Hooray for good parenting!

[ChrisGwinn]

Oddly, this actually is related to gaming in general.

I'm at my local crappy chain game store in a strip mall, picking up my copy of Jade Empire. In front of me is a mother with her young son. He's probably ten, and they're buying some racing game. When they get up to the counter he goes "that's what I want!" and points. "Gran Theft San Andres!".

This is where I cringe as the parents show no idea what's going on and the sales clerks do nothing. I see the sales clerk, who looks to be in his mid-twenties, start to gird himself for the inevitable "No, you shouldn't buy your kid what he's asking for" confrontation.

The mom just turns to the kid and says "Heck no! You're not getting that."

There is cheering and general happiness in the store. The kid doesn't throw a tantrum. All is well in the world.

[Austin]

Ahhh rekindled hope.

[Cylus Maxii]

Hooray indeed!

[AttAdude]

Once when in hastings i saw this exact same thing happen. The difference is the mother put back the original game and let the kid rent GTA:S. Being the person who i am i stuck my nose in and said to her "hey ive played that game, and i can tell you its not the kind of thing most people would want thier 10 year old playing. Its pretty raunchy in terms of launguage sexuality and violence. Its definatly a title for adults." The lady then told me how rude it was of me to assume that she did not know about the game. She said she was renting it for a sleep over with chilren ages 10 - 13 and she thought it would be ok for them. I just shook my head and imagined a group of 10-13 year olds kicking the shit out of each other with mommies dildo.

[The Meal]

I just shook my head and imagined a group of 10-13 year olds kicking the shit out of each other with mommies dildo.

That was LOL funny. Nice.

~Neal

[raydude]

She said she was renting it for a sleep over with chilren ages 10 - 13 and she thought it would be ok for them. I just shook my head and imagined a group of 10-13 year olds kicking the shit out of each other with mommies dildo.

Next time respond in a loud voice "Wow, so you're okay with 10-13 year olds beating up hookers and shooting cops in a video game?"

[YellowKing]

Ever since I started watching Nanny 911 and Supernanny, I've realized that parents tend to get ferociously defensive at even the mildest critique of their parenting skills. The worse the parents, the more defensive they are.

[AttAdude]

Ever since I started watching Nanny 911 and Supernanny, I've realized that parents tend to get ferociously defensive at even the mildest critique of their parenting skills. The worse the parents, the more defensive they are.

I love supernanny.... does it make me strange that i find her to be sorta sexy?

[Guy Incognito]

Ever since I started watching Nanny 911 and Supernanny, I've realized that parents tend to get ferociously defensive at even the mildest critique of their parenting skills. The worse the parents, the more defensive they are.

I love supernanny.... does it make me strange that i find her to be sorta sexy?

Yes

[ChrisGwinn]

Ever since I started watching Nanny 911 and Supernanny, I've realized that parents tend to get ferociously defensive at even the mildest critique of their parenting skills. The worse the parents, the more defensive they are.

I love supernanny.... does it make me strange that i find her to be sorta sexy?

Is it because you need some strict discipline?

[AttAdude]

Ever since I started watching Nanny 911 and Supernanny, I've realized that parents tend to get ferociously defensive at even the mildest critique of their parenting skills. The worse the parents, the more defensive they are.

I love supernanny.... does it make me strange that i find her to be sorta sexy?

Is it because you need some strict discipline?

Lol could be. Mostly its because i have a thing for the hot librarian look and she mostly fits the bill. On top of that i think an english accent is dead sexy.

[Bad Demographic]

Ever since I started watching Nanny 911 and Supernanny, I've realized that parents tend to get ferociously defensive at even the mildest critique of their parenting skills. The worse the parents, the more defensive they are.

Probably because they have good reason to be defensive.

[CSL]

Working at Wal-Mart as I do, i've been fairly able to gauge how parents deal with kids wanting GTA:SA.

