2012 Elections

[Defiant]

Voter Fraud!

Two Republicans in separate states were taken into police custody during the past week for allegedly attempting to test how easy it would be to commit voter fraud.

[GreenGoo]

Guardians of the democractic process.

Heroes I say!

[Carpet_pissr]

Wow. Romney was supposed to be the Republican savior?! Worst. Moses. Ever.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/god-has-a-bigger-plan/" target="_blank

This guy was/is a prosecutor for the DoJ. Do you know him/of him Mr. Fed?

[Kraken]

growing voter hoards of socialists, communists, anti-Semites, anti-Christians, atheists, radical gays and lesbians, feminists, illegal immigrants, Muslims, anti-Anglo whites and others

I'm not sure I've ever been part of a horde before. I think I like it.

[silverjon]

He clearly wrote "hoard". Now go get piled up in the basement with the others.

[Malachite]

He clearly wrote "hoard". Now go get piled up in the basement with the others.

No, damn it! I insist on being Hoarded in a massive cave, on the side of an active volcano, with a terrible fierce dragon guarding me!

[Biyobi]

growing voter hoards of socialists, communists, anti-Semites, anti-Christians, atheists, radical gays and lesbians, feminists, illegal immigrants, Muslims, anti-Anglo whites and others

I'm not sure I've ever been part of a horde before. I think I like it.

It's nice. We get cookies!

And I'm definitely an anti-Anglo white. Saxons 4eva, bitches!

[YellowKing]

This election was lost because Republicans didn't show up to the polls, plain and simple. The nation still leans conservative. If they had shown up, Romney would have won, despite the liberal "hoards."

[Malachite]

The nation leans conservative. It doesn't fall head over heals down a flight of stairs conservative.

While it's quite possible that Romney would have governed as a "leaning conservative" type, he spent a great deal of time kissing the far right's behind, and I think a good portion of the "moderate leaning conservative" types were pretty sick of it. I have a number of relatives who have always voted Republican who are getting mighty pissed at the extremists who have hijacked their Republican party. I think at least a few of them voted for Obama.

[RunningMn9]

This election was lost because Republicans didn't show up to the polls, plain and simple. The nation still leans conservative. If they had shown up, Romney would have won, despite the liberal "hoards."

To put it more simply, this election was list because less people voted for Republicans, everywhere it mattered.

WHY that is, isn't plain and simple. When you've lost four of the last six presidential elections (and had fewer votes in five of the last six), perhaps it's time to stop thinking that everyone agrees with you?

That said, the Latino population does tend to be very conservative, but they voted en masse for the non-conservative. Maybe figuring that out will help the Republican Party figure out that their election failures at the national level aren't just because all their massive numbers of followers decided to not vote.

This was the easiest election for them to win since 1980, and they fuct it up. And it's not so plain and simple as you are suggesting (the belief that it is, is a big part of the reason though, so your halfway there).

[Kraken]

This was the easiest election for them to win since 1980, and they fuct it up.

Which makes me wonder anew why none of their "A" List ran. The primaries gave us a flock of crazies, Mitt Romney, and John Huntsman (who was the same thing without the brand recognition). The best they could do was Mitt fucking Romney? Really??

Come to think of it, since Moderate Mitt was the version that surged during the last few weeks, Huntsman probably would've been the winning choice after all.

[Captain Caveman]

Come to think of it, since Moderate Mitt was the version that surged during the last few weeks

Just goes to show that the country doesn't lean that far right, and the Romney campaign knew it. There's a reason his surge coincided with him pivoting sharply to the middle in the first debate. He receded so rapidly from his previous far right positions during the primary that by the third debate, he was agreeing with everything Obama said.

[Kraken]

Come to think of it, since Moderate Mitt was the version that surged during the last few weeks

Just goes to show that the country doesn't lean that far right, and the Romney campaign knew it. There's a reason his surge coincided with him pivoting sharply to the middle in the first debate. He receded so rapidly from his previous far right positions during the primary that by the third debate, he was agreeing with everything Obama said.

That's why I said Huntsman might have won it (had he miraculously been nominated without pandering to the wingnuts). Romney was a poseur; Huntsman was the real deal.

[Exodor]

The nation still leans conservative.

You know, I keep seeing this claimed but I'm unclear on the evidence.

