Divine Relics - Stessier has the clap - Day 7

[pr0ner]

The question I have is -



Why does it boil down to "Newcastle OR pr0ner" and not "Newcastle OR pr0ner OR Scoop#"?

Newcastle, pr0ner, what is your reasoning for ignoring Scoop in the voting? Why is he being ignored in this?

My position is: I know I'm pure. I know no one else is verified as pure. And, yet, I see two players at each others' throats and one player standing aside, poking the combatants as they go all out. Why are the two fighting the choices and the bystander has turned invisible?

Understand that I'm not accusing anyone at the moment. I do want to examine ALL the choices before I make the fatal blow. I'm not in the slightest satisfied with ignoring a possible choice simply because everyone else is.

You make a good point.

Withdraw Newcastle

I was stuck on him because he's been at the top of my suspect list for a few days now.

If you can give me reasons to vote for Scoop, I'm more than willing to listen.

[Scoop20906]

The question I have is -



Why does it boil down to "Newcastle OR pr0ner" and not "Newcastle OR pr0ner OR Scoop#"?

Newcastle, pr0ner, what is your reasoning for ignoring Scoop in the voting? Why is he being ignored in this?

My position is: I know I'm pure. I know no one else is verified as pure. And, yet, I see two players at each others' throats and one player standing aside, poking the combatants as they go all out. Why are the two fighting the choices and the bystander has turned invisible?

Understand that I'm not accusing anyone at the moment. I do want to examine ALL the choices before I make the fatal blow. I'm not in the slightest satisfied with ignoring a possible choice simply because everyone else is.

You make a good point.

Withdraw Newcastle

I was stuck on him because he's been at the top of my suspect list for a few days now.

If you can give me reasons to vote for Scoop, I'm more than willing to listen.

This is an example of "Grasping at straws".

[Newcastle]

Zurai - the way I am looking at it is kind of a patchwork or a quilty...lots of little things adding up.

There are a lot of little things that point toward Scoop being innocent (in my mind) and there are things that point to Proner being guilty. My thoughts on scoop have evolved through this game. At first I thought he was guilty as sin, and placed a vote that way. But as the game went through its stages, and especially the last two game days it changed

Why I am more trusting of Scoop -

1. Day 1 meltdown - We know CR and Lassr were on the evil side. Do you think they would have recommended him and encouraged him to go all out and simply spam away? I am sure they would have advocated him to remain calm, it's only a couple of votes...etc. I dont think any demon would react that way. It would draw WAY, WAY too much attention to himself. Why make yourself noticed on day 1?

2. I also think his frustration was genuine at this point. When i went back and read it, it kind of struck a chord...and I actually was feeling bad for the guy. It seemed genuine. This is actually when My thoughts on scoop started to change was during the reread. He also made a post....on Saturday I think, saying if I were evil...would I go nuts...and that also kind of started me thinking.

3. Lassr and his vote - Lassr has made Scoop his reoccuring theme this whole game. He was on him on day 1, and throughout the game. I dont think he would expose his partner like that.

4. I also dont think Lassr would expose his partner to be at 2 votes overnight. He would take a huge risk in exposing his partner in doing that. That would mean 2 innocent priest and yourself, could easily flop on over and send Scoop out of the game.

5. Lassr on his last day kept on pointing a finger at Scoop. Again, I dont think he would highlight his partner like that.

Just a few of the reasons really.

and my vote is staying on proner

[Scoop20906]

As far as Newcastle being Lassr's partner, you just doesn't ring true to me.

For most of the game, I felt he was trying to be helpful to the priests although he did disappear for a VERY long time.

But, he did come back with a VERY long post on why he thought Rev was guilty who turned out to be innocent. This has to be taken into account.

However, I didn't feel his analysis was a smear campaign as Unagi felt but his genuine feeling.

He did vote for Lassr as well. But here at the end of the game he could be just trying to look innocent for one last vote.

However, he just has not set off any alarm bells with me.

