Story of the Chaos Order of the Dark Mages(WW)-Game Over

[triggercut]

(BTW, bb, after RMC, I kind of have theohall and Kraegor on the same plane...or "had" when I made my post about it. Situation is fluid and changing.)

[RMC]

I guess if I had to do my number 1 and 2 currently on my lynch list it would be:

Stessier
Triggercut

You don't say?

So I'm reading, reading, and wondering who he's going to put on the list and then I read that and my first thought was those exact words.

Invoking the Triggercut Principle--of which I'm a big fan, obviously--on Day 4 is a misuse of that particular dumb thing that got named after me. Day 1? Right on. Day 4? C'mon mannnnnnn....

Ahh..But come on... When else is it good to apply the rule?

[theohall]

I guess if I had to do my number 1 and 2 currently on my lynch list it would be:

Stessier
Triggercut

You don't say?

So I'm reading, reading, and wondering who he's going to put on the list and then I read that and my first thought was those exact words.

Invoking the Triggercut Principle--of which I'm a big fan, obviously--on Day 4 is a misuse of that particular dumb thing that got named after me. Day 1? Right on. Day 4? C'mon mannnnnnn....

Ahh..But come on... When else is it good to apply the rule?

It's lazy this late in the game and has me re-thinking - yet again.

[theohall]

Eliminating Day One behavior, my candidates would be RMC, Kraegor, and stessier - in that order. Just wanted to throw that out there after looking at stuff one more time this evening.

So - do we throw out Day One, or count it?

[RMC]

Not so much Lazy, as I really have no idea. Sometimes I see something that sticks out, and latch onto that. But in my reread, I would lynch me. I have played a very bad game, when none of my thoughts were right. And I do look like a wolf.

I wish I saw something in my read over everything, but I really do not see the wolf. I am not him, but I can certainly see why you would think I am the wolf.

I thought poking the two people that have expressed doubts at me being a wolf, but still want to lynch me were my best targets.

Unless the wolf is Theo(who I am almost 100% sure is not) then Kraegor is the final wolf...If I am wrong.

But I think the wolf is Stessier. I think he knows he can get my lynched, and then he only needs one more.

But BB wanted two, so I gave him two. <shrug> That's my thoughts.

[triggercut]

Not so much Lazy, as I really have no idea. Sometimes I see something that sticks out, and latch onto that. But in my reread, I would lynch me. I have played a very bad game, when none of my thoughts were right. And I do look like a wolf.

I wish I saw something in my read over everything, but I really do not see the wolf. I am not him, but I can certainly see why you would think I am the wolf.

I thought poking the two people that have expressed doubts at me being a wolf, but still want to lynch me were my best targets.

Unless the wolf is Theo(who I am almost 100% sure is not) then Kraegor is the final wolf...If I am wrong.

But I think the wolf is Stessier. I think he knows he can get my lynched, and then he only needs one more.

But BB wanted two, so I gave him two. <shrug> That's my thoughts.

So...stessier is your wolf....but if not him then Kraegor, unless it's theohall. And you didn't mention me here, but in that previous post it was me and stessier, and no mention of Kraegor or theo?

[Kraegor]

Is this remuscide 2.0?

Right now I'm leaning towards voting for theohall. I'm not interested in giving two choices. Don't like it? Aww shucks.

[Kraegor]

But I think the wolf is Stessier. I think he knows he can get my lynched, and then he only needs one more.

Your argument is correct and also incomplete. Your situation can be exploited by every player in this village.

You've been the obvious choice for the simple fact that you fit the expected stereotype of quiet wolf.
You've not only been wrong but at complete odds with every movement thus far.
And you are meandering about like confused puppy hoping to get some scraps.

[bb2112]

(BTW, bb, after RMC, I kind of have theohall and Kraegor on the same plane...or "had" when I made my post about it. Situation is fluid and changing.)

Totally understand about being fluid. That is the point of the exercise.

[bb2112]

Theohall - Kraegor, Stessier
Stessier - RMC, Theohall
Triggercut - RMC, Theohall
RMC - Stessier, Triggercut
Kraegor - Theohall
bb2112 - Kraegor, Stessier

Kraegor's unwillingness or inability to play in the reindeer games does not help my thoughts about him. I see wolfy behavior in a lot more than one person, why is he only focused on one? I know I was tunnel visioned on Remus for the first three days, but I was pretty certain. Is Kraegor that certain about Theo?

Now that we have this list, what do we think?

