Bond II - The Prometheus Dawn - END!

[Scoop20906]

Stessier = Mum

[Unagi]

I've got a big (long, but I hope fun) reply to all that... Qantaga, I think you really are evil, and I hope this all convinces Scoop and stessier...

I have a confession to make.
I am at the point where proving Unagi wrong is going to be as sweet as actually winning the game.

I am going to point out why that statement is so strange to me.

I seriously feel that if I lose, but I am "proved right" that will still be sweet on some level. That's the thought I keep having.
I never once got the impression that you would feel that way.

I mean you never seemed to have the solice of the 'I told you so' in your back-pocket. That's what all that hyper "no no, my innocence Must be Declared and Established Here and Now, later will be of No Value" stuff seemed to reveal to me.

Mind you, I don't mean - being willing to lose - I mean having the comfort that you will eventually be totally vindicated, and the blow-hard (me, in this story) calling for your needless execution will be tarred and feathered. That never once came across in any of your posts to me.

To phrase it like "proving you wrong will be as sweet as actually winning the game" seems to really be laying it on sorta 'thick'.

I'm sitting here thinking you are the last wolf, and if you aren't, I can certainly imagine that you will be looking forward to told-ya-so-ing me. After playing enough of these games, one tries to never let that fact act as a deterrent. One also learns that wolves love to throw that around as a deterrent.

anyhow...

I still want the good side to win

Well said.

Unagi, I'm sure you realize that you are the one that is forcing a Qantaga v. Unagi showdown. Of the four of us, you are the least likely to change your vote or, as you say, " "Fine, I'll go with you two just to end the game, this isn't my choice".

I already spoke on that. Scoop has only just now shown any real cards (with his vote, before he just had some theories, etc). Stessier has been clearly placed on Scoop, unless you aren't paying attention... But you paint this as I am the least likely to change my vote, that may be true (Scoop and stessier both seem a bit stuburn to me, I guess it's all perspective) , but I'm not alone in having some convictions - you however, were certainly last to even find his 'opinion' it would seem.

I think what you really mean is that I am the one insisting that the others listen to my points... And as this actually developed (since this back-n-forth started between us), I then began pointing out the recent behavior of yours that I think condemns you more directly. (no longer are you Evil mainly because I couldn't find Scoop and Stessier evil, now you've started to really smell.)

And, there was a lot you just posted that I find exception to as well.

I've had 5 days of trying to convince you that I'm good and, frankly, I've grown weary of the effort.

You say this from a position that you just never felt I was a wolf, which I count against you.
You focused on your own defense and never really seemed to be of the mind that someone out there (not even your accuser) was the last wolf. Heck, I still don't really know who you think the last wolf is, if it's not me, who you yourself said wasn't your first choice.

Are you willing to bet the game that I'm evil?

Well, not the whole game.
Qantaga, c'mon. Are you trying to scare me?
"Are you willing to bet the game that I'm evil?"
Of Course! Do you have any perspective on how crazy that sounds. I'm voting for you as the last wolf on the last day.
Here, you can quote me: "I'm willing to bet the game that Qantaga is evil."

Are you willing to hand the game to an evil Scoop or stessier (if you really are a good agent like you say you are)?

I handed it to them both, and neither took it... that was something I actually was watching for.
And, more to the over-riding question, on some level, yes - I have indeed come to terms with that scenario
...and, actually more to the point: I've come to terms with the possibility that I even had to beg one of them as the wolf to join me over the course of a week.

Less you forget, this whole thing started with me proclaiming that I landed on you mainly because I couldn't fathom Scoop or stessier being the wolf.

That's at the core.

You've blown that off and moved me over to the "He just was so certain I was Hugo...", when my 'certainty' actually grew from your reaction.

I am stunned that a good agent would be so dead set against me

Wait, is it hard for you to imagine a good agent being dead set against you...

- As I said earlier, it's hard for me to imagine Hugo sinking his teeth so deeply into only one conclusion (his conviction that I am evil).

Or is it hard for you to imagine Hugo being dead set against you.

Unagi's persistence seems more good than evil.

So there is a zone of persistence that's good, but then it moves into the evil zone a little later.

* His backpedaling on RMC (I've mentioned this before).

Yeah, and I'm glad you are finally expanding on it... what a joke. Let's look at this:

Unagi was in the cross-hairs to be shot by Bond. So, he came out with the suggestion to shoot RMC.

psst. RMC was the zerker. That's not exactly something that makes me look evil, bub.
That was my suggestion, and I never once Backed Down from that suggestion.
If I was Hugo, and I was in the cross-hairs, you are saying I would push the Zerker in front of the gun from me.
Damn, I'm actually glad you noticed that point, because I think it's a fairly profound one.

anyhow, let's read on, to see how you show me backpedaling on RMC

Then, Bond shot tru1cy and the votes started up on Lassr. Then RMC posts:

OK, Bond...

