2012 Elections

Mr. Fed · Post by **Mr. Fed** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:56 pm

Jon Stewart is on fire.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:21 am

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:Poor Ron Paul.

"Huntsman was the only Mormon running in the straw poll, and he came in second amongst Mormons."

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:03 am

Exodor wrote:I'm glad the bottom-feeders can still entertain us

Rick Santorum wrote:Our founders said [our] rights were given to us to pursue life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Does anyone here believe that first inalienable right is as whole as it was at the time of our founding? It isn’t. Does anyone believe that our freedom is as whole as it was at the time of our founders? It is not.
Yes, I'm sure Michelle Bachmann, Herman Cain and Barack Obama would agree that they would have had more freedom in 1776.

What a load of Santorum.

She will probably wait to tell us how till September, right after we hear Obama's fantasy plan.

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:32 am

Exodor wrote:I'm glad the bottom-feeders can still entertain us

Rick Santorum wrote:Our founders said [our] rights were given to us to pursue life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Does anyone here believe that first inalienable right is as whole as it was at the time of our founding? It isn’t. Does anyone believe that our freedom is as whole as it was at the time of our founders? It is not.
Yes, I'm sure Michelle Bachmann, Herman Cain and Barack Obama would agree that they would have had more freedom in 1776.

What a load of Santorum.

You are correct when it comes to women and minorities, but I think it's generally accepted that the definition of citizen or "man" has expanded as a result of evolving times (and a civil war). I believe the point he was trying to make was that government has expanded beyond anything the founders either intended or expected. What happens when government expands? Freedom shrinks.

Franklin once said when asked what kind of government they had given us "a Republic, if you can keep it". Well... I think it's safe to say we have failed due to a couple centuries worth of career politicians and a population that has grown dependent of a government taking care of them from cradle to grave. (and imho this was the politicians' intent since at least a quarter way through the 1800's)

Combustible Lemur · Post by **Combustible Lemur** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:56 am

Freedom of expression and religion are certainly greater now, I would say freedom from oppression is greater now, as well as freedom in economic mobility. The nanny state is certainly larger but it can be argued that creates greater freedom from crime and poverty. Sure we we've lost lots of freedoms from government intervention but complain about that to native Americans.

Sent from my incredible'

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:27 am

msduncan wrote:
Exodor wrote:I'm glad the bottom-feeders can still entertain us

Rick Santorum wrote:Our founders said [our] rights were given to us to pursue life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Does anyone here believe that first inalienable right is as whole as it was at the time of our founding? It isn’t. Does anyone believe that our freedom is as whole as it was at the time of our founders? It is not.
Yes, I'm sure Michelle Bachmann, Herman Cain and Barack Obama would agree that they would have had more freedom in 1776.

What a load of Santorum.
You are correct when it comes to women and minorities, but I think it's generally accepted that the definition of citizen or "man" has expanded as a result of evolving times (and a civil war). I believe the point he was trying to make was that government has expanded beyond anything the founders either intended or expected. What happens when government expands? Freedom shrinks.

Franklin once said when asked what kind of government they had given us "a Republic, if you can keep it". Well... I think it's safe to say we have failed due to a couple centuries worth of career politicians and a population that has grown dependent of a government taking care of them from cradle to grave. (and imho this was the politicians' intent since at least a quarter way through the 1800's)

"Except for women and minorities" is a pretty big caveat to the "freedom has shrunk since the founding" argument. Another way of phrasing that with the caveat would be "For most people, freedom has grown since the founding."

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:44 am

Tweet Your Questions For The Candidates

http://www.politico.com/2012-election/r ... an-debate/" target="_blank

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:24 am

Bachmann: I'll bring back $2 gas

She's either just immensely stupid, is willing to say ANY old horse shit to get elected, or both. Who elevates these obvious morons to positions of power? Do people WANT their leaders to be overtly ignorant? Is it the "only nerds are smart, and we hates nerds" high school syndrome? Too dumb ourselves to recognize a moron when confronted with one?

GAH.

How sad to see "anti-intelligence" as an apparently doable platform on which to run. Bush Jr., Palin, Perry, Bachmann...they all seem to not only practically glow with stupidity (whether that is a facade or not is another discussion), but to relish and promote that image! WTF man. Depressing...to me at least.

Gor, let's just cut right to the chase and try to elect the biggest boob we can find. We MIGHT can do better than what has been coming out of the Republican woodwork lately, but I am beginning to wonder.

