Othello, The Moor of Venice (GAME OVER!)

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:37 am

withdraw lassr

......though he's still high on my list of folks...

we kind of have to be careful of team evil also, one of em is a zerker.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:42 am

meh cant hurt....

i'm desdemonia....

no reason for me to stay hidden anymore...i really cant do anything...except get othello killed by sticking my foot in my mouth.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:02 am

triggercut wrote:
stessier wrote:
triggercut wrote:As the guy who was shopping for cheap 1980's electronic music keyboards once said: "Are there any other Cassio's around here?"
Yeah, I've turned it over every which where and there is no where I can hide. Why did you out me? By my figuring, you had a 50/50 chance I was good. Why not just come forward with Lassr and say you know one other and let me protect you? It seems very odd.

And no one will contest it.
I didn't out you. I gave the results of what I scanned. Had we hung an innocent today and I died in the night, is it a good play for me to have left the game with two scans and no reveal of that info?

Frankly, Othello is a fairly useless "powered" character. None of his information is worthwhile.

We agree on something!

I was thinking about this since the game started and was wondering how it would be played. I decided if I was Othello, I would have come forward and said as much, but not told my scans. The information is worse than useless, it is dangerous under most circumstances. And you are a walking time bomb as long as Desmonda is around. I even considered (while thinking about how to play Othello) coming forward on Day 1 just so I would die early and prevent the dual day kill.

Along those same lines, I think the best play would have been for Desmonda to come out on Day 1. (The best, best play is actually for Iago to come out as Desmonda on Day 1, but I'm trying to win here.) That would prevent the accidental Othello double whammy and give us a smaller pool. Didn't happen though.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:07 am

triggercut wrote:At any event, I came forward with my information--and my vote remains on stessier--for the following reasons:

1. stessier's still alive.

2. Qantaga died on night 2. Q was the first vote on stessier on day 1. While it's extremely circumstantial and it's not "proof" by any means, I can envision a scenario where the killing of Q was because they were worried he'd scanned stess.

3. I knew when I came forward that stessier would claim to be Cassio. I had hoped his claim would be countermanded. It wasn't.

4. My vote remains on stessier because he didn't come forward at N-1. He was worried about which role to claim, or whether to claim one at all. I think Cassio would have come forward at N-1. I was hoping he would and save me from having to out myself. Didn't happen. That he didn't come forward reinforced to me that he isn't Cassio, claim or not.

FWIW, I don't think he's Cassio at all. I think he's Rodrigo.

My vote remains on him.

I'm an unreliable source of info, though.

And you are also not thinking logically. You don't kill me today. You kill me tomorrow if you die in the Night. You are eligible for my protection and will get it (barring someone who has not checked in claiming Othello). Even if I am countered, which I won't be, you don't waste a possible protection as the Baddies will take care of it for you during the Night.

As for the N-1, why wouldn't I try to figure out if I had to claim Cassio or just "good special"? It would have at least given the Baddies something to think about rather than laying it all out for them.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:10 am

Newcastle wrote:trig - regarding point 4, he did come out at n-1. and after your sloppy reveal.

So despite your scan of stessier, you think him evil....though due to a fatal flaw he could be an evil dude

and due to your scan of lassr, you think good...although he can still be evil....

but your still chasing stessier..and dont see anything funny about lassr.

interesting.

not biting on stessier...he's been vibing good to me.

In fairness, there is a 50/50 chance I am lying. There is a 1/7 chance he is wrong and Lassr is Iago. Also 1/7 that he is a possible traitor who wasn't turned when scanned. So much better odds on me.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:11 am

Newcastle wrote:meh cant hurt....

i'm desdemonia....

no reason for me to stay hidden anymore...i really cant do anything...except get othello killed by sticking my foot in my mouth.

Interesting!

I'm curious, why didn't you come out sooner?

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:53 am

I've been waiting for people to come out when they had reason. I was wondering if there were norms against it beside the risks of setting yourself (or someone else) up to be killed.

I'm unsure of whether ID'ing myself will help or hurt, so I'll not do it yet.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:23 am

Holman wrote:I've been waiting for people to come out when they had reason. I was wondering if there were norms against it beside the risks of setting yourself (or someone else) up to be killed.

I'm unsure of whether ID'ing myself will help or hurt, so I'll not do it yet.

