Star Wars WW - Game Over - Rebel Victory

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:48 pm

bb2112 wrote:Triggercut, who was still lying prostrate on the floor, was the only one close enough to hear Chaosraven's last words as Chaosraven drops with a thud next to him on the floor. "I was loyal to the Empire you dicks."

I take it this is the confirmation that Chaos was empire?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:50 pm

bb2112 wrote:This goes on for some time while the mod is busy taking his controller from Mexico out to lunch at TGI Friday's. When he returns he has found that all hell has broken loose on the board and now he has to spend a lot of time sorting out what the hell just happened - but that is another story. A much sadder, much more boring story, in another galaxy far, far away.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:50 pm

El Guapo wrote:
bb2112 wrote:Triggercut, who was still lying prostrate on the floor, was the only one close enough to hear Chaosraven's last words as Chaosraven drops with a thud next to him on the floor. "I was loyal to the Empire you dicks."
I take it this is the confirmation that Chaos was empire?

I would say that's a yes.

I guess we know who day 2 is going to be.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:51 pm

Remus West wrote:
Unagi wrote:
Remus West wrote:
Unagi wrote:One thing is totally clear: triggercut has absolutely no idea who was just voted over.
This is Unagi referencing the end result of a lynch? Maybe you really do read more into things than I do.
? huh? what did you just say?
That's the post (the first of yours I quoted there) triggercut said was you saying the end result of the lynch was going to be Empire.

Oh, yes. right. (I wasn't sure if you were saying that I was reading into things, and that you (also, like El Guapo) missed my sarcasm)

I agree - I honestly don't see how one (Triggercut) reads that and concludes my point was to point out that the target was Empire.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:52 pm

Soo...emperor probably dead on day 1. Wasn't it tru1cy's job to protect him?

Anywho, at least we're getting a clear rebel lynch out of this.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:54 pm

triggercut wrote:
Unagi wrote:
El Guapo wrote:The mighty El Unapo.
Eel Guapo
So that's what an unagi is.

I can at least say I learned something today now!

Another fun fact: Unagi, I didn't know that you appeared in Friends.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:54 pm

Dammit.

Prime suspects:

Everyone on the CR train has to be a suspect, but...

coopasonic was willing to vote scoop to n-1. Hard to see him as a Rebel.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:56 pm

Only two players who never voted for Scoop but who did vote for CR:

RMC and Newcastle

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:58 pm

coopasonic was willing to vote scoop to n-1. Hard to see him as a Rebel.

Your point being that Count Dooku would have worried a "rebel".

Right?

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:05 pm

Unagi wrote:
coopasonic was willing to vote scoop to n-1. Hard to see him as a Rebel.
Your point being that Count Dooku would have worried a "rebel".

Right?

Basically anyone in on the lynch train to n-1 seems pretty safe to me, although it'll bear checking to see who was out of town when it happened.

At any rate, I'd assume that the Rebs would jump off the Scoop train before it got to n-1 since they're worried over a possible Dooku decisive vote.

The second time Scoop went up far--to n-2--is more interesting. What scared the Rebs enough for Scoop to do a reveal like that?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:07 pm

El Guapo wrote:Soo...emperor probably dead on day 1. Wasn't it tru1cy's job to protect him?

Anywho, at least we're getting a clear rebel lynch out of this.

Um, probably?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:11 pm

stessier wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Soo...emperor probably dead on day 1. Wasn't it tru1cy's job to protect him?

Anywho, at least we're getting a clear rebel lynch out of this.
Um, probably?

Yeah, I'm being overly cautious I know. But it's not a *certainty*. Chaos could have had another imperial title but faked emperor to save the true emperor. It's unlikely to the point of a virtual certainty that Chaos was the emperor (so Scoop is next on the noose), but I said 'probably' because it's not literally certain.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:13 pm

It is at this point I would like triggercut to revisit the concept of my instincts in this game and whether they do in fact suck or not.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:15 pm

While unlikely, never discount the possibility that Scoop was one of the unpowered guard trying to give the emperor cover. I made a screwup like that where someone tried to give me cover and I completely blew it.

