Elder Scrolls the MMO

Fitzy · Post by **Fitzy** » Thu May 03, 2012 7:35 pm

So. No real info yet, but it is coming. Star Wars is my first MMO, but my wife announced we're switching.

One thousand years before Oblivion. I was trying to figure out where that was, but on the time line it looks like not much was happening. Which I suppose is why the chose it.

Butterknife · Post by **Butterknife** » Thu May 03, 2012 8:00 pm

I can't get excited about it. An MMO is disappointing to me because I have always loved the single player games. Of course they haven't released enough information yet and it could turn out cool.

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Thu May 03, 2012 8:32 pm

The Endlerscrolls games have always felt empty and only a few steps away from an MMO to me anyways so this seems like a logical progression.

Fitzy · Post by **Fitzy** » Thu May 03, 2012 9:02 pm

Butterknife wrote:I can't get excited about it. An MMO is disappointing to me because I have always loved the single player games. Of course they haven't released enough information yet and it could turn out cool.

I think Bethesda's parent company created a new company to make this. While i suppose they could have stolen talent and resources from Bethesda, I think the single player version is still safe.

It's an incredibly detailed world they have to work with, it could be interesting. I'm curious if they will make it similar to the SP game, or if they are going for something new.

Freezer-TPF- · Post by **Freezer-TPF-** » Thu May 03, 2012 10:57 pm

I guess it was inevitable, but, no thanks.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu May 03, 2012 11:28 pm

I'll probably bite. I have too many fond memories of elder scrolls games over the years. Even with all its warts, it's still one of the rare series that has earned my loyalty.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri May 04, 2012 12:13 am

I'm curious, but I'm also worried. I like they way they really define the look and cultures of their nations in their single player games. I'm concerned that creating the whole world in a scale and size suitable to an MMO will impact that.

Of course, they thousand year gap could ease that a bit. We'll have to wait and see.

I suppose I'm just leery of someone taking my single favorite single player series and tinkering with the core concept.

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Fri May 04, 2012 12:54 am

It could work. What the Elder Scrolls has that would make it really compelling are the different continents that are very different from each other. In Skyrim, you have the gates that I often wish you could cross into the other continents, so there's this sense of scale it has that they could really leverage. On the other hand, I really do like playing Singleplayer. It allows you to immerse yourself in the game in a way that an MMO can't as you're always hurrying to your next destination.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Fri May 04, 2012 1:30 am

A new high fantasy MMORPG, you say? Well, it had best be doubly inventive.

Fitzy wrote:One thousand years before Oblivion. I was trying to figure out where that was, but on the time line it looks like not much was happening. Which I suppose is why the chose it.

From this point forward, I shall refer to this game as "The Elder Scrolls: The Old Republic". No doubt the time period will be ample justification for every PC being dragonborn.

That said, TES admittedly has the pre-established lore to make this period change feel natural. It's just a matter of how it's implemented.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Fri May 04, 2012 4:48 am

I has info

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Fri May 04, 2012 6:54 am

Daehawk wrote:I has info

From that link:

-The game is fully voice acted

(...)

-The game uses a hotbar to activate skills like other traditional MMOs
-Visually it looks like other Hero Engine MMOs like SWTOR
-The general art style is kind of like RIFT or Everquest 2

(...)

-"Recreating the freedom Elder Scrolls players expect within the World of Warcraft-style mechanics Zenimax Online is using for this MMO would be impossible without changing the way that players interact with the world."

So... it seems they're setting themselves up for failure. "Fully voice acted" means lots of money goes to something else than game design, and they admit to looking closely at other MMOs. I think the days when you can just copy the current market leaders and rehash what's been done and still make a profit are ending.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Fri May 04, 2012 7:40 am

There is so much failure in this project that it's embarrassing to read about. They're keeping the least interesting parts of the Elder Scrolls series (the world itself, which is very bland and generic despite the visual design of areas like Morrowind and Skyrim) and replacing all the things people love (the game mechanics, the feeling of eventually being the most important person in the world, the storyline) with things most people are extemely tired of (WoW-like mechanics, endless hotbars, most likely no real impact on the world). They are also doing this when a lot of the core fans have been screaming "no Elder Scrolls MMO, PLEASE!" for years. I can only hope that this won't affect the already very rare releases of singleplayer Elder Scrolls titles, but it probably will even if these are two different development studios. Bethesda will effectively end up competing with itself by releasing the MMO and a singleplayer game anywhere close to each other.

So yeah, Bethesda just went ahead and did one of the things I was hoping they wouldn't do. Color me not only unexcited, but outright annoyed that they are even spending money on this project. Maybe a high-profile failure will give them a splash of cold water to the face so they can get back to what they do best.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Fri May 04, 2012 7:51 am

Holy shit...

