Puerto Rico, Game 01: Transit of Venus: GAME OVER

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:26 am

Captain.

Ship Sugar.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:52 am

With that, here's how the ships look:

(6) type not determined, 6 empty
(7) 4 sugars, 3 empty
(8) 5 indigo, 3 empty

If you have questions or comments while I'm away from OO, feel free to reach me at grundbegriff at gmail.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:36 am

Qantaga wrote:
El Guapo wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote: Since there's no more room, the Trader turn ends with Newcastle emptying the Trade House.
Oh, I didn't know this. I had assumed that it would empty and the trader round would continue - might have chosen a different action. But I guess I should have inferred this from how captain works.

I was wondering why you were so willing to follow Newcastle's request and gift him with 3 dubloons.

It would've made total sense had I known the correct rules - then I could've sold tobacco immediately for 4 doubloons. I guess I'll chalk that up to this being my first time playing, I guess.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:13 am

build large Indigo factory for +1 doubloon. 5 doubloons +1 -3 for large indigo factory +1 for discount = 4 doubloons remaining.

build to qantaga

And to kibitz q, rather than prospect for 2 next time you'll want to look at the benefit of trading for 2 instead. The result would still net you the two coins on the trader while preventing anyone else from trading... Unless your goal would be free up the trading house. If it was then never mind.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:17 am

Did we finish the Captain's phase?

I'm not even sure what the "type not determined" ship contains.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:20 am

Oh, LM, I wanted to trade (even PMed Grund about goods), but at the start of my turn I had no goods to trade (I went before craftsman was played).

Or, are you saying I could have played the Trader card even without selling any goods?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:22 am

LordMortis wrote:build large Indigo factory for +1 doubloon. 5 doubloons +1 -3 for large indigo factory +1 for discount = 4 doubloons remaining.

build to qantaga

And to kibitz q, rather than prospect for 2 next time you'll want to look at the benefit of trading for 2 instead. The result would still net you the two coins on the trader while preventing anyone else from trading... Unless your goal would be free up the trading house. If it was then never mind.

It's your turn to ship goods in the captain phase.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:25 am

Qantaga wrote:Or, are you saying I could have played the Trader card even without selling any goods?

This.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:26 am

LordMortis wrote:build large Indigo factory for +1 doubloon. 5 doubloons +1 -3 for large indigo factory +1 for discount = 4 doubloons remaining.

build to qantaga

And to kibitz q, rather than prospect for 2 next time you'll want to look at the benefit of trading for 2 instead. The result would still net you the two coins on the trader while preventing anyone else from trading... Unless your goal would be free up the trading house. If it was then never mind.

hmmm Lm seems to be very anachronistic this day. Its your turn to captain...but thanks for letting us know what you want to do your turn.

As for ELG & The trader house. I thought it was fair. For him it made it availble for next turn. Which i thought it was a good thing. It wont be clogged up and he can trade tobacco. For me because it cleared up the trade house and got me 3 doubloons.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:28 am

Remus West wrote:
Qantaga wrote:Or, are you saying I could have played the Trader card even without selling any goods?
This.

That never crossed my mind. I certainly would have made that play, had I realized it was possible.

I'll sure remember that next time.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:28 am

El Guapo wrote:
Qantaga wrote:
El Guapo wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote: Since there's no more room, the Trader turn ends with Newcastle emptying the Trade House.
Oh, I didn't know this. I had assumed that it would empty and the trader round would continue - might have chosen a different action. But I guess I should have inferred this from how captain works.

I was wondering why you were so willing to follow Newcastle's request and gift him with 3 dubloons.
It would've made total sense had I known the correct rules - then I could've sold tobacco immediately for 4 doubloons. I guess I'll chalk that up to this being my first time playing, I guess.

Tobacco was already in the trader house. You could not put another in there until it was cleared unless you have a manned office. Q is the only one with an office and it is not manned. With no coffee in play yet, corn was the only thing that could go in.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:32 am

Newcastle wrote:hmmm Lm seems to be very anachronistic this day. Its your turn to captain...but thanks for letting us know what you want to do your turn.

My bad. I'm hung over and I didn't realize there was a free ship for tobacco to go on. Of course, the rest of the captain phase is forced, so I'll still end up at the same point and I'm also not sure how much I'll be around today, so when the round goes around, consider that my preorder.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:32 am

LordMortis wrote:
El Guapo wrote:
Qantaga wrote:
El Guapo wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote: Since there's no more room, the Trader turn ends with Newcastle emptying the Trade House.
Oh, I didn't know this. I had assumed that it would empty and the trader round would continue - might have chosen a different action. But I guess I should have inferred this from how captain works.

