Star Wars WW - Game Over - Rebel Victory

[triggercut]

so just curious...the game started pretty damn slow...then there was a rush to vote scoop. Now, that darth bieber picture is worth it alone to lynch him. But anything else? Just a funky train is all, and i wonder how many wolves are sitting on it.

Also, why wouldnt yoda hold back? I could easily see him not using it on a daily basis to mess with our minds.

My original vote was placed for a reason. Not quite ready to discuss that yet.

[Newcastle]

 withdraw grund 
 

-now that he's up and around and conscious



something doesnt sniff right with unagi....first his "lets rush someone up the flagpole" doesnt bear the traditional thoughful unagi i've come to expect....followed by "Ok.So Yoda is in the game, but R2D2 isn't.Good to know." Do we? Seriously? Do we really know there is/is not a yoda or r2d2? And how do you definiteively know that unagi-san? I think only 1 way really, rebel!


 unagi 
 

[Grundbegriff]

Ok.
So Yoda is in the game, but R2D2 isn't.

Good to know.

something doesnt sniff right with unagi....first his "lets rush someone up the flagpole" doesnt bear the traditional thoughful unagi i've come to expect....followed by "Ok.So Yoda is in the game, but R2D2 isn't.Good to know." Do we? Seriously? Do we really know there is/is not a yoda or r2d2? And how do you definiteively know that unagi-san? I think only 1 way really, rebel!

 unagi 
 

I think Unagi was using #irony to question why coopasonic fretted over the Evil with one overvote while neglecting the Evil with three overvotes. coopasonic seemed to show insider knowledge, although it's possibly just inattention to detail.

Bottom line, we need an answer from bb

[Isgrimnur]

Did you just pull your vote to give yourself cover for later?

Yep. I'm a Rebel.

You've just thrown up with a huge spike on my radar.

Then vote to lynch me.

Or think about why, with 5 days to go and 4 potential overvotes out there that I wanted to step back for a second first.

I'm fine with introspection and an examination of things. Asking Scoop in particular why he wasn't dead didn't seem to me to be introspection, it seemed like baiting that was counter to the reason you would pull your vote.

I'm not always going to vote on someone just because I don't like one post or one play. Someone can be making what I feel to be a bad play without being an entire liability or a rebel traitor.

[triggercut]

 Isgrimnur 
 

[RMC]

So is this the infamous triggercut rule now?

Someone disagrees with trigger and they get voted for?

Just asking, because I am bored and it is Friday.

[triggercut]

So is this the infamous triggercut rule now?

Someone disagrees with trigger and they get voted for?

Just asking, because I am bored and it is Friday.

There may be contributing factors to my vote.

[coopasonic]

Rethinking it, I'm convinced Yoda wouldn't use his one secret vote unless it was the killing vote, since it can only be used once and can't be changed once cast.

Nevermind what Yoda would do. The question is what R2D2 would do.

Why are you worrying about Yoda (who may or may not be in the game)?

At that time, because R2-D2 has so many votes it, he already could have had the kill and there was nothing I could do about it.

My brain is still trying to absorb the idea that not only do we not know how many rebels there are, but we also don't know how many or what specials there are. This is only my second werewolf game and it's a very different format than the other one I played (Tron), which had it's own set of frustrating unknowns.

[coopasonic]

In honesty it hadn't occurred to me the secret vote might already be there. I guess my mind was set on the secret vote being the killing vote. Apparently it wasn't and trig pulled us back from the ledge, so I'm not longer nervous.

Rethinking it, I'm convinced Yoda wouldn't use his one secret vote unless it was the killing vote, since it can only be used once and can't be changed once cast.

coop, can you really not see the discrepancy? You say you're nervous about the secret vote. You say that your mind was set on the secret vote being the killing vote. You say you're more convinced now that you've thought about it (that the secret vote would be the killing vote). The problem is that you say that you're nervous, but your actions (putting Scoop at N-1 where that secret vote became a possibility) say that you're not nervous at all about the secret vote. It looks like you're trying to make an excuse for your actions, while carrying them out anyway.

Yes, I can see the discrepancy in hindsight. At the time I cast the vote I wasn't even thinking of the secret votes. I was following Unagi's lead of get someone to N-1 and get them to speak up for themselves. I suspect Unagi wasn't as clueless as I was at the time.

