[WW]BSG IX -Cold Blood (Game over)

[theohall]

I'm getting the feeling that Qantaga is being set up by Theo. Qantaga came up with a based off Theohall's post and it was a solid plan, imo. Theohall should know if surviving if good shouldn't be his primary concern it should be the village winning.


I'm not voting for Qantaga, but I can for Theohall or maybe RMC.. Although I think RMC would be a waste

Lastly, voting for me would be a miss lynch. I have no problem being offed if it would give the village more clarity, but we tend to overlook this stuff and I really believe Theohall is a wolf hiding in the open

Hope you enjoy crow pie when I die and the game does not end while Qantaga mysteriously survives the night again.

[RMC]

I'm getting the feeling that Qantaga is being set up by Theo. Qantaga came up with a based off Theohall's post and it was a solid plan, imo. Theohall should know if surviving if good shouldn't be his primary concern it should be the village winning.


I'm not voting for Qantaga, but I can for Theohall or maybe RMC.. Although I think RMC would be a waste

Lastly, voting for me would be a miss lynch. I have no problem being offed if it would give the village more clarity, but we tend to overlook this stuff and I really believe Theohall is a wolf hiding in the open

Hope you enjoy crow pie when I die and the game does not end while Qantaga mysteriously survives the night again.

Well of course Q will survive the night, he is the one that has the most suspicion on him now..thanks to the two of us.. <shrug> But I think the game ends with voting you off Theo.

[theohall]

Go ahead, RMC. I know the game won't end with my death.

[Qantaga]

I know the game won't end with my death.

That is correct. The game won't end with your death.

Here are the facts of the game:

Wolf #1 - Scoop
Wolf #2 - Vorret
Wolf #3 - theo or purge
Wolf #4 - Qantaga, tru1cy, RMC, or Mr Bubbles

The only (highly unlikely) way theo's death could end the game is if both he and purge were evil. For that to happen, we would have to have an incredibly inept Anders who didn't bother to speak up at the time, because it is a virtual certainty that Anders was still alive when theo and purge both claimed to be Anders. In other words, it defies credibility to think theo's death will end the game.

To reiterate, we have one of two paths we can take:

Path 1: Ignore theo and try to lynch the 1 wolf in 4 players {Qantaga, tru1cy, RMC, Mr Bubbles}. The risk to this path is that, if theo is evil and we miss, the game will be over today. This is the path to take if the majority believe that theo is good.

Path 2: Lynch theo. We then know that we have definitely killed Wolf #3, whether it was theo or purge. The last wolf will kill someone tonight. Then, tomorrow there is 1 wolf in 3 players to decide the game. This is the safer path that ensures we cannot lose today. This is the path to take if the majority think it possible that theo is evil.

Before theo claimed Anders, my readthrough to that point led me to believe theo to be evil. However, both Remus and bb seemed willing to bet the game that theo was indeed Anders. Tomorrow, I plan to read through the events surrounding theo's and purge's counter claims of Anders and theo's posts since that time.

[tru1cy]

Took me a minute to understand, but you're right, Qantaga. Just a theory but what if Purge and Theohall conspired to get one them lynched while the living one become a de facto trusted? Risky? Sure, but we seen gambits like this before. Purge was garnering a lot of distrust. Him getting lynched was probably the likely outcome.

Anyway, I still feel like Theohall is our best option.

[Qantaga]

Just a theory but what if Purge and Theohall conspired to get one them lynched while the living one become a de facto trusted? Risky? Sure, but we seen gambits like this before. Purge was garnering a lot of distrust. Him getting lynched was probably the likely outcome.

While it's worth considering, it's really not possible for both purge and theo to be evil.

Here's why:

At that time of the game, the following people had been killed:

pr0ner- Athena
Chaos - Human
Newcastle - likely Starbuck
Unagi - Human
Scoop - Evil
LM - Cain
Holman - Human
Vorret - Doral

That means that when theo claimed Anders and purge counter-claimed him, Anders was still alive.

If theo and purge are both evil, then that means we had a live Anders who did not speak up, knowing that two people were lying about being Anders. At the time, RMC was MIA and there was some speculation that RMC could be Anders, but he's been back and certainly would have jumped on the theo/purge Anders claim in his re-read, if he were Anders. It is virtually certain that theo or purge is Anders.

So, it is very unlikely that both theo and purge are evil.

That's why I want to go back and look at the events surrounding their claims.

[theohall]

Big flaw here. I know purge was a wolf and for 2 evils to be alive today, one of them has to be a a converted Galen who would have shot someone already. It seems Qantaga forgot to include this in his efforts not to lynch a wolf.

 Qantaga 
 


It is not like it was not heavily discussed that for 2 evils to be alive today one of them would be a converted Galen the day before ad nauseam. Why is it Q is completely ignoring that now?

He is the last wolf.

[tru1cy]

Yeah, I'm not falling for that.. Still holding off on voting. Waiting to hear what RMC and Bubbles think

[RMC]

Yeah, I'm not falling for that.. Still holding off on voting. Waiting to hear what RMC and Bubbles think

I say Theohall tonight. And if we miss on him, then it is a free for all.

[Qantaga]

for 2 evils to be alive today, one of them has to be a a converted Galen who would have shot someone already. It seems Qantaga forgot to include this in his efforts not to lynch a wolf.

It is not like it was not heavily discussed that for 2 evils to be alive today one of them would be a converted Galen the day before ad nauseam. Why is it Q is completely ignoring that now?

theo, I'm confused. I don't understand what you're accusing me of ignoring.

It sounds like you are accusing me of not considering a converted Galen today.

This is becoming tiresome because, yet again, as you have been doing the entire game, you are either not reading my posts, or you are deliberately misrepresenting me.

I have indeed considered a converted Galen. Here (before Mr Bubbles checked in):

Or could the last Cylon have a shot? Which would mean he would need to wait until Day 6 to kill us... Hmmm...

The last Cylon could not have a shot. There is still at least one original wolf unaccounted for. A converted Galen is game over today.

And here:

With everyone checked in, we know that we do not currently have a converted Galen, or the game would be over.

And, when I thought you were actually being truthful in your post that you would be a distraction today and your lynch would move us to a 1 in 3 chance of winning tomorrow, I even considered this:

The other unlikely, but much more dangerous, risk is that theo is evil and his remaining mystery partner is D'anna. If so, they may have narrowed Galen down such that they know that he will be converted tonight. Thus, by sacrificing himself, theo assures evil of a win with a Galen conversion tonight. It seems highly likely that D'anna is already out of the game because she would have to be incredibly unlucky not to have found Galen by now.

As you yourself even say (in the same post where you are accusing me of ignoring a converted Galen), the game would be over if Galen were alive and converted.

A converted Galen has no place in either Path 1 or Path 2 that I outlined above because it has a zero possibility of being true.

[Qantaga]

I've looked at the events surrounding theo's and purge's claims of being Anders. I'll summarize them when I get some free time this afternoon.

In the meantime, it would be nice to hear from Mr Bubbles.

[Lassr]

Day 5
1 Qantaga ----------
2 theohall ---------- Qantaga
3 tru1cy ----------
4 RMC ----------
5 Mr. Bubbles ----------
.
Qantaga -1 ----- theohall
-----


Majority = 3
Deadline is: No deadline yet.

pr0ner -------- pricked
Chaosraven -------- de-furred
Newcastle -------- bashed
Unagi ------- Cained
Scoop ------- Scooped
LordMortis ------ iced
Holman ------- blown
vorret ------- assploded
Purge ------ toast
redrun ----- red ran
BB2112 ------ fasttracked
Remus West ----- subtracted

[Mr Bubbles]

I've looked at the events surrounding theo's and purge's claims of being Anders. I'll summarize them when I get some free time this afternoon.

In the meantime, it would be nice to hear from Mr Bubbles.

I'll be happy to give my input, but I've been reviewing things, because I'm trying to figure out the plausibility of suggestions so far. I really don't want to just throw a vote out there, but won't be able to check during the day as I am booked solid all day with appointments.

[Lassr]

1352

Qantaga studied the radar image that was beamed down from Galactica. The storm had intensified. They needed to find the Cylons soon.

[theohall]

I've looked at the events surrounding theo's and purge's claims of being Anders. I'll summarize them when I get some free time this afternoon.

In the meantime, it would be nice to hear from Mr Bubbles.

Do me a favor. Seriously read purge's posts and voting patterns while looking at who he chose to defend and attack. If his actions don't paint him as a bad guy if you actually take the time to check, I will absolutely know you are the last remaining evil cylon, especially when you compare his actions and words to mine.

Unfortunately, I suspect you will instead lead everyone down the primrose path to your victory.

My role does give me one fact. I absolutely KNOW there is only one evil cylon remaining - and that is without even needing to use any powers. But keep on ignoring it. I was saying it yesterday, everyone ignored it. I am repeating it today, yet you are very much set on mostly ignoring it.

