The Empire Strikes Back - Empire Victory

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:09 am

Ok, I know this is unusual, so bear with me for a minute. My wife, who has been following along with this game and the Imperial and Spoiler forum religiously, wrote her own story. She wanted to give out awards to people that stood out in her mind. I have nothing to do with this except for getting her involved in the game at the outset. I agreed to post this because she has graciously let me use her computer throughout the game and has even helped me with edits on the flavor text. Also, she really wanted to do this, and I feel it wise to not make her angry. I would say something about not liking her when she is angry, but that might make her angry, so I will say I owe her something for all the time and effort she has put into the game behind the scenes and the countless hours of enjoyment we have had discussing the happenings as they... well... happen.

bb2112's wife wrote: It is said that behind every great man, there is a great woman. In this case, that woman is the Mod’s Wife; among other duties, she is the one responsible for baking cookies for the Dark Side. Sometimes she even sends roast chicken, pot roast and lasagna to the Detroit gaming crew, although none would dare tell her the lasagna was occasionally subpar. Vader being pissed has nothing on her.

But today there is no cooking - only awards. Yes, awards for the great and glorious play that everyone has seen!

“Theohall,” she calls, and his ghost steps forward. “For your good work lynching the seer, trying to lynch Yoda, and only bashing fellow Rebels, ‘Most Valuable Empire Player Award.’”

“Tru1cy,” she calls next. “Tru1cy?” As usual, he is nowhere to be found, so she puts the milk carton shaped medal back on the counter and moves on.

After Tru1cy, the awards come quickly.

Grundbegriff is awarded the “Rock and a Hard Place” award for pissing everyone else off, and thus sacrificing himself by not revealing his Luke Skywalker scan.

El Guapo receives the “Most Rebellious Kid Ever” award in honor of his paternal conflicts.

Redrun gets the prestigious “Doh” award for admitting he was a special and getting himself killed night one.

Isgrimmner and Purge get matching watches with time zone specific warning bells.

Newcastle gets a Monopoly car for the work he did staying on game while traveling.

Unagi gets the “Cassandra” award for always being right, but never being able to get anyone to listen to him.

WarPig gets the “Rookie of the Year” medal for killing two imperials in a row in his first game.

Mr. Bubbles gets the Sweet Obtuse Triangle award.

RMC gets a signed copy of an ancient song entitled “867-5309” in honor of trying to get SOMEONE to call Mara Jade.

Scoop gets a cell phone; the Imperials will understand.

Chaosraven gets the Mirror award to help identify when he is Chaosraving.

Remus West gets the “Best Impression of a Good Guy Ever!” award.

Austin gets his very own rubber band thrower for having the best gadgets. Even Mara used some.

Most Tortured goes to Stessier, for his untimely early demise on Day 1 and then having to wait 2 months for the game to end.

Qantaga, Jow, Coopasonic, Triggercut, Lagom Lite, Lord Mortis and Lassr all get banana bread for their exceptionally good play. When tempted to mention some kind of allergy issue, Lord Mortis is quickly silenced by a glare from the Mod who wants the ceremony to end so he can have the computer back from his wife.

Since the Dark Side won, the ceremony ends with milk and cookies for all, but mostly for the Mod because truthfully, his wife thinks he was amazing. She is prejudiced. But she’s also ALWAYS right. Just ask her. She’ll tell you it’s the truth, and if you don’t agree, she’ll repeat it until your ears bleed.

And I can attest to the last part, speaking as someone who's ears are bleeding as I type this. Luckily for me, she also has a good sense of humor.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:28 am

Had I not put Grund over, he would have cleared El Guap and added Mara to team good. I think it wound up being a good sacrifice,

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:05 pm

I have no regrets about how I played the hand I was dealt. With a different mix of powers, it would've bagged Remus early in the game. Not sure whether that would've made a huge diff, but I would've been pleased that the gambit had paid off.

A kudos to Team Empire for sticking around until the end of all things.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:05 pm

bb2112 wrote: Mr. Bubbles gets the Sweet Obtuse Triangle award.

Jow · Post by **Jow** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:56 pm

love me some banana bread.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:08 pm

Austin wrote:Had I not put Grund over, he would have cleared El Guap and added Mara to team good. I think it wound up being a good sacrifice,

I agree, your sacrifice probably saved the game for the Empire. Seeing the spoilers that Grund was going to name Remus empire even though he didn't scan him would have eliminated an Imperial, semi-proven Grund and then he still would have had the Luke Skywalker bomb to drop. RMC may have remained hidden and never converted.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:09 pm

Jow wrote:love me some banana bread.

me too, as long as it's not dry, I like moist banana bread. Not that I would say anything to the Mod's wife if it was dry as I do want to live to play another day.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:35 pm

Lassr wrote:
Jow wrote:love me some banana bread.
me too, as long as it's not dry, I like moist banana bread. Not that I would say anything to the Mod's wife if it was dry as I do want to live to play another day.