Its like this

85% buy it right away for the little brats, even after I tell them about the killing hookers thing
10% say no right away, probably because of price
5% know what the fuck it is and know the rating system, so they don't buy it

[Ridah]

Bah, don't worry so much about these kids it's never video games that influence them except for the redneck retards in this country who were bound to commit murder at some point anyhow and the kids in China who have no life outside their games.

I was letting my little sister play GTA3 when it came out and she was 10-11, she's never had a problem with violence or swearing around the house and the school has never complained, so scrap that thought. Before there was any sort of law about selling mature games to kids, I was buying games like Twisted Metal, Phantasmagoria 2 (which even had nudity on top of the twisted violence), Mortal Kombat, and the like, and believe it or not I have a squeeky clean record.

When did you guys forget what it was like to be a kid? At least remember how resourceful they can be, they have most likely seen everything GTA:SA offers related to the Mature rating in movies or even comic books. I probably couldn't even count the number of people I saw Wolverine decapitate and *snikt* into to a pool of bloody body parts before I was even 10. And one of your kid's friends are bound to have internet with no parental controls...

So I definately don't see it as good parenting, rather over-protective parenting which I think can cause the child to want to rebel and get into worse things.

[Austin]

Bah, don't worry so much about these kids it's never video games that influence them except for the redneck retards in this country who were bound to commit murder at some point anyhow and the kids in China who have no life outside their games.

I was letting my little sister play GTA3 when it came out and she was 10-11, she's never had a problem with violence or swearing around the house and the school has never complained, so scrap that thought. Before there was any sort of law about selling mature games to kids, I was buying games like Twisted Metal, Phantasmagoria 2 (which even had nudity on top of the twisted violence), Mortal Kombat, and the like, and believe it or not I have a squeeky clean record.

When did you guys forget what it was like to be a kid? At least remember how resourceful they can be, they have most likely seen everything GTA:SA offers related to the Mature rating in movies or even comic books. I probably couldn't even count the number of people I saw Wolverine decapitate and *snikt* into to a pool of bloody body parts before I was even 10. And one of your kid's friends are bound to have internet with no parental controls...

So I definately don't see it as good parenting, rather over-protective parenting which I think can cause the child to want to rebel and get into worse things.

Only looking for your perspective, not meaning this derogatory but, how old are you?

[ChrisGwinn]

Oh, I remember what it was like to be a kid. If that had been a 13 year old, or the parent/sibling seemed to be engaged in the game playing, I wouldn't have batted an eye either way. This kid may have been less than ten, and it was pretty clear that he wasn't going to be playing the game with his parent/sibling.

[AttAdude]

Ridah and the rest of you might be interested in the BoBo Doll Studies.

[Blackhawk]

It is a bit blind to claim that aggressive models don't encourage aggressive behavior. They most certainly do.

In general, that isn't necessarily a problem - everybody has aggressive urges, and a properly raised, mentally healthy child won't be overwhelmed by them. Parents who deny their children toy guns and swords, or any game with any sort of blood are overcompensating. On the other hand, some more extreme examples aren't appropriate - not just for the violence, but for how it is presented.

[AttAdude]

It is a bit blind to claim that aggressive models don't encourage aggressive behavior. They most certainly do.

In general, that isn't necessarily a problem - everybody has aggressive urges, and a properly raised, mentally healthy child won't be overwhelmed by them. Parents who deny their children toy guns and swords, or any game with any sort of blood are overcompensating. On the other hand, some more extreme examples aren't appropriate - not just for the violence, but for how it is presented.

Again check out the BoBo Doll studies of you dont already know what they are. Its always nice to have some scientific weight to go with your point.

[Ridah]

Only looking for your perspective, not meaning this derogatory but, how old are you?