If you can contest someone's claim (for example, if you were Cassio, then you would know I can't be Cassio), it is almost always best to come out and contest it. In this particular game and at this point, I can't think of any reason not to contest any of the claims made.

If you can't contest, the only other role you could have is Emilia. That role kind of has it's own win conditions, but if it wanted to side with the Good Guys, I can't see why it wouldn't come out. Evil certainly isn't going to off you in the Night - they are hoping you will join them.

If you are just a Villager, no one will believe you.

Evil and certain playstyles of Emilia will also claim Villager, so claiming such is pretty much the same as saying nothing.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:53 am

So we have all 4 specials out in the open now unless someone is lying.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:57 am

Can anyone think of a scenario where trig is not Othello? Because I can't.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:27 am

stessier wrote:Can anyone think of a scenario where trig is not Othello? Because I can't.

sure, you two are Iago and Rodrigo. Oh you mean realistic scenario...Not really with out going way way out on a limb.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:53 am

Lassr wrote:So we have all 4 specials out in the open now unless someone is lying.

Four? Do tell.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:56 am

I'm about to ask the kind of questions a noob would ask, for I am the worst of noobs:

1) If I understand the rules rightly, members of Team Evil know each other from the beginning (or else how could Iago "consult with his teammates" about murder?), but members of Team Good do not know each other (hence all the scanning). Is that so?

2) Presumably Team Good is forbidden from consulting with one another outside the thread.

3) The course of the game is Good trying to find Evil while Evil remains hidden.

4) Does good win only if *all* the Evil players are eliminated, or just Iago?

5) Lying is allowed. This is why members of Team Good can't simply declare themselves as such; Evil players would simply claim to be Good.

I'm sorry for the rudimentary questions, but this format is different from my earlier Werewolf experience (where there was one villain rather than Team Evil).

I suppose you might suspect me of *pretending* to be a noob to mask my core of evil, but I assure you that I am sincere.

I am what I am.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:03 pm

Holman wrote:I'm about to ask the kind of questions a noob would ask, for I am the worst of noobs:

1) If I understand the rules rightly, members of Team Evil know each other from the beginning (or else how could Iago "consult with his teammates" about murder?), but members of Team Good do not know each other (hence all the scanning). Is that so?

Yes. Generally Evil has a separate forum they can log into and chat. Otherwise it is handled through PMs. The forum is more fun because the

can go there and see what Team Evil was plotting...and complain about the people still alive and their inability to see the forest for the trees.

2) Presumably Team Good is forbidden from consulting with one another outside the thread.

Yes. Good team members can only post about the game here. No PMs or any other contact about the game anywhere else. You can also PM the mod with any questions.

3) The course of the game is Good trying to find Evil while Evil remains hidden.

4) Does good win only if *all* the Evil players are eliminated, or just Iago?

Yes to 3 and "All" to 4. Evil wins at the first point where the number of Evil players => number of Good Players.

5) Lying is allowed. This is why members of Team Good can't simply declare themselves as such; Evil players would simply claim to be Good.

Yep.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:05 pm

Thanks!

See how Good I am?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:05 pm

triggercut wrote:
Lassr wrote:So we have all 4 specials out in the open now unless someone is lying.
Four? Do tell.

Me, you, Newcastle, and presumably Holman.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:29 pm

stessier wrote:
triggercut wrote:
Lassr wrote:So we have all 4 specials out in the open now unless someone is lying.
Four? Do tell.
Me, you, Newcastle, and presumably Holman.

Holman is still the mystery but he sure sounds like he is claiming a special role.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:33 pm

Lassr wrote:
stessier wrote:
triggercut wrote:
Lassr wrote:So we have all 4 specials out in the open now unless someone is lying.
Four? Do tell.
Me, you, Newcastle, and presumably Holman.
Holman is still the mystery but he sure sounds like he is claiming a special role.

I'm not a special.

All this time I've been trying to figure out whether there is any way I might harm my Team Good Venetian homies by revealing my identity. I don't see how it can.

I am merely a Venetian gentleman.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:36 pm

Holman wrote:I'm not a special.

All this time I've been trying to figure out whether there is any way I might harm my Team Good Venetian homies by revealing my identity. I don't see how it can.