Lassr, you are a very wise man.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:02 pm

WarPig · Post by **WarPig** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:37 pm

Woo hoo, rookie of the year!

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:13 pm

Thank you, wife of bb2112, for tolerating our collective antics and the vortiginous effect we may have had on the health, sanity, or time management of your chosen/beloved/cornered. Rare indeed is the spouse who can celebrate, rather than lament or look neutrally upon, the ways and demands of the gaming forum.

purge · Post by **purge** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:41 am

GG. I stopped reading at 107. I hung on until then.

I was VERY impressed with CR and LL in sniffing out the right leads, only to then go the wrong direction.

As for the random roles, that's cool and all, but I'd like it if we KNEW that Remus West should die.

In truth, I think the random counts and roles are cool, and once in a while it's OK to have the good guys in the dark on what they face, but that could also be swung differently with the randomized potential roles being given to both sides as "confirmed" roles in the game.

eg: giant list of roles. Players join. Roles are assigned. Roles included in the game are announced. There could even be a couple roles that *will never* get announced - so there is a final count mystery, conversion mystery, but you know most roles that are included so we don't have to wait for Chewie to take a shot.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:44 am

I think you need to remove the shooter from the wolves team. Beserkers are fine, roles that need to be lynched to trigger, but giving the wolves shooters is over-powered imo. Both Star Wars games ended "early" due to a shooter reducing the opposing team's numbers during the day.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:53 am

Remus West wrote:I think you need to remove the shooter from the wolves team. Beserkers are fine, roles that need to be lynched to trigger, but giving the wolves shooters is over-powered imo. Both Star Wars games ended "early" due to a shooter reducing the opposing team's numbers during the day.

See. There were not "berzerkers" in this game.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:08 pm

Got some good feedback.

1. Make shooters be berserkers for the wolf contingent.
2. Define a set of roles for the game and let everyone know what they are at the onset.
3. Maybe eliminate the Mara switching sides role. Still mulling this over.
4. Maybe switch up Yoda and/or Obi-Wan's role to include a PM after they are dead.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:57 pm

bb2112 wrote:4. Maybe switch up Yoda and/or Obi-Wan's role to include a PM after they are dead.

If you do this, you might check out the Medium role that has been used in previous games to see how it worked out there.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:24 am

stessier wrote:
bb2112 wrote:4. Maybe switch up Yoda and/or Obi-Wan's role to include a PM after they are dead.
If you do this, you might check out the Medium role that has been used in previous games to see how it worked out there.

I liked the Medium role. The public execution of the power proved the Role (very powerful impact IMO) and the message from beyond was a bonus.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:38 am

I figured ObiWon should have the added ability if he is killed, he tells Luke who Vader is.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:25 am

Chaosraven wrote:I figured ObiWon should have the added ability if he is killed, he tells Luke who Vader is.

Oh...Now that is a fun little ability..So do you kill the person if you are the wolves? Do you believe that the person really is ObiWon?

But it does sound a little powerful..I think you would need something to offset it. Not sure what, but something..

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:04 am

well played,Team Evil

Now, I initially was not going to play the game due to OO being blocked by my job, but I signed up after bb2112 put out a call for players. Anyway, apologies for the frustration

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:51 pm

/pulls up in his snazzy, emperor limited issue monopoly mobile

Thanks BB for hosting the game. I had a blast even though i had a limited time window at times. Was a fun game and really enjoyed it.

- i think unagi was the clear mvp. He played lights out. Just an awesome game by him.

-I want to award the whole rebels here w/ honorary Imperial placards. Expect them in the mail shortly.

- I think the game was quite large and while fun and added a chaotic element, proved a bit unwieldly. I think it blew up the thread so that folks at the end had to deal with a very unpleasent task of digging through a 110 pg thread.

- I like the traitor role personally. But can understand if people want to have the role in every now and then. I think perhaps if there is a traitor in the future, the Mod should let people know when the traitor crosses over

-I think the fact that the good guys didnt know how many wolves were remainign or where they were at at the starting point hurt them. Perhaps in the future letting the players know they have 15 rebels & 5 imperials might be a good way of starting.