The more I think about it, though, the less it makes sense in this context. IIRC, if Scoop was trying to protect the emperor by attracting fire, it seems like the odds were much more inclined to backfire this early in the game with no trusted individuals.

Never mind, I'm just spitballing, and poorly at that.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:17 pm

Well Frak! (oops, wrong show)

Bantha Fodder!

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:17 pm

here's a fun snapshot of the way things stood when Scoop got to N-1. This original post came just before coopasonic voted to put Scoop at n-1. I have taken the liberty of editing this post to add his vote for clarity's sake.

1 Lassr -----------------> Scoop20906
2 RMC ------------------> Unagi
3 Tru1cy --------------- > Unagi
4 Remus West ---------> Scoop20906
5 Qantaga --------------> Tru1cy
6 Newcastle ------------> Grundbegriff
7 Mr. Bubbles ----------> Semaj
8 Theohall --------------> Unagi
9 Chaosraven ----------> Scoop20906
10 Scoop20906 ----------> Remus West
11 Coopasonic -----------> Grundbegriff
12 El Guapo --------------> Lassr
13 Lord Mortis ----------->
14 Stessier ---------------> Scoop20906
15 Unagi ------------------> Scoop20906
16 Pr0ner -----------------> Scoop20906
17 Semaj -----------------> Mr Bubbles
18 Kenetickid ------------> Scoop20906
19 Triggercut ------------> Scoop20906
20 Isgrimnur -------------> Newcastle
21 Grundbegriff ---------> Scoop20906

Lassr 1 -----------------> El Guapo
Mr Bubbles 1 -----------> Semaj
Unagi 3 -----------------> Tru1cy, RMC, Theohall
Newcastle 1 ------------> Isgrimnur
Tru1cy 1 ----------------> Qantaga
Remus West 1 ---------> Scoop20906
Grundbegriff 1 ---------> Newcastle
Semaj 1 -----------------> Mr Bubbles
Scoop20906 9 ----------> Triggercut, Unagi, Stessier, Lassr, Kenetickid, Chaosraven, Pr0ner, Remus West, Grundbegriff, coopasonic

Majority is 11
Deadline: July 13th 9PM EST

Let's make one broad assumption: there are probably no Rebel votes on Scoop in that list. Not sure if KK was active at this point in the game.

The three votes on Unagi are interesting, aren't they?

Newcastle and Isgrimnur seem interesting, as do Semaj and Bubbles playing footsie.

I would be horribly remiss if I did not point out that I, triggercut, was the first person to flinch and pull my vote from Scoop. That just screams Rebel.

If required, I'll go ahead an prove my Empireness if the group requests it.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:18 pm

BB2112, don't forget to post the final vote count please.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:18 pm

Remus West wrote:It is at this point I would like triggercut to revisit the concept of my instincts in this game and whether they do in fact suck or not.

When you're right, you're right. You nailed it, and I bungled it horribly.

I'll at least note that we got R2 to blow his wad, and hopefully we have Scoop dead to rights as a result.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:21 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:While unlikely, never discount the possibility that Scoop was one of the unpowered guard trying to give the emperor cover. I made a screwup like that where someone tried to give me cover and I completely blew it.

The more I think about it, though, the less it makes sense in this context. IIRC, if Scoop was trying to protect the emperor by attracting fire, it seems like the odds were much more inclined to backfire this early in the game with no trusted individuals.

Never mind, I'm just spitballing, and poorly at that.

it wouldn't be a first for Scoop but you'd hope he had learned his lesson from the last time. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Oh, sorry, you said to ignore you...uh...what?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:24 pm

triggercut wrote:I'll at least note that we got R2 to blow his wad, and hopefully we have Scoop dead to rights as a result.

