[WW] Fellowship of the Ring II - Conclusion

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:15 pm

	\|______Evil Act______	\|______EvilScan______	\|______FellowshipDeed______	\|______OnetimeEvent______	\|______Holds Ring______
Journey(N)1	cap tru1cy	?	scan Remus		Good
Chapter(D)1			HuntOrc		Good
Journey(N)2	cap bb2112	Bubbles	scan redrun		Good
Chapter(D)2			HuntOrc		Good
Journey(N)3	declined/thwarted	moot	scan Qantaga	Imprison Bubbles	Evil
Chapter(D)3			Scout...		Evil
Journey(N)4
Chapter(D)4
Journey(N)5
Chapter(D)5
Journey(N)6
Chapter(D)6
Journey(N)7
Chapter(D)7

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:15 pm

redrun wrote:
Newcastle wrote: Lagom, at what point will you accept night orders - after the last vote or after you post the writeup? Does imprisionment make any difference?

I'll accept Journey orders even before a Chapter is closed, say, if someone knew they would ezmate and didn't want the game to stall because of it.

Imprisonment might render a Journey order or a Chapter vote illegal, in which case I'd need a new order/vote.

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:17 pm

rshetts2 wrote:Does Aragorns protection work against Gollums "steal the ring" power?

No. Aragorn only protects against the Hunt (Capture/Kill).

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:17 pm

Remus West (4) - theohall, coopasonic, rshetts2, triggercut, bb2112, Grundbegriff
Qantaga (2) - Grundbegriff, rshetts2, RMC

Majority is 7

Deadline is Friday October 21st, at 9 p.m. Central European Time (GMT +1)

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:07 pm

send remus west scouting

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:10 pm

tru1cy wrote: send remus west scouting

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:41 pm

I put my vote on sending Remus to scout when I realized that such a vote wouldn't put him close to being sent out. I think I was third or fourth to vote for him. Not even near n-1 yet.

As for scanning me, go ahead....but realize this: it's a wasted scan as I am a member of the Fellowship. We are gambling a great deal on the probability that Saruman is one of the 2 Team Shadow we've discovered. What if we send Remus and Qantaga scouting and Bubbles remains imprisoned?

I'm Fellowship, but have good reason to keep the remainder of my identity secret for the time being.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:48 pm

triggercut wrote:We are gambling a great deal on the probability that Saruman is one of the 2 Team Shadow we've discovered. What if we send Remus and Qantaga scouting and Bubbles remains imprisoned?

What are we gambling exactly? Do you propose just let them live, kill others and just save them for later? We don;t have any way to know if either of them is Saruman until they are dead. I'm not sure what you think is a better alternative?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:22 pm

coopasonic wrote:
triggercut wrote:We are gambling a great deal on the probability that Saruman is one of the 2 Team Shadow we've discovered. What if we send Remus and Qantaga scouting and Bubbles remains imprisoned?
What are we gambling exactly? Do you propose just let them live, kill others and just save them for later? We don;t have any way to know if either of them is Saruman until they are dead. I'm not sure what you think is a better alternative?

Yeah. What if?

There are three evils, and we know two evils.

Obviously we're going to burn through those two before we do anything else.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:02 pm

We're up against a time limit here fellas; this isn't a regular WW game. We don't keep going when Shadow gets down to one. We stop when we hit a number of turns. So, if Saruman isn't Remus, and if he isn't Qantaga, we won't be able to take action until Chapter 5 begins. Will we still have Gandalf? I hope so, but Aragorn can't protect him every turn. We may have two shots to find Saruman out of a pool of 7 or 8 players without guidance from Gandalf's scans. Scan me now and you get another trusted player...but not the third member of Team Shadow, which is what we should be trying to use Gandalf's limited remaining scans to do.

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:09 pm

Remus West (5) - theohall, coopasonic, rshetts2, triggercut, bb2112, Grundbegriff, tru1cy
Qantaga (2) - Grundbegriff, rshetts2, RMC

Majority is 7

Deadline is Friday October 21st, at 9 p.m. Central European Time (GMT +1)

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:09 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:Obviously we're going to burn through those two before we do anything else.

This is my biggest issue. You are going to "burn through those two" (well, one of us anyway, as if I am the first to go you may pass on Qantaga since my death proves theohall is lying). So what is the play by Evil here? They need four more misses - specifically a miss being anyone other than Saruman.

