WWL: Chapter 1 - Friday [day] - Stessier: the final siesta

[stessier]

Grund's silence does not bother me currently. I take much the same approach to him as Unagi does - time span. I will admit to being a bit Grundshy after the "Get Smart" game so would likely vote Grund before someone else if all else being equal at the end game.

If only to spread out the folks who get top brag about tricking me.

[stessier]

Wow there are a lot of dead people talking to each other early on. All the people left alive said very little on Day 1 (myself included).

[stessier]

Did you not see my suspicion list? I am perplexed by your lack of reading skills.. I spelled out and the results will point out to exactly what I have been saying all along, I am innocent. If you ignore Unagi's suspicious behavior what else can I tell you. You have to see with your own eyes. I feel confident that my dear Remus sees Unagi's behavior for what it is, but what else are you looking for? There is nothing else I can say. It's his word against mine, and you will find out with the results that he is barking up the wrong tree.

That is the most suspicious thing you have said all game in my eyes.

I don't get it Remus.

He's about to die.

If he dies Wolf (as I expect) anything he says up there is meaningless.
If he dies Human (as you expect) anything he says up there is meaningfull.

I really don't understand your angle of attack right now. Any chance you care to explain that, at some point (I also, seriously, don't undertsand what you found 'empty' in my comment to tru1cy a while back)

I disagree with both comments regarding him. If he dies as human then he would have no reason to say anything that implies trust in me - even the Seer has no info yet. If he dies as wolf then he might express some level of trust in me to hope I do not place that final vote. Thus why it looks suspicious. It is not the reflection on me but rather what it make me think about him that is the issue.

as for the "whole lot of nothing" comments, they are simply that. You seem to have made a whole lot of nothing out of tru1cy's comment then again regarding Newcastle's vote. You tried to tie both action into Bubbles yet neither really seemed tied in to me.

[stessier]

as for the "whole lot of nothing" comments, they are simply that. You seem to have made a whole lot of nothing out of tru1cy's comment then again regarding Newcastle's vote. You tried to tie both action into Bubbles yet neither really seemed tied in to me.

You misread my comment on Tru1cy then.

(although, you are correct - in that I think there is a Newcastle / Mr Bubbles connection)


My comment on Tru1cy was simply that he came in and said that he saw nothing had changed, and so had no reason to remove his vote. Not a single comment on the Mr Bubbles (or the Unagi, depending on how you see it) thing. I wasn't directly trying to accuse tru1cy, so much as I found his comment - lacking...

Although -- if Mr Bubbles does indeed turn up wolf, I would look back at that moment again.

[Lassr]

I'm in no hurry. I'm off work until Tuesday.

[stessier]

You , Remus, think I'm a wolf, yet you go with my lynch target.

Someone please scan Remus. Or me

2 posts later.

I never understood someone asking to be scanned after leading a unsuccessful lynch.

I mean I am not ragging on you by any stretch, he seemed guilty to me as well. But...

I cannot forsee a time when the wolves would kill you tonight. If the seer does scan you and someone leads a train to kill you tomorrow why would he speak up? it would be a waste of a scan. Now if we think the wolves and the villagers will let you live 2 or so days, then yeah you are a solid scan target. Much like if he thinks you are a wolf.

My opinion is, unless you are playing a way too out there wolf, you probably are a villager who led the charge wrongly. We've all done it. It's day one, I wont exactly be burying you tomorrow for it... But... Who voted, who didnt vote and who did what today now becomes of much more importance and after the night kill we should all have a lot more to work with.

[stessier]

I don't know if it was an attempt to frame me or a shot to try and take out the Seer scan on the assumption that the Seer would follow Unagi's advice and scan one of us. Or they thought he was the Seer. Or they thought it would cause confusion.

So did he say this because he wanted cover because both wolves were on the vote, or just because he wanted cover period? And Remus being in on the Unagi choice is just odd.

[stessier]

The move is good if Unagi got scanned, otherwise it's a bad move, period.

My guess is it was used as misdirection to make certain people look guiltier than others.

I dont have any real suspects yet today, but until fridayish, I wont be able to really sit down, reread day one and see if I can find any breadcrumbs. I might be able to get it done now, but I should probably run errands before I do it... sucks to be me, lol.


Thoughts in nor particular order.