Take your shot on RMC.

I am fairly convinced that Scoop and stessier are good guys.

If you do end up shooting me, please folks. remember - I called tru1cy, RMC, and Lassr. (And I got Lassr without Remus' help)

No just wait one minute. I am not a bad guy at all. I know I made the wrong choices, and did not learn from my first game at all, and got ax'd there as well.

Please scan me and then it will prove I am just a normal Agent.

And here comes Unagi's response:

RMC, there will very likely be no more scans.
I'm starting to wonder if you are a villain or not, once more.

RMC had not played a normal wolf game in his life, and when I went back and read the rules, I saw the ambiguity. This honestly did read a little like a newbie playing all alone, who really hadn't known that Remus couldn't get protected again. I had flipped back and forth on him in my mind the whole game.

So, you call that 'backpedaling'. nice.

and then here is the topper:

I've been trying as hard as I can to change Unagi's mind and he won't budge. RMC posts that and Unagi goes, "oh, okay, free pass for you."

"free pass for you".

Hilarious. The very next day, I am the first to start voting for him. Back-pedaling.

* Scoop and stessier have had ample opportunity to think of any excuse to join Unagi's bandwagon and neither one has.

Yes, I think I just pointed that out.
But it's worth repeating, I think this also helps prove stessier and Scoop. Either one, as a wolf, would have been sorely tempted to let my accusations gain momentum. Neither one of them has put any wind behind it.

* Scoop's shadow RMC. Who is the most likely player to put a noobie RMC up to mimicing Scoop all game? Unagi.

Well, I laughed at that statement but I, honestly, don't like to push Scoops buttons as much as we bump heads a lot and lock horns, and frankly I really hope Scoop believes that (I like to think he does).
But, that is actually funny, and I bet Scoop thought it was too. (and he probably half believes it!)

So, as Unagi says, I am seeing reasons that he could be Hugo. He wasn't my first choice, but

begs the question....

since he has virtually assured us that we will not reach a consensus on Scoop or stessier

That is bull, I already said I didn't want anyone to feel that way. And, just which 'consensus on Scoop or stessier' are you pretending to be a part of trying to build, in leau of this begrudged vote against me?

* I know for a fact that everything Unagi is attributing to me is false. Why would a good agent make up so much about me, to the point where, no matter what I post or how I post it, he becomes more convinced of my guilt? I know I'm innocent, so this is triggercut on steriods.

First, the whole triggercut thing is a rock villains hide behind to blind radars - there is nothing to read from a triggercut, and it's just absurd to feed that thing 'steroids' on the last day of a WW game.

* Look at this:

The way it looks like this is going is that Scoop isn't going to move off his stessier stance.
Stessier (I assume) is still thinking it's Scoop.
So, it will be up to Qantaga to put that "2nd vote" on someone....

-and this:

Same goes for you Stessier. Put your damn vote on Scoop.
Scoop - you are on Stessier already...

This is the perfect setup for Unagi/Hugo. He is demanding that the two of you put a vote down on each other, so that I can put the 2nd vote down. Then, he leaps suddenly off me (surprise, surprise) for the kill.

Look at how you are talking out of two sides of your mouth:

since he has virtually assured us that we will not reach a consensus on Scoop or stessier

Which is it Qantaga?
You are pushing both of these theories right now:

• I have virtually assured us that we will not reach a consensus on Scoop or Stessier.
• I am trying to trick Qantaga into joining a consensus on Scoop or Stessier.

and, then - you really did save the very best for last.

* Here's something that strikes me as odd, given Unagi's conviction of my guilt

I assume you mean my current 'conviction' of your guilt. What's annoying is that you then go on to quote me (quite obviously...) at a time in the game when I actually started this more just 'supporting Stessier and Scoop' over you.

:

OK, I am actually starting to gel on RMC and Qantaga being the other two.

And, frankly - it's only because there were a few moments where I feel like Scoop and stessier did/said something that just makes me feel they are british agents, not villains.

regarding:

Yet he admonishes stessier for defending me

Actually, you are reading that entirely wrong. Well, wait - I did admonish him, but I admonished him as a Good-Guy... (and in hindsight, it's embarrassing that I wrote it, because I think I sound like a prick now that I re-read it.)...
I was schooling Stessier. I was informing him that his publicly defending a player (you, in this case) to the degree that he seemed to be doing created such a spike on everyone's radar ("stessier is a bad-guy noise") that it didn't help his case against others finding him innocent. I was being a dick, it was a PSA to stessier from me.