[Scoop20906]

Why do I think pr0ner is guilty?

With pr0ner it has been mostly a process of elimination. I know I am innocent. I know Zurai is innocent. I feel Newcastle is innocent.

Therefore pr0ner is Legion.

Please note how he has played the lurker role all game. He would pop in more often then usual of his play as well. We all noticed it and it always seems to mean he isn't a simple priest/villager.

In the last few days he has pretty active and posting but his posts have basically been killing me would be a mistake, I am a priest. No analysis or any type of help to the priests otherwise.

Then he put no vote up on Lassr because he believed Newcastle is a demon. It fits a pattern, he didn't vote for his partner but if we believe him, the Newcastle was willing to put a vote on his brother demon.

Lastly, he voted for Newcastle early today but when you simply asked, why no scoop, he jumped on that quite quickly.

Anything else you want to discuss Zurai?

[pr0ner]

Wow, Scoop. The more and more you attempt to use shoddy, metagame logic to cast me as evil, the more and more I think you're actually the demon, and Lassr's vote on you was a way to get us to look away from you.

Yes, my vote on Newcastle when Lassr was found demon casts me in a bad light. But I explained why I voted Newcastle, and how I missed the Lassr vote by, you know, being busy in real life.

Are you trying to win the game for the demons, Scoop?

I am not evil.

Newcastle, Zurai, I hope you're not going to allow METAGAMING to sway you into voting for me. It would ensure that you lose this game.

[Scoop20906]

Wow, Scoop. The more and more you attempt to use shoddy, metagame logic to cast me as evil, the more and more I think you're actually the demon, and Lassr's vote on you was a way to get us to look away from you.

Yes, my vote on Newcastle when Lassr was found demon casts me in a bad light. But I explained why I voted Newcastle, and how I missed the Lassr vote by, you know, being busy in real life.

Are you trying to win the game for the demons, Scoop?

I am not evil.

Newcastle, Zurai, I hope you're not going to allow METAGAMING to sway you into voting for me. It would ensure that you lose this game.

Truly, I don't know what you are talking about, Pr0ner. What metagaming am I referring to?

Is lurking metagaming?

[pr0ner]

Please note how he has played the lurker role all game. He would pop in more often then usual of his play as well. We all noticed it and it always seems to mean he isn't a simple priest/villager.

Metagame ahoy!

Please take particular note of "we all noticed it and it always seems to mean he isn't a simple priest/villager".

If that isn't using metagame to (incorrectly) prove that I'm a demon, I don't know what is.

[Scoop20906]

Please note how he has played the lurker role all game. He would pop in more often then usual of his play as well. We all noticed it and it always seems to mean he isn't a simple priest/villager.

Metagame ahoy!

Please take particular note of "we all noticed it and it always seems to mean he isn't a simple priest/villager".

If that isn't using metagame to (incorrectly) prove that I'm a demon, I don't know what is.

Well, its possible I dont understand the term I think the logic is correct. When looking at your past performances in games, you seems a more active than in the past games and it usually meant either a) you were a special, or b) you were a bad guy.

I even remember a game where the whole game I think you had only 4 posts.

But, accusing me a using metagame logic doesn't do much to make me feel Newcastle is more guilty than you are.

Zurai? Are you going to weigh in or just waiting to cast the final vote?

[Newcastle]

/ooc & the game aside


I dont think that's necessarily metagaming in my opinion. I think it's rather notating your participation and participation rates. Meta gaming in my opinion is going....well he was on X time according to this post in EBG, but he didn't pop in here, so we know that he was around...ie bringing in outside information that is not within the sphere of this thread. Of course that is a fine line.

That's the way i view metagaming. I could be wrong and I could be right. I think utilization of your participation rates or lack thereof is fair game though. Just my two cents.

Proner - in all seriousness how do you view it as metagaming? We can also have this discussion after the game though if you prefer, or now.

[Scoop20906]

This is all just an attempt at distraction. He's caught and desparate to bring up any issue he thinks might gain some traction.