I've covered why I thin Unagi was a bad play... my guess is they were trying to eliminate potential seer scans or set someone else up. We could look at Who Unagi thought was evil besides bubbles and see if he hit a nerve, but I wouldn't count that for much ATM (at the moment, not arse to mouth). Then again, they could have done it to cause confusion and bewilderment about the choice.

Grunds quietness isnt good, but if he has a legitimate reason I wont lynch him yet, he's a day 3er..ish.

I am always a fan of the one on, one off mentality for wolf voting on day one. There isnt enough people to merit all the votes off, but it could have happened. I dont know if they would put both on... it's going to link them in some way. But who knows, maybe they wanted him the hell gone. Barring them being bad wolves, I wouldnt assume that route yet tho.

I will wait for Newcastle to analyse "Why Unagi" and save me the trouble. I also will be holding off on my vote until grund resurfaces.

I'll post some kind of threat matrix later... There is no rush... Unless the seer comes out with 2 wolf scans we got some talking to do today.

[stessier]

I don't know if it was an attempt to frame me

interesting.

Unagi's last act was to request that either he or I be scanned. Sort of an accusation. I didn't say it was a strong attempt but still could have been. Could have been any of the reasons I listed, including the ones you left off the quote.

here's the reason I left just that part of your post:

When Unagi died I found it odd that the wolves would kill someone that had a target on their head or was just so wrong about an innocent player.
Why? first thought was it obviously was an attempt at a frame.
So who is the obvious frame I asked:
I looked back and when you kept saying to Unagi you saw Nothing that made you suspect Mr. Bubbles I kept thinking "really?" Because me as an innocent villager sure began thinking Mr. Bubbles was getting really defensive about getting lynched to be just an everyday villager. I began to suspect he was a wolf more and more. The fact that you said you saw nothing when I did made me think you knew something I didn't. Then I thought well I wouldn't put it past Wolf Remus to frame himself.

Then you mention the frame job as the first thought in your post. It just made me go Hmmmm.

[stessier]

Lassr took the lead. What? Yes, that's right. Lassr stepped up with an accusation. Then, despite his customary caution, Lassr joined the person he was accusing. I'm having trouble making sense of this either on the merits or on the basis of knowing Lassr's ways, and that's why he's my top suspect.

one problem, I NEVER would have killed Unagi last night as a wolf (as I could see no hints that he was the seer).

I like some of your other thoughts, especially on tru1cy.
Lagom Lite is new but I remember him playing a good game in his first attempt so I'm not sure if he'd go after Unagi as a wolf.

Killing Unagi seems like a newbie move but too many veterans here so I'm trying to figure out the reason behind it.

Doth though protest too much?

[stessier]

Originally, I thought it likely that both wolves were in there because of how fast the vote went. With the death of Unagi, it seems far more likely to me that the wolves split their vote. That's why I included the second group in my subsequent post

Group 1: Lassr, Lagom, Semaj, theohall, Remus
Group 2: tru1cy, stessier, Newcastle, Grund

From my point of view, I have the best chance of finding a wolf by voting for someone in my group.

right now my gut says they are both in group 2 and I'm specifically looking at tru1cy and Newcastle.

[stessier]

Originally, I thought it likely that both wolves were in there because of how fast the vote went. With the death of Unagi, it seems far more likely to me that the wolves split their vote. That's why I included the second group in my subsequent post

Group 1: Lassr, Lagom, Semaj, theohall, Remus
Group 2: tru1cy, stessier, Newcastle, Grund

From my point of view, I have the best chance of finding a wolf by voting for someone in my group.

right now my gut says they are both in group 2 and I'm specifically looking at tru1cy and Newcastle.

It does, eh? Your gut thinks that no Wolf voted against Bubbles?

 Lassr 
 

Newcastle and tru1cy are the ones that feel a little off to me, they just happen to be ones that did not vote for Bubbles. So I'm not picking them because they are in group 2, I'm picking them because that's what my gut says, they just happen to be in group 2.

Lagom still high on my list also, so if it makes you feel better, tru1cy and Lagom then Newcastle...

[stessier]

I think killing Unagi was a blunder. His aggression toward Bubbles had made Unagi a natural target for today's vengeance. Instead of leaving him to the crowd, our nefarious foes took him out.