 Qantaga 
 

In response to tru1cy saying he was a Good Guy - Have to see if you ever stood Happily corrected...

I think you've posted on every page so far.

If you turn up 'Villager', than I will happily Stand Corrected.

Btw. Kudos to Tru1cy for how he started playing the game.

[stessier]

Stessier = Mum

Sorry - traveling for work.

[stessier]

I think it is  Scoop 
 
 Scoop 
 
 Scoop 
 
 Scoop 
 
 Scoop 
 
 Scoop 
 
 Scoop 
 
!!!

However -

When today started Q said this was Unagi making it about Unagi & Q and that's what it would come down to. I really never saw it that way - Unagi said he wouldn't deadlock us if it came to that and I was interested to hear what Scoop and Q thought of all of us. I posted my thoughts first and apparently that changed Scoop's outlook as he never said what he was originally inclined to before my posting. I've been counting that against him on top of everything else and that's really made me feel good about my position.

Q's apparently got a life (the horror!) and so it took him a little longer to start posting his thoughts (and he had all that very important defending to do). He got stuff down on Unagi and Scoop finally, and said he would be getting to me. We've waited...and waited...and waited...and waited...and waited...and finally he said he's grown weary and that if it's going to be Unagi and Q, so be it.

I've been hanging my hat on the N-1 vote. 5 hours. That's a looooooooooooooooooooooooong time. It's been proof to me that Scoop is bad and Q is good. Even attempting to reconsider it and my mind is screaming that nothing else makes sense but...

What if Unagi is the Bad Guy? He doesn't place his vote as then all three wolves are lined up in a row. Q gets off, history happens. The next day, he's all over Remus, slips on there being two scans. In a vacuum, that's possible. But then you look at everything else - pointing the gun at RMC, getting so completely locked in to Q today - really, what I said earlier today. There's so much more to suggest that the "wolfy" stuff is really Good Guy uninformed stumbling and bumbling.

So what if Q is the Bad Guy? First, that means he, Lassr, and RMC made the hail mary of all hail marys on N-1. It's nuts. It can't happen. But what if it did? The effect on us today is obvious. Q would be cleared. And what happens?

Unagi lands on Q.
stessier lands on Scoop.
Scoop lands on stessier.

Q does analysis and...gives up and votes Unagi? Q has forced the situation he predicted at the beginning of the day and not because a reasoned analysis lead him there and he thinks Unagi is the most likely target based on the sum of all our play, but because he's "weary" and Unagi "forced" this on him. But now that it is forced - look at all these points that prove Unagi is the wolf! And hanging over it all - the N-1 vote. I mean, if it came down to Q or Unagi - who would Scoop and I side with? Could we have made it any more clear?

And then there is the ezmating. I get that he has a life, but really, we were dead locked. Why was he so concerned something might happen while he was gone? Couldn't he just call us all idiots if we killed him and move on?

And the constant defense. Unagi is 1 vote. As a villager - do you change someone's mind by shouting you are not a wolf over and over and over again and leave it at that? Or do you say - "you are an idiot" and then go about finding a wolf?

And really the rest of the game (excepting that one vote). If you've got Lassr & RMC howling into the wind, a quiet, non-controversial Q is extremely plausible.

But you have to except that one vote. And the 5 hours.

I can't believe I am even considering this.

[Qantaga]

I do want to address this part:

Less you forget, this whole thing started with me proclaiming that I landed on you mainly because I couldn't fathom Scoop or stessier being the wolf.

That's at the core.

You've blown that off and moved me over to the "He just was so certain I was Hugo...", when my 'certainty' actually grew from your reaction.

I am stunned that a good agent would be so dead set against me

Wait, is it hard for you to imagine a good agent being dead set against you...

- As I said earlier, it's hard for me to imagine Hugo sinking his teeth so deeply into only one conclusion (his conviction that I am evil).

Or is it hard for you to imagine Hugo being dead set against you.

Unagi's persistence seems more good than evil.

So there is a zone of persistence that's good, but then it moves into the evil zone a little later.

You conveniently left out the second part of my assessment on you from days ago:

So despite his position, you've ruled out Unagi as being a Bad Guy?

I haven't ruled him out, but I can only see him in one of two ways now:

1. Unagi is a good agent with a strong opinion. He has determined that he has found Hugo and, come hell or high water, he is sticking to his guns. He's wrong, but his conviction seems more in line with how a good agent would play, rather than a bad one.

-or-

2. Unagi is Hugo and has decided to take a scorched earth strategy on me. That way, he seems to have made up his mind, but he's still in postion to flip his vote if two good agents agree on the third innocent.