I am merely a Venetian gentleman.

That's not an identity - that's cannon fodder.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:50 pm

Holman wrote:
Lassr wrote:
stessier wrote:
triggercut wrote:
Lassr wrote:So we have all 4 specials out in the open now unless someone is lying.
Four? Do tell.
Me, you, Newcastle, and presumably Holman.
Holman is still the mystery but he sure sounds like he is claiming a special role.
I'm not a special.

All this time I've been trying to figure out whether there is any way I might harm my Team Good Venetian homies by revealing my identity. I don't see how it can.

I am merely a Venetian gentleman.

you either just pulled a masterful sneaky evil move or you are what you say you are. I tend to believe you.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:50 pm

So assuming everything is true, that leaves

bb2112
Chaos
RMC
theohall

and in there is Emilia and Roderigo.

And in

bb2112
Chaos
RMC
theohall
Lassr
Holman

is Iago.

With me and trig out, it is possible that Evil had scanned a special and Newcastle just picked the one we would have zero desire to lynch, but it seems fairly unlikely.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:59 pm

stessier wrote:
Holman wrote:I'm not a special.

All this time I've been trying to figure out whether there is any way I might harm my Team Good Venetian homies by revealing my identity. I don't see how it can.

I am merely a Venetian gentleman.

That's not an identity - that's cannon fodder.

Oops--I see too late how I may have harmed my friends.

I am an Act III casualty and a fool.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:14 pm

Holman wrote:
stessier wrote:
Holman wrote:I'm not a special.

All this time I've been trying to figure out whether there is any way I might harm my Team Good Venetian homies by revealing my identity. I don't see how it can.

I am merely a Venetian gentleman.

That's not an identity - that's cannon fodder.
Oops--I see too late how I may have harmed my friends.

I am an Act III casualty and a fool.

really no harm revealing this info since the other specials have revealed themselves except one. Now if no one had revealed it's best to keep a normal identity secret to help your specials hide. But they are in the open now so no harm. EMilia is hiding or dead and she can convert so she probably doesn't care to reveal now.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:17 pm

Lassr wrote: EMilia is hiding or dead and she can convert so she probably doesn't care to reveal now.

But if she is alive, why wouldn't she? The conversion is a luck thing - not really a choice. So revealing narrows the pool for our search while only providing we would lynch her last. I think she doesn't reveal only if she is dead or already converted.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:36 pm

stessier wrote:
Newcastle wrote:meh cant hurt....

i'm desdemonia....

no reason for me to stay hidden anymore...i really cant do anything...except get othello killed by sticking my foot in my mouth.
Interesting!

I'm curious, why didn't you come out sooner?

ya know i cant do anything, except make sure i dont die. I didnt really think of needing to come out earlier. I had no heat on me or anything. IN terms of strategic gameplay, I honestly didnt think of it to come out earlier as you mused a few posts ago.

i did feel coming out now was best due to no heat on me and the other specials out. Figured it would clear the board a bit. Also, with 2 specials out...hopefully can somehow create a save situation so trig gets one MAYBE 2 more scans tomorrow.

Anyway, interesting discussion.

Now I was thinking if you were the 'zerker...how would you play? I would tend to think that you want to to get lynched. Hence you adopt your play that way. The one who really comes to mind is CR, and I do wonder if he's the 'zerker.

For now I believe Trigs & Stessier's claim. Funny enough Trig was actually high on my list of evil candidates due to his cagey gameplay..but i can attribute that now to his being othello. Bah, have to somehow wipe that bias from my mind and recalibrate my thinking.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:41 pm

Newcastle wrote:For now I believe Trigs & Stessier's claim. Funny enough Trig was actually high on my list of evil candidates due to his cagey gameplay..but i can attribute that now to his being othello. Bah, have to somehow wipe that bias from my mind and recalibrate my thinking.

Didn't you pick up on this?

triggercut wrote:I'm grappling with all the unreliable data in this game.

Othello isn't much of a seer, Emilia is just probable enough to switch teams that she's unlikely to share useful information either way.

I'm having trouble constructing actionable postulates.