[stessier]

But I think the wolf is Stessier. I think he knows he can get my lynched, and then he only needs one more.

Your argument is correct and also incomplete. Your situation can be exploited by every player in this village.

You've been the obvious choice for the simple fact that you fit the expected stereotype of quiet wolf.
You've not only been wrong but at complete odds with every movement thus far.
And you are meandering about like confused puppy hoping to get some scraps.

You know stereotypes exist for a reason, right?

[stessier]

Now that we have this list, what do we think?

I think we lynch RMC and start the celebrations.

[RMC]

Now that we have this list, what do we think?

I think we lynch RMC and start the celebrations.

For the wolves, you mean?

[Kraegor]

Kraegor's unwillingness or inability to play in the reindeer games does not help my thoughts about him. I see wolfy behavior in a lot more than one person, why is he only focused on one?

I posted a conceptual threat matrix of every player still alive. That I must lynch only one is a rule not a choice.

[Kraegor]

Eliminating Day One behavior, my candidates would be RMC, Kraegor, and stessier - in that order. Just wanted to throw that out there after looking at stuff one more time this evening.

So - do we throw out Day One, or count it?

Yeah... cuz day one is when the card players outted their scans and we can see how none of that behavior has been relevant.

And newcastle is fixated on moving the remus voters to bb2112, villager per theo card use.

Looks like day one behavior was very revealing.

[stessier]

Okay, this whole thing with all of you only being on at night and then I'm only on during the day is a real bummer.

Let's get the RMC vote going. He's a wolf. He's bad at math. He's bad at voting for anyone but Villagers. He's bad at hiding. Let's end him.

Nothing personal RMC.

[RMC]

Okay, this whole thing with all of you only being on at night and then I'm only on during the day is a real bummer.

Let's get the RMC vote going. He's a wolf. He's bad at math. He's bad at voting for anyone but Villagers. He's bad at hiding. Let's end him.

Nothing personal RMC.

I am not a wolf, and I am not bad at math. The voting, yeah I am bad at that.

[bb2112]

RMC is not the wolf.

See pg. 26 10:38 am. Remus calls out Theo to be the wolf. RMC jumps on the vote right after. The last remaining wolf would not be lock step with Remus on this vote in case this backfires. He definitely wouldn't come in and vote right after Remus.

There are other things that clear RMC in my mind, but this one is blatant.

[RMC]

RMC is not the wolf.

See pg. 26 10:38 am. Remus calls out Theo to be the wolf. RMC jumps on the vote right after. The last remaining wolf would not be lock step with Remus on this vote in case this backfires. He definitely wouldn't come in and vote right after Remus.

There are other things that clear RMC in my mind, but this one is blatant.

Thanks BB. I am bad a choosing who to vote for, but I am not a wolf.

[Kraegor]

1) Remus voted for redrun to shift focus away from theohall
2) newcastle pushed for bb2112, also shifing focus away from theohall
3) theohall tries to float an idea that day 1 behavior shouldn't be considered

....

I also wont vote for BB or anyone connected w/ the scan cards (ie theo, Qantaga & Redrun)......figure night kills will clear up any confusion and prove/disprove the folks who've been fingered w/ a card. Again this goes back to their cards and how they were played. They werent pressured in releasing that info. I think we'll know more about the veracity of their claims after a couple of night cycles have passed. If they are villagers, i much rather the wolves deal with them rather than us potentially hanging em. Lets put the pressure on the bad guys.

The other thing though is i really, really didnt like that train that moved on him so fast. Its less to do with his actions but more so to do with the actions of others. Thats why i wont vote for him....go figure.

This rings strange.

The reason a villager would be wary of a fast train would be if he was afraid that the train was being driven by wolves.

This is the group that boarded the Remus train {El Guapo, RMC, triggercut, kraegor, bb2112}.

So, following Newcastle's assertion that he didn't like the fast train forming on Remus, wouldn't it follow that he should be looking for wolves in the group he suspects of driving the train... here ---> {El Guapo, RMC, triggercut, kraegor, bb2112}?

Yet, he has only voted here:

kraegor ----- Qantaga ----- redrun ----- Chaosraven ----- Newcastle ----- stessier ---- Chaosraven

The only vote that he has cast for anyone on the Remus train was Kraegor and that was long before the Remus train had left the station.

As I keep saying, let the wolves sort out the Card 4. Even if spartacus was played...the chances of at least 1 of em being good is great. Its too risky for a wolf to fake card clear a partner for one, for two its a dumb for a wolf to clear a villager by declaring someone clear via a scan...why do that? its not a smart play. If you get a scanner as a wolf you sit on it. You "clear" someone you lessen youre hiding spots.

