Werewolf 101 Wednesday - Chaosrendered

mipe · Post by **mipe** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:02 am

Grundbegriff wrote:
mipe wrote:Huh? I voted Rev because Stess had voted him too, not because a revengevote.
Why is following stessier better than voting for revenge?

Well, it was actually more like 30% Revenge voting, 70% following stess..

Why did I follow stess? One reason:
Greater chance of survival for me. I had few other choices, accusing some random guy, or just do nothing. But as I am already being voted out, if I wouldn't do anything, it would just make my end nearer.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:29 am

mipe wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:
mipe wrote:Huh? I voted Rev because Stess had voted him too, not because a revengevote.
Why is following stessier better than voting for revenge?
Well, it was actually more like 30% Revenge voting, 70% following stess..

So now you're changing your story when challenged?

Why did I follow stess? One reason: Greater chance of survival for me.

So "doing what stessier does" gives you a greater chance of survival than "voting against someone because he voted against you"? (The latter is the famous "triggercut principle": in the absence of better moves, vote against the guy who wants you dead since -- if you're innocent-- he's not helping the team.)

A greater chance of survival-- let's see how that factor informs your explanation:

I had few other choices, accusing some random guy

How would "doing what stessier does" help your chance of survival more than "accusing some random guy"?

or just do nothing. But as I am already being voted out, if I wouldn't do anything, it would just make my end nearer.

How would "doing what stessier does" help your chance of survival more than "just doing nothing"? After all, by voting against your second accuser, rather than against your first, and by then claiming you were merely copying stessier and not retaliating, you've drawn a lot of attention to yourself.

Everyone is now watching you answer, and your answers shift and fail to make sense.

What are we supposed to do with that?

RevHempus71 · Post by **RevHempus71** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:19 am

Mipe are you politician? There seems to be some serious flip-flopping going on here?

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:29 am

mipe · Post by **mipe** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:41 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:
Why did I follow stess? One reason: Greater chance of survival for me.
So "doing what stessier does" gives you a greater chance of survival than "voting against someone because he voted against you"? (The latter is the famous "triggercut principle": in the absence of better moves, vote against the guy who wants you dead since -- if you're innocent-- he's not helping the team.)

A greater chance of survival-- let's see how that factor informs your explanation:

I had few other choices, accusing some random guy
How would "doing what stessier does" help your chance of survival more than "accusing some random guy"?

or just do nothing. But as I am already being voted out, if I wouldn't do anything, it would just make my end nearer.
How would "doing what stessier does" help your chance of survival more than "just doing nothing"? After all, by voting against your second accuser, rather than against your first, and by then claiming you were merely copying stessier and not retaliating, you've drawn a lot of attention to yourself.

Everyone is now watching you answer, and your answers shift and fail to make sense.

What are we supposed to do with that?

I could have voted Semaj. At that point, I would had 2 votes, Semaj 1 and Rev 1. By voting Rev, I would still have that 2 votes and rev would have 2, thus making my chance of survival bigger chance... Now if I would only get 4 more people to believe me... Also, why would I kill Bubbles? If I would have been Wolf, I would have killed you, grund, no offence.. :/

Hey guys!! I'm seer! I scanned Rev as a wolf! Vote him off nao! [/joke]

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:04 pm

mipe wrote:I could have voted Semaj. At that point, I would had 2 votes, Semaj 1 and Rev 1. By voting Rev, I would still have that 2 votes and rev would have 2, thus making my chance of survival bigger chance... Now if I would only get 4 more people to believe me... Also, why would I kill Bubbles? If I would have been Wolf, I would have killed you, grund, no offence.. :/

Hey guys!! I'm seer! I scanned Rev as a wolf! Vote him off nao! [/joke]

How does that help us to understand this?:

Why did I follow stess? One reason: Greater chance of survival for me.

mipe · Post by **mipe** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:44 am

Grundbegriff wrote:
mipe wrote:I could have voted Semaj. At that point, I would had 2 votes, Semaj 1 and Rev 1. By voting Rev, I would still have that 2 votes and rev would have 2, thus making my chance of survival bigger chance... Now if I would only get 4 more people to believe me... Also, why would I kill Bubbles? If I would have been Wolf, I would have killed you, grund, no offence.. :/

Hey guys!! I'm seer! I scanned Rev as a wolf! Vote him off nao! [/joke]
How does that help us to understand this?:
Why did I follow stess? One reason: Greater chance of survival for me.

