[WW] Deep Cover (Postmortem)

[Unagi]

Maybe I just assumed it was deeper because I knew I was Crypto again meaning paul was the convert, thus pr0ner was still good.

Your analysis of pr0ner and paul was off, though I couldn't say so at the time.

It's true that there was no direct way to get pr0ner's token as MoD unless he gave it up. However, the following combo would've worked:

[1] DIT pr0ner to remove and evaporate the MoD role, leaving him as whatever was in his sidecar.
[2] MP him, to get his token as that.
[3] Convert/Kill/Maim
[4] Profit!!!

Oh, wait-- that last step is if you convert paulbaxter....

Oh sure, that could have happened. But then you look at how the players behaved after the fact. pr0ner was pr0ner. paul seemed to not be paul. The quick vote on Unagi seemed very out of character. But maybe that's just because I was already wedded to the idea that paul was the convert. Meh - I still give myself full credit for the right answer even if the reasoning wasn't foolproof. Wasn't there something about deduction getting us 90% and the last 10% being skill/luck/faith??

And I didn't realize the MoD role could evaporate until you spelled it out in that one IF X Then Y post. I didn't get that from reading the original rules at all. Why does the DiT evaporate the MoD?

I thought the MoD role would shift over to the Templar - as long as the Templar had the ability to absorb roles. (so, not the T-treasure, nor T-crypto)

Like the P-CCAT/SA would turn into: "P-CCAT / MoD&SecondaryRole", or Austin, as a simple SA - would turn into a MoD/SA if he DITed proner.


Also-

Stessier, why did that mean that a role had to have changed? I am confused, couldn't the conversion of the GW-Treasurer (who could have been anyone) have caused the CCC?
(Sadly, I couldn't come out and say that...)

[theohall]

Maybe I just assumed it was deeper because I knew I was Crypto again meaning paul was the convert, thus pr0ner was still good.

Your analysis of pr0ner and paul was off, though I couldn't say so at the time.

It's true that there was no direct way to get pr0ner's token as MoD unless he gave it up. However, the following combo would've worked:

[1] DIT pr0ner to remove and evaporate the MoD role, leaving him as whatever was in his sidecar.
[2] MP him, to get his token as that.
[3] Convert/Kill/Maim
[4] Profit!!!

[/size]

Color me confused. Didn't the rulez state the Temple couldn't convert/kill unless they knew a player's true role? If they DiT'd him taking his secondary role, his new secondary role would be whatever they swapped him with to get that secondary role. An MP shows whatever role they swapped in - not his status as MoD. So how could they convert/kill him without knowing his true role? Wouldn't it require a failed conversion/kill attempt first?? And even then they still wouldn't have the MoD's token.

[Unagi]

By the way, the night everything was stolen, I would have wound up as MoD with Analyst as the sidecar (I was going to swap with LM to test Trig's story), and I would have scanned Unagi with one of the MPs.

Why did the theft take away your ability to DIT? or did I miss something.

No, he started as MOD/Crypto, and DITted the Crypto role to KK with his ability; I think he had an order to use the purchased DiT on LM to grab his Analyst role, but the DiT was taken.

Ahh, gotcha

[Unagi]

Maybe I just assumed it was deeper because I knew I was Crypto again meaning paul was the convert, thus pr0ner was still good.

Your analysis of pr0ner and paul was off, though I couldn't say so at the time.

It's true that there was no direct way to get pr0ner's token as MoD unless he gave it up. However, the following combo would've worked:

[1] DIT pr0ner to remove and evaporate the MoD role, leaving him as whatever was in his sidecar.
[2] MP him, to get his token as that.
[3] Convert/Kill/Maim
[4] Profit!!!

[/size]

Color me confused. Didn't the rulez state the Temple couldn't convert/kill unless they knew a player's true role? If they DiT'd him taking his secondary role, his new secondary role would be whatever they swapped him with to get that secondary role. An MP shows whatever role they swapped in - not his status as MoD. So how could they convert/kill him without knowing his true role? Wouldn't it require a failed conversion/kill attempt first?? And even then they still wouldn't have the MoD's token.

You miss #2, where we would MP him to learn his final resting role.

