00 - WoT - Game Over - Chris in Hot Water

[Kraegor]

as an aside, Unagi actually looks innocent so he shouldn't be balefired.

Chris is certainly enjoying setting Unagi up. Downright gleeful.

Would seem Graendal is well hidden.

[ChrisGrenard]

Kraegor, things might not be as helpless as you think. Yeah, I mean, we're still at 80% helpless, but there might be a few people with tricks up their sleeves. Or cloaks, or whatever the hell we are wearing. Turbans?

[Lassr]

of course Chris is lying. that's patently obvious.

So you suspect Chris is throwing Unagi under the bus the get the double kill?

That has crossed my mind also. But why jump on the Unagi vote so soon then?

[Kraegor]

of course Chris is lying. that's patently obvious.

So you suspect Chris is throwing Unagi under the bus the get the double kill?

That has crossed my mind also. But why jump on the Unagi vote so soon then?

who's jumping? I am the vote.

[Lassr]

as an aside, Unagi actually looks innocent so he shouldn't be balefired.

Chris is certainly enjoying setting Unagi up. Downright gleeful.

Would seem Graendal is well hidden.

Ok, what?

Unagi looks innocent...

[ChrisGrenard]

Kraegor... are you the compelled today? I ask because I explicitly said that we shouldn't put ANY votes down until we are sure of what we're doing. I'm thinking maybe you are compelled and trying to hint to the good guys that you were compelled by putting down a vote early, and then countering it with your words.

If I'm right, thanks for the info. If I'm wrong, well, no biggie I guess.

[Kraegor]

Kraegor, things might not be as helpless as you think. Yeah, I mean, we're still at 80% helpless, but there might be a few people with tricks up their sleeves. Or cloaks, or whatever the hell we are wearing. Turbans?

What does what I think have to do with it? I posted exactly what scenarios are open and their attendant consequences. There is zero opinion or conjecture in those scenarios. what other options are available?

[Lassr]

Kraegor... are you the compelled today? I ask because I explicitly said that we shouldn't put ANY votes down until we are sure of what we're doing. I'm thinking maybe you are compelled and trying to hint to the good guys that you were compelled by putting down a vote early, and then countering it with your words.

If I'm right, thanks for the info. If I'm wrong, well, no biggie I guess.

interesting

obviously he can't say he is compelled but he sure has acted like it.

[ChrisGrenard]

Kraegor, things might not be as helpless as you think. Yeah, I mean, we're still at 80% helpless, but there might be a few people with tricks up their sleeves. Or cloaks, or whatever the hell we are wearing. Turbans?

What does what I think have to do with it? I posted exactly what scenarios are open and their attendant consequences. There is zero opinion or conjecture in those scenarios. what other options are available?

One I suspect you already know of, as I saw you reading the thread during Scoop and I's argument that involved a few edits.

[Sean, Minister of KtSP]

Checking in before another long day at work. Not sure what the hell we should do. It seems difficult, if not impossible to lynch a bad guy today, so what then are we to do?

Anyway, I have no vote or consensus to offer just yet. I'll do my best to keep up on my phone today.

[Scoop20906]

Kraegor, are you totally ignoring logic?

[Lassr]

It seems difficult, if not impossible to lynch a bad guy today, so what then are we to do?

Chris or Unagi is a bad guy, maybe both.

Unagi as wormwood and Chris as aginor seems possible.
It would seem kraegor is compelled to vote Unagi.

So Unagi is either a bad guy being set up to explode or is an innocent being framed. I was ready to vote Chris today. This just makes me have to decide which route to go.

Unagi or Chris. I can't think of a legitimate argument to lynch anyone else right now.

Which brings me to your statement.
Are you suggesting that the bad guys control 4 votes and thus Unagi is probably innocent?

[ChrisGrenard]

Lassr is correct. I have presented evidence against Unagi and he has pointed out that he believes I am lying about the evidence. Clearly, one of us is evil. Perhaps both, but I do have further evidence that I am not evil, but it cannot be presented until the lynch is assured for the day. Scoop knows what it is, and I suspect Kraegor does as well (due to a too-slow edit on my part), but I'm crossing my fingers that neither of those two are evil.

