Bond II - The Prometheus Dawn - END!

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:42 pm

msteelers wrote:
stessier wrote:For instance, when looking back at the votes, I feel that the ones that result in trains have actually gone pretty fast. Day 1 was back and forth and back and forth - but the votes for Slim & theo were pretty quick. Then there was yesterday where the vote for Q was fast - stalled, and then Grund was gone in the blink of an eye.

To me, this indicates at least 2 if not all 3 Wolves were in on those votes. We just don't agree on enough to go that fast because of our lack of information (imo).
Normally I would agree with this line of thinking, but both days dragged on with no new information being revealed. I think it's just as likely that people wanted to advance the game along, even if it meant killing an unpowered good guy to do it. I know I certainly did when I switched my vote from Qantaga to Grund. Although if I knew Chaos would come in and kill Grund

I fully admit I should have counted the votes before throwing mine.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:15 pm

I need to go back and re-read, but what's the evidence against Remus West?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:38 pm

tru1cy wrote:I need to go back and re-read, but what's the evidence against Remus West?

Why do you ignore the votes against RMC? Why will nobody pay attention to my train?

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:44 pm

Remus West wrote:You imply we both are then why not openly say so.

Folks.

Put your votes on Remus.

He is protesting that I don't openly say things that I may be willing to imply.

Ask yourself this. Is that really something you are going to accuse someone of... of not being totally open about one's accusations.

Yet, here is Remus
1) Making population count errors when he is pretending to be trying to figure out what kind of position we are in... Ask yourself how hard it was to count the dead players off the list of total players. How on earth did Remus come to 8.

2) His gentle 'haunting' of help tossed in here and there... "Oh I wouldn't bother lynching X, he's so obviously going to be a Scan Target now" (who doesn't Remus think would be a good scan target, and rather a lynch target???)

3) He pretends that this game isn't filled with 'half accusations' / 'false accusations' and that if I am going to hint at accusing Stessier, I should do it overtly, as there is no value to hint at it.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:11 pm

Remus West wrote:
tru1cy wrote:I need to go back and re-read, but what's the evidence against Remus West?
Why do you ignore the votes against RMC? Why will nobody pay attention to my train?

Because I am an agent. Like I have said since the beginning, and while I seem to have painted myself in a bad light, I really was just reading and following Scoop's logic most of the way. <sigh> I have learned the scoop is not flawless in this it seems.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:27 pm

So now I am wondering if Unagi is a better vote.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:38 pm

Chaosraven wrote:So now I am wondering if Unagi is a better vote.

Yeah, cause I'm being a loud mouth about Remus?

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:31 pm

Unagi wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:So now I am wondering if Unagi is a better vote.
Yeah, cause I'm being a loud mouth about Remus?

Yes.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:03 pm

Remus West wrote:
Unagi wrote:Is this going anywhere, stessier, or are you just burying us in your Wolfy paper work again. (Didn't you do this one other game? I'm serious, as a wolf, didn't you once bury eveyone in a million analystical views of the historic votes, all for no reason.... I'm not insisting that's what you are doing here, just asking if you remember that.)

(sorry, I just, always, get so very little from these vote disections)
Oh, I see, I make a mathematical error which is (sadly all to) common for me in these games and that makes me a bad guy while stessier exhibits a behavior you directly link to being evil yet you carefully state that you are not accusing him. How very selective of you.

Do you know how happy it would make me if Remus got tripped up on a math error?

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:26 pm

Chaosraven wrote:
msteelers wrote:
stessier wrote:For instance, when looking back at the votes, I feel that the ones that result in trains have actually gone pretty fast. Day 1 was back and forth and back and forth - but the votes for Slim & theo were pretty quick. Then there was yesterday where the vote for Q was fast - stalled, and then Grund was gone in the blink of an eye.

To me, this indicates at least 2 if not all 3 Wolves were in on those votes. We just don't agree on enough to go that fast because of our lack of information (imo).
Normally I would agree with this line of thinking, but both days dragged on with no new information being revealed. I think it's just as likely that people wanted to advance the game along, even if it meant killing an unpowered good guy to do it. I know I certainly did when I switched my vote from Qantaga to Grund. Although if I knew Chaos would come in and kill Grund
I fully admit I should have counted the votes before throwing mine.