[Newcastle]

actually you guys made some basic mistakes....
1. scoops typo
2. your typo (unagi)
3. the wall being able to glom on to triggercut; he really had the perfume called "evil" all over him. But that was more from what he didn't do, than what he did do. from my perspective.

I dont think everyone was conveinced on austin at teh end. I was, however, but that was more due to my unique perspective.

[Grundbegriff]

I know i asked for a lot of clarifications via PM's. Maybe, in the future you should post those, but remove the person's name?

That would've been best. I just didn't have the time.

[Unagi]

EDIT: this was to Theohall....


lets say

pr0ner is MoD / ??unknown??

We DIT him with Austin - who is just a Templar Special Agent.

POOF - Austin is now: MoD/Special Agent.
pr0ner is now ??unknown??.

Now we MP proner. We learn that ??unknow?? = "Analyst".

we use the "Pr0ner=Analyst" token to Kill/Convert.

[Grundbegriff]

I thought the MoD role would shift over to the Templar - as long as the Templar had the ability to absorb roles. (so, not the T-treasure, nor T-crypto)

Like the P-CCAT/SA would turn into: "P-CCAT / MoD&SecondaryRole", or Austin, as a simple SA - would turn into a MoD/SA if he DITed proner.

Yes, that's more or less right.

[Unagi]

2. your typo (unagi)

My typo?

I thought I was busted holding an MP I had no business holding.

There was no real story that would get me out of that.


(I certainly agree we made a ton of mistakes)

[Grundbegriff]

[1] DIT pr0ner to remove and evaporate the MoD role, leaving him as whatever was in his sidecar.
[2] MP him, to get his token as that.
[3] Convert/Kill/Maim
[4] Profit!!!

[/size]

Color me confused. Didn't the rulez state the Temple couldn't convert/kill unless they knew a player's true role? If they DiT'd him taking his secondary role, his new secondary role would be whatever they swapped him with to get that secondary role.

DIT on the MoD doesn't take his secondary role; it takes his primary role and leaves him with his secondary role.

[Grundbegriff]

2. your typo (unagi)

My typo?

I thought I was busted holding an MP I had no business holding.

That's true. However, at one point you did poke the innocents. I can't remember the details. Remus?

[Newcastle]

2. your typo (unagi)

My typo?

I thought I was busted holding an MP I had no business holding.

There was no real story that would get me out of that.


(I certainly agree we made a ton of mistakes)

i think it had to do with being able to search scoop's body, and you weren't really in a position to do that if you were innocent or what you found on it....actually that was it...you said you found stuff on scoops body, but he never was able to buy anything...the market had never opened. . something along those lines.

[Grundbegriff]

i think it had to do with being able to search scoop's body, and you weren't really in a position to do that if you were innocent or what you found on it....actually that was it...you said you found stuff on scoops body, but he never was able to buy anything...the market had never opened. . something along those lines.

That's what it was: Unagi claimed to have taken an MP off Scoop's corpse, even though Scoop died before the first loadout.

[theohall]

EDIT: this was to Theohall....


lets say

pr0ner is MoD / ??unknown??

We DIT him with Austin - who is just a Templar Special Agent.

POOF - Austin is now: MoD/Special Agent.
pr0ner is now ??unknown??.

Now we MP proner. We learn that ??unknow?? = "Analyst".

we use the "Pr0ner=Analyst" token to Kill/Convert.

yeah - misread a rule.

Anyway - I still totally dislike the automatic assigning of an actual role to an SA if a Wallie is converted to the Temple and knows that member was an SA. It gives the Temple an automatic target. That to me is seriously game imbalancing. Make the role assignment completely random so the 'known' person could still possibly be an SA and it makes more sense.

The above is even worse if the converted Wallie knew multiple actual roles. Say there were 8 Wallies left and one Wallie 'knew' 3 roles. He gets converted. All 3 "known" roles become SAs and ignored by the Temple, while the remaining 4 are totally screwed as the Temple now knows the 3 of the 4 roles are in a seriously small subset. That's a serious flaw.

Totally random re-assignment with the possibility of the same player receiving the same role would adjust that imbalance.

[Grundbegriff]

Totally random re-assignment with the possibility of the same player receiving the same role would adjust that imbalance.