...if they are still around in a couple of days, then we really start digging into their story and accusations history. But right now, i think there is too great of a chance of hurting the village if we pursue that line of inquiry. The other aspect to this...say all 4 are telling the truth...they've just uncovered a massive amount of hte board for us...that's a nice ace in the hole to have for us....and one i dont mind gambling to have as a villager. I'm kind of hoping for the best, preparing for the worst. Let em live, see what happens at night.

And also take note that remus and newcastle are hashing out qantage and redrun. I brought up the discussion by zeroing in on bb2112 and theohall... remus changed the subject and newcastle went with it.

i could drop a vote on stessier if a train forms on him....in case we need another consensus lynch....i wont vote for theo, redrun, Q nor BB. There are a few others am hesitant to vote for, and a few that are more of a higher priority to test in my eyes.....stessier being amongst them.

The Redrun train is ludicrious....seriously....we're going to bark up that tree?

newcastle seriously wants to avoid questioning of the scanners. And he's fighting against a train created by remus.

Newcastle at 4: El Guapo, Qantaga, bb2112, triggercut.

I think those votes are all current and operative.

ah elg, i forgot about him.

Still have the spartacus card Theo...and of all of the villagers, i'd lean BB as being most likely....but we'll know for sure soon.

pushing the focus to the scanee not the scanner

Villagers - take a SERIOUS look at BB tomorrow guys. Verify if spartacus comes back around. Take a serious look at Trigg also guys. Verify if spartacus was in anyones hand on day 1. I have a feeling that BB will be alive tomorrow.
.

Theohall has spent the entire game in irate defense of bb2112. Good cop, bad cop.

Ever curious see who is willing to vote for whom BB? Like ya know where people are willing to let their vote wander to?

Absolutely. I am also interested in who people won't vote for. You won't for Remus. Like you know beyond a shadow of a doubt he is good.

What I find interesting is that you focus on Newcastle not wanting to vote for me today yet completely ignore redrun saying he thinks I'm evil but want votes so no way is he voting for me today. Why is one of them evil for it and the other good? They both look evil to me. redrun even more so as he has been careful to make sure I'm a target for the next day. Nothing like long term planning to make me wary.

again redirecting focus away from theohall

They killed redrun and qantaga consecutively. The advantage in doing that is it gives the appearance the killing of the scans is going according to expectations while they still retain theohall's cover by leaving bb2112 alive. In addition remuscide requires the existence of 1 trusted. With this gambit, you leave 1 trusted alive and lead him around by the nose.

[Kraegor]

 theohall 
 

[theohall]

RMC on Day One.

I already said... Last game is a good a reason as any too off Remus on day one.

Do I suspect he's evil any more than anyone else..Nope.. But on day one, unless someone slips up and says something that only a wolf would know, we don't have really anything to go on.

So last game is as good as any reason in my book to off Remus.

While this could be a cover, I doubt it. Taking RMC off of my bad guy list.

Really? That's all it took to get him off your list? RMC voted for Remus and Bubbles on the first day. You don't think it would have gained a wolf a little cred to lynch Wolf-Remus on Day 1? And that with the wind blowing that way, it was good to be on that vote?

BTW, my pointing at Kraegor first and not you is on just as flimsy stuff from Day One, but go ahead and ignore that part too.

Kraegor or stessier is the wolf. Vote is still on Kraegor. I do not intend to vote RMC at all. If you all want movement, it should be one of these two.

[theohall]

BTW, Kraegor, I floated the Day One idea because stessier was bringing up Day One behavior stuff as flimsy. It was a reaction to someone else poo-pooing Day One behavior. Nice of you to ignore stessier's comments about it. This is you manipulating as you have done this entire game attempting to get me lynched.

Once again, Kraegor is focused on me, and solely me as the wolf. Anyone else wonder why? He appears to have no doubts about RMC or stessier being innocent for some reason. The only one I can see is him being the wolf.

Three of you have doubts about RMC.
Three of us have doubts about stessier.
Two of you, in addition to Kraegor, have doubts about me.
Kraegor appears to have no doubts about anyone, but me.

Does this not seem odd?

If we follow the logic behind bb2112 trying to help the village find a wolf, should we not lynch the one being the least helpful?

[Kraegor]

It's puzzling how a threat matrix is being ignored in order to justify a lie about how I am not considering anyone else. I have considered everyone. I posted an objective analysis of every living player.