If not tactical, it's an outright error.
If tactical, it's still highly questionable.

wouldn't it be perfect though if you are a wolf and you killed Unagi just so you could use the "killing Unagi is a blunder" defense.

Just a thought for later.

[stessier]

 Newcastle 
 


I keep flip flopping on Newcastle, he keeps dwelling on the Unagi kill in numerous posts and lists several possible reasons for Unagi's death, it's just feels as if he's justifying why him and his partner killed him.

[Lassr]

stessier's game has seemed different. Like he's not as involved as past games <except for now when he quotes posts from earlier>
I recall numerous wolves (including myself) that used the last few days to pile up info from quotes over the length of the game to try to make them look like they are helping the village find the last wolf.

tru1cy- first day was odd for him and then he seemed to go back to normal self after we made note of his first day

semaj- I really don't know. I get no evil vibe from him which is odd in itself since he always seems evil. So could an evil semaj give off an non-evil vibe, that would be too funny...

Grund- I've flip flopped back and forth with him. But I still think he must die. If we let him live and he's a wolf...

lassr-villager but obviously can't prove it. Grund early in the game kept naming me as wolf and hints at it still which doesn't help me think Grund is a villager, but maybe he is just miscalculating.

[stessier]

Meanwhile, Lassr faces a ripe opportunity to endorse either the action against theohall or the action against me. Instead, he strikes out on a third path. Why? If he's a Wolf, then Lassr knows that seeming too eager to bring about the close of day by hopping on a passing wave is a notorious tell. He'd want to avoid that tell. (Right, Newcastle?)

Doesn't matter what I do, you'll find something wolfish about it. I vote for you or theohall, you'll say look at the wolf trying to get someone lynched.

Vote staying on Newcastle for now.

Check that out. Lassr is so worried about Grund calling him a wolf that he allows it to dictate his actions.

[stessier]

Grund being could be a ruse to get us to lynch a innocent

Grund being what?

[stessier]

And that brings us to yesterday, which I'll go through in a bit.

stessier's game has seemed different. Like he's not as involved as past games <except for now when he quotes posts from earlier>
I recall numerous wolves (including myself) that used the last few days to pile up info from quotes over the length of the game to try to make them look like they are helping the village find the last wolf.

Smooth.

Just out of curiosity, what should I be doing now if not looking for the Wolf?

[tru1cy]

Grund being could be a ruse to get us to lynch a innocent

Grund being what?

Keep catching up

[stessier]

Grund being could be a ruse to get us to lynch a innocent

Grund being what?

Keep catching up

What do you mean? I caught up and never saw what you meant.

[tru1cy]

Grund being could be a ruse to get us to lynch a innocent

Grund being what?

Keep catching up

What do you mean? I caught up and never saw what you meant.

There is a 3. I can see the WWs gambling on the villagers being antsy about Grund being alive and use him as red herring. A wasted lynch gets them one step closer to winning

[Lassr]

And that brings us to yesterday, which I'll go through in a bit.

stessier's game has seemed different. Like he's not as involved as past games <except for now when he quotes posts from earlier>
I recall numerous wolves (including myself) that used the last few days to pile up info from quotes over the length of the game to try to make them look like they are helping the village find the last wolf.

Smooth.

Just out of curiosity, what should I be doing now if not looking for the Wolf?

You should be looking for the last wolf I was just commenting on the method being used.

[Semaj]

Semaj: Are you sure you're going to be able to pick the Werewolf from among any two of {Lassr, stessier, tru1cy}? If you fail, we lose.

I expect due to being the least evil looking, which may be the strangest thing I have ever heard come out of my mouth, to be a kill tonight after the lynch.

But yeah, I like my chances...

[Semaj]

the block is great if people live...

Not so much if they can say: Well 2 of the people I scanned got killed at night.

Thusly, I am not a horrible scan, no smart werewolf kills me at night, I do such a phenomenal job of lynching myself during the days.

Still the seer should scan whom he or she wants, not whom we tell them to. Hopefully they make smart moves and calls, the rest of us should focus on trying to find werewolves, not arguing over what the seer should do.

The block is also significantly stronger in this version because of the lack of conversion. Still I prefer the seer scans and finds werewolves on consecutive nights, it makes our job o so much easier.

And yet here you are.