I'm having a hard time deciding between these two Unagis.

Before Chapter 4, I would have bet a lot that Unagi was good. His (incorrect) determination that I am evil causes my human nature to wonder if he really is evil.

You have managed to convince me that #2 is the most likely scenario.

Look back to my post from Saturday:

So, Qantaga, do you think that Unagi is Hugo and trying to frame you? Or is Stessier Hugo?

I honestly don't know. The three of you keep trading places in my mind.

- Unagi - I'm not sure. He's probably my lead candidate right now because of his "certainty" that I am Hugo. Since I know I'm not Hugo, the triggercut reflex is kicking in. However, I'm not sure that Hugo would be so determined about one player when he just needs votes on anyone other than him. His dogged pursuit almost makes me see him in an innocent light.

- Scoop - I think RMC latched too hard on you for you to be Hugo. However, you have been pushing for votes against me since the very beginning of the game, even after stessier pointed out the unlikelihood of me being bad, which has an evil taint to it.

- stessier - As Unagi says, stessier has a lot of post "seeds" out there that paint him in a good agent light. However, I also know that stessier is crafty enough to construct legitimate sounding "innocent" moments in his posts.

I've read through the thread once today. A few things jumped out, but I'm going to let them percolate, then I plan on going through at least once more tonight or tomorrow morning to see if they still strike me as odd or if anything else catches my attention.

I'm also planning on revisiting the various lynch votes.

It's not like I had cleared you and now, I'm suddenly after you. You've helped me reach this point. Before this (game) day started, I would have ranked 1. Scoop, 2. Unagi, 3. stessier. Very quickly, you became my "lead candidate," even though I found it contradictory behaviour for Hugo, I never ruled you out, like you are trying to make it sound.

And, I know you say triggercut-ing is a rock for bad guys to hide behind, but triggy is a pretty smart guy, so it's not a completely worthless theory, especially since I know, for an absolute fact, that I am not Hugo.

I am going to feel bad if Scoop or stessier turn out to be a wolf. I came into this last day all aglow, knowing that the game had shown us that we only had to pick a wolf from three players (Unagi, stessier, Scoop) because the game had proven me innocent. Before Scoop and stessier ever even showed up in the thread (that game day), you were already launching a full scale campaign on why I was Hugo. Every attempt at responding to you was met with more and more conviction of my "wolfy smell" from you. My mistake was in trying to address your points to get us, as a group, to increase our odds of finding the real Hugo. In my naivety, I thought I was helping the good team by addressing your concerns. It is a valuable lesson for me to have now learned for future OO games that that particular strategy is viewed as damning in these games.

You accuse me of not trying to find the wolf, but here's the honest truth. I can see any of the three of you as Hugo. There are moments in the game where I can make a case for any of the three of you being good or evil. So, unlike the three of you, I don't have any certainty about who the wolf truly is in this game. However, I do see enough evil in you that I'm willing to vote for you. As a matter of fact, your comment to Remus about meta-gaming (that I quoted earlier) bought you a whole lot of cred with me. I'm now willing to let that go as staged. Looking at everything else about your play this game, I'm quite comfortable with voting for you as Hugo.

So, I'm happy with letting Scoop and stessier decide the outcome.

[Qantaga]

That was cross-posted with stessier's post.

Just a few things:

1. I had no idea about the ezmating. I just thought it was common courtesy when I would be gone for an extended time, especially in the middle of the last (game) day. If that condemns me, fine. But, you guys can't see that a good agent would want to win the game as much as a bad agent? Yes, I am very invested in this game. I desperately want the good agents to come out on top this time. So, yes, it means a lot to me and I wanted you to know why I wasn't going to be around for awhile. Heck, Unagi used me "missing all the fun" when RMC was lynched against me in a post on Saturday.

2. I never got around to my analysis on you because the only things that stand out about you are a) your voting record (that I listed in a previous post) and the fact that you look almost so innocent that it could be a very well crafted persona this game. You are far and away my least likely candidate for wolf. If you are the wolf, you've snowed me completely.

3. Yes, Unagi is just one vote, but really, do you think he's going to move his vote? As a matter of fact, I think the way he is going to move his vote is that he really is Hugo and is waiting for me to side with you or Scoop, so he can pounce for the kill.

I came into the day looking hardest at Scoop.

I now believe it's Unagi.

[Qantaga]

(and he had all that very important defending to do).

Oh, and this did make me laugh to myself.

Believe me, I won't ever be doing that again.

[Unagi]

So, unlike the three of you, I don't have any certainty about who the wolf truly is in this game. However, I do see enough evil in you that I'm willing to vote for you.

