Star Wars WW - Game Over - Rebel Victory

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:09 pm

Unagi wrote:
El Guapo wrote:As for the lie, at the time I didn't think that "Grund is definitely up to something" was a summary of the post he had deleted, just a different thought (though I guess that would beg the question of what he was "reiterating".
And, Newcastle's comment/confirmation that the "reiteration that Grund was up to something" was indeed "the gist of it"... when it totally wasn't.

LordMortis wrote:
Unagi wrote:
LordMortis wrote:out of curiosity, has any one ever kept a tally on how many post deleters were good guys versus bad guys.
Yes.

It's 7 bad guys vs 1 good guy.
/
Bubbles makes it 8.
Wow. Really? I'm trusting you aren't making that up. I'm going with the odds then

bubbles

And no that's not punishment. That's probability.

Mr Bubbles

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:11 pm

I am prolly going to throw my vote on Bubbles...

Not that I am 100 behind all the Unagi reasons...

The main looming one is he deleted a post.

Good or Bad... we sorta set an example it was ok with grund.

One I am thinking we need to remedy. In theory deleting posts is ok if there is no rule saying no post deleting. But for someone who spends 20 hours on rules and doesn't think to add that one, its kinda a kick to his junk. So we work on the honor system. We try not to get too meta with our defenses and accusations, we try not to delete posts and we try not to get personal on any level. (Those boozing comments still make me cry to sleep, lol)

If we don't enforce em, how long before people make a habit of deleting posts?

I'm not saying Bubbles is some rebel genius who deleted his post because he slipped... not saying he didn't... but to get that advantage/ability... would make life hell and force some of us to live on the boards trying to catch deleted posts. Plus it allows someone who does the chance the quote it, and CHANGE IT....

I dunno... this has way less to do with someones guilt or innocence, as the rules we all try to play by.

Do we let post deleting be an ok past-time or no? And even if we don't fry Bubbles for it, do we make some sort of hard and fast rule, that unless specified otherwise, all people who delete posts get killed?

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:15 pm

If post-editing is a no-no then so is post-deleting. Think before you hit Submit.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:25 pm

coopasonic wrote:Think before you hit Submit.

Where is the NBC PSA rainbow?

Of course I never think before I submit. Submitting is my thinking process.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:28 pm

Semaj wrote:Io we let post deleting be an ok past-time or no? And even if we don't fry Bubbles for it, do we make some sort of hard and fast rule, that unless specified otherwise, all people who delete posts get killed?

whatever. This isn't about punishment, it's about the post he made, what it said, that he was caught, how a wolf spoke about it, how he and the wolf first described it and how he now describes it. It's all of it combined.

If your vote is a 'punishment' vote, so be it. That's not what I am doing... in fact, I would absolutely Punish him for it if I felt he was a Wolf, and I would absolutely refrain from Punishing him for it if I felt he wasn't a Wolf. I am here to play WW, I am not here to lay down hard and fast rules where we all must kill a player that breaks them. No thanks. The rule is: Don't Edit, Don't Delete - and that's not written, it's just gamesmanship. That's all. Those that break it aren't Bad People or Junky Players or anything like that - they are just compelled to delete (or Edit) their posts... The Rule has always been: It's up to the players with what to do with a player that breaches it...

I don't really even recall the Grund deleted post.(Vaguely) It means nothing to me. If I didn't want to hang him for it, it's because the circumstances of the deletion made me think he was a Good Guy, OR I was already convinced he was a Good Guy and didn't care.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:59 pm

Lol the take the game too serious folks are out in force. Vote for me but think you,ll catch a bad guy

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:05 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Unagi wrote:
LordMortis wrote:out of curiosity, has any one ever kept a tally on how many post deleters were good guys versus bad guys.
Yes.

It's 7 bad guys vs 1 good guy.

Bubbles makes it 8.
Wow. Really? I'm trusting you aren't making that up. I'm going with the odds then

bubbles

And no that's not punishment. That's probability.