Yeah I want this on record

[Semaj]

At this point, unless we decide not to lynch Grund, I see no point in announcing who I will vote for tomorrow if I make it... It allows the wolf the ability to pick and choose who they think gives them the best chance of winning.

[Grundbegriff]

Reading....

[Grundbegriff]

Typing....

[Grundbegriff]

I think I see a way for our Village to prevail in this thorny situation.

Let's start with this premise:

P: Any Villager who wakes up tomorrow will have to vote against one of the two remaining players. If I'm one of those players tomorrow, then the other Villager will say this to himself: "Grundbegriff is alive on the final day. That only happens if he's evil. Therefore, I have to vote against Grundbegriff." Then he'll vote against me, the Wolf will jump on the vote, and the Werewolves will win the game.

Am I mistaken about this? I don't think so. And this means that there's a sure two-step path to Werewolf Victory: (1) Keep me alive today, and (2) Keep me alive tonight.

Therefore, short of actually killing the Wolf today, the only hope we have of achieving victory is to kill me today so that the Wolf cannot set up that scenario.

The cost of my sacrifice, of course, is that the Wolf will kill another human tonight. Come dawn, each of the remaining two humans will face a Lady|Tiger scenario. There will be two humans and one Wolf.

I requested this delay because I wanted to reread the thread and see whether I could improve the odds for the final two survivors. So here's my impression after having studied the thread in light of our knowledge of Remus and Newcastle.

First: I pressed Lassr intermittently throughout the game in an attempt to break his composure in some small way that might yield a tell. He answered reasonably each time. That might make me think he's human if it weren't for the fact that we went through this loop once before and he turned out to be evil. In the early days, Lassr would slip when evil; by now, he's a polished performer and presents an unbreakable front.

Even so, I think Lassr is human for a separate reason: the way he rode Remus after the revelation that Unagi had been killed. It's not just that he took on Remus; Remus's partner might well do that. But what persuades me is the way Lassr did this: he appealed to his growing sense of Bubbles's guilt --a sense I shared-- and he pointed out that Remus lacked that sense. Then Lassr called a lot of attention to the prospect that Remus had framed himself. On the whole, Remus wasn't garnering much attention at that point, and it would've been prudent for a Remus-partner to coast. But Lassr mounted a genuine and persuasive argument-- persuasive enough, it seems, that Newcastle decided to scan Remus in light of Unagi's plea and Lassr's analysis of it.

So I'm projecting that Lassr is human.

Second: I thought it was odd that stessier seemed atypically cranky and remote in the midgame. But I'm not sure I gauged that correctly. Re-reading his full contribution, he looks pretty stessieresque in the early game. He's hard to read, unless he pokes the innocents, so I'm not confident about this. But there is a factor that makes me think stessier is human: his analysis of the vote, in which he notices that because he and Remus remained constant in the voting tracks that stessier had defined, it must be the case either that two wolves voted against Bubbles or that two voted against theohall. (Bullet point #3 in this post).

What impresses me there is that stessier's actually doing a good bit of deductive analysis as if the elbow grease is really meant to yield a clue. He doesn't seem to be going through the motions. Of course, that could all be window dressing. Even so, I think I recognize this stessier-inquiry-mode as genuine, and I seem to recall seeing him do this when he was really on the lookout for evildoers.

So I'm projecting that stessier is human.

That leaves tru1cy and Semaj.

Third: Initially I made a big deal of the fact that tru1cy had posted slightly more than normal. And it's true that tru1cy has been somewhat more engaged in this game than is typical. (And that's a good thing, regardless of alignment. tru1cy is a valuable veteran who brings his own thing to the game.) My impression was sincere, but I overemphasized it for effect to see whether anyone else would find it interesting, and to see whether tru1cy would change under pressure. (He didn't.) Now that I've reread the thread more carefully, it seems to me that tru1cy wasn't actually acting all that strangely; in each case, he explains himself adequately. In no case does he do anything that looks even remotely synchronized with Remus.

I can't point to a concrete piece of evidence that tilts me in this case; tru1cy is a man of few words.

But I think he's probably human.

Fourth: I think Semaj is the other werewolf.

There's the fact that he expressed suspicion about The Meal, who isn't even playing the game. I know that when I'm innocent, I pay a lot of attention to who the other players are; however, to an evildoer, they're just boxes on the to-do list.