It gives a greater chance of survival for me to vote someone who already has 1 vote. That person would need 1 less vote to get lynched.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:55 am

oddly I know what mipe means....

Grund is going to have a brain anyeurism trying to figure it out.

Mipe is being honest (read, honesty, not the best policy in WW games)

For him the simple thought, voting for a person with 1 vote might starta train before his gets started and thusly allow him to live another day.

People here see tyring to live as a sign of being evil... I see it as well... If you ever playa game to die, ytou should stop playing it. You will probably eventually die, but it doesnt mean you accept it. Accepting it in theory is metaing (Ok he accepted it, he's a good guy) You fight tooth and nail to lvie because its your life at stake...

Anyways... rambling conversation ending shortly... but before I leave I'll say:

it doesnt matter whatcha thing grund, my guess is the first person you accuse of being a werewolf is a innocent based on the grund be wrong theory I proved 2 games ago

Admittedly there should be an exception that proves the rule, but I refuse to look through the annuls of history for it.

Mipes playing the "Game" or the best his abilities will allow. No begrudging him that one.

mipe · Post by **mipe** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:43 pm

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:47 pm

Mr Bubbles wrote:I see clearly now the rain is gone... It's going to be a bright.. bright bright and sun shiny day

i made u a seer but i eated it

can haz mipeburger nao?

mipe · Post by **mipe** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:52 pm

no u can haz no mipeburger nao. i made mipeburger on maself but i eated it.

u can haz revburger nao. go get revburger nao. kthxbai

//edit: typo ;/

mipe · Post by **mipe** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:54 pm

Damn! this is what I get for forgotting to read rules! I forgot this part!

Austin wrote:Making people think you are not a werewolf is highly encouraged at all times.

*facepalm*

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:59 pm

Goddamned kids, go to bed!
aka Night Chatter:

1. Remus West - 8
2. Stessier - 2
3. Chris Grenard - 2
4. mipe - 4
5. Scoop90210 - 3
6. Kraegor - 2
7. Semaj - 0
8. Mr. Bubbles - 5 (dead)
9. Rev - 0
10. Chaosraving - 1
11. Grundbegriff - 2
12. Purge - 2
----------------------------------
-----------------------------------
Morning Crew: Friday Edition
5. Scoop90210
4. mipe
9. Rev
2. Stessier
3. Chris Grenard
6. Kraegor
1. Remus West
11. Grundbegriff
------------------------
7. Semaj - weekend warrior
-------------------------
10. Chaosraving - slept in til sunday
--------------------------
12. Purge - forgot we can checkin on the weekend

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:02 pm

mipe

mipe · Post by **mipe** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:17 pm

Have it your way :/

Mipe

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:19 pm

tru1cy wrote:Have it your way :/

tru1cy

mipe · Post by **mipe** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:37 pm

Chaosraven wrote:
tru1cy wrote:Have it your way :/

tru1cy

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:32 pm

mipe wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:
tru1cy wrote:Have it your way :/

tru1cy

tru1cy's main defense is a self-vote.

BTW, if you are a villager then self-voting is not helping your side. Force others to get on the voting record for/against doesn't matter but force their voices to be heard. If you are a wolf then self voting is not a good play either because you do not do it often enough to get us to back off on that type of move. In fact, it may just sway me to actually cast my vote for you since I do not think you are a likely "to have been scanned" target.

Which brings up another point. If the target of last night's scan gets close to being lynched they should announce they were the scan target from last night. (and if they were the scan target, are not a wolf, and do not know they were the scan target then our Seer needs a kick to the nads. That's what PMs are good for. You know a guy is clean. Let him know and start building the block.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:26 pm

mipe wrote:Have it your way :/

Mipe

Ok, Mipe, this is so unlike you. I know your still kind of new to our group but self-voting? What are you trying to achieve?