Not really. One vote off says nothing, but probability is RMC or someone. If you think one deleted post is anything that can be factored in as probability, I think you have a weak grasp.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:54 pm

Irt Mr Bubbles, I concur with Darth Vader.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:44 pm

I'll admit that I see Bubbles in a murky light but the folks I suspect the most seem happy enough to vote for him which always gives me pause. Since he is more towards my "watch carefully" rather than my "suspected Rebel" list I am going to hold off and see where this goes.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:47 pm

Maybe I'm wrong about Remus, or maybe not

I suspect the people trying to jump on me. Who was the first to jump on me.. OH right.. It was Newcastle, the rebel. I don't mind people jumping on me, but to stop the game and lecture me about what I did and waste a round is stupid. Vote me off if you think I'm rebel, but if a punishment vote is what you want, you may as well come out as rebel, because you stopped playing the game and reduced the odds just because you didn't like what I did.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:03 am

What if we think you're a rebel because of what you did?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:46 am

Mr Bubbles wrote:Maybe I'm wrong about Remus, or maybe not

What? What did you say about me that people are doubting? I was under the impression that the only thing you have really "said" about me was in the deleted post. What have you said about me today?

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:22 am

Isgrimnur wrote:What if we think you're a rebel because of what you did?

As I said if you think I'm rebel go ahead and vote for me, but this punishment vote things is rubbish. If you think I'm rebel, by all means. Obviously, I know I am not a rebel, but my post implicated Remus and put suspicion on Grund. That was the deleted vote. If you feel that warrants suspicion, by all means vote for me. I'm only irritated by those who feel I should be removed just because I deleted.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:36 am

Why does he get a response and I don't? I feel all ignored.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:32 pm

Votes Day 4

2 RMC ------------------>
3 Tru1cy --------------- >
4 Remus West --------->
7 Mr. Bubbles ---------->
8 Theohall ---------------> Mr. Bubbles
11 Coopasonic -----------> Mr. Bubbles
12 El Guapo -------------->
13 Lord Mortis -----------> Mr. Bubbles
15 Unagi ------------------>
16 Pr0ner -----------------> RMC
17 Semaj ----------------->
18 Kenetickid ------------>
20 Isgrimnur -------------> Mr. Bubbles
21 Grundbegriff --------->

RMC 1 <--------------- Pr0ner
Mr. Bubbles 4 <------ Theohall, Isgrimnur, Lord Mortis, Coopasonic

Dead:
1. Chaosraven - Day 1 Lynch
2. Stessier - Night 1 Kill
3. Scoop20906 - Day 2 Lynch
4. Lassr - Night 2 Kill
5. Qantaga - Day 3 Choked by Vader
6. Newcastle - Day 3 Lynch
7. Triggercut - Night 4 Kill

Players Remaining 14
Majority is 8
Deadline: Wednesday July 27, 9PM EST

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:22 pm

Remus West wrote:Why does he get a response and I don't? I feel all ignored.

If it makes you feel better, I suspect you are playing one hell of a game!

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:04 pm

Mr Bubbles wrote:
Remus West wrote:Why does he get a response and I don't? I feel all ignored.
If it makes you feel better, I suspect you are playing one hell of a game!

Doesn't help me understand what you suspect me of. tru1cy already laid out the absolute only manner in which I could be a Rebel. The fact that you either ignored or missed his post/point makes me think you are not paying attention OR that you want to use it against me at some point. As I am the only one that knows I am not Mara I am also the only Empire player that can afford to completely ignore that possibility.

I'm still puzzling out why I was stunned. I'm left with one of two choices - either it was to set me up or Newcastle panicked and hit me because he felt sure I would target him (he would have been correct on that score).

So, I'm left to wondering why you avoid providing your "suspicions" of me TODAY. I could care less about the contents of the deleted post. Any thoughts you had regarding me then were rendered moot by the stun-bot. Why is it that you want to plant vague suspicions of me today?

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:40 pm

Remus what do you make of Grund?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:59 pm

tru1cy wrote:Remus what do you make of Grund?

I don't know. There is nothing to make anything of. This level of absenteeism is higher than what has become typical for him so that worries me but at the same time there are other players MIA too (Kenetickid and Semaj). I think when it comes down to the end game we are going to be screwed either by needing these players that have been gone to make the final decisions or by them being Rebel and getting away with it because we have nothing on them. Admittedly, Grund has more of my attention that the other two simply due to his ability to seemingly buy himself days even when I feel he is obviously guilty. Right now though my comment about wanting to hear more from him was only that - I want to hear more from him so I can make up my mind.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:29 pm

When does Kinetickid NOT vanish during one of these games?