Once the secret votes came to the fore, I was thinking Yoda only got to throw his down once, now I'm terrified of Yoda.

I'm also glad to see Grund is participating now.

So given the secret votes is the strategy now to run up to N-4 and expect a defense to be presented/panic response?

[Isgrimnur]

Nice to see, what a reasoned, calm response gets me, no?

[Grundbegriff]

I'm also glad to see Grund is participating now.

Sick day from work....

[Unagi]

Ok.
So Yoda is in the game, but R2D2 isn't.

Good to know.

something doesnt sniff right with unagi....first his "lets rush someone up the flagpole" doesnt bear the traditional thoughful unagi i've come to expect....followed by "Ok.So Yoda is in the game, but R2D2 isn't.Good to know." Do we? Seriously? Do we really know there is/is not a yoda or r2d2? And how do you definiteively know that unagi-san? I think only 1 way really, rebel!

 unagi 
 

I think Unagi was using #irony to question why coopasonic fretted over the Evil with one overvote while neglecting the Evil with three overvotes. coopasonic seemed to show insider knowledge, although it's possibly just inattention to detail.

Bottom line, we need an answer from bb

Grund is correct.

My point was built around the idea that Coop is perhaps a Rebel.
If Coop is a Rebel - what I feel like he did was share that he was concerned with Over Votes (a fake concern, shown by him placing Scoop within reach of that Over Vote)... and he went on to describe Over Votes as being the power of One Certain Rebel : Yoda. If Coop is a Rebel, and he was faking his concern about Over Votes :: THEN, one could conclude that Yoda is in the game, but R2D2 isn't.

That's all.

I certainly don't hold it as "truth", and I'm not trying to get everyone to conclude that Yoda IS in the game and R2D2 isn't... Just pointing out what Coop is saying and what the implications could be.

[Remus West]

You guys seem to be ignoring the possibility of Yoda being in the game but not wanting to expose himself. Right now we have no clue which rebel roles we are facing off against. If someone dies at n-1 we would likely conclude that it was Yoda's vote as our own overvote is not likely to be cast in the dark like this. I agree that R2D2 would hold off due to the increasing impact his multiple votes will have later in the game.

[El Guapo]

Are you two just speculating (based on the Scoop train)? Or have you seen something definite?

Just speculating on the Scoop train.

We got to N-1.

Cases:

1. Scoop is Empire, Yoda is in-game, but was not active during the Scoop train formation. I find this to be fairly unlikely...Scoop's train didn't form up that rapidly. Could happen, I guess.
2. Scoop is Empire, Yoda is in-game, but didn't cast his overvote for him even though he was playing during the last 48 hours. Can't see it.
3. Scoop is Empire, Yoda is in-game, but cast his vote earlier for another player. Not too likely, unless Yoda mis-played. I would assume that anyone with an overvote knows that it can't be changed during the day and will thus hold it until they're sure of what the play will be. Yoda would wait for the train to start, not try to anticipate it.
4. Yoda is not in game.
5. Scoop is a Rebel.

I miss any possibilities here?

I think that's all of them. The only thing that I would add is that I don't find #1 to be that unlikely. If I were Yoda I'd wait until at least n-2 before casting the over-vote to avoid wasting it if the train melts away. I think it's entirely possible (even likely) that Yoda wasn't online in the 24 minutes that Scoop was at n-1. I think it's perfectly plausible that he wasn't online between when Scoop hit n-2 (~11 pm eastern, if the post times are right) and n-2 at 7:24 the next day.

There's also Yoda not wanting us to know that he's in the game, but I'm not sure if I find that likely - I'd think a guaranteed miss is something that Yoda wouldn't want to pass up on (IF Scoop is imperial, of course).

One question for bb2112: can Yoda (and Dooku for that matter, but Yoda's what we're discussing now) submit conditional orders for his over-vote? If so, how general can they be?

My intuition is that Yoda CAN say to bb, "If Scoop hits n-1, cast my secret vote for him," but CAN'T say "if any imperial hits n-1, then case my secret vote for that person."

But if Yoda CAN issue that second general "any imperial" conditional order, then I think this makes it more likely that Yoda is not in the game.