Why not end the game today by actually killing the one remaining bad guy?

I don't mind getting lynched for the village. I do mind the village being led to their doom by a helpful bad guy.

We may have to add Qantaga-cide or some other variation to this when the bad guys win.

[RMC]

I've looked at the events surrounding theo's and purge's claims of being Anders. I'll summarize them when I get some free time this afternoon.

In the meantime, it would be nice to hear from Mr Bubbles.

Do me a favor. Seriously read purge's posts and voting patterns while looking at who he chose to defend and attack. If his actions don't paint him as a bad guy if you actually take the time to check, I will absolutely know you are the last remaining evil cylon, especially when you compare his actions and words to mine.

Unfortunately, I suspect you will instead lead everyone down the primrose path to your victory.

My role does give me one fact. I absolutely KNOW there is only one evil cylon remaining - and that is without even needing to use any powers. But keep on ignoring it. I was saying it yesterday, everyone ignored it. I am repeating it today, yet you are very much set on mostly ignoring it.

Why not end the game today by actually killing the one remaining bad guy?

I don't mind getting lynched for the village. I do mind the village being led to their doom by a helpful bad guy.

We may have to add Qantaga-cide or some other variation to this when the bad guys win.

I still think your the last bad guy, which means you are not. But I have to go with my gut on this, no matter how bad my gut is.

[theohall]

Very long post. These are all of purge's posts. Please take the time to read through them. IMO, it proves purge was an evil cylon. It also makes me suspect tru1cy and Qantaga because of how little he even mentions those two. One of the two are the last evil Cylon. Let's see what Q says if he takes the time to read this. My comments within this are in bold italics.

Can't believe I'm the first one to check this thread...

Anyway, pr0ner brought it. Lets see how fast I get lynched for actually posting more

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're a cylon pretending to be tru1cy.

I know I haven't been around here much, but if ANYTHING seems it's out of place, it's that people are asking where pr0ner is, and not where tru1cy is.

Well that escaladed quickly.

Is that a Canyonero joke?

Anyone have Coles Notes on Vorret and Horman?

I didn't come prepared for class.

Remus is an easy vote - and certainly a pretty obvious lynch target.

 theohall 
 
on the other hand ...

 tru1cy 
 

I get tired of him cluttering up the thread with all his inane chatter.

Your irony is not lost on me.

 Scoop 
 
As per himself, a safe unpowered ship-rider. He'll leave no stations unmanned when he steps out the airlock. The first day play around his nomination will get interesting as the game goes on. We'll avoid the paths that lead to outing specials.

I doubt you're going to find a different claim from *anyone* on Day 1, so using that as a basis for a vote is pretty thin - unless you're trying to get the noobs to train on someone?

Also - has Remus proven himself to be better alive than dead? It seems to me there was an old adage about the only good remus is a dead one ... and my feelings are still hurt from the last time he made a fool out of me.

Frankly, I think theohall is a Cylon. I think Holman is probably a Cylon too but he is heavily hinting that he is a good Cylon. Still deciding how I feel about that.

Just curious: why Theohall?

The "logic" regarding the explosive guy is faulty to the point of reading as being intentionally so. Going after Holman when Holman has clearly hinted very very heavily that he is a good Cylon adds to it. He simply doesn't seem to be looking for someone who is evil so much as he seems to be looking for someone to take the fall.

It's funny how you refer to Holman in third person when speaking directly to him.

Faulty programming?

Destructive and unhelpful?! I'm hurt.

Aw, and I'm all out of sympathy for the Devil(s).

Argh. You guys are making much out of nothing. I mean it.

In my experience, Holman, I found that letting them get to you will only make it worse - you'll get so wound up that you'll get labeled "histrionic" and then the village loses Heimdall. True story - happened to a friend of a friend of mine.

They're arguing about the spots on the back of a tiger, which may or not have actually been a dalmatian. Eventually we're all going to vote against Newcastle because somehow he says something that sets off three or four peoples radar, the wolves will move it forward and some poor schmuck will hang with no hope of redemption.

Also, despite me not liking Remus in these games (since he's so darned good at playing people), I think he is either an incredibly bad archer, or a very helpful wolf.

It should be noted that Newcastle's name was selected at random. It's too bad this forum doesn't have a [random:listitem1,listitem2,listitem3] function, so that it would change every time you view it.

So I don't feel like sifting through a previous game - there seems to be a lot of references to it as being a factor in this game (which I sincerely believe is just adding mud to perfectly good water).

Can someone give me a quick coles notes on the result so I can enjoy those references as much as I have enjoyed the ones I've just used (and are likely years old already and have no relevance).

Lastly, the claim of villager, which people may not readily admit to under pressure, would certainly be used by wolves (and to correct Unagi, there are no good wolves ... posting in the wrong forum?) and good specials alike. There is no pressure, and why draw unwanted attention day 1?

The only reason to do so is to draw a scan (seems the last time I played someone, possibly BB tried for three or four days to get a scan from Darth Vader), or to plant comments to later reference.

Scan me, Spoof or Proof. It's how I see it.

What do you think he is saying, Scoop? I ask because I really do not think you get it.

Purge, what's a bad archer? Would that be someone who doesn't realize that we have several good guys in this game who will die "wolf"?

Good is good. Bad is bad. Wolves, by the definition of the game are hunting - good cylons are not "good wolves" nor do they die "wolf". We simply are applying labels that don't really fit just because we're lazy. A cylon being executed does not mean we have bagged a wolf any more than not. Besides starbuck, aren't ALL specials going to "show wolf" when hung? (I'm only half-way through season 4, so while Starbuck is being thought of as a cylon due to her miraculous survival, there is no confirmation - please don't spoil it. )

So, it's going to be one of those games, huh, Unagi?
Sigh.

A werewolf game?

Am I doing something special here?

Noted.

Up to this point he has made counters against both Unagi and Remus West while defending Scoop once.

So here's a hypothetical to help fuel discussion (and perhaps draw in those who are lurking instead of playing) ...

If we assume Mister H is a cylon and we hang him, we may have killed our only hope of finding bad-guys, no? While he clearly slipped up in that he's likely not human, by no means does that mean he's the shooter - he could be "special" save for Starbuck or Cain who should hang "human" AFAIK.

The lynch will show us that we're either down a human or a toaster but not whether we were successful in killing a bad guy.

It would seem to me that he's more likely on the wolves dinner plans should he survive the day. Seems to me we'd be doing them a favor, killing Holman. If he doesn't die tonight but is protected and no night kill happens, doesn't that mean Starbuck could eventually validate him?

Night Sequence:
1. Leoben interrupts Starbuck
2. Starbuck searches
3. Starbuck protects
4. D'Anna scans
5. Athena scan.
6. Cylons assassinate
7. Leoben scans for Starbuck


Athena (good Cylon) –Each night she can scan to find Cylons.
Anders - (good cylon) If he is scanned by D’Anna or Athena he will maintain a connection and will know who she has scanned up to that point and who she scans henceforth. He will not know the roles of the scanned just the player names. He will also know the number of Cylons that are among the players scanned at the time the connection is made. If Anders is lynched the autopsy will show cylon.
Galen Tyrol –(Good Cylon-may convert) He is unsure of his loyalty after discovering he is a Cylon but continues to assist the humans. If he is found by Athena he will give his sidearm to another player of his choice at anytime during the game (day or night after the night found), that player then will have the ability to kill during the day cycle (does not replace the lynch). Galen will give the player the gun and they will exchange info (allowed one PM to each other). The player with the gun then may use it at anytime during the day cycle. (As a good Cylon, he will not use the sidearm, and yes he could accidentally pass it to a bad Cylon).

If found by D’Anna, he will then have the one time ability to kill during the day. He will count toward the Cylons side and have access to the forum. (If D'Anna finds him after Athena, she will just be told his role and he will not switch sides to the Cylons at this point).

-------------
Bad guys:
D’Anna-each night she may research the background of a living player to determine their role If she finds Galen Tyrol before Athena, he will switch to the Cylon side.

Aaron Doral – May at anytime during the day cycle use explosives to kill himself and a player of his choice but only if there is a least one lynch vote against him (votes by bad Cylons, including self, do not count).

Leoben - has a mysterious psychic connection to Starbuck but does not know her identity.
Boomer
May manipulate one player during the game (daytime)to accidentally reveal his role to everyone.

If we assume it was a slip or a plant, then Holman is one of these roles.

One carries direct risk (if he's Doral).
Leoben, Boomer or D'Anna would be an ideal lynch target, but none of them would be interested in drawing any attention.

He could be Athena or Anders as well - perhaps his plant wasn't as Galen but Anders?

Also, if memory serves, the scans initially indicated Athena scans first, meaning that his actions of Galen drawing attention could have been to lock in on the good side. Post-mod-clarification, if he IS galen, he should be now concerned with sticking with being good. Any scan at night will likely draw both scanners, and D'Anna will get it (there is an iocane option, but I don't have the time to type that all out).