I was wondering why you were so willing to follow Newcastle's request and gift him with 3 dubloons.
It would've made total sense had I known the correct rules - then I could've sold tobacco immediately for 4 doubloons. I guess I'll chalk that up to this being my first time playing, I guess.
Tobacco was already in the trader house. You could not put another in there until it was cleared unless you have a manned office. Q is the only one with an office and it is not manned. With no coffee in play yet, corn was the only thing that could go in.

Oh I know that. What I thought when I made my choice was that when Newcastle put corn in, that the trading house would clear (since all four goods would be in), and then the trading turn would continue, which would allow people (including myself) to sell into the now empty trading house. Had I known the correct rule, I would probably have chosen a different action.

But that said, I should have at least suspected that was not the case, since we just saw that the captain action does not work that way with empty / new ships. Oh well.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:35 am

LordMortis wrote:
Newcastle wrote:hmmm Lm seems to be very anachronistic this day. Its your turn to captain...but thanks for letting us know what you want to do your turn.
My bad. I'm hung over and I didn't realize there was a free ship for tobacco to go on. Of course, the rest of the captain phase is forced, so I'll still end up at the same point and I'm also not sure how much I'll be around today, so when the round goes around, consider that my preorder.

Huh? You have a choice now in the captain phase. I believe you have 1 indigo and 1 corn, and can choose to ship one or the other.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:36 am

El Guapo wrote:It's your turn to ship goods in the captain phase.

I have good? That's the crux of my problem, then. Going back and rereading. I missed the note where we craftsmanned.

Edit... I see craftsman. Now I need to go figure out what everyone has.

El Guapo: indigo, indigo, tobacco
Newcastle: corn, tobacco
Chaosraven: corn, indigo, sugar
LordMortis: corn, indigo
Qantaga: corn, sugar

Newcastle + 1 Tobacco storage
El Guap + 1 tobacco storage

Newcastle - 1 Corn trade

raven ships sugar - 1 sugar

Ships at:

(6) type not determined, 6 empty
(7) 4 sugars, 3 empty
(8) 5 indigo, 3 empty

I will ship corn on the empty boat

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:15 am

Ship 1 corn.

I'll be in a meeting for a couple hours, so Ship 1 sugar, when it comes back to me.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:19 am

I will ship 1 indigo on the respective boat.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:25 am

If I read you correctly you have 2 indigo. When you ship, you ship all of your goods of a type until the boat is full, so you ship 2 indigo.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:33 am

LordMortis wrote:If I read you correctly you have 2 indigo. When you ship, you ship all of your goods of a type until the boat is full, so you ship 2 indigo.

Oh, I thought you did one at a time going around. Like, I ship 1 indigo, then Newcastle ships 1 of something (if possible), then you ship 1, then Qantaga, then I'd ship my other indigo (if still possible). But I gather instead I ship 2 indigo at once, then it goes to Newcastle for any shipping?

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:48 am

El Guapo wrote:
LordMortis wrote:If I read you correctly you have 2 indigo. When you ship, you ship all of your goods of a type until the boat is full, so you ship 2 indigo.
Oh, I thought you did one at a time going around. Like, I ship 1 indigo, then Newcastle ships 1 of something (if possible), then you ship 1, then Qantaga, then I'd ship my other indigo (if still possible). But I gather instead I ship 2 indigo at once, then it goes to Newcastle for any shipping?

it is a 1 by 1 turn from what i know of...what you have in bold...i think the italic part of LM's statement is once committed to shipping somethign you have to ship all of it?

GRUND or any other knowledgeable players...care to clear up?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:55 am

That said, whenever it becomes possible to ship my other indigo (whether immediately or when my turn comes around again), I will do so.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:12 pm

I am on my phone, so I can't easily quote it, but Grund's post about the Captain card on page 4 makes it pretty clear that El Guapo would ship both Indigos, not just one.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:13 pm

PASS - cant do squat

CR's turn

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:51 pm

A reminder of what's optional:

Grundbegriff wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:Is settling optional?
Yes.

Taking a plantation during Settler is optional.
Buying a building during Builder is optional.
During Mayor, each player who can do so must take the available colonist, but placing it somewhere to activate a building or plantation is optional, and rearranging one's colonists is optional.
During Craftsman, production of goods is optional, but if you choose to proceed you must produce as much as you can.
During Trader, selling is optional.
During Captain, shipping is mandatory.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:54 pm

LordMortis wrote:I have good? That's the crux of my problem, then. Going back and rereading. I missed the note where we craftsmanned.

(a) As noted at that time, I went ahead and assumed that everyone would produce at full throttle. If you do not wish to have some of the goods I assumed you were intending to produce, just let me know and I'll role that production back for you.