I'm old enough to understand the values children learn as they are growing up and their influences, although I don't have children of my own. I want to use my best friend as an example as to why shunning the kid from violence, sex, and foul language doesn't always result in a happy-go lucky kid. He's an only child and his mother is extremely over-protective, she wouldn't let him watch movies like Terminator when he was young, although my mom actually had me watching it when I was probably 5 years old. I don't remember it, she just has a funny story of how it scared me. In high school his would get mad at me for saying words like "crap" and "darn" because she didn't want him learning that sort of language. Anyhow, you get my point. Today, the guy has the worst potty mouth out of anyone I know and he has rage issues which everyone knows about.

So what was the difference between the way I was raised and him? My parents were letting me watch R rated movies (or maybe not let me but I had access to them), I remember watching a dirty porno at a friend's house when I was extremely young, and basically was exposed to a lot when I was young. The difference is that they raised me to understand the value of respect and common decency. Sure I can have a dirty mouth, but I rarely swear around the house and never in the presence of my parents, which is definately not my friend's case.

So the way I see it, solely based off personal experience, its more important that the kid is raised in an environment where he/she understands moral values, respect, and so on so that when the time comes and perhaps they do play GTA: SA, they understand the difference between right and wrong.

[Butterknife]

Ridah -- no offense, but your opinion will be taken less seriously than someone who is a parent. I have several younger brothers and sisters that I treat quite differently than my own children, even though my youngest brother is only a few years older than my oldest children.

That being said, I'm 30 and have 3 children. My oldest are twin boys, age 5. The game that I actually have the most trouble with is going to surprise some of you -- Mario Kart for the Gamecube. Specifically, "Battle Mode" or whatever it is called these days. If my boys start playing that, they start to fight. And they get very worked up, it's the competitive nature of it. They get that from my wife.

Anyway, I limit their Mario Kart time. I'll let them play "Squirt" (they're nickname for Mario Sunshine) for hours, but the minute they start to play Mario Kart they are on a half-hour timer, which goes off once they start screaming at each other or hitting. These are not things I want to encourage in my kids.

I do "expose" my children to limited amounts of violence, but no sex. Swearing we do our best, but mommy and daddy aren't perfect and their uncles have pretty bad language. Oh well. I have let them watch limited selections of the following movies: Pirates of the Caribbean, X-Men 2, Spiderman 2. All fairly "adult" movies in nature (I believe they are all rated PG-13).

***mild movie spoilers follow, about the movies mentioned above***

They love pirates, but didn't get to see the undead-pirate parts as I thought that would be far too scary for them. I did let them watch some of the swordfighting. I let them watch Nightcrawler attack the White House, but cut the scene right at the end before he attempts to stab the President (and you should've heard the complaining about that). I also let them watch Spiderman "get the bad guys" in the movie. This isn't any different from the video game, in my mind -- since I let them beat up the bad guys on the game, I figured the movie would also be fun for them to watch. They only watched the car chase scene where Spiderman flips over the car, after dodging bullets and so on.

***end of spoilers***

I would never let my children play M-rated games, of any kind. In fact, I have barely touched Vampire: Bloodlines because there is quite a bit of cussing and blood, and I don't want my kids to walk in while I'm playing. That means it gets relegated to the "after the kids are in bed" domain, and then it never gets played because by that time I am usually engrossed in something else. Their gaming is pretty much Nintendo-only for now, and I prefer it that way primarily because of how much easier it is to monitor what they are playing. I will introduce them to the wonders of PC gaming at a later date, when we get another computer.

[noun]

Wait a minute - Ridah, weren't you the guy trying to make the argument for why Britney Spears would be a good parent?

Yeah, I think we can pretty much discount anything you have to offer on the subject of parenting.

[AttAdude]

Wait a minute - Ridah, weren't you the guy trying to make the argument for why Britney Spears would be a good parent?

Yeah, I think we can pretty much discount anything you have to offer on the subject of parenting.

comments like this lessen the worth of any discussion. I really wish Noun and some other people on this board would keep thier snarky half serious one liners to thier selves.

[noun]

Wait a minute - Ridah, weren't you the guy trying to make the argument for why Britney Spears would be a good parent?