Zurai's post opened a crack and this is his hail mary pass to throw some time of suspicion on me. Accusing me of metagaming doesn't prove anything especially since he has already indicated he believed Legion was Newcastle for a long time now.

I think I have seen enough too. Nothing pr0ner has done this game will change my mind from the facts.

Vote pr0ner for the win!

/ooc We can talk about metagaming afterward but I don't think I have done anything outside of the spirit of the game or what almost everyone has done already in this game and others.

[Scoop20906]

Votes:
Newcastle - pr0ner
pr0ner
Scoop20906 - pr0ner
Zurai

Vote Totals:
pr0ner - 2 votes


Votes not registered:
pr0ner, Zurai

Majority is 3 votes.

[pr0ner]

Zurai, I GUARANTEE if you vote for me, you hand the game over to the demons.

Please, do not vote for me, under any circumstances.

The demon is either Newcastle or Scoop. I think it's Scoop, with how much glee he's taking in attacking and mocking me, but I could be wrong.

And, the more I think about it, the more I think it's Scoop20906.

Think about it for a minute.

A) One of his ways of trying to prove my guilt is by metagaming. He's bringing up the classic line everyone else uses: I've been more talkative than normal, so I MUST be special/evil. He's saying I'm evil not because of only what's going on in this game, but because of what's transpired in other games. Not a very strong platform to stand on. (N.B.: I'm not saying metagaming is wrong. I'm just saying it's piss poor logic.)

B) He's stating that FACTS, not OPINIONS, show I'm evil. The only person whose role anyone at this point in the game can know, as FACT, is the role he himself holds. Unless that person is evil. Then he knows he's evil, and everyone else is innocent. It is, therefore, IMPOSSIBLE for Scoop to know my role, UNLESS he is evil.

It's like what Obi-Wan said to Anakin at the end of Episode III. "Only Siths speak in absolutes."

I have no idea who is evil. My best guess, after much speculation at the moment, is Scoop.

This is not fact. Only opinion and postulation.

Please, Zurai. Do not vote for me, under any circumstances. I GUARANTEE if you vote for me, you hand the game over to the demons.

[Zurai]

I am still reading. I will weigh in this morning. At that time I will cast my vote. Before I do, though, I want to re-read one more time just to make sure I havn't missed anything.

[Scoop20906]

Zurai, I GUARANTEE if you vote for me, you hand the game over to the demons.

I can make the same guarantee and be right about it but it means nothing because neither of us can prove this guarantee til the game is over. All I can point to are actions and if you put myself and you side by side, you played the part of a lurking/stay under the radar demon while I didn't it. Hell, I begged for my death during my rave out and Lassr/Balaam was the only one pushing for people to vote for me. All you bastards ignored me.

Please, do not vote for me, under any circumstances.

The demon is either Newcastle or Scoop. I think it's Scoop, with how much glee he's taking in attacking and mocking me, but I could be wrong.

And, the more I think about it, the more I think it's Scoop20906.

Think about it for a minute.

A) One of his ways of trying to prove my guilt is by metagaming. He's bringing up the classic line everyone else uses: I've been more talkative than normal, so I MUST be special/evil. He's saying I'm evil not because of only what's going on in this game, but because of what's transpired in other games. Not a very strong platform to stand on. (N.B.: I'm not saying metagaming is wrong. I'm just saying it's piss poor logic.)

B) He's stating that FACTS, not OPINIONS, show I'm evil. The only person whose role anyone at this point in the game can know, as FACT, is the role he himself holds. Unless that person is evil. Then he knows he's evil, and everyone else is innocent. It is, therefore, IMPOSSIBLE for Scoop to know my role, UNLESS he is evil.

So, now you have to make us believe that susposedly Lassr/Balaam my partner has been trying to get me voted into the ring for the whole game? Please explain the logic in that?

