Crafting in MMORPGs...

All discussions regarding Board, Card, and RPG Gaming, including industry discussion, that don't belong in one of the other gaming forums.

Moderators: The Preacher, $iljanus, Zaxxon

Post Reply

Yay or nay?

Love it!
18
51%
Hate it!
5
14%
Meh...I can take it or leave it...just give me more combat!
11
31%
Don't you mean 'skillZzzZzz' ?!? n00b...
1
3%
 
Total votes: 35

GungHo
Posts: 3940
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:15 am
Location: Second star to the right

Crafting in MMORPGs...

Post by GungHo »

So do you love it or hate it?

A common complaint RE: this genre is crafting...e.g SW:G has one of(if not the) most complex crafting systems out there. Apparently so does EQ2; for a lot of ppl this is a HUGE drawback as they dont want to be bothered with finding 8 Tiberian Gas + 3 Dewback hides + 2 Advanced Biological Effect Controllers(which themselves are comprised of 3 minerals + 5 animal hides + 4 Corellian water and can only be made by the Doctor class) to make 1(!) Widget. Especially when in order to 'level up' in their crafting skill, they need to make 3,748 Widgets.

Other people absolutely love going through the process and at the end cranking out something truly well-made, and (potentially) worth its weight in gold.

In the middle we've got WoW; you have some of the aspects of SW:G in that if you find better components you can make better stuff. However, unlike SW:G you really dont have much control over what you find, and the grind in WoW is to Keep.Killing.More.Stuff. until you (finally) get the drops you need. SW:G says, 'There stuff is all there for the taking, you've just got to be motivated enough to 1)deal with other players and get what you need from those specific classes and 2)be willing to literally, travel the galaxy attending to harvesters, moisture vaporators, etc. to cull the components you need.

Pros and cons to both there, obviously. WoW lets you keep doing that which the game is really centered around, and that's combat. SW:G allows you to play the game sort of like a small business simulator(it can be said WoW has that aspect as well, though I think given that in SW:G componets can be readily had(even if they are a PITA to acquire), you're more likely to be able to keep customers happy; wheras WoW is 100% dependent on drops from mobs, which is far less reliable).

At the other end of the spectrum we've got CoH. No skills, no economy, no houses, trading is limited to enhancements and everything XP-related is dependent solely on combat(well you can get the occasional 100 xp for doing FedEx mishs...but given CoH's steep XP reqs, those are essentially negligible).

I think it's interesting to note that CoH is, reportedly, coming out with some sort of 'skills system'...what that will entail, Ive got no friggin' idea(which superhero was it that made Robin's tights?....yeah, not exactly what *I* wanna be known for). So I think the demand is there, in some form or another.

personally, there was a long period of time(about a year) that I loved SW:G's system. Made it all the way to Master Bio-Engineer(which, as anyone who's ever played that game can tell you, is either a study in masochism or a damned impressive feat of dedication). However, eventually I felt that the game was more like work, and I finally gave it up. Now Im playing both WoW and CoH and Im finding that I like both, and Im frustrated by both. :D :?

At times I wish there was something else I could do in CoH besides lay the smack down(when buds arent on, and my available mishs are too tough(dont group with the ppl i dont know as a general rule)). Meanwhile, in WoW, I often find that relying on mobs for stuff(Im a skinner and tailor), *especially* when Im *just* about to lvl a skill and only need a few more items, can be incredibly frustrating.

Any thoughts?
OR
cry in a corner that the world has come to a point where you have to pay for imaginary shit.

-Hiccup
User avatar
bluefugue
Posts: 911
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:10 pm

Post by bluefugue »

I like it in the sense that it gives you another spectrum of tasks to prioritize, rather than just bashing mobs. It provides a contrast with the combat oriented stuff, and gives you more to do (and to look forward to) during the downtime periods when you return to town from a tough day at the dungeon, etc. Also, gathering skills (e.g. mining/herbalism in WoW) make wandering around more fun.

I don't know that crafting in WoW is implemented as well as it could be. A lot of it still comes down to just watching bars grow, although there's also the extra element of having to track down the ingredients you want -- which can be either enjoyable or a drag depending on your frame of mind I suppose.

I don't know if it's worth exploring making crafting more "minigame" ish, maybe incorporating some kind of easy action element. It'd probably get tedious pretty quickly no matter how you did it.