There's the huge superabundance of participation. I hadn't realized along the way just how much Semaj was posting. But rereading the thread makes it clear that he is outdoing himself when it comes to volume of posting.

Then there's the quality of all that material: it's long on words but short on substance. For example, in one case he wrote a summary of the game up to that point. But it wasn't just a summary: he paraphrased each post by every player into a single short sentence and then posted the whole list without meaningfully making use of all that stuff.

There's also his major overreaction to one of my arguments against theohall.

Likewise, it seemed that every time there was a lag or delay, he cropped up to post a roster of suspects or threat matrix, as if to expedite the decision at hand.

I'm projecting that Semaj is the other Wolf.

Now, I run a risk here. If I'm wrong the Wolf will use my words to try manipulating one of the two survivors tomorrow. That wouldn't be as bad as Remuscide, but it would be unfortunate. So I'm posting all of this because I think we should discuss it now, while we know that 4 out of 5 discussants are actually looking for the truth.

(The downside of the discussion is that the Wolf will be able to learn something about who leans which way and how heavily. But that's not much of a downside, since he stands to eliminate two of the four humans anyhow. The two survivors tomorrow will reassess things anyhow.)

If I'm right about Semaj, and if there's a consensus that he's the other Wolf, we can win outright just by killing him. But if discussion reveals significant disagreement among us, then I counsel that you kill me after the discussion in order to prevent scenario P (above) from unfolding.

[Lassr]

semaj- I really don't know. I get no evil vibe from him which is odd in itself since he always seems evil. So could an evil semaj give off an non-evil vibe, that would be too funny...

now that you've said it, this is why I said this. I think he is being more careful of what he says because he can't get lynched in this game. The other games he was free with his words and it got him in trouble. He's more reserved in this game.

My choices for tomorrow were going to be stessier or semaj. Those are my guesses. If it is tru1cy then congrats to him for making it to the end by posting a little more.

After I saw what Grund was doing with his fake seer move it made me think Grund was innocent. I could not picture a Wolf doing this when his partner was already revealed. It would just put a larger bulls-eye on his head. Yet if I voted semaj or stessier today and he's a villager well I'd have some real thinking to do tomorrow if Grund lived.

Grund, your history in these games really is a pain in the ass to the village!

[Lassr]

First: I pressed Lassr intermittently throughout the game in an attempt to break his composure in some small way that might yield a tell. He answered reasonably each time. That might make me think he's human if it weren't for the fact that we went through this loop once before and he turned out to be evil. In the early days, Lassr would slip when evil; by now, he's a polished performer and presents an unbreakable front.

Even so, I think Lassr is human for a separate reason: the way he rode Remus after the revelation that Unagi had been killed. It's not just that he took on Remus; Remus's partner might well do that. But what persuades me is the way Lassr did this: he appealed to his growing sense of Bubbles's guilt --a sense I shared-- and he pointed out that Remus lacked that sense. Then Lassr called a lot of attention to the prospect that Remus had framed himself. On the whole, Remus wasn't garnering much attention at that point, and it would've been prudent for a Remus-partner to coast. But Lassr mounted a genuine and persuasive argument-- persuasive enough, it seems, that Newcastle decided to scan Remus in light of Unagi's plea and Lassr's analysis of it.

I need to print this out and frame it.

[Lassr]

oh, and I could totally picture Grund kissing up to me with that post in order to manipulate me again. Will not work though.

[Grundbegriff]

the way he rode Remus

I need to print this out and frame it.

Really? Disturbing!

[Semaj]

Being more careful?

Seriously?

Well prolly a little... More like I'd like to do more than read the spoilers after day 1... but the only thing I haven't done this game is spend all day and night on the boards and post a gazillion times. If that makes me a wolf.. bah humbug.

Not sure what grunds thing is, but if you really think I am the wolf because I saw no point to tipping my hand to the woves fine...

if thats the case, test me.. not like I didnt request to be scanned a few bajillion times by now.. Still...

lets go through the possible scenarios where I am not the wolf... because its fun.

1) Grund is the wolf... Shouldnt be a problem, we'll be killing him today or tomorrow.
2) Lassr is the wolf - Dont think he is a wolf, said this for about... 4 days now... said if he is playing one bravo to him.
3) Stessier is the wolf - I am scarily right... Screw you all, damn hippies. He's pretty much been all over my evil list for a day and a half now... Feel free to check my damn threat matrix sometime.
4) Tru1cy is the wolf - well I've had him on my list for a while now as well... Didnt like how he ended the day... He's the only one I'd debate voting for over stessier.