Off to work now - it's going to be a long weekend for me and I may not be around much.

Still awaiting Theohalls explanation.

Lassr had already twice clarified the order in the OP was wrong and D'Anna scans first. Convenient of purge to ignore it considering he actually posted on one of the pages it was clarified earlier.

At least three folks want to keep a potential Galen alive. My question is why would anyone want to keep a potential Galen alive right now when D'Anna scans first?

Looking at bb2112, Remus West, purge, and Scoop (Scoop for talking yet not acting).

Still leaving the vote on Holman, because I believe the risk is too great, especially considering his supposed slip is very similar to what he just did recently.

You are a potential Galen just as much as Holman is. You have no proven role - unless you have insight to what Holman really is. Is he a candidate? Yes. Is he the right candidate for a Day 1 lynch mob? Not for me. Who knows, he may well be Athena and feel silly, or he could be D'Anna and feel stupid for giving him a bye. I'm not saving him, I'm not defending him. The fact is, you asked a question as to why, and I gave you a list of roles, three being good cylons that could make that slip-up.

I'm annoyed that CR is currently tru1cy-ing. This, to me, is either trying to fly low on the radar (much like RMC's occasional) but creating a racket by hitting the tree-tops.

purge, being evil, knew CR was human which allowed him to push this angle which way too many followed.

I did not write "I am not a Bad Cylon" with that actual capitalization. Does that look like someone making a "mistake" when they take the time to capitalize those specific words??

Wait, huh, and what?

Assuming you're serious: I was capitalizing "Bad Cylon" as the proper name of the wolf team in this game. (I am an English teacher. I do these things.)

Really? You are an English teacher who unnecessarily capitalizes adjectives? Proper English would be "bad Cylon."

Their team name is "Bad Cylons." An adjectives in a proper name is capitalized (e.g. "White Sox" not "white Sox," "Mighty Ducks" not "mighty Ducks").

Where did you go to school, cylon?

K, Holman, I don't know if you're trying to dance your way into a noose or not - your explanation was well put (and Theohall's "RIF" is on-par with his "normal" behaviour) - but now, reading this last comment, it sounds like you're giving us their team name with some sort of authority on the subject.

Just waiting for you to hang. But it likely won't happen since the bad guys are doing their best to keep you alive so they can gain a shooter. Too bad the rest of the pack is listening to the bad guys.

Two of those bad guys are likely Remus West and purge.

I'm not a bad guy, bad Guy or a Bad Guy. (Read that in Zangief's voice for flavor ).

I've not been convinced that Holmans "slip" is the real deal. I'm not much for appeasing the rants of Theohall either. That being said, I have no reason I should not vote for Holman. I'm just interested in poking holes in arguments that don't hold water. If we get down to the wire, a lynch and a miss is better than inaction.

On another note: Theo gettin' his Rage© on is neither a sign of guilt or innocence in my book. It's his modus operandi. I'm just now being reminded of it.

 /withdraw Theohall 
 


As for silents - looking back through my memory of WW games, there always seems to be several low-participation wolves, and some more ostentatious ones.

Is CR's absence, or Mr. Bubbles perfunctory participation a sign of guilt? I'm struggling with that.

let me throw this out there as well -

say we drop CR and he shows up human....we lose 1 day, team burning toast toasters is closer to victory...they've also most likely gained a shooter....and what does team good goodie -two shoes gain...nothing but a lot people saying "hey CR was quiet man, he deserved it". team good...shafted from day 1.

I'm willing to approach his silence, absolutely. It's something that will need to be dealt with if he doesnt pop up. I just dont think that juncture is now.

It's Wednesday. I hope everything is alright. CR *is* always entertaining.

Absolutely no offence, but MrB is just about as silent and not as 'rock star' a player, but there isn't a Call Out to lynch him.

Too late in the day to get it started but I have him listed as day 1 Dead Weight as well (along with RMC, Theohall, and purge). Of more unique note, making him interesting, is Qantaga, who isn't acting as dead weight and yet he's been almost as quiet silent.

"he's been almost as quiet silent." :S

Care to explain this?

And now he is questioning LM, who also proved to be good

Sorry guys, I was late to log in intially, and my personal/professional life is very high-demand at the moment (I've not had a day off work since Feb) so if you're expecting a chatty Cathy, that ain't happening. (this post notwithstanding)

Frankly I thought me keeping my mouth shut would help Remus not instantly hate me, or Unagi being disappointed in me for muddying the water (apparently I do that- a lot.) I'm most concerned with anyone, *ANYONE* who has any certainty in voting, and whether I believe their intentions to be in line with ours, or the wolves. Right now we have a Theohall with a hard-on to hang Holman, in the fear that he's a Good Cylon.

Frankly, that STILL puts him at a 1 in 3 chance of being Galen, and while yes he might be who Theo is accusing him of, he could also be someone else. We're stacking ifs like crazy, and then speaking in certainties. I'm thinking that might just be an act. Who knows, perhaps Galen has already been converted and this is simply a ploy to get us to all execute someone that the wolves know is either
a safe target to hit, and then we all think we're sitting safe from a day shot?

I was looking through the roles, and looking at Galen, he is (as was pointed out earlier) instructed to be on team Good unless otherwise scanned. Wait, let that sink in - there isn't a single role that has any interest in broadcasting itself at all, ever, except perhaps Cain ... I`ve never seen the secret requirements a role like that needs, so I`m in the dark on that.

So was this a slip because of Holmans perspective, or is it an overactive imagination and Theo's questionable understanding of capitalization? And if so, pointing out a "good cylon" as a candidate for elimination is ridiculous, so either you think he's bad, or you want him dead.

As an aside, here`s a learning aide re: capitol letters:
Theohall helped his uncle Jack off the horse.
Now make that a -j-

I'm never happy with day 1 - and I've often stood in the station waiting to see who bids what to get me to board. I think I've been on maybe one or two day1 lynch votes in the history of me playing. Call it dead weight, sure. I`ve been on a long hiatus from this, and we have new people in the mix - so jumping on a hysterical Theo-vote ain`t exactly a good idea in my books.

.....snip.........
Frankly I thought me keeping my mouth shut would help Remus not instantly hate me, or Unagi being disappointed in me for muddying the water (apparently I do that- a lot.)
.....snip......

why care what they think? What's so important about Unagi & Remus? You dont know if they are innocent, good golden crisp toasters, or bad to the bone black toast toasters....or do you? So I ask...why care about their opinion?

Because of Green Lantern, and Heimdall, etc. They have sway - they tend to be the `Rock Stars` and while that may not be a bad thing, veterans use their pull sometimes to lead us with malicious intent.

Why would you NOT care... so when you get to N-1 knowing the village is on the wrong path, you slough it off. Gotcha.

See there`s the whole `oh but we can see your vote train and decide who`s next`... the history of voting is evidence regardless of a fatal outcome, either by lynch or night-kill so that`s a load of bunk for people to hide behind. Anyone who maintains that should be self-voting at N-1 and prove their point - but they don`t.

Pardon my typing - sometimes my keyboard at work screws up and the question mark turns into É and stuff like quote marks and apostrophes look like `etc. Haven`t figured out why - might be an Opera, Putty Connection Mgr or Hummingbird thing. Annoying as all hell, and rather than opening charmap every time I make a question, I turn it into a statement.

As an aside, here`s a learning aide re: capitol letters:
Theohall helped his uncle Jack off the horse.
Now make that a -j-

When writing to your congressman, I don't think you should use that kind of language.

Did I do thatÉ Doh. Besides, capitol isn`t a word in Canada. It`s restricted to a few ornery US buildings. I vote that we rename them to capital buildings and be done with it.

I am too a lesser extent! I think that is better than worthless, or whatever it was prior to this label.

Useless. Which is what you presently are and have been for a day or two. Add that you haven't been around much and that's what you are. You just haven't completely useless like purge or chaosraven.

12 RMC ---------- Remus West --- --- --- --- ---

Wait, first I'm unhelpful, then I'm absent, now I'm useless?
At one point you had me pegged as Theohall.

Are you being deliberately scatterbrained?

Newcastle, you list Galen (Gallen to Unagi) as being neutral - yet it was pointed out ages ago that he's good and remains so unless scanned by Team Evil (everytime I see this I think of two different groups - the Pokemon Team Evil, and the villains from 8Bit Theater).

As Remus has put it there is no reason to believe he is either one of the three good cylons (Athena is cylon too, or weren't you paying attention?)

At this point, I'm tired of the debate. We're at less than 24 hours to deadline, and have no one to offer. If we fail to lynch, then we fail to even an ATTEMPT to kill a wolf.

If majority isn't met, will the highest candidate be selected for lynch, or is it a total miss?