Yeah, I think we can pretty much discount anything you have to offer on the subject of parenting.

comments like this lessen the worth of any discussion. I really wish Noun and some other people on this board would keep thier snarky half serious one liners to thier selves.

No. You can't go blaming me for pointing out the emperor has no clothes.

[Napoleon]

Wait a minute - Ridah, weren't you the guy trying to make the argument for why Britney Spears would be a good parent?

Yeah, I think we can pretty much discount anything you have to offer on the subject of parenting.

comments like this lessen the worth of any discussion. I really wish Noun and some other people on this board would keep thier snarky half serious one liners to thier selves.

No. You can't go blaming me for pointing out the emperor has no clothes.

He doesn't? Damn...you'd think an emperor would have enough money to buy new clothes. Or wait...is he a NUDIST? Man...that's to be because of bad parenting. Damn the previous emperor for raising his son to be a hippie nudist treehugging liberal whackjob!

[qp]

I traded in my GTA:SA - too much swearing. Now I'm not a stickler on swearing in movies and such, but DAMN that game had a lot of swearing. Just don't need to find out my munckin has learned some interesting words because of overhearing Daddy's game in the next room! Besides I needed the trade in credt

[The Mad Hatter]

So the way I see it, solely based off personal experience, its more important that the kid is raised in an environment where he/she understands moral values, respect, and so on so that when the time comes and perhaps they do play GTA: SA, they understand the difference between right and wrong.

You're partly right, based on the studies I've seen. There's some evidence of a correlation between aggression levels and violent video games due to things like modeling ala Attadude's link, but as with all childhood and adolescent behaviour good parenting will mitigate it.

[Ridah]

Wait a minute - Ridah, weren't you the guy trying to make the argument for why Britney Spears would be a good parent?

Yeah, I think we can pretty much discount anything you have to offer on the subject of parenting.

I don't recall saying she would be a good parent, it's just fucked up to go after a woman before she's even made any mistakes when she announces that she's going to be a mother. Perfect role model? No, but who is? I feel the most negative nurting a child receives growing up comes from issues related to poverty or low-class struggles, and considering Britney Spears is rich, that already gives her kid a foot up. See what I'm saying? Making tasteless and snide remarks about others you don't even know only says something about yourself.

Regarding the issue with mature content and children, its true I don't have any children of my own but I am the oldest of four and at a time my dad was gone for a year (not imprisoned or anything like that) and I had the responsibility of watching over my siblings. That being said, the four of us were watching mature rated movies (minus sexual content, my mom would get me for that and besides we werent interested at the young age) and playing mature rated video games at a young age, and honestly none of us have any issues with violence or swearing. And again, that came from strict parents which was passed on to me, and I enforce the same rules when my parents aren't home.

[Butterknife]

I feel the most negative nurting a child receives growing up comes from issues related to poverty or low-class struggles

I disagree strongly with this. I grew up poor (poverty-stricken, I should say -- food stamps, going to bed without dinner, no new clothes, etc.) and I knew other kids who had far worse problems than whether or not they were poor. I consider myself lucky -- if I could pick, I'd rather go to bed without dinner and wear hand-me-downs.

More on topic, I would guess that you are in your late teens Ridah? And that you live at home with your folks? I was the oldest of eight children and my dad was also away from home for a long time (not prison ), during which I felt responsible for my siblings (and I still do). Just mentioning it so that I can say "I see where you are coming from" and hopefully you'll believe me.

Anyway, we did not grow up playing mature video games or watching mature movies, unlike you. Even so, I'd be willing to bet that your youngest sibling is probably 12 or older? I would think a 12-year-old could handle Diablo 2, for example, but wouldn't let them play GTA any more than most parents. Both games are rated M.

Most posters on this board I would hazard to guess have young children and pre-teens. I doubt many of us have teenage children (although a few of you old farts do). Teenage does not equal child. So when we are saying "kids" we are talking about younger people than you are, I'm guessing you are thinking "kids" more along the lines of mid-teens and older.