I recommend that you lynch Unagi today. I'm sorry to say that if he's innocent, the village has likely lost, but that's where we're at with the game. However, allow me to write a bit about why he's the better bet than I am.

1) His reaction post.

2) Pretend I was evil: We're so far ahead at this point that there would be no need to try anything at all. We could all just sit back and not make a single post for the day and you guys would still probably lose.

Now, I have the damn stick of Ego. I could copy paste the entire description and flavor text, but I think that would be outside the spirit of the game. And I think we all agree that it was used for evil, as no villager has ever stepped up to either kill. There is no reason that I can think of for Unagi not telling us previously that he had found the used stick.

Now, one final note: Pretend Unagi is evil. Why would he be given the Ego stick, which had been used? Remember, the bad guys can't just get rid of their items, so why would he be the one with it? I would suspect that, when we kill Unagi, one of us is going to get killed as well. He's likely the dagger-baddie, and it was probably decided that of the three bad guys he was the most expendable should the stick be found.

That means that we are going to lose one of the voters on this one.

Now, here's where the fun comes in. We know there are likely 2 other bad guys, right? And Kraegor, who might be compelled, is also voting for Unagi.

So, here's my recommendation: Let me be one of the people who votes, along with Kraegor, but then let's attempt to force as many of the other two bad guys to vote on him as well. Give it a slight chance that he manages to kill off a bad guy rather than a villager. I'm not sure if this works within the rules, but it would actually give us a pretty good chance, and would be *awesome* if we did pull it off.

So, how would we manage to force the bad guys to vote for one of their own?

I nominate that we force a stalemate.

Put three votes on Unagi (Myself, Kraegor, one innocent) and then NOBODY else vote on the guy. I'm serious, let this game sit for a full year if we have to. The two other bad guys will be forced to put votes in on him, just to get the day over. In all likelyhood, they'll try to save one of their own by having Unagi self-vote for the 5th vote, but in any case it gives us a better chance than we'd have otherwise.

So, what do you guys think?

[Unagi]

I'd still like to hear from our quiet little Kelric.
I will admit I am a little turned around by this play. Mostly because I have been pretty convinced that Kraegor is one of the baddies.

So, ChrisG (and co.) start the day off claiming I had the EGO. (knowing * I would counter that he's a liar)
This would be them purposefully putting ChrisG in the hot seat, but if you think about it - it's in a very obvious way - Why?
ChrisG (and co.) compelled Kreagor to Vote for me (I think). I don't think the plan was for Kraegor to be so obvious about it though. Hence why ChrisG announced that he wanted NO VOTES at the start of the day. So, what did ChrisG do once Kraegor came out with his vote?

Another thought I had was that ChrisG was actually compelled to Vote or Implicate me, and he's playing it out with full gusto.
Like he said he would:

No, what I was indicating is that two of the compelled people so far, in my opinion, haven't been playing the compelled in good faith. I'm just saying that, for the sake of the game, you and Chaosraven made it seriously too easy to tell you were compelled.

See, part of the reason I like posting my opinions on the night cycle is then I can't deviate from them too much during the day. That way, if I am compelled during the day cycle, which I would attempt to be super good at (it's all part of the gameplay!), people could figure it out based on my previous night's opinions.

I'm not sure what to make of Kraegor now. This whole game he's been one of my prime suspects close behind are: Lassr/Scoop/Kelric/Sean.
mipe, I am pretty sure is a good-guy.

*

HOLY SHIT, we got one! I would've believed if he had come up with a story, but goddamn! I thought we were gonna outright lose this one, but this is fantastic. At least we get one this game!

Nice one.

I feel like my hand is being forced on ChrisG right now, and I am actually torn between the thought that it was done with that design, or that this was actually ChrisG thinking Kraegor would be more inclined to play the Pet less obviously.

What's the plan here. I am obviously OK to vote ChrisG, but I am also OK with hearing what others think.