It is true I am focused on lynching theohall today. And as I've already pointed out, we can only lynch one person. I find it odd that this concept is challenging for some folks.

Why would I post a lynch candidate for tomorrow? That's idiocy. It's like handing a wolf a night time menu.

[bb2112]

It's puzzling how a threat matrix is being ignored in order to justify a lie about how I am not considering anyone else. I have considered everyone. I posted an objective analysis of every living player.

It is true I am focused on lynching theohall today. And as I've already pointed out, we can only lynch one person. I find it odd that this concept is challenging for some folks.

Why would I post a lynch candidate for tomorrow? That's idiocy. It's like handing a wolf a night time menu.

Actually you seem to be the only one that is mentally challenged by this issue. You are obviously confused by simple concepts. So was Remus. Coincidence?

[RMC]

I think that Stessier is the wolf. I think he used the Japan trip as I great cover for day one and some day two, and how he could hide for the first two days of the game..Not that he was 'hidden'. But it gave him cover for any change in play style.

One of the first WW games I played in, I was on team bad guy as the berserker. Stess and I think Lassr were my partners in crime. They were awesome. It was like watching a bunch of master manipulators work the crowd at a healing tent revival.

They even showed me how to get lynched, to use my power to maximum efficiency.

His play style this game reminds me of that WW game in the past. That is why my vote is on him, not the triggercut rule. My vote on triggercut is the triggercut rule, as it amused me, and I figured I have to be right on Stessier being the wolf.

Again, I could be wrong, as I have been a lot this game. But I just feel I am right.

[stessier]

See pg. 26 10:38 am. Remus calls out Theo to be the wolf. RMC jumps on the vote right after. The last remaining wolf would not be lock step with Remus on this vote in case this backfires. He definitely wouldn't come in and vote right after Remus.

I don't find that a convincing argument at all. That is actually an excellent place for the other wolf to hide.

However, theo won't vote RMC and neither, apparently, will Kraegor. Thus, it is dead in the water.

It then comes down to theo or Kraegor. A vote for theo is a vote for the conspiracy theory on the first day. Possible, certainly, but a bold play. His explanation of that play is clumsy at best. I would think a wolf who made the play would do so with a bit more finesse rather than throwing how great a play it is in our faces.

So  kraegor 
 

[stessier]

I think that Stessier is the wolf. I think he used the Japan trip as I great cover for day one and some day two, and how he could hide for the first two days of the game..Not that he was 'hidden'. But it gave him cover for any change in play style.

Heh. No.

[Kraegor]

Challenged by which issue? I covered multiple topics therefore your vague reference only makes sense in your head. If you wish to make a point, you should try to be specific.

I suppose you could be thoroughly confused by everything I have said to this point. Perhaps I haven't connected enough dots for you to follow?

Here's a simple exercise. You've got your nifty 2 person list in which I was not a primary target for this day. Even after holding out on contributing. How wise would it be to then raise my visibility even higher, if I were a wolf? I could have easily nudged things in a much more diplomatic manner. After all, a wolf couldn't give half a rat's ass to control who gets lynched today because it doesn't matter. Among the 3 on the bubble, the order of their death's is irrelevant. All that matters is controlling the perception of the swing votes (triggercut / bb2112). Because ya see... they die last.

[Kraegor]

oh hah, I take it back I am number one on the list. Go ahead and lynch me. Please note that bb2112 and theohall are in agreement. I like that part.

[theohall]

How wise would it be to then raise my visibility even higher, if I were a wolf?

This does not hold water. Many wolves have hidden in plain sight by increasing their visibility and posting their ideas late in a game, especially when they are the last wolf. On top if it, they tend to use your exact argument about not raising their visibility. I have done it at least twice successfully.

[theohall]

I still don't know if it is Kraegor. If it is not, then I would look at stessier. They were and still are my two best candidates.

[Kraegor]

This is you manipulating as you have done this entire game attempting to get me lynched.

How many times have you voted for me?
How many times have I voted for you?
Anyone like to do the count and validate who's been attempting what?

Once again, Kraegor is focused on me, and solely me as the wolf.

Today this is true. Seeing as to how I did not vote for you at any other time, I'll have to conclude that "once again" is you illustrating your skill as a narcissitic drama queen.

[Kraegor]

However, theo won't vote RMC and neither, apparently, will Kraegor. Thus, it is dead in the water.