Anyway, to make a short point long I wouldn't let my little kids watch or play anything bad, and I would probably let my teenagers (over 16) pretty much play or watch anything that I would play or watch.

[Zarathud]

I think it comes down to adult supervision. My mother loves being scared -- horror movies, roller coasters, you name it. We saw all sorts of frightening movies with mom -- but she was also watching and knew whether we would need some counseling afterwards. She laughed hysterically at us jumping out of our skins during the movie Alien at the outdoor movie, scattering the popcorn and hiding underneath the back car seats. But then she'd talk to us about the movie until we were ok. That approach worked well with everything but Jaws. I am still somewhat afraid of deep water....

Mom would try to do the same things with video games. The computer was in the family room so she could walk by and check out what we were doing. We thought it was funny that she had no idea about the goal of any game, but looking back on it she always seemed to find chores if we were getting out of control on a gruesome game.

When that didn't work, she used humor to keep us in line. My brother and I got a hold of a "strip poker" game where winning would expose digitized nipples and bush. My brother was MUCH better at the game, and would leave the naked lady onscreen for days when he finally won -- and when he could turn the screen off before mom walked by. She didn't do anything right away except tease him mercilessly about it (along the lines of "You just lost, it's time for YOU to take off your shirt"), but she'd turn off the power after he'd eventually walk away for something. I remember her not-so-innocent voice saying "but you were done playing, weren't you?"

Unfortunately for my youngest sister (18 years younger than me), that same brother (who still lives with mom) is now the internet cop. Whenever she visits pr0n or some website she's not supposed to be visiting for a couple of times, he messes with her PC's internet connectivity for a few days and then gives her a hard time about it (little does she know that my brother's is behind the "spyware" that keeps corrupting her computer). She has seen a few things beyond her age group, knows more than a few naughty words, but isn't obsessed with sex, violence or language. Like any teenager, she's not an angel -- but she knows that someone is watching out for her even if they're not preaching how she should live her life. She's seen enough to remove the mystery, but not so much that it becomes bound up with her teenage rebellion.

[noun]

I don't recall saying she would be a good parent, it's just fucked up to go after a woman before she's even made any mistakes when she announces that she's going to be a mother.

See, here's the thing. I don't think Britney Spears is old enough or even close to being mature enough to care for a child. But I think most 22 year olds fall in that category, as most of them focus on partying and having fun. Britney is no different in that regard. What separates her from the average 22 year old is her fame, fortune, and constant hounding by the paparazzi. Go back to rrmorton's posted pictures of her joyfully performing oral sex for the camera. This is something a 22 year old would do, NOT something a mature parent would do. This is not a stable environment for raising a child. Britney is still being one herself.

And it sounds like you had an interesting situation growing up, but being a babysitter for siblings is not the same as being a parent. I'm sorry, I'm not insulting you this time, but it's true. Caring for someone from birth is an entirely different experience than watching a sibling while mom's at work. With your own child you have to be an authority figure and a guiding force 24/7 from day one. Watching over your siblings is akin to being a team lead; you're all in the same boat, you just happen to be calling the shots.

And there's more to knowing the difference between right and wrong when playing a mature video game. Most kids pick up on this early on. The problem is distinguishing fantasy from reality. Most kids don't *really* begin to do this until their late teens, and even then, they're very influenced by the media they watch, listen to, or play. As an adult, I know there's no way in hell I can jack multiple cars, kill a dozen people, get arrested by the police and only suffer the loss of $100 and all my weapons as a result. Most teenagers *probably* know this as well, but might imitate things they've seen in movies or video games if their judgement is especially poor. But small children don't really understand those concepts in the first place, and with their already tenous grasp on reality, letting them play a mature game before they're mature enough to handle is a recipe for trouble down the road.

Anyway. Those are my thoughts.