[ChrisGrenard]

No, what I was indicating is that two of the compelled people so far, in my opinion, haven't been playing the compelled in good faith. I'm just saying that, for the sake of the game, you and Chaosraven made it seriously too easy to tell you were compelled.

See, part of the reason I like posting my opinions on the night cycle is then I can't deviate from them too much during the day. That way, if I am compelled during the day cycle, which I would attempt to be super good at (it's all part of the gameplay!), people could figure it out based on my previous night's opinions.

AHAHAHAHA! Just you wait, my good man. Just you wait. Scoop, whom I believe has just proven himself innocent to me, as he would have pm'd his buddy about this one, would you care to help this man out?

[ChrisGrenard]

I'd still like to hear from our quiet little Kelric.
I will admit I am a little turned around by this play. Mostly because I have been pretty convinced that Kraegor is one of the baddies.

So, ChrisG (and co.) start the day off claiming I had the EGO. (knowing * I would counter that he's a liar)
This would be them purposefully putting ChrisG in the hot seat, but if you think about it - it's in a very obvious way - Why?
ChrisG (and co.) compelled Kreagor to Vote for me (I think). I don't think the plan was for Kraegor to be so obvious about it though. Hence why ChrisG announced that he wanted NO VOTES at the start of the day. So, what did ChrisG do once Kraegor came out with his vote?

Another thought I had was that ChrisG was actually compelled to Vote or Implicate me, and he's playing it out with full gusto.
Like he said he would:

No, what I was indicating is that two of the compelled people so far, in my opinion, haven't been playing the compelled in good faith. I'm just saying that, for the sake of the game, you and Chaosraven made it seriously too easy to tell you were compelled.

See, part of the reason I like posting my opinions on the night cycle is then I can't deviate from them too much during the day. That way, if I am compelled during the day cycle, which I would attempt to be super good at (it's all part of the gameplay!), people could figure it out based on my previous night's opinions.

I'm not sure what to make of Kraegor now. This whole game he's been one of my prime suspects close behind are: Lassr/Scoop/Kelric/Sean.
mipe, I am pretty sure is a good-guy.

*

HOLY SHIT, we got one! I would've believed if he had come up with a story, but goddamn! I thought we were gonna outright lose this one, but this is fantastic. At least we get one this game!

Nice one.

I feel like my hand is being forced on ChrisG right now, and I am actually torn between the thought that it was done with that design, or that this was actually ChrisG thinking Kraegor would be more inclined to play the Pet less obviously.

What's the plan here. I am obviously OK to vote ChrisG, but I am also OK with hearing what others think.

Just preserving the rest of this post.

[Kraegor]

Kraegor, are you totally ignoring logic?

are you ignoring my question?

[ChrisGrenard]

Okay, current suspicion matrix.

ChrisGrenard - Innocent, and just you wait for the fun part.
Kelric - Unknown, I suspect innocent since he tends to not give a crap when he's non-powered. A truly lazy man.
Kraegor - Likely innocent. Would have tipped off Unagi if he had been evil.
Lassr - Unknown, but this game he's struck me as good. But my radar has been WAY the fuck off this game, as evidenced by me helping lynch Grund and Austin.
mipe - Unknown
Scoop20906 - Very likely innocent, would have tipped off Unagi, since he most definitely knows my secret.
Sean - Unknown
Unagi - So evil it's hilarious.

[Scoop20906]

No, what I was indicating is that two of the compelled people so far, in my opinion, haven't been playing the compelled in good faith. I'm just saying that, for the sake of the game, you and Chaosraven made it seriously too easy to tell you were compelled.

See, part of the reason I like posting my opinions on the night cycle is then I can't deviate from them too much during the day. That way, if I am compelled during the day cycle, which I would attempt to be super good at (it's all part of the gameplay!), people could figure it out based on my previous night's opinions.

AHAHAHAHA! Just you wait, my good man. Just you wait. Scoop, whom I believe has just proven himself innocent to me, as he would have pm'd his buddy about this one, would you care to help this man out?

Chris, I have one problem with what you are hinting at. Why didn't you use it the night before?