As far as I'm concerned Theohall and LM have been making the most waves, though I suppose Scoop has been ... well, Scoop. I'll vote Holman if that's the group decision, but I don't know his play style so I've been taking his posts at face value.

Here he paints me in the same side as LM while mentioning Scoop, but basically giving Scoop a pass

What was the deadline again? Please include time zone!

Don't need *that* again.

So I`ve caught up on the thread.

Theohall....

Scoop can`t be good - I just can`t see it. I find it bewildering that the cylons would use a public reveal on someone with so much tension built up on him, and I`d like to thank them for that. We now have a proven.

Newcastle`s death is also wierd - I would have expected no night kill or at the very least, Scoop falling over dead. In fact, they must have found something out about Newcastle.

No CR means no lists. I don`t have very much time at all (just submitted 27.5hrs of O.T. today for the past two weeks, got more tonight and tomorrow. PC time is very limited esp. with spring break and an eight-year old. Not meta, just setting reasonable expectation.

I`m interested to hear how Remus is going to use the ambiguous nature of the lynches to determine alignment - as he said, Athena or D`Anna would both hang the same, and both show the same.

Finally admits to Scoop, yet is questioning Remus (now a known human) yet again

I believe it's known as "The Holman," "Holmanizing," or sometimes "Pulling a Holman."

Actually, how about not that last one?

Stop digging when you`re standing in a Holman.

So we`re hosed. Lynch scoop and find a dead cylon, not knowing if he was good or bad. Hinging a search with another character who passes off and shoots a gun to prove him is very difficult.

Unagi, I can understand your frustration in the mechanics - seems we`re in the dark even when we are successful in a selection. Killing isn`t a test - it`s a blind swing with only negative results.

So what do we do ... drop Scoop from the gallows to wander totally blind and be sure of a dead cylon (and nothing more), or let him act as a scanner (good or bad) and trust his responses for now, and start marking known vs. possible good? Perhaps testing his scan targets would be good to do.

Arguing to keep Scoop alive one more day[/i/

You know what would suck?

If CR was Cain, and needed to never show up on Day 1 to unlock her secret mojo.

And so?

And so my "harumph" remains as it ever will

1 BB2112 ---------- --- --- --- --- ---
3 Qantaga ---------- --- --- --- --- ---
6 theohall ---------- --- --- --- --- ---
9 purge ---------- --- --- --- --- ---
14 Mr. Bubbles ----- --- --- --- --- ---

If my vote put us over, I'd just do it, because "fuck it."

Yes, that is indeed the "sit back and let these guys kill eachother" group, isn't it? I think vorret fits in there too.

Seriously? You're putting theohall into the "sit back and let these guys kill each other" group?

I'm pretty sure Theohall wants to kill Holman, because the mod could be lying. What if he's a confused Galen? What then? HUH? HUH??!!

If we are doing this based off harumph then I want to lynch bb2112. At least then I get teh funny of his dying before me which is not likely to be the case otherwise.

Remus, you're the least likely to be lynched today, and I (astoundingly) think that's a good idea.

Here's why:

Lynching Scoop right now means we have a dead cylon, and while I've not drunk the kool-aid, I think that a well-reasoned person (goddamn it, I'm trying - try to keep up, Theo) would see that since we can't actually tell a dead good cylon from a dead bad cylon, we need to be able to get as much from our "seer" as possible so we can move forward tomorrow with some direction. Right now we've got a few guesses, but by no means do we have much to go on.

Were I to cast a vote against Remus, it would be tomorrow. It would seem we have two specials with no proof to show. If we get a no-kill tonight, we might be sitting pretty where both Vorret, and his protected can then be proven tomorrow. Trick is this:

if Vorret protects Scoop and scoop is evil, Vorret dies.
If Vorret protects Scoop and scoop is good - either a miss happens, or the wolves have gone after someone else. If they do that though, I'd think they'd go after Vorret directly to remove his protection.

If Vorret is spoofing, he also can cast a negative light on our "seer" tomorrow, should he be good. I don't want to explain that out today though - no sense in giving them any bright ideas. I expect that if one thought about it, that the implication is there.

Goes after Remus again while trying to keep Scoop and Vorret alive

Who's left.

7 tru1cy ---------- Unagi --- vorret --- vorret --- Unagi
9 purge ---------- --- --- ---
12 Unagi ---------- Scoop --- vorret --- ---
14 Mr. Bubbles ----- --- --- ---

Of course I bet you believe Unagi is 100% good, so you'll probably not bother with him.

Yeah, purge - I did indeed leave him off my list, and shouldn't have.

I'm not clear. He seems kinda human (he's playing it fairly well) - but in a lot of ways he is being a lot like Qantaga. Just kinda making statements and isn't really promoting any specific actions. I'd consider a vote on him.

I'm hurt - when I read your list you left me off - is it because I'm not panic'd and lashing out yet? I could change things up if you want, but I'm trying to actually be helpful by not splashing about like a Good/Neutral/Evil theohall.

Frankly, I'm bothered by how hard a read he is, though he has calmed down from yesterday. I'm all for testing him or Qantaga, but at this point we have two outed specials with no counter-claim.

How much more can be learned today, when we need to see how Vorret and Scoop manage tonight? I just can't believe that we've given the wolves two prime targets on the same day. Frankly, with no coroner we need to accept that we don't know what we don't know, and let those who can prove themselves do so.

Until then, we cast votes on the most likely.

Since Vorret isn't available due to a supposed protection tonight - I'd suggest that Vorret not reveal his protections or when they happened - otherwise he puts himself in the direct line with no hope of stopping an attack - tomorrow would be an ideal time for a reveal of those as he could "prove" targets he protected, should he be telling the truth of course.


Thinking out loud:

if Remus -eq GOOD ; Remus = HUMAN ; fi
if Remus -eq HUMAN ; Scoop = UNPROVEN ; fi

if Vorret -eq GOOD ; Vorret = HUMAN ; fi
if Vorret -eq HUMAN ; Protected_Targets = PROVEN_GOOD ; fi



Vorret needs to live today - his nighttime task can prove himself and anyone he's protected (assuming he protected anyone besides himself).

Protecting Scoop is tricky - if he's a wolf, Vorret dies. If he does, he could end up the target.
We haven't hit a wolf yet, so we have to assume that there is a marginal chance that Leoben already found Starbuck - and that Starbuck may be disabled.

Problem is, her power still can prove folks even if she's unable to protect. But, you'd think that the wolves would target Scoop if he's not evil, unless they're planning on contesting the seer role - there's no way to prove themselves. Starbuck is far more valuable to us than our "seer" - our seer can only prove herself through failure but even that isn't proof enough.

We could lynch Remus today and find out if Scoop is evil hiding a packmate, but Remus could also be human and the wolves could know that, so Remus being human doesn't tell us whether scoop is evil or not.

I figure we've got tomorrow's lynch targets wrapped up today, but no one to put up for today.

What's the vote count at?

Also, Vorret, do you have both options of self-protecting tonight or protecting scoop? Hint: The answer to both should be yes.

You guys have been busy this weekend. No small kids, or relatives moving a bike repair / sales shop over the weekend, I guess. I'll catch up tomorrow morning at work - sorry for the absence.

Heading to bed.

Shit..... I made a huge mistake.
I gambled and failed... To be honest, I thought the Cylon would think I protected LM and would kill the next proven ( Holman) so I protected him... guess I'm not as smartypants as I thought.

Yeah, I'm not buying it. LM was more important than a proven, or even you. I'm worried that they have a shooter - which means that if scoop was an evil cylon (and by LM's account he would have been spoofing Athena), they have 3-4 right now.

8. pr0ner killed night 0, Athena per Cain (LM)
12. Chaosraven hung day 1, human
1. Newcastle killed night 1
15. Unagi killed day 2, Cain (LM), human
3. Scoop20906 hung day 2, claimed Athena, cylon
14. Lord Mortis killed night 2, proven Cain

5. Holman - proven human by cylons
6. Vorret - claims Starbuck
10. Remus West - Scoop claimed he was human
2. BB2112
4. Qantaga
7. theohall
9. tru1cy
11. purge
13. RMC
16. redrun
17. Mr. Bubbles

As crazy as it sounds, I think Galen needs to out himself and here's why: Assuming Cain could tell that Pr0ner was Athena Galen has almost no chance of staying good.

Looking at the scan order:

Night Sequence
Leoben-Will you interrupt Starbuck
Starbuck-Who will you protect?
Starbuck-Who will you search?
D'Anna-Who will you scan?
Athena-Who will you scan?
Cylons-Who will you kill?
Leoben-Who will you scan?
Cain-Will you perform your hidden agenda?

Night 0 would allow Athena to scan one person before dying. If proner managed to find Galen it's a 1 in 16 shot (since he does not need to scan himself ) that means the gun would have been handed off at that time, no?

Lassr, is Galen forced to hand the gun off immediately if he is discovered by Athena first?