We don't know that yet, do we? Chaos got to 9, right? If Dooku and Yoda both moved, they could have done it themselves. Yodayodayoda...if they exist...yodayodayoda

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:26 pm

stessier wrote:
triggercut wrote:I'll at least note that we got R2 to blow his wad, and hopefully we have Scoop dead to rights as a result.
We don't know that yet, do we? Chaos got to 9, right? If Dooku and Yoda both moved, they could have done it themselves. Yodayodayoda...if they exist...yodayodayoda

Why are you doing a Twiki impersonation?

Kenetickid · Post by **Kenetickid** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:28 pm

triggercut wrote:here's a fun snapshot of the way things stood when Scoop got to N-1. This original post came just before coopasonic voted to put Scoop at n-1. I have taken the liberty of editing this post to add his vote for clarity's sake.
1 Lassr -----------------> Scoop20906
2 RMC ------------------> Unagi
3 Tru1cy --------------- > Unagi
4 Remus West ---------> Scoop20906
5 Qantaga --------------> Tru1cy
6 Newcastle ------------> Grundbegriff
7 Mr. Bubbles ----------> Semaj
8 Theohall --------------> Unagi
9 Chaosraven ----------> Scoop20906
10 Scoop20906 ----------> Remus West
11 Coopasonic -----------> Grundbegriff
12 El Guapo --------------> Lassr
13 Lord Mortis ----------->
14 Stessier ---------------> Scoop20906
15 Unagi ------------------> Scoop20906
16 Pr0ner -----------------> Scoop20906
17 Semaj -----------------> Mr Bubbles
18 Kenetickid ------------> Scoop20906
19 Triggercut ------------> Scoop20906
20 Isgrimnur -------------> Newcastle
21 Grundbegriff ---------> Scoop20906

Lassr 1 -----------------> El Guapo
Mr Bubbles 1 -----------> Semaj
Unagi 3 -----------------> Tru1cy, RMC, Theohall
Newcastle 1 ------------> Isgrimnur
Tru1cy 1 ----------------> Qantaga
Remus West 1 ---------> Scoop20906
Grundbegriff 1 ---------> Newcastle
Semaj 1 -----------------> Mr Bubbles
Scoop20906 9 ----------> Triggercut, Unagi, Stessier, Lassr, Kenetickid, Chaosraven, Pr0ner, Remus West, Grundbegriff, coopasonic

Majority is 11
Deadline: July 13th 9PM EST
Let's make one broad assumption: there are probably no Rebel votes on Scoop in that list. Not sure if KK was active at this point in the game.

The three votes on Unagi are interesting, aren't they?

Newcastle and Isgrimnur seem interesting, as do Semaj and Bubbles playing footsie.

I would be horribly remiss if I did not point out that I, triggercut, was the first person to flinch and pull my vote from Scoop. That just screams Rebel.

If required, I'll go ahead an prove my Empireness if the group requests it.

At that point in the game (from where you quoted) I was active (more than I have been), but I have been more inactive overall in this day one.

Need to catfh up from page 15 ish to put forth a a qualified set of thoughts.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:31 pm

El Guapo wrote: Yeah, I'm being overly cautious I know. But it's not a *certainty*. Chaos could have had another imperial title but faked emperor to save the true emperor.

Not overly cautious, I think you are showing your cards a little...

As it stands; a FAKE-CR would need to considered the fact that by countering Scoop, he may been countering the Real Emperor.

Now - a Rebel KNEW Scoop was a fake.

Sounds a little like you were willing to think that perhaps Chaos was a fake too... That's odd.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:38 pm

Unagi wrote:
El Guapo wrote: Yeah, I'm being overly cautious I know. But it's not a *certainty*. Chaos could have had another imperial title but faked emperor to save the true emperor.
Not overly cautious, I think you are showing your cards a little...

As it stands; a FAKE-CR would need to considered the fact that by countering Scoop, he may been countering the Real Emperor.

Now - a Rebel KNEW Scoop was a fake.

Sounds a little like you were willing to think that perhaps Chaos was a fake too... That's odd.

Let's be clear - I am essentially certain that Chaos was the Emperor. I used the word "probably" because we don't have literal, 100% confirmation of that fact. But I don't want you to think that I was or am seriously entertaining the prospect that Chaos was a fake Emperor.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:39 pm

Lawyers.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:45 pm

heh. What's the name of the Emperor's general counsel?