- I like the randomizing of the roles. Keeps things fresh. Though not as a every game occurence.

-I think this does show how someone being quiet (a la truicy) can really hurt the good side. Sorry truicy, but you have to admit that youre participation really prevented people from getting a read on you.

Now....I have one kind of complaint about the game. Early on in the game, Unagi made a post using previous game occurrences to build a case against me. I thought that crossed the "spirit of the game" line. I dont recall that ever really happening (could be wrong here). But I didnt think that was a fair tactic to use. Now, I am not saying to not use people's collective memory...that's cool and it happens. I am more against citing specific poitns and providing links from previous games in order to make a point against another player.

Just doesnt sit well with me. What do you guys think?

I'll provide a link shortly:

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:53 pm

Note I do respond in kind, but i felt i was forced to.

Here's the quote w/ a link:
http://new.octopusoverlords.com/forum/v ... 2#p1850392" target="_blank

Unagi wrote:You can't find it mostly because I don't think Newcastle does do it that much. (IMO. Again, I'm happy to be shown that I am wrong...)

Good Newcastle tends to hold out on us, for the most part.

When he did it this game, it struck me that I once found it suspicious before about him (and it proved true)...

Here is the evil-in-a-past-life ('Blue in the Face') Newcastle, doing it... <-- Link is to the PREVIOUS Star Wars WW game we played.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:03 pm

I don't mind talking about behavioral similarities between games a player was involved in but linking old games should be verboten.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:11 pm

Remus West wrote:I don't mind talking about behavioral similarities between games a player was involved in but linking old games should be verboten.

Why? What is the difference between pointing out a different play style and actually doing the leg work to link to something that supports your position?

I thought it was fine but am open to having my mind changed.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:16 pm

stessier wrote:
Remus West wrote:I don't mind talking about behavioral similarities between games a player was involved in but linking old games should be verboten.
Why? What is the difference between pointing out a different play style and actually doing the leg work to link to something that supports your position?

I thought it was fine but am open to having my mind changed.

I think that it's fair game as well. I fail to see how it is different from any other "tell" a player might have.

It isn't the first time that's happened, either, not by a longshot.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:36 pm

Considering I did it to purge in this game also, I think it's fair game. What I found odd was how drastically purge changed his Day One play style as a good special.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:38 pm

I've talked about past behavior in a game before but I don't recall ever linking directly to an example in another game. I would go as far as say which game it was and let the others peruse at their leisure. I don't think I'd have a problem with it though. I think of it as looking at a history book.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:50 pm

I guess for me it reflects back to the idea of long ago conversations being passed on by word of mouth or if we have a court clerk transcribing all our work and complete compendiums available to peruse during the game. I guess it just breaks a vision of the game I had. I have no issue with talking about what people did but when you link it removes the others from having to look it up themselves or trust you on it. I don't think it has ever been forbidden so I don't think it actually breaks any rules - not even remotely - it just alters my vision of the game. Not an idea that would make me alter my style or quit by any means though so whatever folks want to do is fine.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:12 pm

I kind of agree with Remus. Saying someone is playing different is ok, but posting details from other games just seems over the top. Why do you need to post examples? Are people not going to believe it? Who cares. In both instances where examples were quoted in the game it changed nothing.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:14 pm

First, Newcasle and I are at peace with this... just so my post isn't taken as some strong counter argument. I'm also cool with any way we seem to come to a consensus on it... but I do feel differently then Newcastle about it.

For the record, I certainly didn't feel dirty nor ground breaking when I did it. I'm pretty sure (but could be wrong) that I've seen it from other well regarded players.

Saying someone is playing 'like they do when evil' is certainly not something anyone has a problem with.

In the end, I was trying to make a point and I showed players a specific other game (via the link) to make that point regarding his historic play.

Remus, the 'make em do their own leg-work' argument doesn't go very far (IMO) - becauase I am sure we are all totally cool with people going back and doing the big dig in the 'current game' to dig up evidence for or against something. That's doing leg work too (I'm talking about giving links to help players in the current game).

My point here being: It must be because it's from another game.

Not the 'leg work' part.

All doing that 'leg work' part does - versus me saying "Trust me, I know that Bubba does this all the time when he's a wolf" - is it helps the player show that he's not just making it up out of thin air. Would it be bad if Player A said something, but then Player B did the leg work and felt like sharing? Perhaps you are arguing that all old games are kept to the 'folk lore' level.