The Republican party is unpopular while the Democratic party has a net favorable rating

The Tea Party movement even more so

Solid majorities support amnesty for illegal immigrants

Majorities support abortion rights and same sex marriage



So other than party popularity and the most contested social issues, where the majority of the country supports liberal positions, the country leans conservative?

[Defiant]

The nation still leans conservative.

You know, I keep seeing this claimed but I'm unclear on the evidence.

The Republican party is unpopular while the Democratic party has a net favorable rating

Republicans:Conservative::Democrats:Opposite of Conservative?

Solid majorities support amnesty for illegal immigrants

Hmm...

Code: Select all

 	Legal
residency 	Stopping flow,
deporting 	Unsure 	  	 
  	  	% 	% 	% 	  	 
  	

9/28-30/12
	56 	39 	5 

And yet, 9 month prior:

Code: Select all

11/18-20/11 Adults
	42 	55 	3

And while they also support

Code: Select all

 "As you may know, in 2010 the state of Arizona passed a law that requires police to verify the legal status of someone they have already stopped or arrested if they suspect that the person is in the country illegally. Do you approve or disapprove of Arizona's immigration law?"
2011: "As you may know, last year . . . ."
 
  	  	Approve 	Disapprove 	Unsure 	  	 
  	  	% 	% 	% 	  	 
  	

7/1-8/12
	64 	32 	4 	 

Huh.

Majorities support abortion rights

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Code: Select all

 "Do you think abortion should be legal under any circumstances, legal under only certain circumstances, or illegal in all circumstances?" If "legal under only certain circumstances": "Do you think abortion should be legal in most circumstances or only a few circumstances?" Combined responses
 
  	  	Always
legal 	Legal in most
circumstances 	Legal in a few
circumstances 	Always
illegal 	Unsure
  	  	% 	% 	% 	% 	%
  	

8/22-23/12
	35 	9 	37 	15 	3

The country is about roughly split on these issues.

[Exodor]

I can't really read the polls you posted but I assume you cherry-picked a few.

Here's something more readable:

Immigration





To be fair it's much clearer that majorities support amnesty for children brought over (the Dream Act) than blanket amnesty but...



Abortion






I ignore polls that ask respondents to self-identify as Pro-Life or Pro-Choice. I suspect (without evidence) that a decent number of Pro-Lifers take Herman Cain's position - they don't approve of abortion but don't want the government making the decision (that's otherwise known as Pro-Choice)

Same-Sex Marriage





The numbers on same-sex marriage have moved a LOT since Obama came out in support.

The country is about roughly split on these issues.

Which makes it conservative...?

Still waiting for evidence.

[Defiant]

The country is about roughly split on these issues.

Which makes it conservative...?

Still waiting for evidence.

Well, he said "leans" conservative. I'm not convinced that the parties haven't moved more conservative compared to, say, the 60s/70s.

[Carpet_pissr]

Come to think of it, since Moderate Mitt was the version that surged during the last few weeks

Just goes to show that the country doesn't lean that far right, and the Romney campaign knew it. There's a reason his surge coincided with him pivoting sharply to the middle in the first debate. He receded so rapidly from his previous far right positions during the primary that by the third debate, he was agreeing with everything Obama said.

That's why I said Huntsman might have won it (had he miraculously been nominated without pandering to the wingnuts). Romney was a poseur; Huntsman was the real deal.

The anti-intellectualism (anti-elitism?) tenet of the Tea Party prevented Huntsman from ever being a serious contender. Too bad, IMO, I really liked the guy from the little I saw of him.

[Exodor]

Well, he said "leans" conservative. I'm not convinced that the parties haven't moved more conservative compared to, say, the 60s/70s.

Depends on the issue. Gay rights have clearly moved leftward. I think abortion is pretty accepted.

I'm completely ignoring economic issues of course - partly because neither party is really conservative economically at this point.

[Carpet_pissr]

neither party is really conservative economically at this point.

I continue to be shocked that this was not the election for a third party to really spread its wings, and take advantage of that very fact. Why the hell did this not happen again (not talking about winning, even...just showing up?) Think how many voters out there would eat that shit up? Or did the Tea Party try, and then ruined it for all the other contenders due to their generally batshit insanity on non-economic issues?