Nice way to put the weight on us.

Unlike the three of us, you aren't certain.
However, you do see enough evil to place a vote.

After this entire exchange you insist on describing the three of us as being certain.
But you give yourself the graceful , 'see just enough evil to humbly place a vote'


I have news for you. None of us are 'certain' and I've now pointed this out a number of times. Your insistence to color things that way speaks to your desire to undermine our confidence.

[Unagi]

I am very invested in this game.

Milk out nose, no shit.

How's that?? Through a series of triggercut votes on Scoop?

[Unagi]

I desperately want the good agents to come out on top this time.

This time.
Every other game you have simply wanted the good guys to win.
This time you want it desperately.

What on gods green earth is this whole "this time" about.

In fact, you even said you have a lot invested in this game.

[stessier]

So if you were a wolf, would you go into the last day and absolutely stick with the craziest option possible? Especially once the two you aren't voting against are already aligned against it? This isn't some other day where if it blows up in your face, you have a teammate to carry on the battle. This is it - someone loses today. There are other votes available and actually other votes already placed - simple as pie to join them. But it doesn't happen. And Unagi even checked in after I indicated I was thinking of changing my vote. He had set himself up where he could have said "Ah ha - was just waiting to see who blinked first" and change his vote. He didn't. I can't see a wolf doing this. So Unagi isn't the wolf.

That leaves Qantaga and Scoop.

You know, the N-1 vote wasn't really as all in as it appears. It really was set up to clear any of the wolves. If Q dies and we find either Lassr/RMC, the one that is left can point to the vote as why it can't possibly be him. It is able to clear any of them that is left at the end.

From that point of view, Scoop loses a lot of his wolfy-ness. It still bugs the heck out of me how he's keeping his cards so close to his chest the last day or so and how he seems to be waiting for others to act before he does. But Q's actions today without that N-1 flag wrapped around his shoulders clearly exceed that.

So -

If it is Scoop, I screen print an "stessier is always right" t-shirt and force Unagi to wear it at Octocon.
If is is Unagi, I skip Octocon.
If it is Qantaga - I ignore Unagi's self satisfied grin at Octocon and take solace that at least I got it right eventually.

 Qantaga 
 

[Unagi]

pay attention, scoop:

You know, the N-1 vote wasn't really as all in as it appears. It really was set up to clear any of the wolves. If Q dies and we find either Lassr/RMC, the one that is left can point to the vote as why it can't possibly be him. It is able to clear any of them that is left at the end.

[Newcastle]

3 Votes need for Majority

Stessier (1) - Scoop,
Unagi (1) - Qantaga,
Qantaga (1) - Unagi, Stessier,
-

No Votes Cast:



Let me know if I've missed anything

[stessier]

3 Votes need for Majority

Stessier (1) - Scoop,
Unagi (1) - Qantaga, Stessier,
-

No Votes Cast: Unagi,



Let me know if I've missed anything

Not much - just that it should be this:

stessier (1) - Scoop
Qantaga (2) - Unagi, stessier
Unagi (1) - Qantaga


Good effort though!

[Newcastle]

(yeah, i screwed up, sorry bout that...correct count is posted...sorry about that once again)

[Qantaga]

I suppose we'll know soon enough if Scoop is Hugo.

Scoop, since I'm n-1, I can only try to assure you that I am not Hugo. I am good and pure in the service of Her Majesty.

[Scoop20906]

This feels like a set up.

You guys are giving me the kill vote to win the game. You know I dream about this stuff .... the final kill vote to win the game.



Only one problem. I still don't think Lassr and RMC pushed their Hugo to N-1. I still think Hugo stayed off the vote so he wouldn't get caught in the kill vote spot. When RMC voted for Qantaga was the Qantaga vote really going anyway at that point? It really felt like the momentum had stopped for me. It looked to me that RMC saw an opportunity to get a good guy killed and blame ME for it.

My vote is still on Stessier but at this point I could vote either Unagi or Stessier. My theory for Unagi is that his push for Qantaga is a move Hugo wouldn't try at the final vote. Stess came out strong against me and almost totally ignore Unagi which surprised me quite a bit. Now he has switched to Qantaga seemingly because he wants to get the day over with. While I would applaud a good stessier for trying to be open minded I still think he is a wolf grasping an opportunity.

Regardless of Stessier's change of heart, we are still deadlocked.

[Qantaga]

Well, hallelujah! We have learned one very nice fact.

Scoop has now been proven good.

That is excellent news because it reduces the Hugo pool to only 3 possibles: Qantaga, Unagi, stessier.

Thank you for letting me live Scoop. I promise you that you will not regret it.

