Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

[redrun]

If the Ring switches control either the player captured that night had it or the bearer passed it to someone else. Assuming the bearer is smart enough not to pass it willy nilly then we would know that the player captured has the ring. We would need to free them and they would then need to pass the thing to keep it away from the Servants.

-- Why do they need to pass the ring? From what I'm reading, it's not that important, UNTIL JOURNEY 7, if Frodo is found out and keeps the ring. He can't be corrupted. He can't be killed, save by being appointed as scout. He can be captured again and again. We 'kick orc butt' and free him. The Urik-Hai wastes his turn. The Witch King knows one person not to try to corrupt. OK, problem - if we lose the remaining free people - but if the Urik-Hai is wasting his time recapuring the same hobbit, and we're not sending out scouts - then it's going to be difficult for the the Witch King to take out all the free people. All we then need is another hobbit/gollum to pass the ring to on chapter 7 (insert magic wave of hand that somehow lets Frodo know who it's safe to pass the ring to in turn 7).

-- What am I missing?

[Grundbegriff]

Who is expendable?

3.Expendable would be ... Gol....

Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that Gol has some part to play yet, for good or ill before this is over.

[Chaosraven]

1 other possibility on WK's corruption is that Aragorn protected last night as well. The probability of that happening is pretty slim as both WK and Ar had to randomly select the same target, but should also be listed under possible outcomes. I think all of the other possibilities got covered.

Is there any reason Aragorn should NOT attempt protection?

I think the only way he shouldn't is on Journey Six, to leave options open for Journey Seven, if required.

I meant that Ar protected from conversion. It would be stupid of him not to attempt to protect someone last night.

Aragorn will know which actions he managed to disrupt, if any (kill, conversion, capture, theft). Aragorn will not disrupt an action that would otherwise fail (he will only kill Gollum while actually protecting a Ringbearer).

So Aragorn may potentially ALSO garner info by Protecting. Quite a bit, actually.

[Chaosraven]

If the Ring switches control either the player captured that night had it or the bearer passed it to someone else. Assuming the bearer is smart enough not to pass it willy nilly then we would know that the player captured has the ring. We would need to free them and they would then need to pass the thing to keep it away from the Servants.

-- Why do they need to pass the ring? From what I'm reading, it's not that important, UNTIL JOURNEY 7, if Frodo is found out and keeps the ring. He can't be corrupted. He can't be killed, save by being appointed as scout. He can be captured again and again. We 'kick orc butt' and free him. The Urik-Hai wastes his turn. The Witch King knows one person not to try to corrupt. OK, problem - if we lose the remaining free people - but if the Urik-Hai is wasting his time recapuring the same hobbit, and we're not sending out scouts - then it's going to be difficult for the the Witch King to take out all the free people. All we then need is another hobbit/gollum to pass the ring to on chapter 7 (insert magic wave of hand that somehow lets Frodo know who it's safe to pass the ring to in turn 7).

-- What am I missing?

Urukhai captures Frodo Journey Seven. Evil Wins as Chapter Seven begins

[Grundbegriff]

So Aragorn may potentially ALSO garner info by Protecting. Quite a bit, actually.

How very ranger-like. Another kudos to Lagom Lite.

[Chaosraven]

Aragorn will know which actions he managed to disrupt, if any (kill, conversion, capture, theft).

So on a Successful Protection, Aragorn learns what the TARGET is.

On a KILL, he knows they are Uncorrupted Free Folk
On a Conversion, he knows they are Uncorrupted Free Folk
On a Capture, he knows they are a Hobbit
On a Theft, he knows they Bear the Ring

[Arcanis]

1 other possibility on WK's corruption is that Aragorn protected last night as well. The probability of that happening is pretty slim as both WK and Ar had to randomly select the same target, but should also be listed under possible outcomes. I think all of the other possibilities got covered.

Is there any reason Aragorn should NOT attempt protection?

I think the only way he shouldn't is on Journey Six, to leave options open for Journey Seven, if required.

I meant that Ar protected from conversion. It would be stupid of him not to attempt to protect someone last night.

Aragorn will know which actions he managed to disrupt, if any (kill, conversion, capture, theft). Aragorn will not disrupt an action that would otherwise fail (he will only kill Gollum while actually protecting a Ringbearer).

So Aragorn may potentially ALSO garner info by Protecting. Quite a bit, actually.

I still think we have a disconnect here. I wasn't talking about information. Someone laid out the possibilities of conversion last night. They didn't mention the slim chance that Aragorn protected the target from WK's conversion. Though you do bring up a good point that Ar could gather a ton of information if his protections are successful.

Are you sure that he will only kill Gol if both target the ringbearer? I think irregardless of who has the ring if Gol attempts to steal from the person who Ar is protecting he gets shanked. Off to the first page to see.