I agree. The mechanical nature of the CCC gave the Temple too much information, which was contrary to the point.

[Unagi]

2. your typo (unagi)

My typo?

I thought I was busted holding an MP I had no business holding.

There was no real story that would get me out of that.


(I certainly agree we made a ton of mistakes)

i think it had to do with being able to search scoop's body, and you weren't really in a position to do that if you were innocent or what you found on it....actually that was it...you said you found stuff on scoops body, but he never was able to buy anything...the market had never opened. . something along those lines.

Yes, then we are talking about the same thing really.

There wasn't really anything I could say, as 1) I was already highly suspect... for the first two days I had been playing "LOOK!! Over there!! Maybe someone esle could be guilty! " , and 2) I was caught with an MP that there was no way to trace back to legit funding.

I could have improved my story to say I stole 49 off Scoop, but after a little thought, that would also yield a big "Yeeeahhh,, rrrrrright".
... and still, all of this hinged on my story that Triggercut the Treasurer sent me $ by name - and I didn't use it to protect him.

I guess I should say, when that MP was taken - I presumed it was totally obvious I was Temple.

I mean, at first, I planned to just tell everyone "Where did I get the MP??? Where??? I stole it from LordMortis. "

[Lagom Lite]

I TOLD you I was innocent.



Problem: The Temple gets to coordinate their actions. The Wall does not.
Controversial solution: Remove the Temple's ability to communicate secretly (their private forum). One agent converts, another one kills. Increase Temple budget.

[Lagom Lite]

First day, I was an unpowered Secret Agent for the Wall. I got no money. I was thoroughly confused by the rules. I decided to play Wall hit-man, poke around my votes and shout "KILL ME!" to the Templars, while trying to figure out and BREAK the rules (I almost did it too!).

Second day, stuff started clearing up. I started to see what people "ambiguously" outed themselves as (decoys, roles etc.) and I could watch from the sidelines as a Treasurer.

Third day, I could even start influencing things since I could out my previous role as Treasurer and expose triggercut's DiT and Unagi's MP.

I had a lot of fun, but the lynch prevention events seriously cramped our style. I feel if lynches would be guaranteed kills, it wouldn't matter if the Temple has wads of cash, as long as we voted for the right targets.

[stessier]

Stessier, why did that mean that a role had to have changed? I am confused, couldn't the conversion of the GW-Treasurer (who could have been anyone) have caused the CCC?
(Sadly, I couldn't come out and say that...)

I got the role of Crypto during that CCC. Before that I was a SA. As it was explained (and perhaps I misunderstood), this meant that the CCC needed my SA role because someone knew who the Crypto was. There were only 2 people "In the Know" about the Crypto role on KK - pr0ner who DiT'd it to KK in the first place, and paul through an MP the same night.

pr0ner was also "In the Know" about anyone else he DiT'd as well. Since it was clear he had taken LM's Analyst role, that means LM would have been reassigned as well. He certainly didn't appear to be saying he had been. On top of that, if LM had been converted as some point and was just covering for pr0ner, LM was In The Know about Remus - and Remus said he was still "Same ol', Same ol'."

So it had to be paul. Well, 90% had to be anyway.

[stessier]

actually you guys made some basic mistakes....
1. scoops typo
2. your typo (unagi)
3. the wall being able to glom on to triggercut; he really had the perfume called "evil" all over him. But that was more from what he didn't do, than what he did do. from my perspective.

I dont think everyone was conveinced on austin at teh end. I was, however, but that was more due to my unique perspective.

This.

For #2 though, it was Unagi saying he found the MP on Scoop when it was impossible for it to be true.

For #3, I thought it was because trig looked calm and that he had a plan and was acting to push things in a certain direction. Of course, I thought Newcastle was helping him, so what do I know.

I think it was funny - on Day 1 I said it was LM and Unagi. LM - the good guy - tries to lynch me while Unagi was all forgiving like after the usual hustle and bustle retort. On Day 2, I said it was Newcastle and Trig and we eventually lynch (and fail) trig. 2 for 4 - I've done much worse.