As such I've announced my votes... gee I wonder who the wolves will pick.

Still Lets compare and contrast why I think they are evil, in case the above wasnt enough....

1) Grund - fake seer gambit, "1 sly player" got Lagom killed... Would thoroughly enjoy screwing with us...
2) Lassr - Bah... Lassr is playing solid... hate him for it.
3) Stessier - he's been throwing accusations at EVERYONE... trying to find a few things to stick for when he is the last guy with 2 others. My guess is he is trying to get the two most likely to vote for each other and him. Which this decision process makes infinitely easier. The reason I saw no point to tipping my damn hand. It's not the way he's played, its the way he's done certain things.. .The trying to make everyone else look evil... The way he defended his own wolf claims... Makes me think he is the one, something you said yesterday, but when I dont feel the need to announce this (Although I did today.. go look) suddenly I am the wolf... for not saying everything I think and feel? Pshah
4) Tru1cy - Like I said before.. Not a fan of his voting or posting habits, or how he has said almost nothing about anyone. Still it's the way Tru1cy plays...

I'm amazed you just now are noticing the meal comment... And how this is suddenly a change from what I normally do? If anything, it's been my standard MO for almost every game I play. I get names and rules wrong. it's a skill of not really caring that shines through. I dont want to hear people argue rules for 3 days, I wanna try and find werewolves.

As for my superabundance of posting... I'm confuzzled... Any more posting than you do? Do I usually not post? How is this different than normal? If anything I'm posting less than most games... Not a lot less, but well, i guess if you are digging around searching for anything, this will do.

Tell ya what... You wanna lose the game, go with this, i'm the big bad werewolf. I'm down... We can call it grundacide, it'll rock.

However, lets look at a previous game and see why James Stopped trying to do things...

James was the only proven good, who couldn't be killed... He had the other evilder on him "People we should test today" list and Grund on his "Dont kill him" list.. then one of the other good guys decided to poison grund, who responded in kind, the third good guy jumped on the pile and allowed the bad guy to poison the last good guy and win the game for his team.

Meaning, Even when I am a proven, people don't really listen to what I have to say as much as just glance through it looking for screwups...

So yeah, I give you all a list of who I think is evil and why... But to expect me to spend 3 hours in massive detail calculating every possible outcome, not gonna happen anymore...

[Grundbegriff]

Being more careful?

Seriously?

Well prolly a little... More like I'd like to do more than read the spoilers after day 1... but the only thing I haven't done this game is spend all day and night on the boards and post a gazillion times. If that makes me a wolf.. bah humbug.

Not sure what grunds thing is, but if you really think I am the wolf because I saw no point to tipping my hand to the woves fine...

if thats the case, test me.. not like I didnt request to be scanned a few bajillion times by now.. Still...

lets go through the possible scenarios where I am not the wolf... because its fun.

1) Grund is the wolf... Shouldnt be a problem, we'll be killing him today or tomorrow.
2) Lassr is the wolf - Dont think he is a wolf, said this for about... 4 days now... said if he is playing one bravo to him.
3) Stessier is the wolf - I am scarily right... Screw you all, damn hippies. He's pretty much been all over my evil list for a day and a half now... Feel free to check my damn threat matrix sometime.
4) Tru1cy is the wolf - well I've had him on my list for a while now as well... Didnt like how he ended the day... He's the only one I'd debate voting for over stessier.

As such I've announced my votes... gee I wonder who the wolves will pick.

Still Lets compare and contrast why I think they are evil, in case the above wasnt enough....

1) Grund - fake seer gambit, "1 sly player" got Lagom killed... Would thoroughly enjoy screwing with us...
2) Lassr - Bah... Lassr is playing solid... hate him for it.
3) Stessier - he's been throwing accusations at EVERYONE... trying to find a few things to stick for when he is the last guy with 2 others. My guess is he is trying to get the two most likely to vote for each other and him. Which this decision process makes infinitely easier. The reason I saw no point to tipping my damn hand. It's not the way he's played, its the way he's done certain things.. .The trying to make everyone else look evil... The way he defended his own wolf claims... Makes me think he is the one, something you said yesterday, but when I dont feel the need to announce this (Although I did today.. go look) suddenly I am the wolf... for not saying everything I think and feel? Pshah
4) Tru1cy - Like I said before.. Not a fan of his voting or posting habits, or how he has said almost nothing about anyone. Still it's the way Tru1cy plays...