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:46 pm

Nuts.

When Scoop "revealed" at 9 votes, CR was at just 6 votes. That would require a combined Yoda/Dooku/R2 overvote on CR.

I was hoping we'd see vote totals (including overvotes) on CR for analysis, but the speed at which CR went from 6 up to 9 was very fast, so the decisive votes could've landed with 8 or 9 visible votes. If R2 was involved, his 3 overvotes could've been sitting on CR from the moment that theohall and coopasonic pulled off CR to vote for Scoop earlier today. Possible for it to have been the 9 votes and Dooku and Yoda both overvoted for CR as well, but I have reasons to doubt that possibility.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:50 pm

I'm still hoping we get a final vote count. It seems like it should happen. It would have happened if things hadn't been moving so quickly. We should learn where the day ended imho.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:51 pm

stessier wrote:I'm still hoping we get a final vote count. It seems like it should happen. It would have happened if things hadn't been moving so quickly. We should learn where the day ended imho.

Right. 12 votes tells us R2 was involved.

11 votes muddies the waters. Could be a combination of R2 (with Lord Mortis' vote being superfluous) or both Dooku and Yoda with the 9.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:54 pm

triggercut wrote:
stessier wrote:I'm still hoping we get a final vote count. It seems like it should happen. It would have happened if things hadn't been moving so quickly. We should learn where the day ended imho.
Right. 12 votes tells us R2 was involved.

11 votes muddies the waters. Could be a combination of R2 (with Lord Mortis' vote being superfluous) or both Dooku and Yoda with the 9.

Actually, I don't expect to know the exact count. I would expect to see that people A->Z had votes on Chaos when the day ended. We would then have to infer what happened from there.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:55 pm

Trig - was it you or Austin that ran one with over votes? I was thinking it would be like that where we saw the day ended with only 7 people on a vote when it needed 9. So both Overvotes were used.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:57 pm

stessier wrote:Trig - was it you or Austin that ran one with over votes? I was thinking it would be like that where we saw the day ended with only 7 people on a vote when it needed 9. So both Overvotes were used.

I think we both did, although I could be wrong.

So yeah, if it was 8 visible votes, we know one thing. At 9, less so.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:58 pm

Lassr wrote:BB2112, don't forget to post the final vote count please.

No kidding. "Hey empire. Eat a shit sandwich and while you're at it, guess how the voting actually works." I had to look three time to make sure I didn't miss the vote count. I have say the force sucks.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:01 pm

The other way we're up sh*t creek without the emperor is that we can't ensure Mara Jade's loyalty any more. So we basically have to either hope that Luke or Mara is not in the game, or just hope we get Luke before he finds Mara. At least Vader (if in game) has the capability to sniff out Luke.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:02 pm

triggercut wrote:
Unagi wrote:
coopasonic was willing to vote scoop to n-1. Hard to see him as a Rebel.
Your point being that Count Dooku would have worried a "rebel".

Right?
Basically anyone in on the lynch train to n-1 seems pretty safe to me, although it'll bear checking to see who was out of town when it happened.

At any rate, I'd assume that the Rebs would jump off the Scoop train before it got to n-1 since they're worried over a possible Dooku decisive vote.

The second time Scoop went up far--to n-2--is more interesting. What scared the Rebs enough for Scoop to do a reveal like that?

1st. I think it's a joke to think Dooku would blindly cast his extra vote on a potential 'Special' on day 1.

2nd. I think it's dangerous to then take your belief that Dooku was the Rebel's Boogy Man - and take it to the point of: coopasonic was willing to vote scoop to n-1. Hard to see him as a Rebel.

Rememeber:
1. Scoop went to N-1, with coop's vote. 7:03 am

20 minutes later - triggercut removed his vote.