(b) On the Captain's turn, the action goes around and around the table until everyone has shipped as much as he can. The reason each action addresses only one kind of product is that there's tactical value in shipping crates that fill up boats the other players might be hoping to use.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:08 pm

El Guapo wrote:Had I known the correct rule, I would probably have chosen a different action.

But that said, I should have at least suspected that was not the case, since we just saw that the captain action does not work that way with empty / new ships. Oh well.

There's a strong sense of "do things in the same way" in the aesthetic of PR. For example, everything always starts with a leader and goes clockwise. Everything (except taking colonists in and shipping goods out) is optional. Every good is worth 1 VP. Every building's VP value matches its column number on the bank board and its eligibility for quarry-based discounts. And so forth.

Insofar as things can rhyme, they do rhyme.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:16 pm

El Guapo wrote:
LordMortis wrote:If I read you correctly you have 2 indigo. When you ship, you ship all of your goods of a type until the boat is full, so you ship 2 indigo.
Oh, I thought you did one at a time going around.

One kind at a time. And as much of that kind as there's room for. You may select which of your kinds to ship on a given turn, but then it's max-if-possible.

To refresh everyone's recollection, here's the post in which I mentioned the shipping rules.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:23 pm

Newcastle wrote:
El Guapo wrote:
LordMortis wrote:If I read you correctly you have 2 indigo. When you ship, you ship all of your goods of a type until the boat is full, so you ship 2 indigo.
Oh, I thought you did one at a time going around. Like, I ship 1 indigo, then Newcastle ships 1 of something (if possible), then you ship 1, then Qantaga, then I'd ship my other indigo (if still possible). But I gather instead I ship 2 indigo at once, then it goes to Newcastle for any shipping?

it is a 1 by 1 turn from what i know of...what you have in bold...i think the italic part of LM's statement is once committed to shipping somethign you have to ship all of it?

GRUND or any other knowledgeable players...care to clear up?

Simply:
(a) If you have crates, you must ship.
(b) If you have crates of different types, you select the type to ship. It must be a type for which there's at least one open space.
(c) Having selected the type, you ship as much of that type as possible right now.
(d) When the turn comes back around to you, you ship as much as possible of another freely selected, shippable type.
(e) When nobody can ship anything else, everyone calculates spoilage.
(f) If any ship is full, the Captain recycles its contents into the supply.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:27 pm

Chaosraven's action to ship.

He has 1 indigo and 1 corn.

Here's a snapshot of the three ships:

(6): corn, corn, _____, _____, _____, _____
(7): sugar, sugar, sugar, sugar, _____, _____, _____
(8): indigo, indigo, indigo, indigo, indigo, indigo, indigo, _____

Other crateholders include:

El Guapo: tobacco, tobacco
Newcastle: tobacco, tobacco
LordMortis: indigo
Qantaga: sugar

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:42 pm

I also have tobacco, tobacco, though neither can be shipped this round (and one will thus be spoiled).

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:43 pm

Oh, and thanks for the rules clarifications.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:44 pm

El Guapo wrote:I also have tobacco, tobacco, though neither can be shipped this round (and one will thus be spoiled).

Yup. Fixing.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:46 pm

From a moderator's perspective, this juncture poses an interesting problem.

It's fairly obvious what Chaosraven's self-interested move would be.

Should I leave it for him to take, or pay him the compliment of assuming he'll take it and then roll the game forward?

I mean, he could prefer LordMortis over himself. But would he?

What do you think? I'm inclined to pause and leave playing to the players, except when there are no pivotal choices to be made.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:59 pm

I think it best to wait. With stuff like "produce or not" I think it's fine to go ahead, as there's rarely downside to producing. But generally I think it's better to wait - even if there's an action that seems clearly right, it's best to give people the option to screw it up. Or who knows, Chaosraven could propose doing Mortis a favor in exchange for a favor back later.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:18 pm

I say wait. Let CR indicate what he wants to do.

I propose that players give as far in advance orders as possible (unless its strategically benefically to hold back) whenever possible. Just so we dont hit any major delays. I know i am having a blast figuring this thing out.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:20 pm

PM him. He's here. He's just werewolfing.

Either way I'm still building a large indigo factory which should leave me with 4 remaining doubloons.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:46 pm

Sorry. Ship Corn. I would prefer to have Indigo left for trade and LM have nothing.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:51 pm

re Build: I have no Dublinz, right?

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:52 pm

Ass.

Ship Indigo
Assume qantaga ships sugar.
Assume tobacco spoilage.

Build a Large Indigo factory.

Not sure who has money (or quarries) to build.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:14 pm

No build for me.