That means that he`s most likely evil, or if not will likely end the game (and be a giant swing for the wolves).

At this point, he already knows Galen is still unconverted, yet he is posting like he believes Galen is already converted. Intentional effort to confuse the rest of us.

Remus, me calling out for a Good/Neutral Galen is a math equation.

*IF* Galen is alive and good, he should step out, and here's why:

When I suggested that he do so, we knew that there were at least three cylons (trusting LM's comment here) - as there is no way a good cylon should EVER spoof Athena. So Scoop is clearly evil. If he wasn't D'Anna (which has a 75% chance of that), and Athena is dead with no counter claim to Scoop besides LM's Cain "scan" of pr0ner, we have a D'Anna running around.

If a good Galen is killed, it means we're -1, but have a dead cylon.
If a good Galen is scanned, it means we have -2, since HE CAN THEN SHOOT ONE OF US.

So it doesn't matter if they have 2 or 3 right now. Galen *might* survive as good. But he swings the game big time, and while Theo going after Holman as a "slip" for Galen was ridiculous, killing Galen at this point isn't a "miss". It means that they cannot be more than 2. And that's better than them being 3, with an early win leverage.

Please don't make me ask the mod if 4:3+shot from Galen = Wolf win. I feel stupid for even having to type that out.

... unless Galen was already converted. Hrmm. Checked the page one description and apparently he'd reveal himself if he shoots, so I can see him biding time until he can tip the scales.

I suppose we could get Remus to N-1 for a reveal - given his reticence I suspect him to be Galen, though if he's good then by doing that we let the dogs topple him. I wonder how that relates to Scoop <--> Remus. Care to chime in, and just pretend we got you to N-1 RM?

Best case scenario is we have a good-converted Galen - this would have required our "Athena" to have scanned him on night 0 before buying it at the hands of the wolves, and is a 1/16 chance if it even works. Should probably verify that...

Lassr - if Athena scans Galen on night 0, and is the target of attack, would Galen be converted to evil? Secondly, are there time of day restrictions to handing the gun off to another player (i.e. in the scenario above, would Galen have been able to hand the gun to the ill-fated Athena, or is the action restricted to the daytime only?)

The only reason we wouldn't want to lynch Galen is if he is converted, but the only way to prove he's good is to hand off the gun. The flaw in Remus's logic is (as I understand it) that he was going to use the gun to do our "will" and prove himself good. There's no reason a wolf couldn't do the same thing though.

Was that about right, Remus? That's how you intended to use it to prove someone?

And he still knows Galen is unconverted while posting otherwise

... unless Galen was already converted. Hrmm. Checked the page one description and apparently he'd reveal himself if he shoots, so I can see him biding time until he can tip the scales.

I suppose we could get Remus to N-1 for a reveal - given his reticence I suspect him to be Galen, though if he's good then by doing that we let the dogs topple him. I wonder how that relates to Scoop <--> Remus. Care to chime in, and just pretend we got you to N-1 RM?

Best case scenario is we have a good-converted Galen - this would have required our "Athena" to have scanned him on night 0 before buying it at the hands of the wolves, and is a 1/16 chance if it even works. Should probably verify that...

Lassr - if Athena scans Galen on night 0, and is the target of attack, would Galen be converted to before evil struck? Secondly, are there time of day restrictions to handing the gun off to another player (i.e. in the scenario above, would Galen have been able to hand the gun to the ill-fated Athena, or is the action restricted to the daytime only?)

The only reason we wouldn't want to lynch Galen is if he is converted, but the only way to prove he's good is to hand off the gun. The flaw in Remus's logic is (as I understand it) that he was going to use the gun to do our "will" and prove himself good. There's no reason a wolf couldn't do the same thing though.

Was that about right, Remus? That's how you intended to use it to prove someone?

Corrected that question - apparently working all day and night is having an effect on my use of language.

Consider being Galen night 0 - who better to give the gun to than Athena? Problem is, she then dies immediately, and he would have no way to prove himself otherwise. That's where the question came into play.

Anders is very useful. Anyone scanned is inherently good. If Anders wasn't scanned though, then he has no reason to step forward - and as was pointed out, he's only good not-the-next-day, but the one after that. IF Galen is unconverted, or unconvertible to evil, and remains good aligned, then that power is useful.

[ezmate]I won't be around much over the next few days, I think - I have a lot of hours of OT under my belt, and that was the tip of the iceberg. Meeting in a few hours to determine how much of my week/weekend is going to be screwed over by a bunch of project tasks. It seems to me they are trying to find the wrongest way possible to do anything.[/exmate]

RMC - get better soon.

I think that's a load of tail-chasing. It may be that they simply wanted to narrow the candidates down while they had no losses. Clearly Scoop was either D'Anna, Leoben or Boomer, and Vorret was clearly Doral. So they have two left - it may well be that we have two cylons who are useless in their powers - a spent public reveal and someone who could take down Starbuck.

Galen could, in fact, be safe.

Numerically:

1 in 16 that he is good from pr0ner's night 0 scan

IF that's the case, there is a 1 in ?? that he decided to hand that gun off to pr0ner immediately.

There is a (1 in 16) + (1 in 14) + (1 in 12) chance that D'Anna already converted Galen.

Conversely,

1 in 3 that Scoop was D'Anna which knocks off the 1 in 12.

IF that's the case, then there is a 33% chance that we don't need to kill Galen.

So there is a much higher chance that if someone steps forward waving a gun saying that Galen handed them it, it's an evil Galen spoofing and should be tested.

 Redrun 
 


We don't need to be down two - even if this risks an evil converted Galen shooting us.

Accuses redrun who was killed in the night. Gee, I wonder who killed redrun in the night?

So here's a hypothetical to help fuel discussion (and perhaps draw in those who are lurking instead of playing) ...

If we assume Mister H is a cylon and we hang him, we may have killed our only hope of finding bad-guys, no? While he clearly slipped up in that he's likely not human, by no means does that mean he's the shooter - he could be "special" save for Starbuck or Cain who should hang "human" AFAIK.

The lynch will show us that we're either down a human or a toaster but not whether we were successful in killing a bad guy.

It would seem to me that he's more likely on the wolves dinner plans should he survive the day. Seems to me we'd be doing them a favor, killing Holman. If he doesn't die tonight but is protected and no night kill happens, doesn't that mean Starbuck could eventually validate him?

This is moronic. Will explain later. Sacrifice our protector to let the wolves gain a shooter?????

Just got here, When do we get our explanation?

Explained this before. Order of operations. Were Starbuck to protect H, H actually was Galen, and Evil scanned him (evil scans first) - the team evil scan would convert Mr H before the protection, thus costing us Starbuck (he dies protecting an evil cylon) while gaining Evil a shooting Mr. H. None of it matters now, since it seems likely Newcastle protected Scoop and died for it. purge had read the order of operations in the OP (good scans before evil) which Lassr later stated was incorrect multiple times stating evil would scan before good well before purge put forward his plan. It stunk then, it still stinks now, and I would not be surprised if purge's early vote on redrun is purge trying to preserve his hide.

Actually, it's me throwing a vote in the direction I've suggested.

One you seemed to wholeheartedly believe in, DAY 1.

Funny, that.

Your guesses tend to be so off that I find it hard to be accidental, Theohall.

I'm referring to a vote against a suspected Galen - now that we have no reason to believe Athena is alive, and 2/3 chance that D'Anna is, we should take away her potential ability to convert Galen - assuming he isn't already there. I explained it several days ago, and rather than my typing s l o w e r & l o n g e r for your benefit, how about you connect some dots?

Redrun has since denied the role - but at the time, Remus (IIRC) had pointed out that was the most likely suspect.

At this point, I'm annoyed with you trying to muddy the waters, and am trying to decide if it's deliberate or not.

 /withdraw redrun 
 

And now I am supposedly trying to muddy the waters, yet he turned up being a cylon.

Seriously, you all are mudding the waters, but I think I will go  Mr. Bubbles 
 
see if this sparks some contribution









Unagi - you was right . leaving the silent barely participating is truly annoying

Yeah. How's THAT for irony?

Sorry for the radio silence, guys - I've been laid up with tremendous abdominal cramps - Haven't been able to sit comfortably for several days. I would like to apologize for my spotty activity - I signed up before I knew what work had in store for me (three major projects all pushing app level changes can get hairy, even while I'm training others to help out). It's no excuse though, I've failed to participate in a meaningful way. Thankfully, some of the craziness has passed.

RE: Redrun - I simply made a commitment to killing Galen based on an estimation - I've missed voting on every single day due to my other commitments, and so I wanted to make sure I at least contributed. As I see it, there is a negligible chance of him(Galen) being good, and he changes the game landscape drastically. Yes, we're hunting bad cylons, but if there's a shred of decency in Galen he'll step forward - as he counts for 2 dead cylons, with only a 25% chance that D'Anna is dead.