[El Guapo]

I see Coop's point re: Unagi suggesting that we get someone to n-1, so I was just putting him on n-1 even though I had concerns re: the secret vote. The suspicious part of that for me is Coop's apparent "hey, I was just following orders" rationale for that. If you think that going to n-1 might be bad given secret vote concerns, I don't see why Unagi's say-so (when, if you're an imperial, you don't know Unagi's role) would override any concerns. THAT reads to me a bit like "hey, I can move him to n-1 and use Unagi's statements to justify it."

[coopasonic]

I see Coop's point re: Unagi suggesting that we get someone to n-1, so I was just putting him on n-1 even though I had concerns re: the secret vote. The suspicious part of that for me is Coop's apparent "hey, I was just following orders" rationale for that. If you think that going to n-1 might be bad given secret vote concerns, I don't see why Unagi's say-so (when, if you're an imperial, you don't know Unagi's role) would override any concerns. THAT reads to me a bit like "hey, I can move him to n-1 and use Unagi's statements to justify it."

To be clear I wasn't saying I was following orders. I was following his lead, meaningfully different to me.

At this point my motivation is to see something happening. Stuff is happening now. Mission accomplished. If Scoop was eliminated, that wouldn't necessarily bother me as it's stuff happening and we would know one person's faction at least.

Tron was such a completely different game. It's taking a lot to adjust to this one.

I don't see why Yoda would hide his presence in the game, in my mind either he isn't in the game, missed the window or scoop is a rebel. Sadly that is a pretty wide spread of possibilities.

[bb2112]

bb2112: Is there such a thing as a Rebel Grunt?

If I understand the question correctly, you are asking if there are Rebel roles out there that don't do anything? Something similar to a Guard but can participate on the Rebel forum? If this is your question, then no. Right now all the Rebels have special abilities. I am thinking for future iterations I will include some rebels without special abilities, but for this first game, what you see is what you get.

One question for bb2112: can Yoda (and Dooku for that matter, but Yoda's what we're discussing now) submit conditional orders for his over-vote? If so, how general can they be?

My intuition is that Yoda CAN say to bb, "If Scoop hits n-1, cast my secret vote for him," but CAN'T say "if any imperial hits n-1, then case my secret vote for that person."

Good question, I had to think about this one. I will allow a player with the overvote ability to designate when a specific player hits a certain n-x to have their overvote go off. However, the player would have to be named, you can't say "any Imperial," or make a list of potential players. Also, I don't want this priveledge abused to get around the casting 1 time per day rule by constantly changing the candidate and timing for the overvote. So I will allow it if someone has an IRL issue, but if someone is trying to cheese the rule (or my good graces), then they will receive a PM'd warning from me at first. But if it persists, then I will change my mind for that individual so their overvote will have to be PM'd to me in real time and will happen only when I receive it.

I hope this clarifies things.

[Lassr]

Newcastle's vote switch bothers me. I also read Unagi's message to mean he was calling out Coops odd explanation. Newcastle seems to be trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

[Grundbegriff]

bb2112: Is there such a thing as a Rebel Grunt?

If I understand the question correctly, you are asking if there are Rebel roles out there that don't do anything? Something similar to a Guard but can participate on the Rebel forum? If this is your question, then no. Right now all the Rebels have special abilities. I am thinking for future iterations I will include some rebels without special abilities, but for this first game, what you see is what you get.

So then, we definitely have Yoda and we definitely have R2D2.

 Scoop20906 
 

[triggercut]

bb2112: Is there such a thing as a Rebel Grunt?

If I understand the question correctly, you are asking if there are Rebel roles out there that don't do anything? Something similar to a Guard but can participate on the Rebel forum? If this is your question, then no. Right now all the Rebels have special abilities. I am thinking for future iterations I will include some rebels without special abilities, but for this first game, what you see is what you get.

So then, we definitely have Yoda and we definitely have R2D2.

 Scoop20906 
 

?

How so?

All Rebels have roles, but not every role is in play for them.

There are 9 rebel roles available in the game. There are probably 7 or 6 rebel players. 2-3 rebel roles are not active in the game.

Show me your math for determining that both R2 and Yoda are in play for the Rebels, since I'm missing it.

[Chaosraven]

bb2112: Is there such a thing as a Rebel Grunt?

If I understand the question correctly, you are asking if there are Rebel roles out there that don't do anything? Something similar to a Guard but can participate on the Rebel forum? If this is your question, then no. Right now all the Rebels have special abilities. I am thinking for future iterations I will include some rebels without special abilities, but for this first game, what you see is what you get.