You send a Fellowship me/Qantaga to my/his death. That's one. You then send theohall to his. That's two. If this play outed the real Gandalf then they simply kill him and we lack scans with which to direct the final two lynches.

You lynch Qantaga and he IS Evil but not Saruman. You then lynch me believing theohall to be true (in spite of the fact that he will continue to live). Then, seeing I am Fellowship you lynch an Evil theohall who is not Saruman. That's three of the four misses gone.

I see no way around lynching one of his scans but be prepared for what you'll need to consider once he is proven false.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:24 pm

Remus West is now making me laugh really hard knowing he is a Servant. At least he is trying to find some way to stay alive. Too bad it will not work for him.

Anyway, where is pr0ner? His utter silence disturbs me and he looks like a better candidate to scan at this point, because of his silence.

He will probably post now that this is mentioned which fits his usual Evil modus operandi.

Everyone else seems to be participating outside of Qantaga, who is a known Servant.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:35 pm

theohall wrote:Remus West is now making me laugh really hard knowing he is a Servant. At least he is trying to find some way to stay alive. Too bad it will not work for him.

Anyway, where is pr0ner? His utter silence disturbs me and he looks like a better candidate to scan at this point, because of his silence.

He will probably post now that this is mentioned which fits his usual Evil modus operandi.

Everyone else seems to be participating outside of Qantaga, who is a known Servant.

Stay alive? Not even slightly. Losing me doesn't cost the Fellowship anything. Lynching me proves you are lying. I don't want to stay alive. I want to be lynched so the rest of the players know where they stand with you. My death is the absolute only method I have to prove you lie. I'd say the same about Qantaga but for some reason you keep coming back my way from him and I begin to wonder if you haven't tried a double blind scheme of naming a partner Evil in hopes you get revealed and they then are provided cover.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:35 pm

Newcastle wrote:Another question as well: what happened last night? There was no capture/kill? Did they pass (is that even an option?)

LAGOM - CAN EVIL PASS IN THE EVENING...IE DECIDE TO NEITHER CAPTURE NOR KILL? AND IN EFFECT CHOOSE TO DO NOTHING?

I know you said may earlier; but i just want it crystal clear (pretend i am a dumb american

Do we have a clear answer to this question?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:42 pm

Thinking out loud here....

When we Scout Saruman, Bubbles will immediately be free.
Gollum will then be tempted to use his one-time ability to steal the Ring from Bubbles, so Bubbles will be under pressure to pass the Ring.

Maybe Bubbles will pass it, and maybe he won't.

If he passes it, the next hobbit Ringbearer will have to decide whether to pass it back to Bubbles or pass it to a third candidate.

If Gollum targets Bubbles but Bubbles has passed it to Merry, then Gollum will fail.
And if Gollum then targets Merry (by dumb luck) but Merry has passed it back to Bubbles, then Gollum will fail.
If, however, Gollum targets Bubbles over and over and over, then sooner or later he's going to strike gold (either by catching Bubbles with the Ring, or by being mistaken for a hobbit and being given the Ring).

That's our greatest risk.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:54 pm

triggercut wrote:I put my vote on sending Remus to scout when I realized that such a vote wouldn't put him close to being sent out. I think I was third or fourth to vote for him. Not even near n-1 yet.

As for scanning me, go ahead....but realize this: it's a wasted scan as I am a member of the Fellowship. We are gambling a great deal on the probability that Saruman is one of the 2 Team Shadow we've discovered. What if we send Remus and Qantaga scouting and Bubbles remains imprisoned?

I'm Fellowship, but have good reason to keep the remainder of my identity secret for the time being.

Oh really? And who could you be that is so worthy of hiding in the shadows? If youre our missing hobbit why not come forward and give Frodo more pass options? Youre safe from death in that case and remaining hidden doesnt help Frodo and the Fellowship.
Are you implying that youre a special? Gandalf has come forward so that leaves Aragorn and Boromir. I dont think youre Aragorn, you havent been playing that type of game. Youve been playing a " look at me " kind of game and thus that leaves us with Boromir. Now thats a good reason to stay hidden, isnt it. Unless of course youre flat out lying and youre evil.
Yep, I think thats it, youre evil and playing the Im good dont waste a scan on me game. The reason you cant come out in the open? Clearly who ever you try to pretend being could out you. Youre welcome to prove me wrong but since Im sure you wont that only further convinces me youre evil.
With the info on your posts laid out earlier and your recent cries to stay hidden, I believe that you are in fact our 3rd servant.