As for who we've hung, the only person we know, for certain is Vorret. Scoop is kind of a no-brainer with LM's info, but who knows, starbuck could have been CR. We have no confirmation of pretty much anything.

Some of you are stacking up ideas that don't hold their own weight, and building upon that. I'd like to see a wolf step forward and volunteer, but aside from that we have our Galen to worry about.

I believe that Theohall *is* Galen or a wolf, and here's why.

Day 1 he was pushing for Holman to die as Galen - knowing who he himself is {wolf, Galen} he was either trying to draw out the real Galen {TH=wolf} or he was under the impression that Galen was neutral in his interests (where the write-up, as was pointed out later, that he should behaving as good until such time that he's converted). Theohall may have instead been signaling to be called over rather than understanding his role.

He was sending up smoke signals - either to smoke someone out, or to signal a scan.

So my vote goes to  Theohall 
 
.

First of all Theo, your bark is worse than your bite.

I didn't want to share my latest absence - I may have mentioned not being at work on Friday - I ended up hospitalized over the weekend, and this game isn't my priority.

Just catching up with the pages - I'll post my comments shortly.

Unfortunately, I now have to say this and never get to use the abilities which could have shortened this event, because I will never be scanned now.

I am Anders and there were clues - bolded below. Went with Anders being a Lieutenant and many detectives in cop shows are lieutenants, so... Here are the clues. Do not let the evil cylons spoof Anders.

After being essentially internetless for the entire weekend and reading through this, I still have no clue as to who the heck is what. So, since everyone knows the saying has merit....

 Remus West 
 

SO i got 5 FIVE reasons why the Cylons killed proner...i'lll tease em out, because well...i can...


1 - Proner had team evil's number last game - So what does this mean? Could someone be on evil again who was on that team. If true this leads in certain directions

Or someone who was on team good last time is now on team evil and fears pr0ner's detective abilities.

Why are you waiting for a scan claim from me? I most certainly can not provide one.

It's my assumption this is the "lynch me if you will" or "lynch scoop/prove him one way or another" whatever it is you are talking about.

If I were going to contest him then lynching either one of us would prove nothing since we would both show Cylon one way or the other. No, this is not how I planned to give him proof. This is a very long shot plan though so I'm not really expecting success. It is the (well, was until they drugged Holman) only way I can think to gain some solid truth.

Okay, Remus West. Let's take the bolded sentence through reading comprehension. You did write this sentence, so it is your own words.

"If I" - I is first person indicating Remus West
"were going to contest him" - him is direct reference to Scoop given RW was replying to LM.
"either one of us" = this has to be Remus West and Scoop. There is not other "us" referenced.
"would prove nothing since we would both show Cylon one way or the other" - so you and Scoop would both show Cylon one way or the other.

I am glad you are so certain both you and Scoop will show Cylon. We can certainly count on Remus West to save us.

So thanks for forcing a good guy out.

NICE -

 Theohall 
 
.

If that pathetic spoof is what's going to let a frakkin' cylon out of the noose, you've earned the win. Were you desperately trying to draw a scan on yourself by TRYING TO KILL GALEN DAY 1??!! Were you really Anders, you'd realize that you wanted to draw them in - feigning hints on being GALEN or ATHENA.

Either you think us fools, or you have us fooled.

You are not Anders - you can't be.

I am him. My call out for Galen to step forth today was to remove the threat, realizing that by killing Galen it would likely cause the cylons to stop scanning.

I have no reason to plant evidence of my role - I have nothing to prove, or to lose. All I can do is reveal what I know, which is currently nothing since I've not been scanned - nor will I be now.

If I had something to say, I'd tell you, and then, when I died, it would be proven. Planting for the sake of creating some pathetic breadcrumb trail is simply giving himself inroads. I'm sure we could also find a path of three words in all the crap he's posted that would lead to other roles - and this was clearly the worst path he could take.

But whatever. Let the village decide.

So my bark was worse than my bite, yet he resorts to counter-claiming me? Which really was it? If anyone has read through all these posts, it is pretty darn clear purge was evil

[tru1cy]

Impressive work, Theohall. Waiting to see where the rest comes down on this

[theohall]

Before theo claimed Anders, my readthrough to that point led me to believe theo to be evil. However, both Remus and bb seemed willing to bet the game that theo was indeed Anders.

This is the part that bugs me in this. If only purge or I were evil, what about purge and his posts? It seems
a) you have not read through them
b) are ignoring them
c) have read through them and know it paints purge evil, yet won't share for some reason
or
d) you already knew purge was evil so are not even bothering with them.

Your read through painted me as evil prior to the Anders claim, yet did not paint purge that way when only one of us is likely evil? Very odd.

[theohall]

Oh. And purge only mentioning Qantaga once..... stands out big time.

[Qantaga]

I summarized theo and purge before they claimed Anders. You can find my summary of theo here and my summary of purge here.

Here is the post where I compare the two before casting the vote that lead to the theo/purge Anders claims.

That brings us to the events of their claims:

Things that point toward a good theo:

1. Remus and redrun both reached the conclusion that they were willing to bet the game on theo being good. Both of their instincts have been outstanding this game.
2. bb originally believe theo to be evil but, once theo and purge both claimed Anders, he voted for purge, and also seemed willing to bet the game on theo being good.
3. purge's response to theo's claim of Anders found here was angry in tone. While that could be attributed to a frustrated Anders, the most damning part is that he did not bother to come back to the thread for 11 and a half hours. I find that difficult to comprehend. If Anders knows that someone else is claiming his role falsely, he also knows that he has caught the third wolf red-handed. It seems to me that a real Anders would be front and center, trying his best to get the false Anders lynched. Purge did not do that.


Things that point to an evil theo:

1. His "clues" that he left is just bizarre. He says that we should believe him to be Anders because he left the following: "no clue," "detective," and "count" embedded within larger posts. That's it. That's the totality of his "clues." It's bizarre because there's no way a reasonable person could ever associate those supposed clues with proof of being Anders. Also, as I mentioned in in this post, Anders would be doing everything in his power to hide his identity, not leaving clues. A wolf would have more incentive to leave clues than Anders would.

His clues especially run counter to this:

For the record, Anders does NOT want to get scanned Day One by D'Anna. The best use of Anders is to lay low until later in the game and try to get D'Anna to scan him then. He then gets the one day to data dump all of D'Anna's scans and actually help the good guys. An early scan of Anders by D'Anna = a dead Anders early when all he can do is say D'Anna scanned him - but he would have no idea still who D'Anna is.

theo knowing the importance of Anders being scanned as late as possible by D'anna runs completely counter to his claim of leaving clues and makes those clues seem very suspect.

2. theo, knowing that RMC, along with purge, had been scarce at that time of the game, was advocating not waiting on any counterclaims:

ITo me, that is why waiting on counterclaims seems kind of ridiculous.

It seems to me a true Anders would want to wait for everyone to check in to see if he was counterclaimed. Knowing that Anders was still alive at that time, if everyone checked in and no one countered him, he would have been proven. I can't understand why Anders wouldn't want to wait for everyone to check in, especially since this was still 18 hours before the deadline.

3. Perhaps the biggest pointer toward theo being evil is his complete refusal to put himself in the mind of a good player. He expects us to take him at his word. However, if he was truly good, he should know that we cannot possibly just take him at his word. The only people who know the truth of theo's claim is theo and wolf #4. theo has consistently refused to put himself in the mind of a good player who does not have that knowledge. I thought he had gotten there with his "I'm a distraction" post, but now he claims that was being disingenuous and he doesn't really believe the truth of that.

To make matters worse, he has damned me as a wolf, but has failed to point out anything that I have said that runs counter to the interests of good. As a matter of fact, he has had several moments in the game where he attributes things to me that run directly counter to what I have posted.

Both theo and purge claimed Anders at N-1, exactly when a wolf would claim Anders.

Before they both claimed Anders, I had listed theo or purge as my leading candidates to be wolf #3. There is plenty to make them both look evil, especially in the events of the game before they claimed Anders.

theo does come out better than purge in the events surrounding the Anders' claims, but not enough to fall in the trusted category that he is demanding of us.

The question still comes down to the two paths I outlined earlier:

Path 1: Ignore theo and try to lynch the 1 wolf in 4 players {Qantaga, tru1cy, RMC, Mr Bubbles}. The risk to this path is that, if theo is evil and we miss, the game will be over today. This is the path to take if the majority believe that theo is good.

Path 2: Lynch theo. We then know that we have definitely killed Wolf #3, whether it was theo or purge. The last wolf will kill someone tonight. Then, tomorrow there is 1 wolf in 3 players to decide the game. This is the safer path that ensures we cannot lose today. This is the path to take if the majority think it possible that theo is evil.

[Qantaga]

Before theo claimed Anders, my readthrough to that point led me to believe theo to be evil. However, both Remus and bb seemed willing to bet the game that theo was indeed Anders.