I call BS!!

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:28 pm

RMC wrote:
Remus West wrote:
tru1cy wrote:I need to go back and re-read, but what's the evidence against Remus West?
Why do you ignore the votes against RMC? Why will nobody pay attention to my train?
Because I am an agent. Like I have said since the beginning, and while I seem to have painted myself in a bad light, I really was just reading and following Scoop's logic most of the way. <sigh> I have learned the scoop is not flawless in this it seems.

THE SLANDER!!!

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:58 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:Do you know how happy it would make me if Remus got tripped up on a math error?

I didn't but that post still made me laugh.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:54 am

Wow. I had a long work day on the road and come in to find a flurry of activity. I'll have to read through everything carefully tomorrow morning.

One thing I find interesting:

stessier wrote:So where does that leave me? I would bet 2 of 3 are in {Scoop, msteelers, RMC, Chaos, Lassr} and wouldn't be at all shocked if all 3 are in there.

I made a similar observation (I included tru1cy in mine) when votes started piling up against me and Scoop called me evil for it.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:39 am

tru1cy wrote:I need to go back and re-read, but what's the evidence against Remus West?

Slow reader? No comments from the activity? No comments on me or RMC or Unagi? Chaosraven? Anyone?
Still alive?
/kicks body to check

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:42 am

Qantaga wrote:Wow. I had a long work day on the road and come in to find a flurry of activity. I'll have to read through everything carefully tomorrow morning.

One thing I find interesting:

stessier wrote:So where does that leave me? I would bet 2 of 3 are in {Scoop, msteelers, RMC, Chaos, Lassr} and wouldn't be at all shocked if all 3 are in there.

I made a similar observation (I included tru1cy in mine) when votes started piling up against me and Scoop called me evil for it.

Qantaga, I noted that your comment said you were "virtually certain" that several people were bad guys which was a red flag for me. Qantaga, I know my "evidence" was not strong but in the games you go with what is given you as unless you are a special or a baddie you will never be "virtually certain". Hence the red flag and vote based on your comment.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:55 am

Ok, I'm getting a bit frustrated with the pace (please note I am not frustrated with the players) of the game. It feels like other than myself, Chaos, and Unagi everyone else is playing scared to really post.

While, I would fully understand it if the baddies were taking the low radar approach but all of the non-specials MUST start to speak up and be vocal about the suspicions.

Non-special have no reason to play careful so start posting guys. You die and good guys win and you still win. Lets root out these baddies!!

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:59 am

Scoop20906 wrote:It feels like other than myself, Chaos, and Unagi everyone else is playing scared to really post.

Just those three, huh? Am I on ignore?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:09 pm

With that avatar, would you expect anything less?

Just one more example for RMC that Scoop is far from infallible.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:16 pm

Scoop's Handy Dandy Threat Matrix

Qantaga - I called him out early for saying he was due to be a baddie. Also he made a comment he was "virtually certain" someone was a baddie. He is a suspect of interest.
Theohall - Dead Agent
MSteelers - Got the middle vote spot on both Theohall and Grund. Convenient.
RMC - Newbie that also was on both lynch trains. Seems to be still trying to figure out the game but has been involved.
Scoop20906 - I predicted I would survive Night One and I'm still here. Night Two we had a successful protection. I can guarantee I will survive tonight as well. That is unless something changes.
tru1cy - Got alot of ribbing from Stessier and Unagi early on for being silent when he wasn't. Lately he has been silent and now no one is bother him. Odd pattern, huh?
Remus - Math mistake??? Forgot to count himself as a baddie? PLEASE LET IT BE SO!!!
Lassr - Likes to play the middle ground guy.
Stessier - Constantly posted. Flooded thread with vote analysis. Sometimes a wolf likes to hide in plain sight by posting tons of static information.
Rshetts2 - Dead Agent. Why did the baddie's choose to kill Rshetts2 on Night One?
Chaosraven - All evidence points to Oddjob. Do you really think Chaos had no clue he was killing Grund before Grund could claim a role?
Unagi - Plenty vocal as usual. Was not on the theohall train but pushed for Grundbegriff and was wrong.
Grundbegriff - Dead Unknown

We could have already lost a special with Grund dying unknown. Grund had been silent for a while however and one wonders if Grund as a special would have really stayed away as long as he had.