I'm amazed you just now are noticing the meal comment... And how this is suddenly a change from what I normally do? If anything, it's been my standard MO for almost every game I play. I get names and rules wrong. it's a skill of not really caring that shines through. I dont want to hear people argue rules for 3 days, I wanna try and find werewolves.

As for my superabundance of posting... I'm confuzzled... Any more posting than you do? Do I usually not post? How is this different than normal? If anything I'm posting less than most games... Not a lot less, but well, i guess if you are digging around searching for anything, this will do.

Tell ya what... You wanna lose the game, go with this, i'm the big bad werewolf. I'm down... We can call it grundacide, it'll rock.

However, lets look at a previous game and see why James Stopped trying to do things...

James was the only proven good, who couldn't be killed... He had the other evilder on him "People we should test today" list and Grund on his "Dont kill him" list.. then one of the other good guys decided to poison grund, who responded in kind, the third good guy jumped on the pile and allowed the bad guy to poison the last good guy and win the game for his team.

Meaning, Even when I am a proven, people don't really listen to what I have to say as much as just glance through it looking for screwups...

So yeah, I give you all a list of who I think is evil and why... But to expect me to spend 3 hours in massive detail calculating every possible outcome, not gonna happen anymore...

Fascinating

[tru1cy]

Grund makes some sense.. The question is can I vote for Semaj? I think I can at this point

[Grundbegriff]

Grund makes some sense.. The question is can I vote for Semaj? I think I can at this point

It's not like you to trust me so readily.

[Semaj]

Grund makes some sense.. The question is can I vote for Semaj? I think I can at this point

Then the village loses... good job.

[Semaj]

So are we taking a hiatus for the weekend?

[Grundbegriff]

Grund makes some sense.. The question is can I vote for Semaj? I think I can at this point

Then the village loses... good job.

Why would a vote against you mean that the village loses?

If it's OK for me to die as a human today, isn't it equally OK for you to die as a human today?

[Semaj]

Yup, but as you said, the werewolves win if you dont die.

P: Any Villager who wakes up tomorrow will have to vote against one of the two remaining players. If I'm one of those players tomorrow, then the other Villager will say this to himself: "Grundbegriff is alive on the final day. That only happens if he's evil. Therefore, I have to vote against Grundbegriff." Then he'll vote against me, the Wolf will jump on the vote, and the Werewolves will win the game.

Am I mistaken about this? I don't think so. And this means that there's a sure two-step path to Werewolf Victory: (1) Keep me alive today, and (2) Keep me alive tonight.

So yes you are correct. Because most of us assume you are a wolf if you make it to the final day, there is nothing surprising about this, rumor has it you are pretty darn good at this game.

For not quite the same reason, the wolves rarely kill me. I'm one of those enigmas wrapped in a puzzle. I always seem wolfish, and when I don't, I seem more wolfish. Combined with my lack of attention to detail, it makes me phenomenally easy to convince others to lynch without doing all the dirty work. You know this is sadly true. Good or evil, I have this tendency to argue way too much. It usually ends up with a noose around my neck and a few people chuckling in the background.

Most of this game, I have had Stessier near my top baddies and once Tru1cy ended day 2, he became one of my top baddies as well, along with you grund. Never said you were a wolf, said if you are too dangerous to keep around, in case you are a wolf. You agree with this and you know it's day 4. Now ask yourself something. And try hard to think of it this way. Imagine I actually am a villager, hope of all hopes. I know, crazy right? Well if I am a villager and in theory you are one.. this narrows down our wolf searching pool. Now look back at what I've said, who I have said it to, what they have done in response.

Now you tell me... who do you think I would be guessing is a wolf and why?

Now think some more. If I am not the wolf, based on my viewpoint, who do you think really is the final wolf? Me... I have a decent idea, which is why I like my chances of picking correctly in that coin flip tomorrow... Like I said though, this only works if you try looking at it from my perspective.