Qualifications:
- Poor pronunciation is not required, but certainly preferred (mispronounced words that don't exist = bonus points)
- Some kind of folksy accent...Southern would work, certainly Texas, or even Midwestern housewife. Anything distinctive enough to get those who will vote for someone BECAUSE of an accent will do.
- Facts are for elitists and eggheads. You know...scientist types. Ability to be fast and loose with these "f" words is a must for anyone running on the "Ima Dumbass" platform. Jumbling and mixing up facts is ok, but much preferred to just make shit up. This is America, dammit! Nobody has the right to tell YOU what is or isn't true! John Wayne, John Paul Jones, or John Wayne Gacy? Who the hell cares what the differences are? I'll tell ya who - eggheads, elitists and COMMUNISTS, that's who!
- None...the "less is more" works better for the "ID" candidate, or better still, some kind of mediocre to poor performance at a previous government job. This last part can be turned into a "see, I am on record as having SUCKED at governing...WHICH IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF PERSON WE NEED IN WASHINGTON!! Do you really want someone that is GOOD at being a politician running this great country? OF COURSE NOT" slogan.

Freezer-TPF- · Post by **Freezer-TPF-** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:48 am

Maybe Bachmann thinks she's running for Student Council president. "Free parking for seniors! Chocolate cake in the lunchroom every day! Less homework, more recess!"

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:09 pm

Freezer-TPF- wrote:Maybe Bachmann thinks she's running for Student Council president. "Free parking for seniors! Chocolate cake in the lunchroom every day! Less homework, more recess!"

Energy Independence and cheap fuel by subsidizing Corn for ethanol and ethanol for gas! (which we had already been doing since Carter...)

I'd like to see a plan run for president. Someone to say it's not me but it's this that needs to happen. Shit, you take the job. The job sucks. But get this done. And I'll do my part to make it happen. Bring industry back to the states. Reduce senatorial success being gauged by their ability to bring pork to their state. Spend federal dollars rebuilding a decaying infrastructure that is designed to rebuild industry in the states. Dismantle our Wallstreet, ahem, globalist grow or die approach economic success.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:27 pm

The Daily Beast is saying that a Bachmann staffer is a terrorist.

Peter E. Waldron, one of Bachmann’s evangelical staff members who helped her win the Ames Straw Poll in Iowa this past Saturday, has a criminal record for terrorism charges. Waldron was arrested in Uganda for possession of rifles and other ammo in February 2006, several days before the country held its first big multiparty elections in 20 years. He spent 37 days in prison until the charges were dropped when, according to Waldron, the Bush administration and other friends intervened.

At least Obama can legitimately give this guy a fist-bump.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:03 pm

Smoove_B wrote:The Daily Beast is saying that a Bachmann staffer is a terrorist.

Peter E. Waldron, one of Bachmann’s evangelical staff members who helped her win the Ames Straw Poll in Iowa this past Saturday, has a criminal record for terrorism charges. Waldron was arrested in Uganda for possession of rifles and other ammo in February 2006, several days before the country held its first big multiparty elections in 20 years. He spent 37 days in prison until the charges were dropped when, according to Waldron, the Bush administration and other friends intervened.
At least Obama can legitimately give this guy a fist-bump.

What the hell was he doing in Uganda? Is he from there?

And to temper my little rant from above, instead of just bitching and moaning, I would like to add that I personally, bleeding heart liberal that I am, would consider a long hard look at a Chris Christie type if they were to run. Although my little red flags go up immediately, because I also remember saying something similar about John McCain before he entered the last nomination race. Like Howard Dean, something bad happened to McCain after he put his hat in...train went completely off the tracks and I lost all respect that I had for him previously.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:06 pm

Freezer-TPF- wrote:Maybe Bachmann thinks she's running for Student Council president. "Free parking for seniors! Chocolate cake in the lunchroom every day! Less homework, more recess!"

More recess! Yea!

"Oh, and remember this Friday is lottery day when for the good of the nation some of you will be sent to the uranium mines so all may enjoy $1.99 a gallon gasoline in this wonderful country!"

Boo!

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:14 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote:Like Howard Dean, something bad happened to McCain after he put his hat in...train went completely off the tracks and I lost all respect that I had for him previously.

I never understood the great turning on Dean. To this day I'm still confounded at the kerfuffle Internet unleashing of the hounds of hell on him. And for what? John Kerry? Show some passion, will you, Mr Dean? We'll learn ya'.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:17 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: What the hell was he doing in Uganda? Is he from there?

According to Fark, proactively spreading American democracy by supporting a Ugandan 2nd Amendment right.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:28 pm

Smoove_B wrote:The Daily Beast is saying that a Bachmann staffer is a terrorist.

Peter E. Waldron, one of Bachmann’s evangelical staff members who helped her win the Ames Straw Poll in Iowa this past Saturday, has a criminal record for terrorism charges. Waldron was arrested in Uganda for possession of rifles and other ammo in February 2006, several days before the country held its first big multiparty elections in 20 years. He spent 37 days in prison until the charges were dropped when, according to Waldron, the Bush administration and other friends intervened.
At least Obama can legitimately give this guy a fist-bump.