"-Third person perspective"
"-Visually it looks like other Hero Engine MMOs like SWTOR"
"-You can't be a werewolf or vampire"
"-Radiant AI will not be present"
"It needs to be comfortable for people who are coming in from a typical massively multiplayer game that has the same control mechanisms, but it also has to appeal to Skyrim players."
"-The game uses MMORPG genre standards such as classes, experience points, and other traditional MMORPG progression mechanics, but they try to present it "around the core fantasy presented by traditiona Elder Scrolls games" such as traveling around and righting wrongs or seeking riches"
"-Back on the topic of the skillbar, you have a limited number of skills you can use at any given time, and can change them whenever you're out of combat"
"-You also get a bonus loot chest if you're soloing and max your finesse, and you can also build finesse by comboing with other players"
"-The combat model will not be real time due to latency"

It's like reading a point by point list of how NOT to implement an Elder Scrolls MMO.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Fri May 04, 2012 7:58 am

I don't want to admit it because I am a fanboy, but Tilt has some good points.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri May 04, 2012 10:50 am

I would love to see what type of market research data they're using to justify this project, because it really does seem ill advised.

Hell, they could probably just convert Morrowind to the Skyrim engine and sell another 3 million copies.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Fri May 04, 2012 12:06 pm

VIDEO ...about to watch it myself.

Watched..totally no info. i like the music and for some reason the video reminds of when Ultima Online was coming out.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Fri May 04, 2012 12:26 pm

TiLT wrote:Holy shit...

"-Third person perspective"
"-Visually it looks like other Hero Engine MMOs like SWTOR"
"-You can't be a werewolf or vampire"
"-Radiant AI will not be present"
"It needs to be comfortable for people who are coming in from a typical massively multiplayer game that has the same control mechanisms, but it also has to appeal to Skyrim players."
"-The game uses MMORPG genre standards such as classes, experience points, and other traditional MMORPG progression mechanics, but they try to present it "around the core fantasy presented by traditiona Elder Scrolls games" such as traveling around and righting wrongs or seeking riches"
"-Back on the topic of the skillbar, you have a limited number of skills you can use at any given time, and can change them whenever you're out of combat"
"-You also get a bonus loot chest if you're soloing and max your finesse, and you can also build finesse by comboing with other players"
"-The combat model will not be real time due to latency"

It's like reading a point by point list of how NOT to implement an Elder Scrolls MMO.

It also takes the value of the elder scrolls games out of play (assuming a monthly fee here), in that when I buy an elder scrolls game I know I'm going to get hundreds of hours over months if not years of play for my money. That same sixty bucks will now only get me a ticket for the first month or so, and it will cost me roughly $375 more to get the same two + years as I got out of Oblivion.

Oh, and it probably means more delays in the next Elder Scrolls single player game.

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Fri May 04, 2012 1:31 pm

Yeah, that does not sound very promising. If that is indeed what they're going to do, I'd be pulling the project. Not real-time combat? Almost every MMO has real-time combat.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Fri May 04, 2012 1:48 pm

I don't think they mean it will be turn-based, just not actiony. I bet it will be as real-time as Rift, or WoW, or LotRO.

Ale

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Fri May 04, 2012 2:07 pm

Or do they mean the action will be paused while people bring up the inventory menus like in Skyrim?

Found some leaked screens and concept art:

http://techland.time.com/2012/05/04/thi ... d-screens/" target="_blank

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri May 04, 2012 2:13 pm

I haven't spent more than an hour inside any elder scrolls game but this is sounding pretty good!

Ok, not really, except for the lack of play part.

Yawn.

Zurai · Post by **Zurai** » Fri May 04, 2012 3:45 pm

Sounds like an April Fools joke except way too late. Whoever thought this up should be sacked.

Hamlet3145 · Post by **Hamlet3145** » Fri May 04, 2012 4:01 pm

Those screenshots . . .

Freezer-TPF- · Post by **Freezer-TPF-** » Fri May 04, 2012 4:18 pm

Hamlet3145 wrote:Those screenshots . . .

I think they look pretty good for a console/iOS title. /shrug

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Fri May 04, 2012 4:56 pm

Freezer-TPF- wrote:
Hamlet3145 wrote:Those screenshots . . .
I think they look pretty good for a console/iOS title. /shrug

Except that they've announced it for PC/Mac. The Art, especially the characters, look more like something to come out of a Korean MMO.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Fri May 04, 2012 6:43 pm

Rumpy wrote:
Freezer-TPF- wrote:
Hamlet3145 wrote:Those screenshots . . .
I think they look pretty good for a console/iOS title. /shrug
Except that they've announced it for PC/Mac. The Art, especially the characters, look more like something to come out of a Korean MMO.

The irony is that the presence of orcs will make the setting unappealing to the Asian market by default.