And this is who was left on the vote after that:
Unagi, {Stessier, Lassr}, Kenetickid, Chaosraven, Pr0ner, Remus West, Grundbegriff
(I link Lassr and stessier, because Scoop kept trying to)

And right after this moment - a few players tried to slam home the lynch on CR. (looking at you Triggercut and Newcastle)

Was the pr0ner/Scoop fight planned/staged. I don't think so. (I think pr0ner and Remus both smell better after the death of CR, i.e. The exposure of Scoop)

El Guapo... He's had a number of misteps (IMO, on how he's been reading some key players (trig and Scoop). I think he's worth a test (or scan).

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:11 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Lassr wrote:BB2112, don't forget to post the final vote count please.
No kidding. "Hey empire. Eat a shit sandwich and while you're at it, guess how the voting actually works." I had to look three time to make sure I didn't miss the vote count. I have say the force sucks.

this vote count should be up to the time the MOD received the PM to cast the secret ballet(s) that put Chaos over the edge. Nothing beyond.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:12 pm

Unagi wrote: 1st. I think it's a joke to think Dooku would blindly cast his extra vote on a potential 'Special' on day 1.

I totally agree, but what stessier would tell you if he were here was that Dooku and Yoda's overvotes are immovable once placed. If Dooku believed CR was a Rebel before CR hinted at his Empire-ness and role and placed a vote, he can't remove it even after CR's reveal.

That said, I would bet that if Dooku is active he would hold his vote until very very late in the proceedings.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:30 pm

catchign up from the result.

first, is damn dman damn damn damn. Second...any chance that CR was spoofing the emperor? Would he do such a thing? I really, really am hoping that right now. Because without him, we're up a creek.

Second- i can see no plausible reason to not lynch or shoot scoop tomorrow. I think a shot would be better, so we can go for a twofer tomorrow. I cant see a reason as to why the rebels would allow a emperor scoop alive and not use r2d2 then turn around and smack down CR. Scoop's got to go tomorrow.

And here i am holding hte bag on the CR train i feel. Since i was there and pushing for his lynching. I seriously thought we had him based on that dooku comment, i seriously, seriously thought we had him. I totally woudl understand if you guys decide to lynch me in the next day or so. In fact i might even recommend it so my presence doesnt add muck in the water here and provides a bit of clarity.

When i took my vote off CR i thought i was quick enough after his reveal to preserve him should r2 be about. Obviously i wasnt quick enough. And here its a bit of murky territory...how closely do we look at who was around? Or could it have been someone who popped in those orders and was hidden.

We need to look back on those trains see what we can figure out. I need to relook at the game and recalibrate at thigns now.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:32 pm

triggercut wrote:
Unagi wrote: 1st. I think it's a joke to think Dooku would blindly cast his extra vote on a potential 'Special' on day 1.
I totally agree, but what stessier would tell you if he were here was that Dooku and Yoda's overvotes are immovable once placed. If Dooku believed CR was a Rebel before CR hinted at his Empire-ness and role and placed a vote, he can't remove it even after CR's reveal.

That said, I would bet that if Dooku is active he would hold his vote until very very late in the proceedings.

Back to the point at hand (IMO, this isnt' at all about Dooku) - Is Coop Rebel/or Not - Based upon the N-1 moment.

Here is what I am willing to say. If Triggercut is Empire (and hence, the N-1 back-off wasn't a Rebel thing) THEN I can see how coop is also perhaps not a Rebel.

Conversly, if Triggercut is Rebel, I think that puts Coop right back in the hot-seat, as his "N-1" vote was immediately mitigated by:
(1. Coops' expressed desire for everyone to give Scoop a lot of space because Scoop can't do anything at work) and
(2. triggercuts removal of his vote.)

adding to that, that you are the one that want's us to say that Coop is likely not Rebel, it just sits wrong.

I'm amazed you are still "On Fire" with your analysis Triggercut, since you tried so hard to get us to lynch CR and save Scoop, I'd think you'd feel just a pinch of reservations at this point. Guess not.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:35 pm

I think Scoop's definitely got to go tomorrow, whether by lynch or shot or choke or what have you. Of course, we don't even know whether we have non-lynch alternatives available to us, but hopefully we have at least one.