First, it's a "terrorist fist *jab*". Get your terrorist gestures right.

Second, FWIW the article says it's unclear what exactly he really did there. He was brought up on terrorism charges related to gun smuggling, but from the article it sounds like people don't know a ton about what really happened. Terrorism charges in a country that was just transitioning to democracy could be true, or they could trumped up charges about something else.

Mr. Fed · Post by **Mr. Fed** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:41 pm

Huntsman, far in the back, says "fuck it" and commits Modern GOP Suicide.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:48 pm

Mr. Fed wrote:Huntsman, far in the back, says "fuck it" and commits Modern GOP Suicide.

I read an interesting article that Huntsman's really banking on the 2016 election. Namely, that he's just getting his name in the conversation. The idea is that his best bet is that the GOP nominates someone far right a la Bachmann or Perry or something that gets trounced by Obama in 2012, and then chastened by extremist defeat the party seeks to nominate a relative centrist in 2016 to maximize chances of victory.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:50 pm

Mr. Fed wrote:Huntsman, far in the back, says "fuck it" and commits Modern GOP Suicide.

Oh man. Toast is he.

FWIW, I would ALMOST vote for the dude, just because of this:

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/ ... heme-song/" target="_blank

That is not easy (for me at least) to play due to the syncopated rhythm of the bass line. Full on respect! Go man, Go!

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:03 pm

Mr. Fed wrote:Huntsman, far in the back, says "fuck it" and commits Modern GOP Suicide.

Hasn't Romney taken the same positions?

What is it about Mormons and their detestable respect for science?

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:59 pm

Smoove_B wrote:The Daily Beast is saying that a Bachmann staffer is a terrorist.

Peter E. Waldron, one of Bachmann’s evangelical staff members who helped her win the Ames Straw Poll in Iowa this past Saturday, has a criminal record for terrorism charges. Waldron was arrested in Uganda for possession of rifles and other ammo in February 2006, several days before the country held its first big multiparty elections in 20 years. He spent 37 days in prison until the charges were dropped when, according to Waldron, the Bush administration and other friends intervened.

Oh, dear. I really hope he wasn't connected with the hard-core American evangelicals who have been connected with Uganda's kill-the-gays legislation.

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:49 am

Carpet_pissr wrote:
Mr. Fed wrote:Huntsman, far in the back, says "fuck it" and commits Modern GOP Suicide.
Oh man. Toast is he.

FWIW, I would ALMOST vote for the dude, just because of this:

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/ ... heme-song/" target="_blank

That is not easy (for me at least) to play due to the syncopated rhythm of the bass line. Full on respect! Go man, Go!

So you guys are basically single issue voters. If you are religious, then you are out. If you are not religious, then you are in?

Bonus points for making fun of religion*, right?

*Christian

Combustible Lemur · Post by **Combustible Lemur** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:54 am

As others have pointed out. It's not the religion. Lot's of people are religious without abandoning science and reason. The choice to believe in creationism demonstrates a basic failure of reason and is less a single point complaint than a glaring example of deeper decision making deficits.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:07 pm

Combustible Lemur wrote:As others have pointed out over and over again. It's not the religion.

FTFY.

If msd wants to make this about Christianity then whatever, he's basically derailing and changing the subject.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with being religious, and everything to do with trying to find a world class leader capable of leading a free and open society. Taken at face value, some of these characters basically talk like a fundamentalist country would be a good thing. And I don't care what religion we're talking about, fundamentalism leads to extremes and it would probably be best if we didn't have to worry about a new set of crusades.

Being religious? Fine.

Campaigning on the strengths of those beliefs? Bizarre. Although plays well with people of the same religion, natch.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:21 pm

Mr. Fed wrote:Huntsman, far in the back, says "fuck it" and commits Modern GOP Suicide.

This message set a new record for 2012 GOP tweeting by gaining 3,600 retweets, making it the most retweeted tweet from a GOP candidate since we started collecting data at the start of the year. He even beat @SarahPalinUSA‘s best tweet ever by 50%. When you exceed Sarah Palin on Twitter, you know you are doing something right.

What’s the value of a hot tweet and tons of retweets? It translates directly into new followers, and new followers are a chance for a candidate to reach more people with fundraising requests. Yesterday @JonHuntsman gained 4,275 followers. The only candidate to ever top that in a single day was Rick Perry on his announcement day. Huntsman managed to increase his total follower count by 32% with just 90 characters, making it the most effective tweet we’ve ever seen from a politician. I’ll use that fact whenever I hear someone say “What can a politician achieve in 140 characters or less?”

Sarah Palin is no longer the queen of the twits?