[Chaosraven]

Aragorn will not disrupt an action that would otherwise fail (he will only kill Gollum while actually protecting a Ringbearer).

[Chaosraven]

Yeah, pretty sure

[stessier]

Who can prove himself?
Who can be emulated by Servants?
Who is expendable?
Is there a rational way to select a Scout?

1. Who can prove himself?
   
   Interestingly, only the Hobbits - but only to themselves. Well, they could prove themselves to anyone, but it would be a wee bit detrimental to their long term success.
   
   Hobbits can also be proved by being captured, but there they are confounded with Gollum (which is another aspect we have to discuss at some point). Gandalf would be convincing to whomever he scanned.
2. Who can be emulated by Servants?
   
   Gandalf can be emulated. Depending on how we classify Gollum, he can at the least be confusing.
3. Who is expendable?
   
   All Servants. Barring that, Gollum. After that, it gets tricky. Depends where we are in the Journey and what we thing our numbers are.
4. Is there a rational way to select a Scout?
   
   I don't think so. Maybe someone who brought a horse?

[Arcanis]

rules aren't clear to me.

LL- If Ar protects a non-ringbearing person and Gol attempts to search that person's stuff what happens?

edit: i missed the last line of Ar's description. Please ignore.

[Newcastle]

I don't hold grudges. I forgave (but didn't forget!) in the previous gamethread.

Depending on which free person bit the dust, we are potentially hosed.

and we forgive you as well...best way i figure, shouldnt hold grudges...nopers

though I found it funny that semaj died...premature semajulation, dying before ones time.

[Lagom Lite]

rules aren't clear to me.

LL- If Ar protects a non-ringbearing person and Gol attempts to search that person's stuff what happens?

edit: i missed the last line of Ar's description. Please ignore.

Will do.

Wait...

[Newcastle]

Candidates for clumsy framing of me would include any who haven't been in many games with me. I guess that would be redrun most of all, and perhaps Brendan.

The perennial question -- "Why so-and-so?" -- has several answers, but grudge-punishment is the one that comes first to mind in the case of Semaj. That's addressed above, but are there any other reasons someone would select Semaj as the first to be Uruked(-Hai)?

he didnt really say anythin in thread right (of substance that is)? Could it have been a random poke? Could it have been done for the "funnziez"? Not sure.

[redrun]

If the Ring switches control either the player captured that night had it or the bearer passed it to someone else. Assuming the bearer is smart enough not to pass it willy nilly then we would know that the player captured has the ring. We would need to free them and they would then need to pass the thing to keep it away from the Servants.

-- Why do they need to pass the ring? From what I'm reading, it's not that important, UNTIL JOURNEY 7, if Frodo is found out and keeps the ring. He can't be corrupted. He can't be killed, save by being appointed as scout. He can be captured again and again. We 'kick orc butt' and free him. The Urik-Hai wastes his turn. The Witch King knows one person not to try to corrupt. OK, problem - if we lose the remaining free people - but if the Urik-Hai is wasting his time recapuring the same hobbit, and we're not sending out scouts - then it's going to be difficult for the the Witch King to take out all the free people. All we then need is another hobbit/gollum to pass the ring to on chapter 7 (insert magic wave of hand that somehow lets Frodo know who it's safe to pass the ring to in turn 7).

-- What am I missing?

Urukhai captures Frodo Journey Seven. Evil Wins as Chapter Seven begins

-- True. Frodo, if known, needs to pass the ring during Chapter Six/Journey Seven. So, we need two additional ringbearers if Frodo has been captured at least once. Still, better then starting a game of pass_the_ring during an earlier Chapter/Journey.

[Chaosraven]

Candidates for clumsy framing of me would include any who haven't been in many games with me. I guess that would be redrun most of all, and perhaps Brendan.

The perennial question -- "Why so-and-so?" -- has several answers, but grudge-punishment is the one that comes first to mind in the case of Semaj. That's addressed above, but are there any other reasons someone would select Semaj as the first to be Uruked(-Hai)?

he didnt really say anythin in thread right (of substance that is)? Could it have been a random poke? Could it have been done for the "funnziez"? Not sure.

That's addressed above, but are there any other reasons someone would NOT select Semaj as the first to be Corrupted?

Semaj had a Single Post last Night

[Newcastle]

ok am a bit confused on the hunt orc & scout thing...are they the same thing...ie a lynch? Or does one only allow the release of captives? (ie hunt orc)...am still a little confused on that, and still getting up to speed on the nuaances of the game, sorrry for that. I read the rules, but the hunt/scout thing has me a wee bit perplexed.

[Newcastle]

that is weird. I looked at grund's post and saw that he hadn't included the abilities of the Uruk-hai or gollum, but now the Uruk powers are there and no edit is shown.