I thought he might be just planting seeds, but there really is no way I can think of where he fakes the role this way.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:42 pm

Oh, and about Emilia - the longer the game goes on, the more likely she is to convert. So the sooner we get this over with, the better.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:47 pm

i honestly didnt put that in context Stessier. I was also a bit befuddled by the rules at various parts of the game so to me when I read that I felt a kinship of befuddlement with the rule set. So kudos to you for your picking up on it.

Yeah I kind of wonder if Emilia should volunteer to be lynched? Or if they want to win with team evil. Doubt if they will pipe up.

We still have at least 2 evil in this pool though -

rmc
theo
CR
BB
Holman

of course this is based on the following being truthful
triggercut - othello
stessier - cassius
newcastle - desmodea

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Newcastle wrote:i honestly didnt put that in context Stessier. I was also a bit befuddled by the rules at various parts of the game so to me when I read that I felt a kinship of befuddlement with the rule set. So kudos to you for your picking up on it.

Yeah I kind of wonder if Emilia should volunteer to be lynched? Or if they want to win with team evil. Doubt if they will pipe up.

We still have at least 2 evil in this pool though -

rmc
theo
CR
BB
Holman

of course this is based on the following being truthful
triggercut - othello
stessier - cassius
newcastle - desmodea

Lassr should be in that list. Iago scans as Good.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:26 pm

Wow, I thought the outings would spark a bit more participation.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:28 pm

stessier wrote:Wow, I thought the outings would spark a bit more participation.

+1

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:31 pm

Newcastle wrote:
stessier wrote:Wow, I thought the outings would spark a bit more participation.
+1

maybe some are waiting for Iago and Rodrigo to out themselves...

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:32 pm

I want to go back to BB or Chasoraven.

Chaosraven

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:32 pm

bb2112

I'm thinking it is the other one.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:09 pm

i'm leery of going for CR right now...

i can go for BB though

BB

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:13 pm

Umm... Wow, have a few meetings and a Christmas party and boom the world goes up on it's ear.

So here is what we have(if everyone is telling the truth):

triggercut - othello
stessier - cassius
newcastle - desmodea

Holman - Normal

Lassr - Scanned

Unscanned/ Possible evil:

rmc - I am not, but who believes me?
theo - Seems to be playing as usual..
CR - Maybe evil(Now that Newcastle says he is Desmodea...But not sure if I should believe Newcastle as he is tricksy....)
BB - Maybe evil
Holman - Says he is a normal

This would explain the CR and BB not being as active against anyone together this game.

So I will go for BB as being evil, as I am usually wrong about these things.

bb2112

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:15 pm

Well, apparently I chose poorly.

Since BB was my original target then

BB2112

N-1

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:28 pm

Tuesday: Votes

theohall acc stessier(1)
Newcastle acc triggercut(1)
stessier acc Holman(1)
Holman acc stessier(2)
triggercut acc stessier(3)
Newcastle wd triggercut(0)
Newcastle acc Chaosraven(1)
Lassr acc bb2112(1)
theohall wd stessier(2)
theohall acc Holman(2)
bb2112 acc Lassr(1)
Newcastle wd Chaosraven(0)
Newcastle acc Lassr(2)
Lassr wd bb2112(0)
Lassr acc Chaosraven(1)
bb2112 wd Lassr(1)
bb2112 acc stessier(3)
Lassr wd Chaosraven(0)
Lassr acc stessier(4)
bb2112 wd stessier(3)
Lassr wd stessier(2)
Newcastle wd Lassr(0)
Lassr acc Chaosraven(1)
stessier wd Holman(1)
stessier acc bb2112(1)
Newcastle acc bb2112(2)
RMC acc bb2112(3)
Lassr wd Chaosraven(0)
Lassr acc bb2112(4)

Against stessier(2): theohall, Holman, triggercut, bb2112, Lassr
Against triggercut(0): Newcastle
Against Holman(1): stessier, theohall
Against Chaosraven(0): Newcastle, Lassr, Lassr
Against bb2112(4): Lassr, stessier, Newcastle, bb2112, Lassr
Against Lassr(0): bb2112, Newcastle

Votes requires for a majority: 5

No vote registered:
bb2112, Chaosraven

Men of Infinite Jest

Lagom Lite
Qantaga
Remus West

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:35 pm

now if only scoop were playing...he'd know what to do.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:03 pm

Just got caught up. I am also only a Venetian Gentleman. But.... time for someone to go....

bb2112