Sorry, you would have an easier time explaining why Newcastle was evil since he was your excuse not to vote for Lassr and the first person you voted for today. Also, please not how you were going after Newcastle then when Zurai opened the door a crack and said we should consider scoop, you pulled you vote and asked Zurai what he thought.

If you can give me reasons to vote for Scoop, I'm more than willing to listen.

Did you ever get a response from Zurai?

So, what changed your mind to vote for me? You didn't get any reasons from Zurai to work with.

It's like what Obi-Wan said to Anakin at the end of Episode III. "Only Siths speak in absolutes."

I love this.

[Scoop20906]

Votes:
Newcastle - pr0ner
pr0ner - Scoop20906
Scoop20906 - pr0ner
Zurai

Vote Totals:
pr0ner - 2 votes
Scoop20906 - 1 vote


Votes not registered:
Zurai

Majority is 3 votes.

[Scoop20906]

Newcastle, are you planning to change your vote from pr0ner to me?

[Newcastle]

no scoop. everything i have seen and deductions lead me to proner = legion.
my votes on proner and staying there.

[Zurai]

no scoop. everything i have seen and deductions lead me to proner = legion.
my votes on proner and staying there.

Not even if I were to vote for scoop?

[Newcastle]

i would be interested in hearing your reasons as to why you voted for him. IF those reasons and evidence were compelling enough, obviously i would have to rethink things.

But as i said before, I highly doubt that Scoop is the last demon and everything I have seen points to Proner.

[Scoop20906]

i would be interested in hearing your reasons as to why you voted for him. IF those reasons and evidence were compelling enough, obviously i would have to rethink things.

But as i said before, I highly doubt that Scoop is the last demon and everything I have seen points to Proner.

I'd like to hear something that compelling as well. I know I am a priest so that pretty damn compelling to me but I don't see alot of evidence otherwise to point to me being demon.

But seriously, Zurai, if you want to give me credit enough that I have played a game where I drew constant suspicion from practically everyone and had susposed partner demon (Lassr) gunning for me every vote and then in the next to last day I was was gunning for him and got him killed just so I could seem trusted, then you give me a ton more credit than anyone in these games ever had.

[Zurai]

The best place for Legion to hide is in plain sight. Having Balaam vote for Legion constantly could very well be a good play, as if the vote went through Balaam would get the potential to hide behind "why would I start the vote for my demon brother" and if it never did Legion gets the potential to hide behind "but the demons were voting for me all game!". Legion's role in the game was discharged before anyone voted for anything. After that point, he was by far the least valuable demon and an excellent candidate to throw to the wolves.

Note that I still have not registered a vote. I'm not convinced of anyone's guilt OR anyone's innocence, except mine. Since I fully expect to be the deciding vote, I need to be especially careful. I don't expect that I will be able to make an iron-clad case for or against anyone, but I will say that everyone is still a suspect on at least one level with me. NONE of you are in my "innocent" book. I've spent the whole day trying to eliminate at least one of you and havn't been able to fully do so.

[Newcastle]

take your time Zurai, that's all you can do really...just mull things over. Not sure how I can help you come to your decission, that's a destination you're going to have to arrive to on your own.

[Scoop20906]

The best place for Legion to hide is in plain sight. Having Balaam vote for Legion constantly could very well be a good play, as if the vote went through Balaam would get the potential to hide behind "why would I start the vote for my demon brother" and if it never did Legion gets the potential to hide behind "but the demons were voting for me all game!". Legion's role in the game was discharged before anyone voted for anything. After that point, he was by far the least valuable demon and an excellent candidate to throw to the wolves.

Note that I still have not registered a vote. I'm not convinced of anyone's guilt OR anyone's innocence, except mine. Since I fully expect to be the deciding vote, I need to be especially careful. I don't expect that I will be able to make an iron-clad case for or against anyone, but I will say that everyone is still a suspect on at least one level with me. NONE of you are in my "innocent" book. I've spent the whole day trying to eliminate at least one of you and havn't been able to fully do so.