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:54 pm

Trusted - El Guapo, Unagi
Almost trusted - Remus West

Everyone else, in order of suspicion - RMC, Mr. Bubbles, Grundbegriff, Kenetickid, Lord Mortis, Coopasonic, Semaj, theohall, tru1cy, Isgrimnur

After Grundbegriff, the group of {KeneticKid, Lord Mortis, Coopasonic} are about tied. Semaj is, well, Semaj. I have no read on theohall, tru1cy hasn't done anything that pinged my radar, and while I still question why Isgrimnur wasn't voting for Newcastle, he gets a pass for now, at least until we find out what Mr. Bubbles is. If Bubbles is Empire, Isgrimnur rockets up my list.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:00 am

RMC 1 <--------------- Pr0ner
Mr. Bubbles 4 <------ Theohall, Isgrimnur, Lord Mortis, Coopasonic

Majority is 8
Deadline: Wednesday July 27, 9PM EST

pr0ner wrote:Trusted - El Guapo, Unagi
Almost trusted - Remus West

Everyone else, in order of suspicion - RMC, Mr. Bubbles, Grundbegriff, Kenetickid, Lord Mortis, Coopasonic, Semaj, theohall, tru1cy, Isgrimnur

...and none of the trusted or "trusted" have cast any votes. Not giving the rest of us much leadership.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:34 am

Trust and leadership are two different things.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:55 am

Isgrimnur wrote:Trust and leadership are two different things.

Indeed.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:08 am

I'm leading from behind.

Right now I could get on board with any of RMC, Bubbles, or Grund. I've been going back and forth on which one. The case against Bubbles seems as reasonable as any, and his vague intimations on Remus are kind of strange at this point.

On the other hand we do still have too many quiet people, and Remus is right that that's likely to make the end-game more difficult. RMC is suspicious *and* quiet, which makes him a reasonable target at the moment.

RMC

.

I've been putting off a thread re-read, but I'm thinking that'll have to be tonight. I could easily switch to Bubbles or Grund (the Grund portion of the re-read should be pretty quick

).

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:34 am

Votes Day 4

2 RMC ------------------>
3 Tru1cy --------------- >
4 Remus West --------->
7 Mr. Bubbles ---------->
8 Theohall ---------------> Mr. Bubbles
11 Coopasonic -----------> Mr. Bubbles
12 El Guapo --------------> RMC
13 Lord Mortis -----------> Mr. Bubbles
15 Unagi ------------------>
16 Pr0ner -----------------> RMC
17 Semaj ----------------->
18 Kenetickid ------------>
20 Isgrimnur -------------> Mr. Bubbles
21 Grundbegriff --------->

RMC 2 <--------------- Pr0ner, El Guapo
Mr. Bubbles 4 <------ Theohall, Isgrimnur, Lord Mortis, Coopasonic

Dead:
1. Chaosraven - Day 1 Lynch
2. Stessier - Night 1 Kill
3. Scoop20906 - Day 2 Lynch
4. Lassr - Night 2 Kill
5. Qantaga - Day 3 Choked by Vader
6. Newcastle - Day 3 Lynch
7. Triggercut - Night 4 Kill

Players Remaining 14
Majority is 8
Deadline: Wednesday July 27, 9PM EST

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:48 am

El Guapo wrote:I'm leading from behind.

Right now I could get on board with any of RMC, Bubbles, or Grund. I've been going back and forth on which one. The case against Bubbles seems as reasonable as any, and his vague intimations on Remus are kind of strange at this point.

I can see you haven't played too many games. I've played many games with Remus where he played a masterful game and my suspicions are of the fact that I know he is crafty and intelligent in his play. My main suspicion was that he was sure that Chaos was innocent, while most people thought he was guilty. My thought process was he knew he was innocent, because as a Rebel you know those things. I could be entirely wrong and as Remus pointed out that there is only one way that he could be rebel, but I've been burned by him before, which leads me to never underestimate him.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:56 am

Mr Bubbles wrote:
El Guapo wrote:I'm leading from behind.

Right now I could get on board with any of RMC, Bubbles, or Grund. I've been going back and forth on which one. The case against Bubbles seems as reasonable as any, and his vague intimations on Remus are kind of strange at this point.
I can see you haven't played too many games. I've played many games with Remus where he played a masterful game and my suspicions are of the fact that I know he is crafty and intelligent in his play. My main suspicion was that he was sure that Chaos was innocent, while most people thought he was guilty. My thought process was he knew he was innocent, because as a Rebel you know those things. I could be entirely wrong and as Remus pointed out that there is only one way that he could be rebel, but I've been burned by him before, which leads me to never underestimate him.