This is the part that bugs me in this. If only purge or I were evil, what about purge and his posts? It seems
a) you have not read through them
b) are ignoring them
c) have read through them and know it paints purge evil, yet won't share for some reason
or
d) you already knew purge was evil so are not even bothering with them.

Your read through painted me as evil prior to the Anders claim, yet did not paint purge that way when only one of us is likely evil? Very odd.

Oh, good grief. Please stop theo.

Read my posts, please.

They are linked in the post directly above this one, but just in case you're not going to read that, either:

My analysis of purge that lead me to believe that either purge or you was the best place to find a wolf. (I was right on that, by the way, because it is fact that you or purge are wolf #3).

My post where I compare you and purge before voting.

You are outright lying when you say that I ignored purge (and his posts) as evil.

[theohall]

I summarized theo and purge before they claimed Anders. You can find my summary of theo here and my summary of purge here.

Here is the post where I compare the two before casting the vote that lead to the theo/purge Anders claims.

That brings us to the events of their claims:

Things that point toward a good theo:

1. Remus and redrun both reached the conclusion that they were willing to bet the game on theo being good. Both of their instincts have been outstanding this game.
2. bb originally believe theo to be evil but, once theo and purge both claimed Anders, he voted for purge, and also seemed willing to bet the game on theo being good.
3. purge's response to theo's claim of Anders found here was angry in tone. While that could be attributed to a frustrated Anders, the most damning part is that he did not bother to come back to the thread for 11 and a half hours. I find that difficult to comprehend. If Anders knows that someone else is claiming his role falsely, he also knows that he has caught the third wolf red-handed. It seems to me that a real Anders would be front and center, trying his best to get the false Anders lynched. Purge did not do that.


Things that point to an evil theo:

1. His "clues" that he left is just bizarre. He says that we should believe him to be Anders because he left the following: "no clue," "detective," and "count" embedded within larger posts. That's it. That's the totality of his "clues." It's bizarre because there's no way a reasonable person could ever associate those supposed clues with proof of being Anders. Also, as I mentioned in in this post, Anders would be doing everything in his power to hide his identity, not leaving clues. A wolf would have more incentive to leave clues than Anders would.

His clues especially run counter to this:

For the record, Anders does NOT want to get scanned Day One by D'Anna. The best use of Anders is to lay low until later in the game and try to get D'Anna to scan him then. He then gets the one day to data dump all of D'Anna's scans and actually help the good guys. An early scan of Anders by D'Anna = a dead Anders early when all he can do is say D'Anna scanned him - but he would have no idea still who D'Anna is.

theo knowing the importance of Anders being scanned as late as possible by D'anna runs completely counter to his claim of leaving clues and makes those clues seem very suspect.

2. theo, knowing that RMC, along with purge, had been scarce at that time of the game, was advocating not waiting on any counterclaims:

ITo me, that is why waiting on counterclaims seems kind of ridiculous.

It seems to me a true Anders would want to wait for everyone to check in to see if he was counterclaimed. Knowing that Anders was still alive at that time, if everyone checked in and no one countered him, he would have been proven. I can't understand why Anders wouldn't want to wait for everyone to check in, especially since this was still 18 hours before the deadline.

3. Perhaps the biggest pointer toward theo being evil is his complete refusal to put himself in the mind of a good player. He expects us to take him at his word. However, if he was truly good, he should know that we cannot possibly just take him at his word. The only people who know the truth of theo's claim is theo and wolf #4. theo has consistently refused to put himself in the mind of a good player who does not have that knowledge. I thought he had gotten there with his "I'm a distraction" post, but now he claims that was being disingenuous and he doesn't really believe the truth of that.

To make matters worse, he has damned me as a wolf, but has failed to point out anything that I have said that runs counter to the interests of good. As a matter of fact, he has had several moments in the game where he attributes things to me that run directly counter to what I have posted.

Both theo and purge claimed Anders at N-1, exactly when a wolf would claim Anders.

Before they both claimed Anders, I had listed theo or purge as my leading candidates to be wolf #3. There is plenty to make them both look evil, especially in the events of the game before they claimed Anders.

theo does come out better than purge in the events surrounding the Anders' claims, but not enough to fall in the trusted category that he is demanding of us.

The question still comes down to the two paths I outlined earlier:

Path 1: Ignore theo and try to lynch the 1 wolf in 4 players {Qantaga, tru1cy, RMC, Mr Bubbles}. The risk to this path is that, if theo is evil and we miss, the game will be over today. This is the path to take if the majority believe that theo is good.

Path 2: Lynch theo. We then know that we have definitely killed Wolf #3, whether it was theo or purge. The last wolf will kill someone tonight. Then, tomorrow there is 1 wolf in 3 players to decide the game. This is the safer path that ensures we cannot lose today. This is the path to take if the majority think it possible that theo is evil.

You must be joking. You cannot see how clearly purge was evil?? You are the last wolf. I have zero doubt now. Did you bother to even read through purge's posts and how is actions clearly paint him as evil based on what we now know? It seems to me you aren't even trying to look at it. I read through your link describing purge. Guess what you never did in that post? You never once stated whether you felt purge was evil or good. Why? Because he is your partner and you don't want us to test him.

Yet when you review my posts, you paint me as evil, and have consistently kept pointing to me as being likely evil since then. Again, why? Because you know I am a good guy and want to get me killed, in hopes you can convince one of the other two remaining on the last day to vote your way. Thanks for reinforcing my view of your evilness.

[theohall]

Show me where in this post you claim whether purge is evil or good. I don't see it. All I see is someone rehashing purge's posts without taking a side. So try again using your links.

purge:

Day 1:

- Early vote on theo.

- Not much for several pages until he pops in to "defend" Scoop after redrun puts a vote on Scoop (page 7).

- He spends the next several pages defending Holman, but then (apparently based on a capitalization argument about "bad cylon" between Holman and theo) reverses himself:

I've not been convinced that Holmans "slip" is the real deal. I'm not much for appeasing the rants of Theohall either. That being said, I have no reason I should not vote for Holman. I'm just interested in poking holes in arguments that don't hold water. If we get down to the wire, a lynch and a miss is better than inaction.

This is an interesting turn. Could this theoretically coincide with the time the wolves decide they don't think Holman is really Galen (see: Boomer revealing Holman Day 2). purge withdraws theo in the same post (page 11). Page 15 finds him going through the same material.

- Page 17, he waves a hand at theo and LM as making the most waves, says Scoop is just being Scoop (pre Scoop Athena claim), and repeats that he could vote Holman. He also asks Lassr a question about a passed deadline that appears (IMO) frivilous.

- He is then gone completely while Scoop claims Athena, we eventually lynch Chaos, and Holman is revealed Human by Boomer's power.

Day 2:

- He pops in once a page or so with general observational comments for the next portion of the game.

- Page 30, he comes in with an in-depth post, saying that he can't read theo, but that he would be glad to test theo or me.

- He's then gone completely through LM's killing Unagi, LM's being revealed Cain, and LM stating that pr0ner was Athena. He makes a quick ez-mate-ish pop in during Night 2.

Day 3:

- purge begins Day 3 (page 34) saying that Galen should out himself. A good idea for a Galen who is unconverted and wants to remain on the side of Good.

- In that same post, though, purge starts his (IMO) silly series of questions to Lassr about when/if/how Galen could pass the gun to Athena or otherwise. The answers to his mod questions were so clearly spelled out in the rules that it seemed more like posturing to me and not actual inquiries. He keeps that going and still brings up the question of whether Galen passed the gun to pr0ner (an impossibility) on Night 0.

- He votes redrun based apparently on a Remus' comment about redrun's vote/pulled vote on Holman Day 1.

- He and theo begin debating that particular vote, then purge makes an interesting comment about why he voted on redrun:

Actually, it's me throwing a vote in the direction I've suggested.

One you seemed to wholeheartedly believe in, DAY 1.

Funny, that.

So, purge jumps in with both feet believing redrun to be Galen based solely on:

I'm referring to a vote against a suspected Galen - now that we have no reason to believe Athena is alive, and 2/3 chance that D'Anna is, we should take away her potential ability to convert Galen - assuming he isn't already there. I explained it several days ago, and rather than my typing s l o w e r & l o n g e r for your benefit, how about you connect some dots?

Redrun has since denied the role - but at the time, Remus (IIRC) had pointed out that was the most likely suspect.

He offers no supporting reasoning of his own as to why he thought redrun was Galen (when, as theo points out, if anything Remus' comment on redrun would fit evilCylonredrun, not Galenredrun). In this same post, purge withdraws redrun.

[theohall]

Q, you do realize re-reading purge's posts with what we now know does matter, right? It seems like you don't want to use what we now know to re-evaluate purge. Why?

[Qantaga]

Show me where in this post you claim whether purge is evil or good. I don't see it. All I see is someone rehashing purge's posts without taking a side. So try again using your links.