I still think it'd be neat if MMOGs had more minigames though, stuff you can compete with other players in. Pazaak/Arcomage style cardgames, maybe in-game chess or other types of boardgame, even races perhaps.
User avatar
Odin
Posts: 20732
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:29 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY

Post by Odin »

I enjoyed crafting in WoW in terms of gathering materials and making stuff for myself, essentially for free. I didn't much care for trying to play the economy in the hopes of making money off any of it - it usually wasn't feasible. I DIDN'T like having 20 of one ingredient but only 2 of the second ingredient I needed, nor did I like the amount of bank and space I devoted to storing ingredients.

Sith
User avatar
qp
Posts: 4103
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:48 am
Location: Port Hope, ON
Contact:

Post by qp »

I like wow's fairly simple, and the AH helps a lot for finding rarer items. I also like that you can make stuff like scopes or armour patches that you can sell to other players or just use yourself to upgrade your equipment. You can even make the odd "rare" item. A lot of my equipment is self made (though the odd time I've bought something on the AH - twice now buying some kick ass piece of armour, only after realizing that was something I could have made myself with a few more skill points)

EQ2's sounds like it'd be more trouble than its worth. Heck sometimes I'm tempted to drop crafting and just double up on material gathering skills in WoW as it is.

But for real crafting, if it ever comes out, there'll be - www.atriarch.com
Game developer in Port Hope, Ontario
Five Archers Corporation
@FiveArchers on Twitter!
User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 57174
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Post by Smoove_B »

Crafting is what finally broke me in SWG. I was a Ranger / Smuggler.

After being off for week (for whatever reason), I'd log back on and get PEGGED with /tells from like 8 different people that wanted equipment modified and "smugglerized". It was getting to the point where crafting was like a job and I couldn't actually play the game.

Maybe if I picked a combat intense character class I wouldn't have lasted longer...but with only one character per server, I was locked in after 4 months.

Oh well.

I'm BIG into CoH right now -- and mostly because you just log on, beat down bad guys, then log off. No extra "hamster wheels" to keep you busy.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
User avatar
Napoleon
Posts: 1182
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:07 am
Location: The Low Countries
Contact:

Post by Napoleon »

Having had experience only in WoW so far....I like it, but not completely.

The problem, IMHO, is that it's almost impossible to make stuff that's better than the drops you get at your level. Sure, your lower-level guildies can usually use your stuff, and in that respect it's nice to be able to craft. But when I was a tailor in beta, I very rarely used anything I could craft myself.

I also wish the crafting was on the one hand slightly more advanced, but on the other hand also slightly less rigid.

For example, now you have set plans of stuff you can make. I would like it if there was, for example a basic armor plan that allowed you to make a leather vest. And then you could outfit that leather vest with gems or other ingredients or whatever so you could make the armor have better stats. Basically, think gemmed items in Diablo 2.
Where Cows Congregate - The Bovine Conspiracy
User avatar
godhugh
Forum Admin
Posts: 10016
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:18 pm
Location: Plano, TX
Contact:

Post by godhugh »

While the game was crap overall, I think Horizons had the best crafting system in a MMORPG to date. It was complex, but not too complex. You could create some really swank items and it always felt like you were making progress. There were problems with the implementation (not enough high level resources, etc...) but the system itself was top-notch.
To my Wife:

"Life's only life with you in this song" -Whistles the Wind, Flogging Molly

Not to my Wife:

- "When someone smiles at me, all I see is a chimpanzee begging for his life."
User avatar
knob
Posts: 3446
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:19 am
Location: St. Louis
Contact:

Post by knob »

I wouldn't say "Just give me more combat!" but crafting is certainly something I really don't care one way or the other about. I fool around with it in every game I play, but never take it serious enough to make much of value.
If I had a sig, would you read it?
User avatar
Austin
Posts: 15192
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:49 pm
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Contact:

Post by Austin »

qp wrote:
But for real crafting, if it ever comes out, there'll be - www.atriarch.com
Is that game seriously still around? (actually still in development) Thats' the one with all the freaky strange looking 'races' right?

Edit: It's asking me to upgrade to Flash 5 to play with their character creation tool. Time for an update maybe?
Post Reply