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:44 pm

mipes flinching.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:06 pm

Scoop# acc mipe(1)
RevHempus# acc mipe(2)
stessier acc RevHempus#(1)
mipe acc RevHempus#(2)
Remus West acc Semaj(1)
Semaj acc Remus West(1)
Chaosraven acc mipe(3)
mipe acc mipe(4)

Votes required to send someone back to basics: 6

Against mipe(4): Scoop#, RevHempus#, Chaosraven, mipe
Against RevHempus(1): stessier
Against Semaj(1): Remus West
Against Remus West(1): Semaj

No vote registered: ChrisGrenard, Grundbegriff, Kraegor, purge

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:36 am

Semaj wrote: it doesnt matter whatcha thing grund, my guess is the first person you accuse of being a werewolf is a innocent based on the grund be wrong theory I proved 2 games ago

yeah... cuz prior to 2 games ago Grund never skewered anyone or pushed a random lynch

I'm thinkin we lynch scoop for using false statistics. That sorta behavior sceams "evil"!

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:38 am

Scoop20906 wrote:
mipe wrote:Have it your way :/

Mipe

Ok, Mipe, this is so unlike you. I know your still kind of new to our group but self-voting? What are you trying to achieve?

same thing all martyrs want. 69 virgins and a bottomless bucket of beer in heaven.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:53 am

Kraegor wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote:
mipe wrote:Have it your way :/

Mipe

Ok, Mipe, this is so unlike you. I know your still kind of new to our group but self-voting? What are you trying to achieve?
same thing all martyrs want. 69 virgins and a bottomless bucket of beer in heaven.

If you guys will promise me 69 sluts (hotties by my definition not yours) I'll be the martyr. I like women who know what they are doing.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:24 am

Semaj wrote:it doesnt matter whatcha thing grund, my guess is the first person you accuse of being a werewolf is a innocent based on the grund be wrong theory I proved 2 games ago

You still don't get it, do you?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:51 am

Grundbegriff wrote:
Semaj wrote:it doesnt matter whatcha thing grund, my guess is the first person you accuse of being a werewolf is a innocent based on the grund be wrong theory I proved 2 games ago
You still don't get it, do you?

Considering he still think the objective is to live as an individual rather than win as a team I think it pretty clear that he does not get it.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:34 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:

Scoop# acc mipe(1)

RevHempus# acc mipe(2)

stessier acc RevHempus#(1)
mipe acc RevHempus#(2)

Remus West acc Semaj(1)

Semaj acc Remus West(1)

Chaosraven acc mipe(3)

mipe acc mipe(4)
Votes required to send someone back to basics: 6

Against mipe(4): Scoop#, RevHempus#, Chaosraven, mipe
Against RevHempus(1): stessier
Against Semaj(1): Remus West
Against Remus West(1): Semaj

No vote registered: ChrisGrenard, Grundbegriff, Kraegor, purge

This looks right to me. Thanks Grund.

mipe · Post by **mipe** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:09 pm

Kraegor wrote:
Semaj wrote: it doesnt matter whatcha thing grund, my guess is the first person you accuse of being a werewolf is a innocent based on the grund be wrong theory I proved 2 games ago
yeah... cuz prior to 2 games ago Grund never skewered anyone or pushed a random lynch

I'm thinkin we lynch scoop for using false statistics. That sorta behavior sceams "evil"!

Yes it does! Scoop

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:13 pm

mipe

it might be bandwagoning, but he really does seem to be trying to get anyone else killed but himself... shady acres...

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:13 pm

Remus West wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:
Semaj wrote:it doesnt matter whatcha thing grund, my guess is the first person you accuse of being a werewolf is a innocent based on the grund be wrong theory I proved 2 games ago
You still don't get it, do you?
Considering he still think the objective is to live as an individual rather than win as a team I think it pretty clear that he does not get it.

It could just be that his team is a lot smaller and more likely to lose...

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:14 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:
Semaj wrote:it doesnt matter whatcha thing grund, my guess is the first person you accuse of being a werewolf is a innocent based on the grund be wrong theory I proved 2 games ago
You still don't get it, do you?

Smiley face = joke... didnt we go over that, since apparently everyone always thinks I am serious...

and usually I get it... day one or day two...