And I was absolutely right about us not lynching a Templar on the first day. It wasn't my fault that Scoop forgot his own role. (Sorry Scoop - couldn't resist. I still haven't read the Templar forum - I'm assuming you were under a little stress at the time. )

[stessier]

Stessier, why did that mean that a role had to have changed? I am confused, couldn't the conversion of the GW-Treasurer (who could have been anyone) have caused the CCC?
(Sadly, I couldn't come out and say that...)

I got the role of Crypto during that CCC. Before that I was a SA. As it was explained (and perhaps I misunderstood), this meant that the CCC needed my SA role because someone knew who the Crypto was. There were only 2 people "In the Know" about the Crypto role on KK - pr0ner who DiT'd it to KK in the first place, and paul through an MP the same night.

pr0ner was also "In the Know" about anyone else he DiT'd as well. Since it was clear he had taken LM's Analyst role, that means LM would have been reassigned as well. He certainly didn't appear to be saying he had been. On top of that, if LM had been converted as some point and was just covering for pr0ner, LM was In The Know about Remus - and Remus said he was still "Same ol', Same ol'."

So it had to be paul. Well, 90% had to be anyway.

Oh, you are saying that the Treasurer would have bought an MP and learned who KK was. No, that was really, really low probability. KK was known to have been scanned twice (pr0ner and paul). What Wallie would have scanned him a 3rd time?

[stessier]

Theo -

I'm curious. Did it really take you as long as it seemed to accept I couldn't be a Templar, or was some of it just for show?

And why were you upset that I was making sure we knew where all the roles went? You clearly understood that the Temple would learn a lot from a CCC. The only way the Wall could counter that was to keep careful track of the roles ourselves so we could see what happened. I thought it was pretty clear why we had to do it, but pr0ner seemed upset by it as well, so maybe I was missing something.

[paulbaxter]

I don't have a specific fix for this, but what turned out to be one of the most significant parts of the way the game rolled along was the particular order of night operations, specifically that thievery always happened first. This dynamic prevented LOTS of things from going forward, particularly for the GW. Wonder if there is a reasonable way to tweak that. Perhaps a randomized time for the theft operations? Would make things less mechanistic and more probabilistic.

[Grundbegriff]

Perhaps a randomized time for the theft operations? Would make things less mechanistic and more probabilistic.

... and horrible to resolve.

[Unagi]

Problem: The Temple gets to coordinate their actions. The Wall does not.

I feel that is the heart of all these games. The ability to coordinate is at the core of their power.

It's fine to say, "Let's not let them communicate", but that is a major shift.

I really wish you all had a chance to play Temple, almost every toy in this game was designed to expose us.

Why the FAK wasn't used as a cheap MP, I don't know - it would have showed Austin as Treasurer, Paul as Treasurer, and Myself as Treasurer.

[Unagi]

Stessier, why did that mean that a role had to have changed? I am confused, couldn't the conversion of the GW-Treasurer (who could have been anyone) have caused the CCC?
(Sadly, I couldn't come out and say that...)

I got the role of Crypto during that CCC.

sorry, I missed that. I really need to open that spreadsheet (I've been afraid to)

[stessier]

In before the crash!

A history I'm working on.

Monday Day

Spoiler:

Roles

• Temple
  • P-CCAT: triggercut
    Treasurer: Unagi
    Cryptologist: Scoop
  Wall
  • Cryptologist: stessier
    Analyst: LordMortis
    Master of Disguise: paulbaxeter
    
    Decoy Analyst / Secret Agent: theohall
    Decoy MoD / Secret Agent: Remus West
    Decoy Treasurer / Secret Agent: Chaosraven
    
    Treasurer / Secret Agent: Austin
    
    Secret Agent: Kenetickid
    Secret Agent: Lagom Lite
    Secret Agent: pr0ner
    Secret Agent: Sean

Funding

• Wall
  • 60% of 20/agent = 144
  Temple
  • 80% of 20/agent = 48

BAP Allocations

• Wall
  • 85 to Austin (received 98)
  • 59 to Analyst (received 62)
  Temple
  • 16 to Unagi (received 23)
  • 16 to triggercut (received 21)
  • 16 to Scoop (received 27)

Suballocations

• Wall
  • None
  Temple
  • Unagi sends 23 to triggercut
  • Scoop transfers 7 to triggercut
  • triggercut transfers 51 to Unagi