[ChrisGrenard]

Recently re-acquired from Triggercut. I removed the text in case the other powered fire tangerine was still in play. However, at this point I actually reread the rules and I think the evil team has burned both of their attacks. Go ahead with the info.

Edit: Actually, hold up, let me read something first.

Edit 2: Yeah, hold up on that.

"(6) If Wormwood is lynched, the magic in the dagger will allow him to over power his executioners and kill someone from the list of those that voted to lynch him. He will perish in the attack."

Sounds like he can pick his target. Fuuuu*****. Okay well, that's fun I guess.

[Scoop20906]

So, ChrisG (and co.) start the day off claiming I had the EGO. (knowing * I would counter that he's a liar)
This would be them purposefully putting ChrisG in the hot seat, but if you think about it - it's in a very obvious way - Why?
ChrisG (and co.) compelled Kreagor to Vote for me (I think). I don't think the plan was for Kraegor to be so obvious about it though. Hence why ChrisG announced that he wanted NO VOTES at the start of the day. So, what did ChrisG do once Kraegor came out with his vote?

Another thought I had was that ChrisG was actually compelled to Vote or Implicate me, and he's playing it out with full gusto.

You are probably going to act pissed at me, Unagi, but all this makes no sense and just seems like you are trying to construct a story to fit your predicament. At the moment, I believe ChrisG alot more then I believe you.

Ok, I was wrong before and Kraegor and Chris are right. Unagi could have had a unused Ego Thursday night and killed Triggercut with it.

However, I can report that on Wednesday Night I searched Unagi's tent and he had nothing. That proves nothing but I felt it would be helpful to report it.

Which brings me to your statement.
Are you suggesting that the bad guys control 4 votes and thus Unagi is probably innocent?

The bad guys have three votes and are one lynch away from winning the game. They (most likely) have used up both their tangerine kills. They can control the vote by assigning the Pet to vote for one of the innocents and tricking one innocent into joining that vote and then all three can pile on.

So, why would they even bother to implicate one of their own by ordering the Pet to vote for a baddie? This really makes no sense to me. It is not a logical move.

Now, Kraegor's quick vote seems very petish to me. Especially considering he has only voted ONCE this game (for Rev) and announced it was a social experiment.

This is an interesting turn of events.

[ChrisGrenard]

This is an interesting turn of events.

Quoted for truth. I thought the end-game was just gonna be depressing. At least this way we're having fun!

[ChrisGrenard]

C'mon Kraegor and Sean, I see your name on the list of people reading the thread...

[stessier]

"(6) If Wormwood is lynched, the magic in the dagger will allow him to over power his executioners and kill someone from the list of those that voted to lynch him. He will perish in the attack."

Sounds like he can pick his target.

You are correct. Wormwood picks his target.

[Kraegor]

I see no reason to continue until Scoop answers my question.

[Scoop20906]

I see no reason to continue until Scoop answers my question.

Why?

[Scoop20906]

Edit 2: Yeah, hold up on that.

So, do you mind if I answer Kraegor's question?

[ChrisGrenard]

Edit 2: Yeah, hold up on that.

So, do you mind if I answer Kraegor's question?

Actually, I'm working on a plan in my head. Give me like 10-20 minutes here, we can hold out that long.

[Unagi]

I recommend that you lynch Unagi today. I'm sorry to say that if he's innocent, the village has likely lost, but that's where we're at with the game. However, allow me to write a bit about why he's the better bet than I am.

Read that.

Did you not just basically admit that I am innocent?

Hello?

[Scoop20906]

Edit 2: Yeah, hold up on that.

So, do you mind if I answer Kraegor's question?

Actually, I'm working on a plan in my head. Give me like 10-20 minutes here, we can hold out that long.

Ok, well, you are risking the sarcastic wrath of Kraegor...

[Sean, Minister of KtSP]

working. Only have time to read ATM. Sorry you're in such ahurry, cg.

[ChrisGrenard]

Alright, so this might not be the best plan in the world, but hell, we're on the ropes anyway.

I am not presently compelled because I'm currently wearing the Armor. The armor, of course, being the owl statue that was stolen from me at the beginning of the game. I found it on Triggercut.