[Scoop20906]

Well, hallelujah! We have learned one very nice fact.

Scoop has now been proven good.

That is excellent news because it reduces the Hugo pool to only 3 possibles: Qantaga, Unagi, stessier.

Thank you for letting me live Scoop. I promise you that you will not regret it.

Qantaga, this doesn't prove me good. If I was Hugo, it would only show that I have some patience.

[Qantaga]

Here's my dilemma:

1. stessier - I think stessier blinked. He didn't come into the thread and say, "well Qantaga, you forced me to choose between you and Unagi, so I chose you." What he did was try to build a case to try to persuade Scoop to join, even to the point of doing an entire 180 of his previous position of the n-1 moment. He could have very easily said, "I have to set aside the n-1 moment while evaluating between Q and Unagi," but he turned his opinion of that moment around completely in his argument.

2. Unagi - I still can't get past his relentless campaign against me. He doesn't occassionally question things I say, he disputes almost everything I say. That just doesn't seem like reasonable behaviour for a good agent trying to find the truth. Why is he so committed? I think he developed a strategy that he would come out swinging against me because he knew that neither Scoop nor stessier would engage him, while I foolishly did.

[Qantaga]

Qantaga, this doesn't prove me good. If I was Hugo, it would only show that I have some patience.

You're just stringing it out for the fun of it (if you were Hugo)?

I really am naive.

I can't think of any reason for Hugo to withhold a vote that would win the game.

But, obviously, I still have a lot to learn.

[Scoop20906]

Qantaga, this doesn't prove me good. If I was Hugo, it would only show that I have some patience.

You're just stringing it out for the fun of it (if you were Hugo)?

I really am naive.

I can't think of any reason for Hugo to withhold a vote that would win the game.

But, obviously, I still have a lot to learn.

Are you really that naive?

Could I just be a good player testing you?

[Scoop20906]

Here's my dilemma:

1. stessier - I think stessier blinked. He didn't come into the thread and say, "well Qantaga, you forced me to choose between you and Unagi, so I chose you." What he did was try to build a case to try to persuade Scoop to join, even to the point of doing an entire 180 of his previous position of the n-1 moment. He could have very easily said, "I have to set aside the n-1 moment while evaluating between Q and Unagi," but he turned his opinion of that moment around completely in his argument.

I agree with this assessment.

2. Unagi - I still can't get past his relentless campaign against me. He doesn't occassionally question things I say, he disputes almost everything I say. That just doesn't seem like reasonable behaviour for a good agent trying to find the truth. Why is he so committed? I think he developed a strategy that he would come out swinging against me because he knew that neither Scoop nor stessier would engage him, while I foolishly did.

Well, here is the thing. When Unagi things he is right this is how he always argues his point. There is no middle ground and little objectivity either. Trust me, I have been on the receiving end of this attack numerous times. This is actually entirely in Unagi's character. However, it doesn't mean he isn't Hugo. It just means he has decided to go full out for you for some reason. It seemed to change Stessier's mind, huh?

[Qantaga]

Are you really that naive?

Could I just be a good player testing you?

Yep. I really am that naive. That never entered my mind.

I'll be quiet now.

Do what you feel is best.

[Scoop20906]

Are you really that naive?

Could I just be a good player testing you?

Yep. I really am that naive. That never entered my mind.

I'll be quiet now.

Do what you feel is best.

Quiet?

That is the last thing I want. From my memory of playing with you I never saw you nervous about presenting a scenario and talking it through with everyone. Was I missing something?

Qantaga, are you that afraid of getting killed?

[Qantaga]

Are you really that naive?

Could I just be a good player testing you?

Yep. I really am that naive. That never entered my mind.

I'll be quiet now.

Do what you feel is best.

Quiet?

That is the last thing I want. From my memory of playing with you I never saw you nervous about presenting a scenario and talking it through with everyone. Was I missing something?

Qantaga, are you that afraid of getting killed?

Scoop, I only meant I'd be quiet about you being proven good and whether or not you are testing me.

I have no intention of staying quiet about the game itself.

As far as being afraid of being killed, I have no fear of that whatsoever. If I get killed, I finally get to revel in the fact that I have been telling the truth of my innocence all this time. I hope we find the real Hugo, but I honestly could care less if I get killed or not.

[Scoop20906]

More on Stessier:

When today started Q said this was Unagi making it about Unagi & Q and that's what it would come down to. I really never saw it that way - Unagi said he wouldn't deadlock us if it came to that and I was interested to hear what Scoop and Q thought of all of us. I posted my thoughts first and apparently that changed Scoop's outlook as he never said what he was originally inclined to before my posting. I've been counting that against him on top of everything else and that's really made me feel good about my position.