Frankly, I think it makes alot of sense for Bond to shoot chaos today. We would have at least one proven (Bond) and would know if Chaos was a baddie or not. I realize there is risk with this but we also take the risk that Bond will be killed tonight since most likely Judy Havelock will protect herself. If Bond uses he shot the Judy Havelock may protect him guaranteeing he survives for at least another day.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:17 pm

Remus West wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote:It feels like other than myself, Chaos, and Unagi everyone else is playing scared to really post.
Just those three, huh? Am I on ignore?

You are posting but I sense some restraint on your part and therefore you aren't included in my merry group.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:17 pm

stessier wrote:With that avatar, would you expect anything less?

Just one more example for RMC that Scoop is far from infallible.

STOP IT!!!

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:18 pm

Remus West wrote:BTW, I'm good with lynching RMC today. His happy to vote anywhere attitude combined with the everyone is agents comment earlier make me nervous.

In fact,
RMC

So I really don't get the vote anywhere=evil vibe in this case. I remember my first games and I just wanted to do *something*. But that juxtaposed with the "everyone is an agent" comment, does seem out of place. The first says ultra newbie while the second says he knows what is going on. I could be convinced.

Bu the thing that is really bugging me is that msteelers and Chaos both trying to run from their vote on Grund. msteelers wanted to move the game along, Chaos voted without even bothering to count. That just doesn't seem right for either one.

I say msteelers

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:46 pm

stessier wrote:
Remus West wrote:BTW, I'm good with lynching RMC today. His happy to vote anywhere attitude combined with the everyone is agents comment earlier make me nervous.

In fact,
RMC

So I really don't get the vote anywhere=evil vibe in this case. I remember my first games and I just wanted to do *something*. But that juxtaposed with the "everyone is an agent" comment, does seem out of place. The first says ultra newbie while the second says he knows what is going on. I could be convinced.

Bu the thing that is really bugging me is that msteelers and Chaos both trying to run from their vote on Grund. msteelers wanted to move the game along, Chaos voted without even bothering to count. That just doesn't seem right for either one.

I say msteelers

I'm curious to hear why you choose to vote for msteelers rather chaos.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:50 pm

Really?

someone voting to move the game along - that seems just totally unfathomable?

Especially for msteelers.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:05 pm

Ok before this goes any further, let me say this: I fucked up. I didn't count, and grund died silent. I believe I have mentioned this TWICE ALREADY. But I feel I redeemed myself... When I protected Remus West last night.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:08 pm

As I noted in my protection order, I figured with two killing votes I would be a reasonable frame so who better than Remus, unless he was a bad guy. Guess what? So which of you decided that was a good plan? Cuz I gotcha! Remus West is a good guy. Now let's all chew on that for a bit.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:16 pm

I suppose I will test my first theory. Chaosraven, how do you feel about shooting someone today? I'd suggest RMC but it would obviously be up to you if my theory is correct.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:30 pm

Chaosraven wrote:As I noted in my protection order, I figured with two killing votes I would be a reasonable frame so who better than Remus, unless he was a bad guy. Guess what? So which of you decided that was a good plan? Cuz I gotcha! Remus West is a good guy. Now let's all chew on that for a bit.

Very interesting.

It must be true (that Chaos and Remus are good) in the absence of a counter, since Judy is most definitely still alive today.

This increases our chances of lynching a bad guy today quite a bit (3/8, instead of 3/10).

Of course, we'll need everyone to check in to make sure there are no counter claims of Ms. Havelock.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:40 pm

Remus West wrote:I suppose I will test my first theory. Chaosraven, how do you feel about shooting someone today? I'd suggest RMC but it would obviously be up to you if my theory is correct.