Theo, I think that we definitely need to scan Triggercut, tonite. I for one am now convinced he is Servant #3.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:57 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:Thinking out loud here....

When we Scout Saruman, Bubbles will immediately be free.
Gollum will then be tempted to use his one-time ability to steal the Ring from Bubbles, so Bubbles will be under pressure to pass the Ring.

Maybe Bubbles will pass it, and maybe he won't.

If he passes it, the next hobbit Ringbearer will have to decide whether to pass it back to Bubbles or pass it to a third candidate.

If Gollum targets Bubbles but Bubbles has passed it to Merry, then Gollum will fail.
And if Gollum then targets Merry (by dumb luck) but Merry has passed it back to Bubbles, then Gollum will fail.
If, however, Gollum targets Bubbles over and over and over, then sooner or later he's going to strike gold (either by catching Bubbles with the Ring, or by being mistaken for a hobbit and being given the Ring).

That's our greatest risk.

Really Grund? A mistake on rules? The steal ability is a one shot, as clearly laid out in the rules. I find that kind of interesting.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:12 pm

rshetts, you're wrong of course.

You should be used to that by now though.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:16 pm

rshetts2 wrote:Oh really? And who could you be that is so worthy of hiding in the shadows? If youre our missing hobbit why not come forward and give Frodo more pass options? Youre safe from death in that case and remaining hidden doesnt help Frodo and the Fellowship.

He could also be Gollum.

Theo, I think that we definitely need to scan Triggercut, tonite. I for one am now convinced he is Servant #3.

Don't be so easily convinced. Embrace not only what we know, but what we don't, or it'll close your mind to possibilities that don't happen to comport with your expectations.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:17 pm

rshetts2 wrote:Really Grund? A mistake on rules? The steal ability is a one shot, as clearly laid out in the rules. I find that kind of interesting.

You're Johnny on the spot, aren't you.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:25 pm

qantaga

i want to hear from him

(note i will withdraw it if he gets close to the edge...since i'd like to hear his response to Theo).

And i also come back to the point...do we have a gameplan thought out for Bubbles when we free him?

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:32 pm

Yes, we need a gameplan for Mr Bubbles.

These are the three who concern me:

proner - how many posts does he have total? It is probably less than 10. Way too silent.

Grundbegriff with his rules things, but I think that is him trying to find Gollum.

triggercut for the reasons redrun and rshetts2 mentioned.

Let's not rush the vote this time, so we have Mr Bubbles plan and a consensus scan subject.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:39 pm

Tools:

Roles

Frodo =? Mr Bubbles
Sam (Hobbit) == tru1cy xor bb2112 xor ???
Merry (Hobbit) == tru1cy xor bb2112 xor ???
Pippin (Hobbit) == Grundbegriff
Aragorn redrun xor ???
Gandalf == theohall
Boromir redrun xor ???
Eowyn (Free) redrun xor ???
Gimli (Free) redrun xor ???
Legolas (Free) redrun xor ???
Uruk Remus West xor Qantaga xor ???
Saruman Remus West xor Qantaga xor ???
Witch-King Remus West xor Qantaga xor ???
Gollum == tru1cy xor bb2112 xor ???

bb2112 (confirmed either hobbit or Gollum)
coopasonic == ???
Grundbegriff (hobbit)
Mr Bubbles (confirmed 99% Bilbo via Imprisonment)
Newcastle == ???
pr0ner == ???
Qantaga (confirmed Servant of the Eye)
redrun (confirmed Free: Aragorn xor Boromir xor Eowyn xor Gimli xor Legolas)
Remus West (confirmed Servant of the Eye)
rhsetts2 == ??
RMC == ???
theohall (uncontested Gandalf)
triggercut == ???
tru1cy (confirmed either hobbit or Gollum)

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:45 pm

triggercut wrote:rshetts, you're wrong of course.

You should be used to that by now though.

Ouch that hurts! Nice avoidance by insult there. Care for another nail for your coffin? Go ahead and prove me wrong oh evil one.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:18 pm

Get a room, you two.

Seriously, what does the rest of the Fellowship think of pr0ner?

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:49 pm

theohall wrote:Get a room, you two.

Seriously, what does the rest of the Fellowship think of pr0ner?

too quiet for my taste...

people i'd like you to scan tonight: proner, grund, or trigg...

of course final choice is yours; but jsut my suggestions.