I expected alot more objectivity from Stessier coming into the final day. What I saw instead was an absolute full attack on me. That on the face of it wasn't odd but the fact that he didn't even seem to give a tenth of the attention to Unagi and was using the Qantaga N-1 as his bases to attack me was a shock.

I've been hanging my hat on the N-1 vote. 5 hours. That's a looooooooooooooooooooooooong time. It's been proof to me that Scoop is bad and Q is good. Even attempting to reconsider it and my mind is screaming that nothing else makes sense but...

Ahh, there is a huge amount of logic missing from N-1 vote to scoop is evil.

[Unagi]

Dude.
Scoop.

Stessier and I are now solid against Qantaga (It would seem, his post sound conclusive)

This needs to end at some point.

What is up here. I am done going back and forth with this.

Can you just relax a bit and say to yourself "OK, well - if this is wrong, I will either blame Unagi OR stessier for this" - as well, you are not being "set up" by both of us (impossible) and I don't think you are being set-up at all.


And - It's almost funny that Qantaga doesn't have the guts to Insist that this does indeed prove you are "good", because - if you are evil - WHAT WOULD YOU BE WAITING FOR??? If you are a wolf, your vote against Qantaga would win you the game. Why would you not just 'take the win', and instead draw this out. For what? Just to drag it out? Sorry Scoop, you may indeed be a patient Wolf, but you would also just be a bit of a 'dick wolf' for making everyone wait like that. (and I don't think you are a 'dick wolf')

Scoop. People (stessier in this case) are totally thrown off by some of your manuevers (like the faking the Protector thing) - they don't let them go. I think that is why you saw stessier locked onto you that whole time.

Blame me latter if I am wrong.
Blame me for asking you to trust stessier.
Blame stessier for asking you to trust Unagi.

If I am a wolf, blame stessier for being the one that made it all about a stalemate or something.... Just please. can you please just vote for Qantaga and we can end this damn thing.


Here, pretend I just sent you a car- and in that car is a really cute girl and a ton of cash.

Now, please - can you please just make this vote. You are in the least 'responsible' position now. This isn't going to look bad for you, it will either look bad for stessier or me.

You've done your due dilagence on Stessier.

Qantaga has made it clear that he is firmed up on me.

What's it gonna be here Scoop. This game is indeed in your hands at this point.



Let's please End This.

[Qantaga]

Unagi, if you're so desperate to end the game, why don't you self-vote?

If you're truly good, that would give stessier the opportunity to put the third vote on you and win it for the wolves, the same exact result that would occur if Scoop kills me (the unknown if Scoop kills me is whether you are the wolf or stessier is).

If you are evil, then by self-voting you're not asking Scoop to throw the game for the entire good team, you're doing it because of your own interest to end the game now.

Why ask Scoop to do your dirty work for you?

The last wolf is either you or stessier. Don't ask Scoop to throw the game.

[Scoop20906]

Qantaga, you think I am good and not a "dick wolf", correct?

I think Stessier is the Hugo. Please move your vote to stessier.

(Unagi, you have no idea how hard you made me laugh when I read the "dick wolf".)

[Qantaga]

Qantaga, you think I am good and not a "dick wolf", correct?

I think Stessier is the Hugo. Please move your vote to stessier.

(Unagi, you have no idea how hard you made me laugh when I read the "dick wolf".)

I most definitely think you are good. You've proven yourself to me. I said as much in my first post when I saw you didn't kill me.

You'll have to give me a a little bit of time to think about moving my over vote to stessier.

My worst nightmare scenario in this game is if I move my vote to stessier and Unagi suddenly jumps over to win the game as a wolf.

[Qantaga]

You'll have to give me a a little bit of time to think about moving my *over vote* to stessier.

Should be *vote over*

[Scoop20906]

Qantaga, you think I am good and not a "dick wolf", correct?

I think Stessier is the Hugo. Please move your vote to stessier.

(Unagi, you have no idea how hard you made me laugh when I read the "dick wolf".)

I most definitely think you are good. You've proven yourself to me. I said as much in my first post when I saw you didn't kill me.

You'll have to give me a a little bit of time to think about moving my over vote to stessier.

My worst nightmare scenario in this game is if I move my vote to stessier and Unagi suddenly jumps over to win the game as a wolf.

Take your time.

[Unagi]

Unagi, if you're so desperate to end the game, why don't you self-vote?

because I'm trying to win.

[stessier]

Qantaga, you think I am good and not a "dick wolf", correct?

I think Stessier is the Hugo. Please move your vote to stessier.

(Unagi, you have no idea how hard you made me laugh when I read the "dick wolf".)