This means that, I believe, I am immune to being killed by Wormwood. I was hoping to keep this part a secret, as I was hoping he'd try to kill me anyway, but I get the feeling that at the very minimum his teammates have figured out what I was VERY blatantly hinting at. I had said that I had this earlier today, but removed it after I had second thoughts. Scoop, of course, clearly saw it. Kraegor may have as well, but I'm not sure on him.

That Unagi went and accused me of being compelled means that he was unaware that I was wearing the armor. Scoop, had he been evil, would have told Unagi that I had the armor on, thus he would have come up with a different plan.

I believe that this means, for the rest of the village, that the only players who can be trusted are myself and Scoop, and *maybe* Kraegor. Though not today, as I'm pretty certain that Kraegor is dropping serious hints for us that he's the compelled.

Now, being as I have reread the rules on wormwood and he gets his choice of kill, I think that whomever votes for him should be prepared to be killed. So if you have some secret unknown power or something special, don't jump on the bandwagon.

Know that my armor wears off tonight after the lynch. So, the innocents MUST recover this. The armor is pretty much the only power we still have that can save us, if we happen to get lucky. Everybody should raid the fuck outta my tent tonight, and I'll attempt to guess another bad guy and maybe get the other boomstick tangerine thing.

Alright, so, I know I said we shouldn't vote, but I never expected to actually nail a bad guy immediately like this. There is zero doubt in my mind that the correct move is to kill Unagi and hope for the best. Best case, he's the one bad guy who doesn't take any of us down. Middle case, Kraegor dies as the pet. Worst case, he takes down a voter.

[Unagi]

Actually, I'm working on a plan in my head. Give me like 10-20 minutes here, we can hold out that long.

Yes, this being the only day that you need to secure, I see you working your little but off. I guess this whole 'compel Kreagor' thing didn't work out as well as you had hoped.
All your 'edit's too have me wondering just what foot you've put in your mouth and what you have corrected.

Guys, I am OK with just voting for ChrisG right now, but I would like to give Kelric the chance to shoot him dead if he has the LIFE.

Personally, I think ChrisG did this knowing he would be feared as Wormwood and not lynched for that reason - I am not biting, I am willing to take the risk on ChrisG I think. Crap. I don't know what the hell we can really do right now.

Scoop - can you clarify why you called ChrisG a liar?

[ChrisGrenard]

Actually, I'm working on a plan in my head. Give me like 10-20 minutes here, we can hold out that long.

Yes, this being the only day that you need to secure, I see you working your little but off. I guess this whole 'compel Kreagor' thing didn't work out as well as you had hoped.
All your 'edit's too have me wondering just what foot you've put in your mouth and what you have corrected.

Guys, I am OK with just voting for ChrisG right now, but I would like to give Kelric the chance to shoot him dead if he has the LIFE.

Personally, I think ChrisG did this knowing he would be feared as Wormwood and not lynched for that reason - I am not biting, I am willing to take the risk on ChrisG I think. Crap. I don't know what the hell we can really do right now.

Scoop - can you clarify why you called ChrisG a liar?

Haha! Hahaha! Hahahahaha! <-- I actually did this out loud in the sing-songy voice.

You should refresh more often, my good man.

So, without futher ado  Vote Unagi 
 

[Unagi]

Alright, so this might not be the best plan in the world, but hell, we're on the ropes anyway.

I am not presently compelled because I'm currently wearing the Armor. The armor, of course, being the owl statue that was stolen from me at the beginning of the game. I found it on Triggercut.

This means that, I believe, I am immune to being killed by Wormwood. I was hoping to keep this part a secret, as I was hoping he'd try to kill me anyway, but I get the feeling that at the very minimum his teammates have figured out what I was VERY blatantly hinting at. I had said that I had this earlier today, but removed it after I had second thoughts. Scoop, of course, clearly saw it. Kraegor may have as well, but I'm not sure on him.

That Unagi went and accused me of being compelled means that he was unaware that I was wearing the armor. Scoop, had he been evil, would have told Unagi that I had the armor on, thus he would have come up with a different plan.