Since we have a shot at freeing bubbles today; i'd think that he might be well served to toss the ring to either truicy or BB....this also serves to clear them as well of not being Gollum...which is a good thing...

question is though...when will gollum strike? I would almost think he would strike right away...since he has a limited pool to choose from....

of course bubbles can just keep it.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:19 pm

Why is Newcastle getting a pass?

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:38 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:Why is Newcastle getting a pass?

This is a good question, considering he just ignored what happens if Gollum gets the Ring, which I spelled out earlier. Add him to the list.

redrun · Post by **redrun** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:34 pm

theohall wrote:Yes, we need a gameplan for Mr Bubbles.

These are the three who concern me:

proner - how many posts does he have total? It is probably less than 10. Way too silent.

Grundbegriff with his rules things, but I think that is him trying to find Gollum.

triggercut for the reasons redrun and rshetts2 mentioned.

Let's not rush the vote this time, so we have Mr Bubbles plan and a consensus scan subject.

Pr0ner often posts at odd hours, and it's not unusual for him to go a day or so between sets of posts. As for 10 posts - until this morning, I don't think there were more than four players with 10 posts. I'm really curious to see if Pr0ner will come out as hobbit.

So, how does one pronounce Pr0ner - as proner or Przeroner?

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:16 am

Grundbegriff wrote:
Newcastle wrote:Another question as well: what happened last night? There was no capture/kill? Did they pass (is that even an option?)

LAGOM - CAN EVIL PASS IN THE EVENING...IE DECIDE TO NEITHER CAPTURE NOR KILL? AND IN EFFECT CHOOSE TO DO NOTHING?

I know you said may earlier; but i just want it crystal clear (pretend i am a dumb american
Do we have a clear answer to this question?

Third time's the charm

: The Servants may Hunt, but they don't have to.

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:20 am

Remus West (5) - theohall, coopasonic, rshetts2, triggercut, bb2112, Grundbegriff, tru1cy
Qantaga (3) - Grundbegriff, rshetts2, RMC, Newcastle

Majority is 7

Deadline is Friday October 21st, at 9 p.m. Central European Time (GMT +1)

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:55 am

I forgot something, redrun. Mr. Bubbles cannot post while imprisoned, so there is no way for us to know when he will be around in order to get the Ring passed. So waiting for the optimal time to cast the final vote is not going to work.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:59 am

We have until next Friday to discuss roles and work out details, so I don't see a benefit in rushing the vote this time.

Grundbegriff, your tools don't work. We know tru1cy or bb2112 are hobbits/Gollum and Mr Bubbles is Frodo. All we have on you is your claim - which can only be verified by a Ring pass, scan, or capture. My claim will be confirmed when RW or Q die.

It's these detail things, which you are clearly doing on purpose, that make me not trust you and think you are either the 3rd Evil or Gollum.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:36 am

redrun wrote:So, how does one pronounce Pr0ner - as proner or Przeroner?

I prefer to call him "patent wallah".

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:37 am

theohall wrote:Grundbegriff, your tools don't work.

Tools are just tools. There is no "work" apart from the one employing them.

If you don't like them, make your own.

redrun · Post by **redrun** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:57 am

theohall wrote:I forgot something, redrun. Mr. Bubbles cannot post while imprisoned, so there is no way for us to know when he will be around in order to get the Ring passed. So waiting for the optimal time to cast the final vote is not going to work.

redrun wrote: Can anyone see a way to ensure Mr. Bubbles is available to send in a ring-pass order ASAP after being freed? The best I can see is to ensure the final vote goes in at a time when he's posted in the past.

Best I can say from this game - he will check the thread by Monday midday, and he often posts late afternoon. So, pick a weekday, pick a time around 3:30 - 4pm for the final vote.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:39 am

Grundbegriff wrote:
theohall wrote:Grundbegriff, your tools don't work.
Tools are just tools. There is no "work" apart from the one employing them.

If you don't like them, make your own.

I already did and they don't include your obfuscations.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:54 am

theohall wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:
theohall wrote:Grundbegriff, your tools don't work.
Tools are just tools. There is no "work" apart from the one employing them.

If you don't like them, make your own.
I already did and they don't include your obfuscations.

You mean like trying to convince people that Gollum has multiple ring steal attempts and then blowing it off when called out on it. Yeah Grund bears watching and I wouldnt be a bit surprised if he turns out to be Gollum.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:21 am

Grundbegriff wrote:Why is Newcastle getting a pass?

didnt realize i was getting a pass...but feel free to scan me; will help clear the picture some for the fellowship...but you wont find gollum or the other evil dude...so not sure what to tell ya.