So then, we definitely have Yoda and we definitely have R2D2.

 Scoop20906 
 

given the possible numbers of rebels (6, 7, 8) and the number of rebel roles (9), that's not valid.

[Qantaga]

So then, we definitely have Yoda and we definitely have R2D2.

given the possible numbers of rebels (6, 7, 8) and the number of rebel roles (9), that's not valid.

Chaos is correct. Nothing, save the Emperor, is definite:

Sorry if I was not clear. The Emperor is the one role that is guaranteed to be in the game. Everyone else is random.

[Qantaga]

Oh, and I should have included trig in the "Chaos is correct" category in my post above.

[Grundbegriff]

So then, we definitely have Yoda and we definitely have R2D2.
 Scoop20906 
 

How so?

All Rebels have roles, but not every role is in play for them.

There are 9 rebel roles available in the game. There are probably 7 or 6 rebel players. 2-3 rebel roles are not active in the game.

Odd numbers confuse me.

 withdraw Scoop20906 
 

[Scoop20906]

Wow. Just got caught up. I have to stand next to a window here at work to get any reception.

First, I'm no reb so please keep me far away from N-1 in case gods exists and grows some ballsz.

Second, let me get home to post my thoughts first.

ThNks,

Darth Bieber

[Scoop20906]

Interesting that apple replaces Yoda with gods.

[coopasonic]

Wow. Just got caught up. I have to stand next to a window here at work to get any reception.

First, I'm no reb so please keep me far away from N-1 in case gods exists and grows some ballsz.

Second, let me get home to post my thoughts first.

ThNks,

Darth Bieber

My vote is staying on scoop until his avatar changes.

[Semaj]

Dartth bieber?

Makes me want to execute him regardless of allegiance for that...

[Grundbegriff]

Interesting that apple replaces Yoda with gods.

I wondered what you were talking about. Too much BSG, I figured.

[theohall]

So then, we definitely have Yoda and we definitely have R2D2.
 Scoop20906 
 

How so?

All Rebels have roles, but not every role is in play for them.

There are 9 rebel roles available in the game. There are probably 7 or 6 rebel players. 2-3 rebel roles are not active in the game.

Odd numbers confuse me.

 withdraw Scoop20906 
 

Absolutely shocked. Grundbegriff with a lack of attention to detail? Might be worth considering, but Unagi's trying to "lead" still bugs me.

[Lassr]

Interesting that apple replaces Yoda with gods.

Damnyouautocorrect!

[tru1cy]

I'm still trying to sort through the time-traveling forums to get the order of everyone's posts straight in my mind. I think I've about got it figured out from bb2112's vote tallies and from Lassr's time stamps (his testing posts).

What time traveling forum?

[coopasonic]

I'm still trying to sort through the time-traveling forums to get the order of everyone's posts straight in my mind. I think I've about got it figured out from bb2112's vote tallies and from Lassr's time stamps (his testing posts).

What time traveling forum?

Yesterday for most of the day the time on the forum was running 4 hours fast, after it was fixed posts later posts started appearing among earlier posts.

[theohall]

I'm still trying to sort through the time-traveling forums to get the order of everyone's posts straight in my mind. I think I've about got it figured out from bb2112's vote tallies and from Lassr's time stamps (his testing posts).

What time traveling forum?

Yesterday for most of the day the time on the forum was running 4 hours fast, after it was fixed posts later posts started appearing among earlier posts.

It was running so screwed up, it refused to allow me to post because I had posted too recently, even though the new post attempts were 2, 3 and 4 hours after the last post I had made. Of course, running 4 hours fast would cause this. Damn time travelers. This is Star Wars, not Star Trek and their silly worm-holes.

[Scoop20906]

I'm home.

Ok, first, at least 5 of the votes on me were based on my Darth Bieber avatar. Now lets be honest thats just good clean but it ain't the reason for a bandwagon.

HOWEVER (1), this is Day One (with no Night Zero) so its as good a reason as any. I can't argue with that.

HOWEVER (2), it does seem this bandwagon did expose certain people's assumptions. I've scanned the posts but I'll post later as I need to go over them and see what I can pick up.

[Mr Bubbles]

I'm home.