If a 3rd party, built primarily on fiscal conservatism, couldn't get a decent showing this time around, in these particular circumstances, I am thinking it will never happen...at least not in our lifetime.

Kinda sad...I would love to see that happen, as I think it would only benefit the country, and possibly even reduce a lot of our current partisan bickering (since there would be an additional target).

[Holman]

If a 3rd party, built primarily on fiscal conservatism, couldn't get a decent showing this time around, in these particular circumstances, I am thinking it will never happen...at least not in our lifetime.

The problem is that you don't get to run for "President of the Economy." You have to have stances on every other issue, so support for a third party with an economic focus is already split in two by the fact that it must lean left or right on everything else.

[Defiant]

Depends on the issue.

Yes, of course.

Gay rights have clearly moved leftward.

Agreed. Legalization is another area it has.

I think abortion is pretty accepted.

Disagreed. Polls have tended to be fairly consistently split on the issue over the long term, occasionally being slightly more pro-choice and occasionally being slightly more pro-life.

Indeed, Gallup shows that we're a lot less pro-choice than a couple of decades ago.

Gun control is another area where the country has shifted rightward.

While there's still a majority of support for unions, that support has dropped significantly

[Blackhawk]

Part of the problem is that a huge number of people don't vote the issues. Hell, they don't even understand the issues (if they even know what they are.) They vote their party, and they do so regardless. It doesn't help that they get their information from strongly partisan sources, and deliberately ignore contradictory sources.

I still remember asking my grandmother how she voted one year. She said Republican. I asked her why. She said it was because her late husband always voted that way. She probably didn't even know the major differences between the parties.

[YellowKing]

Still waiting for evidence.

I'm not talking about cherry-picking a handful of issues. I'm talking simple polls. More Americans identify themselves as conservative than liberal.

If you want to go by party affiliation, Democrats slightly outnumber Republicans until you start throwing Independents into the mix, which tend to lean Republican (as of the last couple of years). You also have to consider that groups like southern Democrats tend to be more conservative leaning than your average California Democrat.

[Carpet_pissr]

If a 3rd party, built primarily on fiscal conservatism, couldn't get a decent showing this time around, in these particular circumstances, I am thinking it will never happen...at least not in our lifetime.

The problem is that you don't get to run for "President of the Economy." You have to have stances on every other issue, so support for a third party with an economic focus is already split in two by the fact that it must lean left or right on everything else.

Agree, and in fact I had included that very point in my original post, but in THIS particular climate, when the economy seems to be trumping every other issue on American minds, it seems logical that the timing was perfect. i.e. that many would have been able to hold their noses about the non-economic platforms they are not crazy about, in order to vote for the much preferred economic stance they want.

[Defiant]

Still waiting for evidence.

I'm not talking about cherry-picking a handful of issues. I'm talking simple polls. More Americans identify themselves as conservative than liberal.

If you want to go by party affiliation, Democrats slightly outnumber Republicans until you start throwing Independents into the mix, which tend to lean Republican (as of the last couple of years). You also have to consider that groups like southern Democrats tend to be more conservative leaning than your average California Democrat.

I'd also point out a few more things:

Registered voters are a lot more liberal than likely voters.

Some groups, like African Americans, tend to be more (socially) conservative than their voting history suggests (eg, on issues like marriage equality, etc)

Democrats tend to be more of a big tent party, compared with republicans, that tend to be more likely to call someone who isn't in perfect alignment a RINO. This has resulted in a number of... extreme... candidates in recent years.

[Defiant]

Here's a breakdown of people's views economically and socially, between conservative, liberal and moderate identification.

[Captain Caveman]

If indeed the country leans right, then the Republican party is doing something wrong with that built-in advantage. They've lost the popular vote in 5 of the last 6 presidential elections.

[Defiant]

If indeed the country leans right, then the Republican party is doing something wrong with that built-in advantage.

Yes. IMO, they're moved further from "center right" than the Democratic party.

They've lost the popular vote in 5 of the last 6 presidential elections.

Well, to be fair, in three of the last six elections, no one won a majority, and in another two, the elections were pretty close (possibly historically so).

[YellowKing]

If indeed the country leans right, then the Republican party is doing something wrong with that built-in advantage. They've lost the popular vote in 5 of the last 6 presidential elections.