And, I can get behind that - if we feel that's what that is all about. Something about being on the Forum, and how this isn't the person-to-person game, makes me feel that we can and should use what's readily available to us to win/lose the game. In this case- that does end up being some transcripts.

Personally, even if some guy shows me a Link that actually backs up the statement he's making - - - - It's still debatable if they are doing it as a Good Guy looking for evil, or as Evil setting up a good guy, and that's where I'm left wondering what's so wrong about it.

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:26 pm

bb2112 wrote:Why do you need to post examples? Are people not going to believe it? Who cares.

Well obviously, I cared if people believed me.

let me take you into my head (don't worry - it's pretty empty): what he did struck a memory. That was something I needed to share, and did, in a post.
Next I went out and I needed to see where it was that I recalled it.
I found it.
I showed people I wasn't crazy - I recalled it because it happened before.

That's me playing the game. I'm talking about what I'm seeing and I'm sharing that. We are playing on a Forum that has a history of our games, and we all enjoy that very fact. It's not unnatural for me to think back to those games and compare people's play styles and play 'moments', etc.

I just think it's artificial to think we wouldn't ever go back and look at other games for comparison (I do not do it often though, as it's like a needle in a hay stack, what on earth would one really look for).
And then, what is the point to then say "and it's verboten" to place links to those games to help people understand how you came to vote for McMeanie.

Talk to your wife. She knows I'm right.

/runs away

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:37 pm

Talking about other games is fine, I'm just not a fan of finding and posting quotes from them. I don't hold it against you if you do, it is just not my preference. And nobody thinks you're crazy.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:49 pm

I think he's crazy! ...kidding...kidding....

Let me reiterate that I think Unagi was a rock star in the last game for the rebels. I think he did a fantastic job in his detections and such. I dont want this complaint to be seen as me being upset that he sniffed me out or anything. I aint like that. He did well and I dont want this taking away from that credit.

As Unagi said, we're at peace w/ each other and neither holds a grudge. I am not upset at him, but am weirded out by the play. I dont want to call it dirty since i feel thats too harsh...just odd and kind of out of the spirit of the game.

I guess i view each game as a self contained unit with mainly the same cast of characters from previous iterations. I find it odd that you need to find past quotes in order to buttress a claim. I think that can easily be taken out of context and screw people over. As Unagi admitted to me in PM he only took lists in which i had made when evil. I find it odd that its needed to bring back a past game in order to prove that point....when its really the game at hand that you really should be worried about.

I dont mind if people go "hey newcastle always roleplays when he's evil, lets lynch him". Or use past behavior "hey he usually doesnt do crap like this" in terms of how they play and detect stuff. I am cool with that.

I think how you use evidence in presenting your case should be more based on the facts at hand within the testimony and statements made within the game. I think broadening it to include past "crimes" or actions just...adds a wrinkle that i dont care for.

I mean we know its there, people can look it up if they want. And post game i guess i dont mind. I guess its just what happened in the past might have bearing on whats going on currently but do you really need it to prove your point? Why cant you build a case against someone without proving those links?

I guess its how i view the game and see how its played. I havent see that happen too often in these games. And if i am wrong in that assesment, please point out to me where its been done before.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:23 pm

bb2112 wrote:I kind of agree with Remus. Saying someone is playing different is ok, but posting details from other games just seems over the top. Why do you need to post examples? Are people not going to believe it? Who cares. In both instances where examples were quoted in the game it changed nothing.

But that cuts both ways - if it doesn't change anything, then why not allow it? Who cares about whether a player searches old games or not?

I'm fine with it. I think the distinction between referencing specific old games and searching old games is artificial - either it's ok to refer to other games (either each game truly is self-contained) or it's not; I don't think how effectively one does it is material.

Now, if links to old games provided some near foolproof method of sniffing out a wolf, then that might be a different story. But I don't think that's anywhere near being true.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:45 pm

Also, I just realized that I do not know how to link to specific posts.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:53 pm

^
|
Here

Teach a man to fish
Click on that tiny little white piece of paper - your URL will change to that exact post in the thread.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:54 pm

Look for this image:

near the date/timestamp. It will function as a link to that specific post. You can right-click on it and Copy the Link Address to get the direct URL.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:54 pm

El Guapo wrote:Also, I just realized that I do not know how to link to specific posts.

See the tiny page icon next to the place where it says "by El Guapo"?

or

Right click on it, and the popup menu will allow you to copy the url to that post.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:56 pm

Thanks all three of you!

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:30 am

I am pro-linking.