What a silly post. Bubbles, you know 100% certain that everything I did on day 1 I did as Empire. That means my interaction with Chaosraven and Scoop was done as an Empire player. This is not the careful Bubbles I've seen in the past.

Mr Bubbles

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:00 pm

Bubbles you know Rebels cannot stun other Rebels, so unless Remus was switched like I suggested he can't be a rebel.

Really want to vote for Grund or KK at this point

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:04 pm

Yeah, Remus is right. I said your suspicions of Remus are "strange" because the Leia-shot proved that he was Empire, at least as of day 3. As Mortis (and others) have noted, it's *possible* that he's Mara Jade and was converted on night 3. BUT (a) as I've noted, that's improbable; and (b) it's still 100% certain that he was Empire on day 1.

If you'd care to explain your basis for thinking that Remus is Mara Jade, I'd be interested in hearing it. However, throwing suspicions around willy-nilly like that seems strange and rebel-like ("hey, maybe I can cast suspicion on X").

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:06 pm

Mr Bubbles wrote:
El Guapo wrote:I'm leading from behind.

Right now I could get on board with any of RMC, Bubbles, or Grund. I've been going back and forth on which one. The case against Bubbles seems as reasonable as any, and his vague intimations on Remus are kind of strange at this point.
I can see you haven't played too many games. I've played many games with Remus where he played a masterful game and my suspicions are of the fact that I know he is crafty and intelligent in his play. My main suspicion was that he was sure that Chaos was innocent, while most people thought he was guilty. My thought process was he knew he was innocent, because as a Rebel you know those things. I could be entirely wrong and as Remus pointed out that there is only one way that he could be rebel, but I've been burned by him before, which leads me to never underestimate him.

Also this is double-silly because even disregarding the Leia stun, if Remus knows that Chaos is innocent by virtue of Remus being a rebel, then Remus would want to fan that suspicion, not allay it. Saying that Chaos is innocent on day 1 is evidence of imperialosity, not rebelitude.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:31 pm

Did I miss the stun message?

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:33 pm

Apparently, yes.

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:03 pm

bb2112 wrote:Suddenly there is buzzing sound coming from somewhere in the room. Instantly recognizing the noise, chaos erupts. A syringe sized bot comes whizzing through the air and heads straight for Remus. Before anyone can do anything other than yell the bot slams into the back of Remus's head and then there is a bright flash. Remus crumples to the floor stunned. The bot falls to the floor its powercell drained.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:35 pm

Ok now I deserve to be lynched. Although I'm not a rebel, but that deserve that my head come off ten times more than the post deleting for this oversight.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:37 pm

Also there was significant discussion afterwards as to why the rebels stunned Remus, and why then.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:39 pm

Why Stun Remus and leave him alive? This keeps bothering me… Newcastle wasn’t afraid he had information because he didn’t share anything? Why not stun Unagi & Triggercut? Triggercut with his over vote ability would have made more sense. Newcastle is a vet and won’t just stun because he was painted with a target.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:43 pm

Why stun remus and leave him alive? I would think to confuse the Imperials. Or they had a change of heart and read into a post from someone and decided to keep him alive as opposed to someone else they believed had a greater role than remus. As a bad guy in many games that was often the case. If you had to plan to kill Remus, but stumbled upon information that may point to someone else being the Emperor why wouldn't you switch your vote to the other more perceived high value target. I think they felt they had some new information from a scan or read into a post.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:33 pm

Mr Bubbles wrote:Why stun remus and leave him alive?

Aside from see mara, stun mara, convert mara, which I think is a very real possibility, the only thing I can come up with panic. I'm just having a hard time convincing that the conversion happened. Panic sounds more plausible. "I'm going to die, I might as well use my power" but the conversion could have been the luck of the dice followed by some crafty engineering.

Now that we're taking so long, Bubbles is actually looking more an more innocent irrespective of the post deletion and that's taking me back to Grund or RMC.

I also fear that matter how things work lack of participation is going to kill Empire. MIA

Grund and KK. As good as MIA Semaj. If the rebels aren't among them then we are stuck anyway. Any debate is useless with Trig dead.

Grund

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:33 pm

RMC

There is absolutely no reason to keep him another day.

Bubbles should be your target tomorrow.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:38 pm

Guap and Unagi say RMC then, it's RMC and I hope we get enough participation. I still say Grund or KK at this point.

RMC