Zurai · Post by **Zurai** » Fri May 04, 2012 7:20 pm

Lineage 2 has orcs, so nah.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Sat May 05, 2012 3:41 am

What's wrong with the screenshots?

Ale

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Sat May 05, 2012 8:51 am

I didn't find the screens bad for an MMO. If there's one thing they've captured it's TES' interesting architecture.

I don't think the question is as much "why?" as it should be "why now?" But, what are you going to do? You've been in development for four+ years, with I don't want to know how much money invested. The worst thing they could do at this point would be to tinker with their core features and mechanics.

TES diehards would still have hated this four years ago. But to others, most of the features wouldn't have sounded so bad at the time. They're just so far behind the curve, and we're all soured by the disappointment of TOR; a game which has proven that a competent WoW knockoff just won't cut it anymore, even with a fresh setting and beloved franchise behind it. Do your version of WoW in a fantasy setting at this point, and you're just screwed.

As other posters mentioned, portions of TES have always been painfully generic. And if you want to play a Wow-style game, just play WoW. No one can match their polish and depth. One might go sight seeing in another game, but if they're tired of WoW, they're unlikely to stick around.

Still, I think a lot of people's tones are going to improve once we start getting a real glimpse of the design and gameplay. But not enough to save this from a mediocre fate.

Hamlet3145 · Post by **Hamlet3145** » Sat May 05, 2012 2:09 pm

Alefroth wrote:What's wrong with the screenshots?

Basically, to me, they look much more like Rift or Aion than Skyrim or Oblivion.

Suitably Ironic Moniker · Sat May 05, 2012 2:26 pm

Yeah, the shots by themselves don't look ugly so much as they don't look like an Elder Scrolls game.

Citizen · Post by **Citizen** » Sat May 05, 2012 4:55 pm

I thought the screen shots looked good, actually. BUT...

WTF is combat that isn't real time and instanced dungeons? Instances suck. Age of Conan proved it. I can think of no better way to break immersion and destroy any sense of an online community/living world than to have 7 instances of the same freaking dungeon.

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Sat May 05, 2012 4:57 pm

Hamlet3145 wrote:
Alefroth wrote:What's wrong with the screenshots?
Basically, to me, they look much more like Rift or Aion than Skyrim or Oblivion.

Yep, exactly. I was kind of thinking of Aion when I saw them. Which doesn't mean it's bad in itself, but that it just isn't the kind of look I'm expecting out of Elder Scrolls. It looks more cartoony than Skyrim and even Oblivion, which seems to be in the opposite direction with what the Elder Scrolls is doing with each subsequent release, which usually aim for realism. And the palette just seems off.

neofit · Post by **neofit** » Mon May 07, 2012 12:04 pm

From RPS:

To become Emperor you’ll have to conquer Cyrodiil, taking forts, mines and farms in many-on-many PvP scraps, eventually attacking the Imperial City and engaging in a 100 vs 100 battle, the winner of which becomes Emperor. Not all 100 of the winner, obviously, but instead the member of the victorious faction who contributed most in the conquering process. Not sure how that works but it could lead to some delightful arguments.

I don't know, when I think of a TES (or Fallout 3+) game, I see images of a huge world with free-roaming mostly, not DAOC-like 3-faction RvR.

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Mon May 07, 2012 12:21 pm

If they made this a sandbox, with the same philosophy like say, EvE, it might work. But a WoW-esque themepark, using Hero engine? No.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon May 07, 2012 3:44 pm

eventually attacking the Imperial City and engaging in a 100 vs 100 battle

LFM Attack on IC. 74 slots open. PST, want to start by Tuesday.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Mon May 07, 2012 4:41 pm

neofit wrote:I don't know, when I think of a TES (or Fallout 3+) game, I see images of a huge world with free-roaming mostly, not DAOC-like 3-faction RvR.

I've noticed that whenever a new game is touted as being "from the creators of DAoC", it always means "this game is going to blatantly copy DAoC whether it makes sense or not". I suspect they are too much in love with their old game to realize the problems with its design, particularly when attempting to hammer it into other games.

So, at this point we've got a mix between DAoC and WoW. There's still no trace of The Elder Scrolls in there, except for the name and the setting (which doesn't look right anyway thanks to the art design in the "leaked" screenshots).

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:21 pm

E3 trailer...which doesn't show all that much.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:55 am

And here's the demo video from E3.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:34 pm

They're trying really hard to build the most generic fantasy MMO of all time and hoping it'll sell based on the Elder Scrolls name. Ugh.

For me the entire point of Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, and Oblivion were that they were massive worlds dedicated to providing an adventure for one person. This wrongness makes me kind of sad, like a little piece of my gaming heritage is being abused in an alleyway by men in sharp looking suits.