Grund did you edit that post?

Yes. "Edited by" only shows up if someone else has posted below the edited post. Nobody had done so yet.

personally i only care if the edit happens in a color/commentary post....if its an edit done in terms of service of the game or data....ie vote counts, or a "tools" list...i dont care...and obviously i think keeping those bits of data to their own unique post is paramount.

[Grundbegriff]

Frodo and Hobbit Ringbearers may pass the Ring on to any other player at any time during a Chapter, before voting is closed, by sending a PM to the Moderator specifying which player the Ring is to be given. The recipient of the Ring will be told the player name of the player who sent the Ring to him.

Interesting fillip.

[Newcastle]

that is weird. I looked at grund's post and saw that he hadn't included the abilities of the Uruk-hai or gollum, but now the Uruk powers are there and no edit is shown.

Grund did you edit that post?

He's always editing stuff. You have to post quickly after he does to lock him down so the edit's show up as being edits. (You know that edits don't show as edits until there's a post below it, right?)

He knows that now!

Yes, I frequently edit posts because I frequently decide on changes to format, to fix typos/errors, or to enhance usability and meaning. For example, I edited the tools post again to give Boromir alternating team colors!

/with flair
you go girl....uhm mean...
/flair off

you go grund...

[stessier]

that is weird. I looked at grund's post and saw that he hadn't included the abilities of the Uruk-hai or gollum, but now the Uruk powers are there and no edit is shown.

Grund did you edit that post?

Yes. "Edited by" only shows up if someone else has posted below the edited post. Nobody had done so yet.

personally i only care if the edit happens in a color/commentary post....if its an edit done in terms of service of the game or data....ie vote counts, or a "tools" list...i dont care...and obviously i think keeping those bits of data to their own unique post is paramount.

I don't see a "No Edit" rule. Sometimes it can come in quite handy for one thing or another. Brendan, what do you think?

[Grundbegriff]

• Who is expendable?

All Servants. Barring that, Gollum. After that, it gets tricky.

Arcanis said that too, but we shouldn't forget that passing the ring to Gollum on the final day is one of the victory scenarios for Team Good (not for Gollum). If all other Hobbits have been expended one way or another, Gollum might be the only valid recipient available to Frodo.

[Brendan]

I don't see a "No Edit" rule. Sometimes it can come in quite handy for one thing or another. Brendan, what do you think?

Heh. Evidently I'm the only one eagle-eyed enough to spot such shifts anyway, so what's it matter?

[Newcastle]

Considering the work he put in to match game to book I would assume the Urakhai would kill Boromir.

Spoiler alert!

wait, you mean to tell me boromir dies...damn you guys...i was just getting to that part in the book...next thing youre gonna tell me that the fellowship breaks up and frodo and sam have to travel to morodor on there own.

[stessier]

• Who is expendable?

All Servants. Barring that, Gollum. After that, it gets tricky.

Arcanis said that too, but we shouldn't forget that passing the ring to Gollum on the final day is one of the victory scenarios for Team Good (not for Gollum). If all other Hobbits have been expended one way or another, Gollum might be the only valid recipient available to Frodo.

I don't disagree. But I listed it as a hierarchy. In that context, do we burn Gollum who's winning condition is XOR with ours or a Hobbit/Free Person who can't win without us?

[Chaosraven]

I don't see a "No Edit" rule. Sometimes it can come in quite handy for one thing or another. Brendan, what do you think?

Heh. Evidently I'm the only one eagle-eyed enough to spot such shifts anyway, so what's it matter?

Sort of depends... if Grund does it, it's his usual activity.

Is it normal activity for someone else?

Kind of like my obsession with lurking players.

I will regularly send myself PMs with who is browsing and compare it to who is or isn't speaking within a timeframe.

[Chaosraven]

frodo and sam have to travel to morodor on there own.

For Unagi

[stessier]

I will regularly send myself PMs with who is browsing and compare it to who is or isn't speaking within a timeframe.

So then we can send Kenetickid as the Scout today?

[Brendan]

I will regularly send myself PMs with who is browsing and compare it to who is or isn't speaking within a timeframe.

Chaosraven, don't ever change.

I will be setting up an automatic refresh of this page.

[Chaosraven]

ok am a bit confused on the hunt orc & scout thing...are they the same thing...ie a lynch? Or does one only allow the release of captives? (ie hunt orc)...am still a little confused on that, and still getting up to speed on the nuaances of the game, sorrry for that. I read the rules, but the hunt/scout thing has me a wee bit perplexed.

If Captives > 0, group may Hunt Orc to relaease Captives, in PLACE of Scout(lynch)

Meaning if we spend the entire game releasing Captive Hobbits every Chapter, we don't actually Scout/Lynch anyone.