Well, this I can understand. You decision basically decides the game and you certainly don't want to feel like you screwed up.

I think I have laid out why I feel pr0ner is the guilty demon but if you would like to interrogate me, please feel free.

There is not smoking gun to help you make your decision but it looks like two of us already agree.

[Zurai]

Alright. I've read, re-read, re-re-read, tried to put myself in everyone's shoes as if they were innocent and as if they were Legion. In all of this, I've been able to find things that make me go "Hmmmm". However, as Newcastle said, there is no smoking gun. No one thing stands out to me as "HE is Legion!". So, I have to go with my instincts, and my instincts are shouting that pr0ner is a Demon.

Dies iacta est.

[Scoop20906]

Good Choice, Zurai. Austin???

[pr0ner]

Congrats, Demons.

You win this one.

[Austin]

note - I only have a couple minutes before watching a movie with my beautiful wife (she might read this over my shoulder)

Pr0n3R fought the other priests and Legion but was not strong enough to hold them off. As he was tossed into the ring and the flames lept up to consume him, there was pain, but more markedly telling on his face was despair. "What will become of the Divine? Will the balance shift to Legion and those who bear the Dark Redden? Why..." Than just blackness.

Newcastle seemed to grow in presence as well as physically. As if he were being filled with something. A flash moved from his left shoulder as Mr. Bonkgo darted at Zurai tearing out his throat. Scoop moved to aid his brother but was quickly consumed by a black light, thick as tar. Legion gathered up the relics and set out for his armies, with no one to stop him was there any hope left?

Evil wins. Newcastle was Legion.

http://omgbaddies.funforumgames.com/index.php#1

http://secretmason.freeforums.org/

http://spoilerz.funforumgames.com/

[Scoop20906]

Dammit!!! I was so sure. Newcastle! You bastard. You better be taking a break!

[Newcastle]

I have to apologize to everyone who plays this game. I did something that I am not proud of in any sense or form. Theoretically I should not have been alive on the last day. I am writing this up on the last day. Whether my side wins or loses it doesn’t matter right now. I actually would prefer a village win, so that way I know my guilt trip didn’t have anything to do with a “wolf” victory. In all honesty I really want the game to end right now so I can start mending fences.

My apology centers around this – on the day that Rev got lynched……I made a very REVOLTING and TASTELESS play. I centered my defense on my smear campaign V. Rev on indignation and a temper tantrum. When Unagi called me on the smear campaign, I responded in a way which I shouldn’t have. I remembered thinking on how I should defend myself. I chose indignation, instead of the logic of the gameplay. I shouldn’t have. I got so wound up in my defense that I took the play to an utterly unacceptable level. I challenged Unagi on a raw, emotional level. An area which I shouldn’t have done . I guilt tripped him and bullied him on an emotional level which should not be in this game AT ALL. I threw a tempter tantrum at not being believed. I took that defense to such an inappropriate level that it really was tasteless. I, in essence, created a huge guilt trip on Unagi, that allowed me to escape and go forward.
I have to give a lot of credit to Unagi – he handled it in a very mature and smart way. He ceded me the point and decided to move on. He took the higher road, and erred on the side of caution, just in case my feelings were indeed hurt. I took the low road, throughout the event.

I am not asking you to forgive or forget, but realize I am sorry for what I did. It was totally inappropriate and outside of the spirit of the game. I shouldn’t have done what I did, and I should have centered my defense on the logic of the gameplay not on the logic of right and wrongs in terms of emotions. I hope that this doesn’t happen again. I know for me I will never, ever do anything like that again. It was callous, meanspirited and totally outside of the realms of the game play.

[pr0ner]

Told you so.

[RevHempus71]

I have to apologize to everyone who plays this game. I did something that I am not proud of in any sense or form. Theoretically I should not have been alive on the last day. I am writing this up on the last day. Whether my side wins or loses it doesn’t matter right now. I actually would prefer a village win, so that way I know my guilt trip didn’t have anything to do with a “wolf” victory. In all honesty I really want the game to end right now so I can start mending fences.