I believe that this means, for the rest of the village, that the only players who can be trusted are myself and Scoop, and *maybe* Kraegor. Though not today, as I'm pretty certain that Kraegor is dropping serious hints for us that he's the compelled.

Now, being as I have reread the rules on wormwood and he gets his choice of kill, I think that whomever votes for him should be prepared to be killed. So if you have some secret unknown power or something special, don't jump on the bandwagon.

Know that my armor wears off tonight after the lynch. So, the innocents MUST recover this. The armor is pretty much the only power we still have that can save us, if we happen to get lucky. Everybody should raid the fuck outta my tent tonight, and I'll attempt to guess another bad guy and maybe get the other boomstick tangerine thing.

Alright, so, I know I said we shouldn't vote, but I never expected to actually nail a bad guy immediately like this. There is zero doubt in my mind that the correct move is to kill Unagi and hope for the best. Best case, he's the one bad guy who doesn't take any of us down. Middle case, Kraegor dies as the pet. Worst case, he takes down a voter.

Just quoting this shit because he keeps going back an editing things.

[mipe]

First of all: If someone has my Mr. Wobbles (Wolf statue) The god of nightmares (OOoOooOOOoooO!!) Please return it to me. Now.

Also, as the timeline pressed too hard, I only got 1 message from chaosraven, here is summary: he said he got compelled twice (I have proof of that, as I have scanned) + having limited internet. Also, was going to search Kruegor's tent at night, searched Austin's tent on Thursday night, got Gab, but didn't have time to use it.

[Scoop20906]

This is an answer to Kraegor's question for why I asked what if owl statue did anything.

I searched ChrisGrenard tent last night and he had the owl statue. I was not able to steal it. I asked if the Owl Statue did anything because I seemed to remember someone mentioning something about it and also I was fishing a little to see if I got a response.

If ChrisGrenard activated the armor last night then I could not have stolen it from him and also he is immune to compulsion.

Ter’angreal of Armor
(a) For the Special who has a big mouth!
(b) Once activated, this is a passive, always on power that last for one complete Day/Night cycle.
(c) It protects from Compulsion and all forms of death except the Lynch.
(d) It can not be stolen while its power is active.
(d) This Ter’angreal never loses its power, but only works for each person once per game.

I believe ChrisGrenard is telling the truth about have the armor and it being active. Therefore, his accusation fo Unagi can not be compulsion in my eyes. However, a baddie could activate the armor and still accuse Unagi. Furthermore, since Kreagor seems compelled (at moment this is the likely theory) then it would make sense for the baddies to try and trick us into putting one of our votes on a good guy by fabricating a story.

This is not a slam dunk.

[Scoop20906]

Just quoting this shit because he keeps going back an editing things.

Agreed. ChrisGrenard, stop with the edits please. Its bad form. Make a post and stand by it. Thanks.

[ChrisGrenard]

I searched ChrisGrenard tent last night and he had the owl statue. I was not able to steal it. I asked if the Owl Statue did anything because I seemed to remember someone mentioning something about it and also I was fishing a little to see if I got a response.

If ChrisGrenard activated the armor last night then I could not have stolen it from him and also he is immune to compulsion.

Heh, how about that. Yeah, I activated it because last time I had it, it got stolen before I got to use it. However, that you knew about the owl statue earlier even further assures me that you aren't evil, as you would have told Unagi about that earlier.

Also, just for reference, owl statue does not prevent lynching. So the only death it would prevent for the bad guys is death via the last remaining life charge, which is who knows where.

[Scoop20906]

Anyone know if the owl statue does anything?

Yeah, the owl statue was the one I had at the very beginning of the game. I've told you multiple times that I named it "YAY RLY" and it was the armor statue. It was stolen on the first night and I've been trying to get it back ever since.

Edit: Out of curiosity, why do you ask?

Why are you lying ChrisGrenard?

Reponse to Unagi:
At the time, I asked about the Owl Statue I knew ChrisGrenard had it. His response above seems to say he didn't have the Owl Statue so I asked him why he was lying.