It then comes down to theo or Kraegor. A vote for theo is a vote for the conspiracy theory on the first day. Possible, certainly, but a bold play. His explanation of that play is clumsy at best. I would think a wolf who made the play would do so with a bit more finesse rather than throwing how great a play it is in our faces.

So  kraegor 
 

What a weak justification. Why would you allow people you believe to be wolves determine whom you would be willing to lynch?

If you believe me to be a wolf, then yes vote for me. But waffling with a halfassed "well you won't kill my wolf choice, wah wah" ???

[stessier]

Challenged by which issue? I covered multiple topics therefore your vague reference only makes sense in your head. If you wish to make a point, you should try to be specific.

I suppose you could be thoroughly confused by everything I have said to this point. Perhaps I haven't connected enough dots for you to follow?

Here's a simple exercise. You've got your nifty 2 person list in which I was not a primary target for this day. Even after holding out on contributing. How wise would it be to then raise my visibility even higher, if I were a wolf? I could have easily nudged things in a much more diplomatic manner. After all, a wolf couldn't give half a rat's ass to control who gets lynched today because it doesn't matter. Among the 3 on the bubble, the order of their death's is irrelevant. All that matters is controlling the perception of the swing votes (triggercut / bb2112). Because ya see... they die last.

You seem far more zen than I remember. Not that it's a bad thing, just saying. Maybe this is a Grund alt?

[theohall]

This is you manipulating as you have done this entire game attempting to get me lynched.

How many times have you voted for me?
How many times have I voted for you?
Anyone like to do the count and validate who's been attempting what?

Once again, Kraegor is focused on me, and solely me as the wolf.

Today this is true. Seeing as to how I did not vote for you at any other time, I'll have to conclude that "once again" is you illustrating your skill as a narcissitic drama queen.

If one only counts votes, this is true. But are we not supposed to read what people wrote and base decisions upon that also? Keep flailing Kraegor. You are caught.

[theohall]

The one thing that mitigates the argument against theohall is the fact that I am still alive. I've been casting doubt on theohall the entire game.

Once again, Kraegor is focused on me, and solely me as the wolf.

Today this is true. Seeing as to how I did not vote for you at any other time, I'll have to conclude that "once again" is you illustrating your skill as a narcissitic drama queen.

Which is it? Casting doubt the entire game or just today?

[Kraegor]

So casting doubt is the same as trying to lynch? Interesting.

[Kraegor]

If one only counts votes, this is true. But are we not supposed to read what people wrote and base decisions upon that also? Keep flailing Kraegor. You are caught.

I've been trying to figure out how your response relates to the quote and haven't been able to discern a relationship. I was illustrating how your hyperbole had no basis in fact. You in turn responded with the above vaguery.

Yes, there is a methodology known as deductive reasoning that players are encouraged to employ. Should we draw from your characterizations of absolute certainty of player identity on several occasions that you were privy to inside intel none of us villagers had access to?

Notice how you constantly attempt to characterize my actions as evil but always back down when you think people are tuning you out? Why do you feel the need to that?

[theohall]

If one only counts votes, this is true. But are we not supposed to read what people wrote and base decisions upon that also? Keep flailing Kraegor. You are caught.

I've been trying to figure out how your response relates to the quote and haven't been able to discern a relationship. I was illustrating how your hyperbole had no basis in fact. You in turn responded with the above vaguery.

Yes, there is a methodology known as deductive reasoning that players are encouraged to employ. Should we draw from your characterizations of absolute certainty of player identity on several occasions that you were privy to inside intel none of us villagers had access to?

Notice how you constantly attempt to characterize my actions as evil but always back down when you think people are tuning you out? Why do you feel the need to that?

Backed down? What are you talking about? My vote is still on you and has not changed. And you are evil. Maybe you should look up hyberbole, because I don't think the definition is quoting someone's own words - which are essentially contradictory - and asking them which set of words is true. Keep on flailing.

Kraegor has cast doubt on me the whole game, but claimed me innocent then.
Kraegor today is now voting for me.
These were both Day 4 actions by the oh-so-wise and knowing attempting-to-teach-us Kraegor.

We don't need any lessons to kill a stinking Kraegor-wolf.

Here is the question - why was Kraegor casting doubt on me the whole game? Maybe because he knows my scan of bb2112 was true. I have not seen anyone remaining casting similar doubt the whole game and actually posting about that doubt. Yes, there is doubt from others now, on Day 4, which is completely justified.

Ah, well. I will stop rambling and let the rest of you sort it out.