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:17 pm

Semaj wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:
Semaj wrote:it doesnt matter whatcha thing grund, my guess is the first person you accuse of being a werewolf is a innocent based on the grund be wrong theory I proved 2 games ago
You still don't get it, do you?
Smiley face = joke... didnt we go over that, since apparently everyone always thinks I am serious...

and usually I get it... day one or day two...

My goal for you is day 1. Gotta do the kids proud.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:25 pm

stessier wrote:
Remus West wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:
Semaj wrote:it doesnt matter whatcha thing grund, my guess is the first person you accuse of being a werewolf is a innocent based on the grund be wrong theory I proved 2 games ago
You still don't get it, do you?
Considering he still think the objective is to live as an individual rather than win as a team I think it pretty clear that he does not get it.
It could just be that his team is a lot smaller and more likely to lose...

ok

lets try this approach to my rational explanation:

Who is better at endgame for the good guys: A Live grund or a live tu1cy (who isnt even paying attention for the most part, off at school, etc.) or a live mipe?

Obvious answer: Grund. He can make reads on a lot of the people and occasionally throw out serious gems and wisdom. So, why wouldnt he fight to live?

Now admittedly, going quietly into that good night means he is "Playing for the team" because it means he isnt a wolf and as such is helping you all out. But in reality to me, it seems not fighting to live is just silly. Why would you want to die ever? Can you imagine if we all played for reals? You'd be kicking screaming, backstabbing and everything you possibly could not to die. looking for extra hairs on someone, hoping someone accidentally growled so you could lynch them.

Thats how I assume the game should be played.... You look for clues, you try to form alliances with people you hope you can trust, you try and read everyone at the table (Live) or on the boards and look for evidence. Would you rather the game hangs in your ability to think things through or someone elses? Me? I want the ball, I want the chance to make game changing decisions. I love it when the pressure is on and suddenly I come up with that breakthrough that makes the game that much more winnable.

There is just a level of frustration when I dont think anyone pays attention to em. Instead looking for reasons to just kill me, ignoring all the work I have put into the game. And even when I come up a good guy, no one really wants to go back and see what I did, instead saying I was "bad for the team".

Also I have a question:

Hey Austin, when I pm someone else, should I cc it to you?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:27 pm

You can PM anyone at will.

Nobody said you had to go quietly just that living should not be the number 1 priority. Finding the bad guys should be.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:31 pm

yes, but the argument is, anyone who wants to live must be evil, because it only matters if you die if you are powered.

It's a flawed and silly argument, but one I hear as I get sent to the gallows/pit/etc.

I thought Austin might want the cc's for the spoiler forums.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:04 pm

Semaj wrote:yes, but the argument is, anyone who wants to live must be evil, because it only matters if you die if you are powered.

It's a flawed and silly argument, but one I hear as I get sent to the gallows/pit/etc.

I thought Austin might want the cc's for the spoiler forums.

Nope. No wolf forums (at least by my making) and no spoiler forums. No need for WW forums as they can just PM and spoilers are pretty straight forward.

If someone is killed I'll be happy to share the roles with them.

mipe · Post by **mipe** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:05 pm

Roleplaying, roleplaying, roleplaying.

mipe · Post by **mipe** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:10 pm

...as the presence of evil and cruelty grow ever stronger in the world; the very landscape shall undergo a fell transformation. The earth shall be torn apart by horrible tremors, and cracks to the underworld shall spring open wherever the land has been marked. The infernal fires of Hell shall spread forth from these cracks, and the world shall be seared and scarred by unholy flames...the wicked and the righteous alike shall be engulfed by the blaze, and all shall they die in pain and anguish...

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:48 pm

mipe wrote:...as the presence of evil and cruelty grow ever stronger in the world; the very landscape shall undergo a fell transformation. The earth shall be torn apart by horrible tremors, and cracks to the underworld shall spring open wherever the land has been marked. The infernal fires of Hell shall spread forth from these cracks, and the world shall be seared and scarred by unholy flames...the wicked and the righteous alike shall be engulfed by the blaze, and all shall they die in pain and anguish...

This is because of Ahtisaari, right?

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:55 pm

that or austin has been eating buritos again.