I think most Americans are moderates. The Democratic party has moved rightwards in recent years on fiscal policy, but the Republican party has not moved leftward on social policy. It's no wonder that many Republicans have re-identified as Independents - they're trying to meet the Democratic party in the middle since the Republican party has shown no inclination of doing so.

The Democratic party has (smartly) co-opted a lot of traditionally conservative principles - no tax raises on middle class, balanced budget, and I think we saw in the debates that foreign policy is nearly identical between the parties. Basically the Democratic party has taken advantage of the conservative leanings of the country by morphing to fit it. The Republican party's response has been to go even farther right.

Personally I think the Republican party's social platform is absolutely untenable in this day and age. Right now I'm literally identifying with half of both parties. And if that's the case, why shouldn't I just be an Independent? Like a lot of other people, I can't think of a reason why not.

[El Guapo]

If indeed the country leans right, then the Republican party is doing something wrong with that built-in advantage. They've lost the popular vote in 5 of the last 6 presidential elections.

"Right" and "left" are relative terms, of course, so it depends on what you're comparing a party or a country to. For example, the United States is definitely a right leaning country compared to most of Europe. But it's way left leaning compared to, say, the U.S. during the Gilded Age.

[Pyperkub]

About that 47% comment... yeah, it really appears as if that's how he views America (per Hot Air - pretty conservative site):

In a conference call on Wednesday afternoon with his national finance committee, Mr. Romney said that the president had followed the “old playbook” of wooing specific interest groups — “especially the African-American community, the Hispanic community and young people,” Mr. Romney explained — with targeted gifts and initiatives.

“In each case they were very generous in what they gave to those groups,” Mr. Romney said.

“With regards to the young people, for instance, a forgiveness of college loan interest, was a big gift,” he said. “Free contraceptives were very big with young college-aged women. And then, finally, Obamacare also made a difference for them, because as you know, anybody now 26 years of age and younger was now going to be part of their parents’ plan, and that was a big gift to young people. They turned out in large numbers, a larger share in this election even than in 2008.”

HotAir, as well as others, are skeptical:

There are three big reasons why Romney lost, I think, and none of them are about gifts. First, people just … didn’t like him that much. His favorable numbers improved towards the end after the Denver debate, but at best he was at rough parity with Obama. ...

...Second, he got out-organized — badly. ...

...Third, I’m echoing other conservative writers in saying this — Ramesh Ponnuru, Ross Douthat, and Reihan Salam, for starters — but the GOP needs a more dynamic pitch to working families, a.k.a. the middle class. That’s what Jindal’s rejection of Romney is all about. “Class” talk tends to make righties nervous for good reason; coming from the left, it’s almost always a prelude to calls for redistribution. But it’s a useful way to define people whose lives are consumed with familiar problems of everyday life — work, pay, debt, tuition, gas prices. Address those basic concerns and they’ll pay attention. Besides, if the GOP is doomed under normal demographic metrics like race and gender, then it urgently needs to try to reshape how voters define themselves. Emphasize the middle class and you can compete across demographics that might otherwise view you coolly.

[Kraken]

Romney's remarks just show that he still doesn't get it: People didn't vote for Obama as much as they voted against Morphing Mitt. I suppose that would be a hard truth to accept...much easier for him to stay in his bubble.

[Smoove_B]

Seriously -- Last Tuesday? "He's our guy!" Today? "Get off the stage, Mitt.".

[Holman]

Cut Mitt some slack. Bush Junior hung around for *weeks* after he lost in 2000.

[msduncan]

ROLL TIDE MR. PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[YellowKing]

I liked today's Mallard Filmore:

[Isgrimnur]

Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) is out come January:

South Carolina Sen. Jim DeMint (R) announced Thursday that he would resign from the Senate in January to become president of the conservative Heritage Foundation in Washington, D.C.

DeMint's unexpected resignation subtracts one of the Senate Republican conference's foremost immigration hawks just before Congress is expected to tackle a comprehensive immigration reform effort next year.

I guess he has the perception that lobbyists are more powerful than elected officials. Can't say I have the evidence to prove him wrong.

[Carpet_pissr]

He knows that lobbyists are more powerful than elected officials.

FTFY

[AWS260]

He knows that lobbyists are paid a hell of a lot more money than elected officials.

FTFY

FTFTFY