[Grundbegriff]

ok am a bit confused on the hunt orc & scout thing...are they the same thing...ie a lynch? Or does one only allow the release of captives? (ie hunt orc)...am still a little confused on that, and still getting up to speed on the nuaances of the game, sorrry for that. I read the rules, but the hunt/scout thing has me a wee bit perplexed.

String[] playerOptions = null;

if (someoneIsCaptive) {
playerOptions = {"tapScout()", "huntOrc()"};
} else {
playerOptions = {"tapScout()"};
}

[Chaosraven]

I will regularly send myself PMs with who is browsing and compare it to who is or isn't speaking within a timeframe.

So then we can send Kenetickid as the Scout today?

Hee hee hee

He's sitting right behind me on his laptop

[Remus West]

I will regularly send myself PMs with who is browsing and compare it to who is or isn't speaking within a timeframe.

Chaosraven, don't ever change.

I will be setting up an automatic refresh of this page.

You really want to mess with him hide pointless codes in your posts. Something that translates to "made you look" would probably be good but something that takes eleven posts to make that same statement and thus makes him do all the translations would really work best.

[Chaosraven]

I will regularly send myself PMs with who is browsing and compare it to who is or isn't speaking within a timeframe.

Chaosraven, don't ever change.

I will be setting up an automatic refresh of this page.

You really want to mess with him hide pointless codes in your posts. Something that translates to "made you look" would probably be good but something that takes eleven posts to make that same statement and thus makes him do all the translations would really work best.

Screw yOu, Remus.

----------------------

Arcanis, Chaosraven, redrun, Remus West, Scoop20906, tru1cy

It is currently Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:01 pm

[Newcastle]

With respect to "who would've killed Semaj?", while I'm sure old enmities can come into play, I think it's probably best if we just assume that it was random; there's not much of an opportunity to create tells in the opening moments.

actually i would think that last game probably had an influence in terms of influencing him as the kill candidate, the scenarios i see

1. It was grund (i kind of doubt it, though would be funny if grund did do such a thing)
2. An attempt at framing grund (person who is doing this has a fear of grund, or wants the spotlight on grund and hence away from them).
3. Wants people talking about the killing of semaj and possible people with motives, when the person who did has no direct/ties motives to wanting to kill Semaj (think team con from last game).
4. Possible person from team corp extracting revenge
5. It was fun just to knock him out on night 1.

So i am actually of the belief there is a reason why someone is knocked out. What it is, who knows. But there is a reason

[Remus West]

Ima start working on those codes now.

[Brendan]

With respect to "who would've killed Semaj?", while I'm sure old enmities can come into play, I think it's probably best if we just assume that it was random; there's not much of an opportunity to create tells in the opening moments.

actually i would think that last game probably had an influence in terms of influencing him as the kill candidate, the scenarios i see

1. It was grund (i kind of doubt it, though would be funny if grund did do such a thing)
2. An attempt at framing grund (person who is doing this has a fear of grund, or wants the spotlight on grund and hence away from them).
3. Wants people talking about the killing of semaj and possible people with motives, when the person who did has no direct/ties motives to wanting to kill Semaj (think team con from last game).
4. Possible person from team corp extracting revenge
5. It was fun just to knock him out on night 1.

So i am actually of the belief there is a reason why someone is knocked out. What it is, who knows. But there is a reason

One likely scenario you omit is that there are other people who the uruk-hai didn't want to kill because of their tactics/tendencies/native assumptions, and that Semaj fell into the class of people that the uruk-hai just didn't care about.

[Arcanis]

I will regularly send myself PMs with who is browsing and compare it to who is or isn't speaking within a timeframe.

Chaosraven, don't ever change.

I will be setting up an automatic refresh of this page.

You really want to mess with him hide pointless codes in your posts. Something that translates to "made you look" would probably be good but something that takes eleven posts to make that same statement and thus makes him do all the translations would really work best.

Screw yOu, Remus.

----------------------

Arcanis, Chaosraven, redrun, Remus West, Scoop20906, tru1cy

It is currently Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:01 pm

You see i know there is a code in here i'm just way to lazy to decrypt it.

I had to post something it was bothering me that the thread hadn't been posted in and was sinking down the list.

[stessier]

Arcanis, Chaosraven, redrun, Remus West, Scoop20906, tru1cy

It is currently Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:01 pm

If only the forum had some automated way to track when something was posted, there would be one less piece of information for you to track.

[Brendan]

Arcanis, Chaosraven, redrun, Remus West, Scoop20906, tru1cy

It is currently Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:01 pm

If only the forum had some automated way to track when something was posted, there would be one less piece of information for you to track.

You'll note that it apparently took him 25 minutes to author that post.