My apology centers around this – on the day that Rev got lynched……I made a very REVOLTING and TASTELESS play. I centered my defense on my smear campaign V. Rev on indignation and a temper tantrum. When Unagi called me on the smear campaign, I responded in a way which I shouldn’t have. I remembered thinking on how I should defend myself. I chose indignation, instead of the logic of the gameplay. I shouldn’t have. I got so wound up in my defense that I took the play to an utterly unacceptable level. I challenged Unagi on a raw, emotional level. An area which I shouldn’t have done . I guilt tripped him and bullied him on an emotional level which should not be in this game AT ALL. I threw a tempter tantrum at not being believed. I took that defense to such an inappropriate level that it really was tasteless. I, in essence, created a huge guilt trip on Unagi, that allowed me to escape and go forward.
I have to give a lot of credit to Unagi – he handled it in a very mature and smart way. He ceded me the point and decided to move on. He took the higher road, and erred on the side of caution, just in case my feelings were indeed hurt. I took the low road, throughout the event.

I am not asking you to forgive or forget, but realize I am sorry for what I did. It was totally inappropriate and outside of the spirit of the game. I shouldn’t have done what I did, and I should have centered my defense on the logic of the gameplay not on the logic of right and wrongs in terms of emotions. I hope that this doesn’t happen again. I know for me I will never, ever do anything like that again. It was callous, meanspirited and totally outside of the realms of the game play.

I am a very forgiving type Newcastle. I have enjoyed your presence in these few games I have played in. I will continue to enjoy your presence in the future. Besides we all know every now and again "shit happens" we learn from it. And hopefully know well enough to dodge it next time.

However I will say that was one hell of a smear post you put together. I almost voted for myself... . I wanted to draw your (the badguys' )attention this game. That part worked. To my demise.... ( Bastards ). I mean damn I really gave you some "ammo" for that post.......

[Austin]

Thanks for playing! I have some ideas for future games and I hope all can join in for another one later. Hope it was fun. (Is 81 pages a record? )

[RevHempus71]

Are you trying to say we are some slow as windbags???????

[Newcastle]

Thanks for playing! I have some ideas for future games and I hope all can join in for another one later. Hope it was fun. (Is 81 pages a record? )

I had a lot of fun overall, and thought your EMP power was very cleverly designed. The hidden powers dealio is something that is very intriguing, the hidden masons was also very cool.

I will say though, that at certain parts...it took way too damn long...especially the day 1 deadlock. And yes 81 pages am pretty sure was a record. I know we need time to figure things, and I didn't help in terms of sorting the day 1 voting...but certain parts definitely lagged.

[Lassr]

Thanks for playing! I have some ideas for future games and I hope all can join in for another one later. Hope it was fun. (Is 81 pages a record? )

I really enjoyed the game and I plan on adding a few secret powers to my BSG game before you patent the idea.

[triggercut]

Very fun game Austin! Thanks for conceiving and running it!

[Grundbegriff]

You did a very good job of balancing the secret powers, Austin. I know that was your primary concern.

The EMP was clever.

[Zurai]

I very much liked the hidden powers aspect of the game and would sign up for a sequel right now if there was one in the offing. Fun game, even though I knew it was doomed when I realized I was the swing vote

[Remus West]

No worries. I blew it day 1 when I voted tru1cy. I made a play designed to let me learn some things (Bahktosh and Zurai as innocents and Lassr as evil) I should have really pushed lynching Lassr that first day based off that play but did not. Had I done so Zurai could have come forward day 2 and told us Lassr was Balaam which would have cleared me as no bad guy was going to point to Balaam hard on day 1. We then would have had a better known block to go from and had I followed my own friggin logic that told me Lassr was evil I would have also pointed out Newcastle AND Chaosraven. What could have been the ultimate play got wasted because I am an idiot.

Ah well.