I most definitely think you are good. You've proven yourself to me. I said as much in my first post when I saw you didn't kill me.

You'll have to give me a a little bit of time to think about moving my over vote to stessier.

My worst nightmare scenario in this game is if I move my vote to stessier and Unagi suddenly jumps over to win the game as a wolf.

Take your time.

You really don't see it do you? His worst nightmare just happens to be the only hope he has of getting a consensus?

Fine. Then I don't see any way we win. I'm not Hugo. I think Q is.

So

a) Q and Scoop vote stessier. Unagi declines. Unagi is proven, but stessier isn't. Does Scoop change his vote to Q? Seems unlikely. Stalemate. Unagi votes stessier, we lose (but get to move on with life, which can't be over looked).

b) Q and Scoop vote stessier. Unagi is wolf and votes for me, we lose, I skip Octocon (but we get to move on with life, which can't be over looked).

The only way I could have been proven was if Unagi and Q had voted for Scoop and I had declined. With that denied to me, we're left with the above two conditions.

Am I missing anything?

[Qantaga]

My worst nightmare scenario in this game is if I move my vote to stessier and Unagi suddenly jumps over to win the game as a wolf.

Take your time.

You really don't see it do you? His worst nightmare just happens to be the only hope he has of getting a consensus?

stessier, I'm surprised at you. You think me moving my vote to you is my only hope of consensus?

Even if I were to do that (which would prove Unagi innocent if he didn't immediately jump on the vote), do you honestly think (a proven) Unagi is likely to move off me to you... ever, for any reason?

I think the odds of Unagi choosing to vote you evil instead of me are what? 1 in a zillion?

I think you're being disingenuous when you try to point this out to Scoop.

I believe that's why you chose to align with Unagi, rather than with me.

[Qantaga]

Scoop, I have a question for you:

Where do you rate your belief of Unagi's innocence?

- A feeling?
- A strong belief?
- An almost certainty?

[stessier]

stessier, I'm surprised at you. You think me moving my vote to you is my only hope of consensus?

Dude, what game have you been reading? Who else could you vote for? Scoop? Oops, proven. Unagi? You can't even get to 2 on him as - I'm voting for you - I'm not voting to hand you the game - and Scoop is voting for me which indicates no way he would vote for Unagi as doing so would require him to vote with me for any type of resolution.

So yeah - I'm your only hope of consensus.

Even if I were to do that (which would prove Unagi innocent if he didn't immediately jump on the vote), do you honestly think (a proven) Unagi is likely to move off me to you... ever, for any reason?

I think the odds of Unagi choosing to vote you evil instead of me are what? 1 in a zillion?

In a vacuum, I'd agree. But as you well know, he's said he won't let us stalemate. As I laid out, a proven Unagi will eventually vote for me so we can get on with our lives. He can say "haha - told you, not Hugo", but that seems unlikely to get Scoop to change his mind about me. So we will sit - 2 votes on you and no where else to go.

I believe that's why you chose to align with Unagi, rather than with me.

I chose you because a re-examination of the evidence makes a very clear case for you. Scoop sees all the signs but is blinded by the one act you hoped would blind us all. The case for Unagi is virtually non-existent. There is no way any wolf takes the stand he did today. I might be wrong, but I doubt it.

I'm really not sure what you are waiting for. There is no one left to convince. If Unagi is bad,we'll lose fast. If you are bad, we'll lose eventually - it won't be because you changed Unagi's mind though. It'll be simple expediency.

[Scoop20906]

Scoop, I have a question for you:

Where do you rate your belief of Unagi's innocence?

- A feeling?
- A strong belief?
- An almost certainty?

I have a strong belief based on past interactions with Unagi.

[Scoop20906]

pay attention, scoop:

You know, the N-1 vote wasn't really as all in as it appears. It really was set up to clear any of the wolves. If Q dies and we find either Lassr/RMC, the one that is left can point to the vote as why it can't possibly be him. It is able to clear any of them that is left at the end.

I guess it my turn to pressure Unagi.

You've just asked me to switch my vote to just end the game regardless if I think its the right guy or not. Do you really want me to play the game that way?

I don't buy it. I don't buy it that Qantaga, RMC, and Lassr hatched the plan to put their Hugo at N-1.

Stessier didn't buy it until a few hours again and I believe he train of thought was "Ah F*ck, Unagi's not going to flip to scoop and I'm ready for this to be over so lets flip my vote over to Q since Scoops never seen a kill vote he doesn't like. Right, thats done now lets play starcraft."

Look, Unagi, earlier in the game you asked me to flip my vote to Grundbegriff. I did and you were wrong.

I think its only fair for you to return favor. Vote Stessier.