Day Actions

• stessier PEK's theohall
• Scoop MitME's Chaosraven
• Unagi MitMe's theohall
• trig MitMe's ???
• Scoop Lynched

****************************************

Monday Night

Spoiler:

Roles

• Temple
  • P-CCAT: triggercut
    Treasurer: Unagi
    Cryptologist: Scoop
  Wall
  • Cryptologist: stessier
    Analyst: LordMortis
    Master of Disguise: paulbaxeter
    
    Decoy Analyst / Secret Agent: theohall
    Decoy MoD / Secret Agent: Remus West
    Decoy Treasurer / Secret Agent: Chaosraven
    
    Treasurer / Secret Agent: Austin
    
    Secret Agent: Kenetickid
    Secret Agent: Lagom Lite
    Secret Agent: pr0ner
    Secret Agent: Sean

Inventories

• Wall
  • Austin has $98
  • LordMortis has $62
  Temple
  • Unagi has $50
  • Scoop's Corpse has $20

Spending

• Wall
  • Austin purchases BB(3), MP, MitME(2)
  • LordMortis purchases BB(2), MP
  Temple
  • Unagi purchases BB, MP

Night Actions

• Wall
  • Austin protected stessier (result = null)
  • Austin protected theohall (result = null)
  • Austin scanned pr0ner (result = SA)
  • LordMortis stole from Chaos (result = null)
  • LordMortis stole from paulbaxter (result = null)
  • LordMortis scanned Unagi with MP (result = MP stolen before scan)
  • LordMortis scanned Remus with Analyst (result = SA)
  • paulbaxter MoD DiT's stessier (result = paulbaxter->Cryptologist, stessier->SA)
  Temple
  • Unagi stole from LordMortis (result = $2, MP)
  • Unagi scanned Austin (result = GW Treasuere + Token)
  • Temple converts Austin (result = Austin Communes, CCC=> pr0ner->MoD/Crypto, paulbaxter->SA, Budget allocation adujustment)
  • Austin donates $8 to Unagi
  ****************************************

Tuesday Day

Spoiler:

Roles

• Temple
  • P-CCAT: triggercut
    Treasurer: Unagi
    Cryptologist: Scoop
    In Communion: Austin
  Wall
  • Cryptologist: pr0ner
    Analyst: LordMortis
    Master of Disguise: pr0ner
    
    Decoy Analyst / Secret Agent: theohall
    Decoy MoD / Secret Agent: Remus West
    Decoy Treasurer / Secret Agent: Chaosraven
    
    Treasurer / Secret Agent: Lagom Lite
    
    Secret Agent: Kenetickid
    Secret Agent: Lagom Lite
    Secret Agent: stessier
    Secret Agent: Sean
    Secret Agent: paulbaxter

Inventories

• Wall
  • Nothing
  Temple
  • Unagi has $11, MP
  • Austin has BB, MitME(2)
  • Scoop's Corpse has $20

Funding

• Wall
  • 100% of 30/agent = 360
  • LordMortis gets $39 from CCC adjustment (Austin knew budget allocation)
  • Lagom Lite gets $57 from CCC adjustment (Austin knew budget allocation)
  Temple
  • 100% of 20/agent = 60
  • Insurance on Scoop = 30
  • Unagi gets $5 for successful BB theft

BAP Allocations

• Wall
  • 120 to Analyst (received 122)
  • 120 to Master of Disguise (received 131)
  • 120 to Cryptologist (received 122)
  Temple
  • 1 to Austin (received 6)
  • 1 to triggercut (received 12)
  • 104 to Unagi (received 111)

Suballocations

• Wall
  • LordMortis sends 61 to Chaosraven
  • LordMortis sends 50 to stessier
  • LordMortis sends 50 to paulbaxter
  Temple
  • Austin sends 6 to Unagi
  • triggercut sends 12 to Unagi
  • Unagi transfer 40 to triggercut
  • Unagi transfer 30 to Austin

Day Actions

• Austin MitME on pr0ner
• Austin MitME on stessier
• pr0ner Crypto PEK's Austin
• Austin protects triggercut
• triggercut lynched (result = failed)

[/list]

****************************************

Tuesday Night

Spoiler:

Roles

• Temple
  • P-CCAT: triggercut
    Treasurer: Unagi
    Cryptologist: Scoop
    In Communion: Austin
  Wall
  • Cryptologist: pr0ner
    Analyst: LordMortis
    Master of Disguise: pr0ner
    
    Decoy Analyst / Secret Agent: theohall
    Decoy MoD / Secret Agent: Remus West
    Decoy Treasurer / Secret Agent: Chaosraven
    
    Treasurer / Secret Agent: Lagom Lite
    
    Secret Agent: Kenetickid
    Secret Agent: Lagom Lite
    Secret Agent: stessier
    Secret Agent: Sean
    Secret Agent: paulbaxter

Inventories

• Wall
  • Nothing
  Temple
  • Unagi has $11, MP
  • Scoop's Corpse has $20

Spending

• Wall
  • pr0ner buys DiT, FAK(2), PEK, MitME, BB(2), MP(3)
  • Lagom buys PEK, BB(4)
  • stessier buys BB(5)
  • paulbaxter buys MP, BB
  • Chaosraven buys BB, PEK, MP
  Temple
  • triggercut buys a DiT
  • Unagi buys BB(5)

Night Actions

• Wall
  • pr0ner DiT LordMortis (result = null, DiT stolen by Unagi)
  • pr0ner FAK stessier (result = null, stolen by Unagi)
  • pr0ner FAK Chaosraven (result = null, stolen by Unagi)
  • pr0ner stole from triggercut (result = null, Lagom got there first)
  • pr0ner stole from Lagom (result = BB, PEK, $7)
  • pr0ner MP Sean (result = null, stolen by Unagi)
  • pr0ner MP Newcastle (result = null, stolen by Unagi)
  • pr0ner MP Unagi (result = null, stolen by Unagi)
  • Lagom stole from triggercut (result = DiT)
  • Lagom stole from Unagi (result = $9,MP)
  • Lagom stole from Newcastle (result = DiT )
  • stessier trailed triggercut
  • stessier trailed Unagi
  • stessier trailed Newcastle
  • stessier protected pr0ner
  • paulbaxter trailed Sean
  • paulbaxter MP Kenetickid (result = GW Crypto)
  • Chaos MP pr0ner (result = SA)
  • Chaos stole from stessier (result = BB)
  Temple
  • Unagi MP pr0ner (result = null, MP stolen by Lagom)
  • Unagi trailed pr0ner
  • Unagi trailed Remus
  • Unagi stole from pr0ner (result = $13,MitMe,FAK(2),DiT,MP(3) )
  • Unagi stole from Remus (result = null)
  • Austin trailed triggercut
  • Austin trailed triggercut
  • Austin trailed pr0ner
  • triggercut DiT pr0ner (result = null, DiT stolen by Lagom)

****************************************

[stessier]

Why the FAK wasn't used as a cheap MP, I don't know - it would have showed Austin as Treasurer, Paul as Treasurer, and Myself as Treasurer.

Cause everything kept getting stolen...

Once we figured that out, it only made sense to stick with only buying BB's.

[Chaosraven]

Did my initial "budget" get thrown out there?

[LordMortis]

Cause everything kept getting stolen...

Once we figured that out, it only made sense to stick with only buying BB's.

I was shocked that after I published all of the mistakes I made on the first night that everyone wanted to repeat them day after day.

[stessier]

Did my initial "budget" get thrown out there?

I haven't seen anything that said how you wanted the funds distributed.

[Chaosraven]

Did my initial "budget" get thrown out there?

I haven't seen anything that said how you wanted the funds distributed.

Spoiler:

This is now the Assessment Period of Monday Morning-- the time for spreading the wealth.

Headquarters has assigned your team to Budget Tier #3. Based on the published schedule and your current population, this means you have 72 credits to retain or disburse however you wish.

(12 people times 10 = 120. Tier 3 is 60% of max. 120 times .6 = 72).

You may allocate funds by sending me a PM. The PM must consist of a list of recipients and the amount you wish to dole out. Recipients may be either names or roles. For example, you might say:

To Alexis, 20
To our Cryptographer, 10
To our Master of Disguise, 12
To Daniel, 37

A small, random premium will be added to the amounts you specify, and then I will disburse the total to each recipient. Any funds you do not allocate to others go into your own account. (There is no "team account").