Ok, first, at least 5 of the votes on me were based on my Darth Bieber avatar. Now lets be honest thats just good clean but it ain't the reason for a bandwagon.

HOWEVER (1), this is Day One (with no Night Zero) so its as good a reason as any. I can't argue with that.

HOWEVER (2), it does seem this bandwagon did expose certain people's assumptions. I've scanned the posts but I'll post later as I need to go over them and see what I can pick up.

I suspected Rebel agitators, but was afraid to stick my neck out for you. I have failed you Darth Bieber.

[Scoop20906]

I'm home.

Ok, first, at least 5 of the votes on me were based on my Darth Bieber avatar. Now lets be honest thats just good clean but it ain't the reason for a bandwagon.

HOWEVER (1), this is Day One (with no Night Zero) so its as good a reason as any. I can't argue with that.

HOWEVER (2), it does seem this bandwagon did expose certain people's assumptions. I've scanned the posts but I'll post later as I need to go over them and see what I can pick up.

I suspected Rebel agitators, but was afraid to stick my neck out for you. I have failed you Darth Bieber.

You are weak, old man.

[Scoop20906]

Ok, here is the Scoop bandwagon at n-1 (where I could potentially be killed by Yoda)

Triggercut, Unagi, Stessier, Lassr, Kenetickid, Chaosraven, Pr0ner, Remus West, Grundbegriff, coopasonic

Triggercut - his vote started the bandwagon. Said he was going with his gut

Unagi - I think this is a test vote for Unagi more than a gut vote.

Stessier - his reason was I need to start working on my game. Cruel but correct.

Lassr - links himself to Stessier. Is there a reason for this?

Kenetickid - KK jumps on the bandwagon. To me I think he was trying to put his vote in a safe place.

Chaosraven - no real reason. Another saftey vote?

Pr0ner - of course couldn't be bothered to give a reason.

Remus West - claims aversion to my Darth Bieber avatar.

Grundbegriff - Whats his reason? Counting error?

coopasonic - The most interesting vote was Coops at the end and Unagi and Trig were all over him for it. Puts me at N-1 and then makes sure everyone knows it. Kind of seems like a set piece.

Out of all the votes, Trig's vote and reactions to everything seems the most natural. I'd stick Trig in my trusted category at this point in the game. The rest of you are mynocks sucking my power cables.

Ok, last thought. When I was at N-1 why didn't Yoda take me out? It seems like he had the time and opportunity. If I take the way BB handled the question about how Yoda would be able to use his power (can say if a certain player is at N-1 then use his power) means to me that there is no Yoda OR Yoda hasn't breached these questions with the Mod which I think is a stretch. Therefore, I think Yoda is not one of the powers in play.

[Unagi]

Of course, what one can gather from all of that hinges on your allignment, wouldn't you agree?

[bb2112]

Votes

1 Lassr -----------------> Scoop20906
2 RMC ------------------> Unagi
3 Tru1cy --------------- > Unagi
4 Remus West ---------> Scoop20906
5 Qantaga --------------> Tru1cy
6 Newcastle ------------> Unagi
7 Mr. Bubbles ----------> Semaj
8 Theohall --------------> Unagi
9 Chaosraven ----------> Scoop20906
10 Scoop20906 ----------> Remus West
11 Coopasonic -----------> Scoop20906
12 El Guapo --------------> Lassr
13 Lord Mortis ----------->
14 Stessier ---------------> Scoop20906
15 Unagi ------------------> Scoop20906
16 Pr0ner -----------------> Scoop20906
17 Semaj -----------------> Mr Bubbles
18 Kenetickid ------------> Scoop20906
19 Triggercut ------------> Isgrimnur
20 Isgrimnur -------------> Newcastle
21 Grundbegriff --------->

Lassr 1 <----------------- El Guapo
Mr Bubbles 1 <----------- Semaj
Unagi 4 <----------------- Tru1cy, RMC, Theohall, Newcastle
Newcastle 1 <------------ Isgrimnur
Tru1cy 1 <---------------- Qantaga
Remus West 1 <--------- Scoop20906
Semaj 1 <----------------- Mr Bubbles
Scoop20906 8 <---------- Unagi, Stessier, Lassr, Kenetickid, Chaosraven, Pr0ner, Remus West, Coopasonic
Isgrimnur 1 <------------- Triggercut

Majority is 11
Deadline: July 13th 9PM EST