Well, nevermind my theory then. Thanks for the save. Since I'm probably gone tonight.....I know a bad guy for certain.

withdraw RMC

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:42 pm

Chaosraven wrote:Ok before this goes any further, let me say this: I fucked up. I didn't count, and grund died silent. I believe I have mentioned this TWICE ALREADY. But I feel I redeemed myself... When I protected Remus West last night.

If this is true, this seriously comes as some very welcome news.

Let's all wait for everyone to chime in...

I have no counter to Chaos's claim.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:43 pm

Qantaga wrote:Of course, we'll need everyone to check in to make sure there are no counter claims of Ms. Havelock.

You mean besides Scoop?

I'd be good for shooting Scoop or RMC today.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:45 pm

Unagi wrote:If this is true, this seriously comes as some very welcome news.

Really??? It's good to have our Shield out in the open????

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:45 pm

Remus West wrote:
Remus West wrote:I suppose I will test my first theory. Chaosraven, how do you feel about shooting someone today? I'd suggest RMC but it would obviously be up to you if my theory is correct.
Well, nevermind my theory then. Thanks for the save. Since I'm probably gone tonight.....I know a bad guy for certain.

withdraw RMC

I'm a littel confused...

1) why is "the shooting" up to Chaos?

oh, wait - I see, your theory was that he was the shooter....

ok....
2) you know a bad guy for certain. Excellent. Who.

(by the way, my plan for if you came up human was to just go for RMC, Qantaga, and msteelers and be done with it all)...

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:47 pm

stessier wrote:
Unagi wrote:If this is true, this seriously comes as some very welcome news.
Really??? It's good to have our Shield out in the open????

Well. I was probably about to lynch Remus, and Chaos was very much on our radar.

If Chaos can turn from 'untrusted boobey that kills at N-1' to "trusted boobey that saved Remus..." yeah, that's actually good news.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:48 pm

stessier wrote:
Qantaga wrote:Of course, we'll need everyone to check in to make sure there are no counter claims of Ms. Havelock.
You mean besides Scoop?

Scoop's reaction to Chaos' claim should be all kinds of interesting.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:52 pm

Unagi wrote:
stessier wrote:
Unagi wrote:If this is true, this seriously comes as some very welcome news.
Really??? It's good to have our Shield out in the open????
Well. I was probably about to lynch Remus, and Chaos was very much on our radar.

If Chaos can turn from 'untrusted boobey that kills at N-1' to "trusted boobey that saved Remus..." yeah, that's actually good news.

Ahh - so Obiwan was right? It all depends on your point of view???

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:58 pm

Unagi wrote:
Remus West wrote:
Remus West wrote:I suppose I will test my first theory. Chaosraven, how do you feel about shooting someone today? I'd suggest RMC but it would obviously be up to you if my theory is correct.
Well, nevermind my theory then. Thanks for the save. Since I'm probably gone tonight.....I know a bad guy for certain.

withdraw RMC

2) you know a bad guy for certain. Excellent. Who.

+1

And who is the good guy you know as well?

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:11 pm

I'm not going to counter Chaos.

I was hoping to draw a kill tonight on myself by faking Judy however Chaos drew my attack reticule by killing Grund preventing his response. Chaos came out because there was a possibility that Bond might have been talked into shooting him. Sorry about that Chaos.

This still means we could be one special down although it would not be Julie.

Remus is good since Chaos claims to have protected him. Remus claims to have a baddie. Suppose we have to wait for him to let us know (I'm pretty sure I understand why he is waiting).

So, lets wait for everyone to check in to make sure no one counter Chaos.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:50 pm

stessier wrote:
Unagi wrote:2) you know a bad guy for certain. Excellent. Who.
+1

And who is the good guy you know as well?

How interesting to compare those two questions.
Unagi immediately focuses on the one bad guy claim while stessier wants to know both scans.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:54 pm

Remus West wrote:
stessier wrote:
Unagi wrote:2) you know a bad guy for certain. Excellent. Who.
+1

And who is the good guy you know as well?
How interesting to compare those two questions.
Unagi immediately focuses on the one bad guy claim while stessier wants to know both scans.

Well, I love any comment that paints Unagi in a poor light but my first thought is who is the baddie you found too. I wouldn't be surprised if I was the good guy you scanned.