Could I designate "X credits" to each "Secret Agent" so the Good Guy Villagers types get X+random?

Ok then, if I am Treasurer and not spoofy:

chaosraven - 32

Secret Agent 09 - 10
Secret Agent 13 - 10
Secret Agent 14 - 10
Secret Agent 15 - 10

I've doubled the allocation (multiplier = 20 instead of 10.) Do you want to double these values uniformly xor rethink?

In that event,

chaosraven - 64

Secret Agent 08 - 10
Secret Agent 09 - 10
Secret Agent 10 - 10
Secret Agent 11 - 10
Secret Agent 12 - 10
Secret Agent 13 - 10
Secret Agent 14 - 10
Secret Agent 15 - 10

Where's my money?

((looks around))

Then *I*m the Dec-uh...

[stessier]

I just got to the part on the Spoiler board where they started MitMe'ing me and Theo. Funny stuff.

[stessier]

Chaos - why'd you give all the money to the Secret Agents and nothing to the Specials? What was the plan?

[Chaosraven]

Chaos - why'd you give all the money to the Secret Agents and nothing to the Specials? What was the plan?

#1 - All Secret Agents would have access to a BB
#2 - all decoys would know they were decoys by receiving funds
#3 - specials already have an ability without funding.
#4 - All Secret Agents would know I was the Treasurer when I stepped out and announced the Disbursement.
#5 - Makes the SAs empowered, involved, and interested (hopefully to spark activity and coordination)

Whether a collective of SA step forward or simply could attest to my First Day Treasurer or any attempt to coordinate the SAs as an ensemble... meh, didn't matter, I was the fake and the Treasurers seemed to hoard the stuff.

[stessier]

A couple things to note:
1. I am tickled that stessier's attempt to monitor someone mucking with his messages includes simply saying which number message this is. He's got so many other great ideas, I don't know where this dud came from.

2. I removed the message where Theohall tells stessier who he plans to scans. Recall: stessier thinks that Theohall is a Secret Agent, and clearly never asked for this information.

3. Theohall has set up a 'PEK code', "start each PEK with a sentence containing the same number of syllables as players currently alive" I didn't need to tweak anything in this message, because "four" and "three" are both single syllable words

My only thinking was the more you had to consistently change, the harder it would be and the more likely you were to slip up. I knew you could change the count just as easily as anything else.

[Grundbegriff]

Chaos - why'd you give all the money to the Secret Agents and nothing to the Specials? What was the plan?

#1 - All Secret Agents would have access to a BB
#2 - all decoys would know they were decoys by receiving funds
#3 - specials already have an ability without funding.
#4 - All Secret Agents would know I was the Treasurer when I stepped out and announced the Disbursement.
#5 - Makes the SAs empowered, involved, and interested (hopefully to spark activity and coordination)

Yours was a smart approach.

[theohall]

Theo -

I'm curious. Did it really take you as long as it seemed to accept I couldn't be a Templar, or was some of it just for show?

And why were you upset that I was making sure we knew where all the roles went? You clearly understood that the Temple would learn a lot from a CCC. The only way the Wall could counter that was to keep careful track of the roles ourselves so we could see what happened. I thought it was pretty clear why we had to do it, but pr0ner seemed upset by it as well, so maybe I was missing something.

At first, I wasn't really sure, but felt continuing the charade - no matter how stupid I appeared - would keep me off the Temple's radar while I could vote for whomever I actually felt was the bad guy.

I didn't get the CCC thing until well after that first one happened. My initial impression was it wouldn't re-assign only known roles and would be a truly random thing. Mis-read the rules and it took my idiot brain awhile to understand how much power CCC's gave the Temple. After learning this, continuing this game was mostly going through the motions - since the only private involvement ever was via those PEKs you sent. The one mechanic to correct the CCC power, as mentioned previously, make the CCC re-assisgnment truly random. Even better - if a CCC happens - all Wall roles get randomly re-assigned - not just the "known" roles. Then the Temple has to figure it out all over again seeing as they've just gotten stronger by adding a member who can convene (PM), they shouldn't be given the greater advantage of known non-roles, which is what CCC's did.