate that this would end up being used in a meta way, and was annoyed that things went there. So that counts as a lapse of foresight on my part.

The irony I want to point out is that apparently stessier was wrong; apparently, my phrase and yours as we reported them did not match.

[Grundbegriff]

Ghost Posts:

good, bad, ugly?

"I'm still reading, even though I''m dead" Popcorn

This is a tricky one.

In general, my rule has been that a popcorn binky per gameday from a deader is fine. It shows continued interest, which encourages creativity among the live players who recognize the presence of an audience.

My corollary is that no deader should ever post any actual game-relevant information, nor any information that might be mistaken for relevant by a living player.

As a concrete example: after Bakhtosh blew me away, I think I never posted in the thread-- not even a binkypop-- until after the seance had occurred. I didn't want anyone alive to mistake my binkypop as a request to be seanced, or as commentary of some sort.

Once it was clear that I could no longer be seanced, I ghosted a bit.

emoticons

It seems to me that emoticons other than pop are too risky. I've always avoided the charging equestrian Emoticon, for example, because it seems too eligible to be misconstrued as favorable commentary on something that has just occurred in the game.

Expressing shock, too, informs the living of what the deader finds surprising, and that might affect the game.

Needless to say, crossing this line ought obviously to be a no-no.

any actual text, gamerelated

Sometimes, after I've died, I've posted voting sequences. I've done this only with permission, on the theory that the info is wholly neutral, and I've done it as a service. It's not necessary, and I wouldn't object to that sort of thing. I would understand, though, if someone didn't like it.

I think the Spoiler Forums are good so that dead people have a secret place to discuss the game they have left to be able to refrain from posting inappropriately in the game thread or somewhere nearby where it can be discovered

The only drawback to offsite, temporary forums is archeological/archival-- their contents are lost rather than retained as part of OO.

[Grundbegriff]

Meta play - revealing or hinting at your role I actually think is a neat dynamic. I think this is a perfectly fine thing to utilize within the game to either hint at what you are or to create confusion. Of course the problem comes in when a huge ass village does a total reveal of what they are.

Nothing you mention has anything to do with Meta play.

Just to ensure that you have a chance to comment on the issue: meta is not hinting at your role, and meta is not a mass Kelricking. Meta would be mentioning something distinctive about how the Moderator communicated your role to you so that others who received the same communication from the Moderator will recognize your role.

[stessier]

In the Lars5, I found out behind the scenes in discussion with the Mentalist. I told him "Unpowered Innocent", he prodded for Specific Info of my role, and as I have no abilities, I gave him the "town Innocent". Which apparently he had ALREADY received from his first contact, as he claimed they Matched.

Actually, I told him I was a "town INNOCENT". I didn't anticipate that this would end up being used in a meta way, and was annoyed that things went there. So that counts as a lapse of foresight on my part.

The irony I want to point out is that apparently stessier was wrong; apparently, my phrase and yours as we reported them did not match.

If you mean capitalization, Chaos just forgot to capitalize it above. It was capitalized in his response to me.

I know I done wrong (and won't do it again), but I think I done wrong the right way...er, or something.

But that's neither here nor there for the Meta discussion, so just ignore me.

[Newcastle]

Meta play - revealing or hinting at your role I actually think is a neat dynamic. I think this is a perfectly fine thing to utilize within the game to either hint at what you are or to create confusion. Of course the problem comes in when a huge ass village does a total reveal of what they are.

Nothing you mention has anything to do with Meta play.

Just to ensure that you have a chance to comment on the issue: meta is not hinting at your role, and meta is not a mass Kelricking. Meta would be mentioning something distinctive about how the Moderator communicated your role to you so that others who received the same communication from the Moderator will recognize your role.

well now, i have been educated; my perceptions had been off. Uhm, no comment here..../puts on the dunce cap

[Chaosraven]

In the Lars5, I found out behind the scenes in discussion with the Mentalist. I told him "Unpowered Innocent", he prodded for Specific Info of my role, and as I have no abilities, I gave him the "town Innocent". Which apparently he had ALREADY received from his first contact, as he claimed they Matched.

Actually, I told him I was a "town INNOCENT". I didn't anticipate that this would end up being used in a meta way, and was annoyed that things went there. So that counts as a lapse of foresight on my part.

The irony I want to point out is that apparently stessier was wrong; apparently, my phrase and yours as we reported them did not match.

If you mean capitalization, Chaos just forgot to capitalize it above. It was capitalized in his response to me.

I know I done wrong (and won't do it again), but I think I done wrong the right way...er, or something.

But that's neither here nor there for the Meta discussion, so just ignore me.

Actually it is exactly why we are discussing it.

If I had left my response to you as "Unpowered Innocent" there would have been no connection. You cannot trust me (as you will learn) and making up an Exact Term is something Grund and I are perfectly capable of in the context of being both Bad Guys, which is why I pointed it out to you.

Your "proof" was, as I explained to you, that Grund was already Dead and Human.

The objection in the Game related sense is that ALL players should have had "that information" to use to fake as they see fit. As tru1cy did NOT have the Full Name it furthered your/our suspicion of him and you gave him false information that proved to me you did not trust him.

Although we might assume the "title" contained in the Rules (as Lassr uses) is the Name of the Role, players who are not Innocents did not have equal access from the start for the "Role Card"

Imagine if you will, you are in the middle of your discussion with tru1cy and Lars posts in the thread "the message the Innocents received was 'town INNOCENT'... that is all" and then tru1cy gives you that... obviously that would reflect poorly on him (he just asked the Mod what the text was) and the Mod put it out there for everyone, thereby sealing his fate.

I'd imagine that the admonishment of my use of the Meta was equally damning and also served to prove me Innocent, although I could easily have asked Lars behind the scenes "by the way, If I want to fake being an innocent, what message did they receive? And please don't post it right away as that would look really bad"

Regardless, I think the Copied Text of Innocent PM Notification displayed within the rules will effectively nullify such a thing and I wish I had thought of it when I ran my Fallen Games...

[Grundbegriff]

We should compile a checklist of all the safeguards we've developed over the past year and half to prevent exploits.

• Posting all the moderator's PMs of role assignments into the thread.
• ...

[Chaosraven]

I think most other Ideas get incorporated based on desire.

The 24hr rule, the Vote closed at Majority, Night Talk, Games with Mandatory participation on the Turns, Timing issues based on conflict of abilities