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:40 pm

So, can anyone actually find where Huntsman's platform is? His jon2012 campaign site, at best seems, to attack Romney and Obama for their policies and beliefs while not really stating anything of Huntsman.

Any suggestions?

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:22 pm

Mr. Fed wrote:Jon Stewart is on fire.

Awesome...OTOH, when is the last time John Steward wasn't on fire? The dude is a comedic perpetual fireball.

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:15 pm

I understand now why Rick Perry tried to destroy higher learning in Texas - he was a terrible stuident

A source in Texas passed The Huffington Post Perry's transcripts from his years at Texas A&M University. The future politician did not distinguish himself much in the classroom. While he later became a student leader, he had to get out of academic probation to do so. He rarely earned anything above a C in his courses -- earning a C in U.S. History, a D in Shakespeare, and a D in the principles of economics. Perry got a C in gym.

A C in gym.

Wait. Gym in college?

a D in the principles of economics.

This explains quite a bit.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:29 pm

BS and BA both required 4 credit hours of gym classes where I went to school. I took volleyball and bowling for my BS.

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:34 pm

Basketball, Football (well, Theory of Basketball, and Theory of Football...), Bowling and Badminton/Pickleball were my four collegiate physical education required credits for my Bachelor of Science in Mechanical Engineering.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:56 pm

Exodor wrote:I understand now why Rick Perry tried to destroy higher learning in Texas - he was a terrible stuident
...
This explains quite a bit.

I'll consider this sort of analysis noteworthy if and only if Obama's transcripts from Occidental, Columbia, and Harvard are released. Until that day, we have little basis for evaluating the possible relevance or grokking the function from grades to tokens of effectiveness.

(Indeed, even if we had full transcripts for everyone, it wouldn't be at all surprising to find that the world of correlations is messy.)

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:01 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:I'll consider this sort of analysis noteworthy if and only if Obama's transcripts from Occidental, Columbia, and Harvard are released. Until that day, we have little basis for evaluating the possible relevance or grokking the function from grades to tokens of effectiveness.

(Indeed, even if we had full transcripts for everyone, it wouldn't be at all surprising to find that the world of correlations is messy.)

And pointless given the difference in grading standards at different institutions and the rampant grade inflation today.

Still, 26 C's?

Mostly it's an excuse for snarky comments about Perry.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:03 pm

Exodor wrote:And pointless given the difference in grading standards at different institutions and the rampant grade inflation today.
Still, 26 C's?
Mostly it's an excuse for snarky comments about Perry.

I understand. And it is, indeed, a most unimpressive transcript.

By the way--

Michele Bachmann:RepublicanBase::BarackObama:DemocratBase
Michele Bachmann:ExperienceAndAchievementPriorToRun::BarackObama:ExperienceAndAchievementPriorToRun

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:04 pm

Exodor wrote:Still, 26 C's?

Obviously you have never taken gym. Extremely difficult subject matter.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:07 pm

Exodor wrote:Still, 26 C's?

I'm thinking 34 healthy C's is about perfect.

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:14 pm

Grundbegriff wrote: Michele Bachmann:RepublicanBase::BarackObama:DemocratBase

Michele Bachmann makes her living catering to the fringes of the Republican base. Obama campaigned as a centrist despite many liberals projecting their hopes onto his vague rhetoric.

Michele Bachmann:ExperienceAndAchievementPriorToRun::BarackObama:ExperienceAndAchievementPriorToRun

That's not really fair either. Bachmann's been in Congress for 4 years and served in the Minnesota Senate from 2001-2006. She's got far more legislative experience than Obama did when running for President.

Mr. Fed · Post by **Mr. Fed** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:17 pm

I see he got an A in "Improv. of Learning."

And, to be fair to him, he didn't take only gut classes; he took some science and math classes that I would have avoided like the plague.

Still, at least in most modern American universities, I suspect that someone who can't pull a B in a liberal arts class isn't really making an effort.

Of course, occasionally I failed to make an effort. So I shouldn't throw the first stone or anything.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:13 pm

Let's recall, too, that this seems to be some sort of prerequisite for high office....

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:29 pm

Is Obama the modern Neville Chamberlain? This columnist believes so.

Chamberlain did one bold thing. He finally realized he was not the right man to lead Britain in dangerous times. He resigned so that Churchill could take over. There is one bold thing Obama could and should do. He should bow out of the race for reelection and throw his support behind Hillary Clinton—the leader we should have chosen in the first place

While Obama the Appeaser might resemble Chamberlain, I do not think Hillary is Churchill material.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:32 pm

The fact that even Terry McAuliffe was on Obama's back this week suggests that if the Clintons smell blood in the water, Hillary will run an I Told You So campaign to try to correct the mistake of '08.