Do you honestly see my summary of purge as indicating anything other than suspicion?

How about this:

Proven is too strong. I do think I am in a position that should garner more trust than anyone else currently alive.

If you are who you say, what do you believe most likely?

- purge is evil.
- theohall is evil.
- both are evil.
- Scoop named 6 innocents in his threat list.

This was before I even analyzed you. This was based on Remus' find that Scoop had listed 6 names (Homan, Unagi, Remus, purge, Newcastle, theohall). At that time, Holman, Unagi, and Newcastle were dead and proven good. We now know Remus is good, too. Remus' contention was that Scoop would not make a list without at least one evil player on it. As it turns out, it was true. You or purge are evil. I also believed that Remus had made a good find and that either you or purge were likely the best evil candidates.

This is before I even did my summaries on you and purge.

If you read through that day, it is very clear that my top two suspects were narrowed down to either you or purge. So, you trying to use revisionist history to say I was ignoring purge is patently false. And I don't understand why a good player would do that.

[Qantaga]

Q, you do realize re-reading purge's posts with what we now know does matter, right? It seems like you don't want to use what we now know to re-evaluate purge. Why?

theo, I'm growing weary of this.

Did you miss this?:

theo does come out better than purge in the events surrounding the Anders' claims, but not enough to fall in the trusted category that he is demanding of us.

[Qantaga]

We've reached an impasse.

I am having horrific flashbacks of Bond II where I was trying my best, but Unagi latched on to me as evil and we lost because of it.

Now, theo has latched on to me. Sadly, It is far less likely for theo to let go than it would have been for Unagi to let go.

theo has become an impediment who stands in the way of good winning the game.

There are only two possibilities. theo is either evil or good, but we have no way of knowing definitively which is true. This is something that theo will not acknowledge for some unknown reason.

Scenario 1:

theo is evil.

If so then, of course,we need to lynch him.

Scenario 2:

theo is good.

This is where the real problem comes in.

Even if theo is good, he will lose the game for us, unless we can hit the one wolf in {tru1cy, RMC, or Mr Bubbles} today.

Here's why:

- If you lynch me, I will come back Human. If theo is evil, the game will be over. If he is good, there is no way the final wolf will kill him tonight and I know for a fact that his instincts are way off this game (Holman, Remus, and now me).

- If we lynch {tru1cy, RMC, or Mr Bubbles} and we miss, then the remaining wolf will take theo and I into the final day with him. theo will then vote for me and the last wolf will join theo and evil wins.

I was hoping to garner discussion today.

theo has thwarted that at every turn.

I have no more choice in the matter because I know theo is wrong about me (either deliberately as a wolf or misguided as Anders) and his stubborness in the matter will lose the game for good.

I'll leave it to tru1cy, RMC, and Mr Bubbles to decide. Hopefully, the two good ones in that group will make a good decision.

 theohall 
 

[theohall]

Q, you do realize re-reading purge's posts with what we now know does matter, right? It seems like you don't want to use what we now know to re-evaluate purge. Why?

theo, I'm growing weary of this.

Did you miss this?:

theo does come out better than purge in the events surrounding the Anders' claims, but not enough to fall in the trusted category that he is demanding of us.

Go beyond just the Anders claim. How does purge's body of work as a whole look based on what we now know? This is what I am asking you to review. He comes out as clearly evil based on all of his posts.

purge consistently questioned Remus West, challenged Unagi, tried to keep Scoop and Vorret alive until forced, and even then tried to keep Scoop alive one more time. Accused redrun. Everything he did was counter to now known humans while being supportive of now known cylons. So - if only he or I were evil cylons, which one of us really was evil. That is the question I am asking you to answer. Do you believe purge was evil, yes or no? Not this vague one side looks better, but I still doubt them crap. You have been doubting me and calling me evil for awhile now. I understand why, evil cylon.

I am going to leave it up to the other three do decide, but my mind is made up based on your unwillingness to actually state whether you believe purge was good or evil. That's the crux of where we are right now. If purge was evil, then I am good. If purge was good, then I am evil.

If purge was evil, it is time to follow path 1 and take two shots at the evil cylon vice wasting one on a good guy. But - if the others believe I must go, so be it. I won't argue with them. The only one I am arguing with is you due to the wishy-washy nature of your view on purge. Heck, you wanted to kill me before purge in the first place. Only reason you did not was my Anders claim. (got to protect yourself, eh) It's also of note to me you did not vote for purge after my Anders claim when previously you supposedly believed one of the two of us to be evil - even with less than 1 hour remaining to the deadline. You just played the CYA game from my claim onwards.

RMC, Mr Bubbles, tru1cy - please take the time to read through - especially purge's stuff - then seriously look at what Q is saying. His paths are based on the possibility of two evils remaining. Well - if purge was evil, there is only one evil remaining based on what Q claims. So - should we take two shots at the last guy - or just one while killing me off?

I'm done talking.

[theohall]

We've reached an impasse.

I am having horrific flashbacks of Bond II where I was trying my best, but Unagi latched on to me as evil and we lost because of it.

Now, theo has latched on to me. Sadly, It is far less likely for theo to let go than it would have been for Unagi to let go.

theo has become an impediment who stands in the way of good winning the game.

There are only two possibilities. theo is either evil or good, but we have no way of knowing definitively which is true. This is something that theo will not acknowledge for some unknown reason.

Scenario 1:

theo is evil.

If so then, of course,we need to lynch him.

Scenario 2:

theo is good.

This is where the real problem comes in.

Even if theo is good, he will lose the game for us, unless we can hit the one wolf in {tru1cy, RMC, or Mr Bubbles} today.

Here's why:

- If you lynch me, I will come back Human. If theo is evil, the game will be over. If he is good, there is no way the final wolf will kill him tonight and I know for a fact that his instincts are way off this game (Holman, Remus, and now me).

- If we lynch {tru1cy, RMC, or Mr Bubbles} and we miss, then the remaining wolf will take theo and I into the final day with him. theo will then vote for me and the last wolf will join theo and evil wins.

I was hoping to garner discussion today.

theo has thwarted that at every turn.

I have no more choice in the matter because I know theo is wrong about me (either deliberately as a wolf or misguided as Anders) and his stubborness in the matter will lose the game for good.

I'll leave it to tru1cy, RMC, and Mr Bubbles to decide. Hopefully, the two good ones in that group will make a good decision.

 theohall 
 

Still no definitive claim on what he believed purge to be.

[RMC]

Theo, I still think you are evil. You are just doing an outstanding job of confusing the issue.

I will place my vote on Theo, unless someone else gives me a reason not to.

Mr. Bubbles said he would talk tonight, so I will give him tonight to address any of his concerns.

[theohall]

Theo, I still think you are evil. You are just doing an outstanding job of confusing the issue.

I will place my vote on Theo, unless someone else gives me a reason not to.

Mr. Bubbles said he would talk tonight, so I will give him tonight to address any of his concerns.

Whether or not purge was evil is all I want to know from everyone else. Because that decision should decide the best course of action.

[tru1cy]

Still waiting on insight from Bubbles, but I think Lassr is close to putting us on a deadline.

[RMC]

Well with no input from Mr. Bubbles, and I am not one to criticize this game at all, I am voting for Theo.

[Lassr]

1508

"Storms getting closer." Qantaga states as he looks at his Isgrimnur Handheld.
"Can you let go of your electronic device for even a minute. I think you are in love with it which is probably true since you are a frakking Cylon!" Theohall screams.
"I'm not a toaster!"
"Oh, I think you are! You don't seem to be giving it your all when trying to find the Cylons. You are missing so many possible avenues."
Qantaga stares at Theohall with his mouth open. "Are you serious? Have you not been taking notes? I think I've covered just about everything! It's getting pretty obvious what you are trying to do to me. You are the frakking toaster!"
"I know I am a Cylon but I'm trying to help you...I'm sorry, trying to help the humans!"

RMC and tru1cy watches with fascination as they snack on some nuts. RMC turns to Mr. Bubbles, "What do you think about these two?" He notices Mr Bubbles is intently reading his notes and has earphones on so he can't hear the commotion.

Tru1cy looks off to the north and notices the darkening skies. Time was running out.

[tru1cy]

 Theohall 
 

[Lassr]

Day 5
1 Qantaga ---------- theohall ---
2 theohall ---------- Qantaga ---
3 tru1cy ---------- theohall ---
4 RMC ---------- ---
5 Mr. Bubbles ---------- ---
.
Qantaga -1 ----- theohall
theohall -2 ----- tru1cy -- Qantaga


Majority = 3
Deadline is: Deadline coming soon

pr0ner -------- pricked
Chaosraven -------- de-furred
Newcastle -------- bashed
Unagi ------- Cained
Scoop ------- Scooped
LordMortis ------ iced
Holman ------- blown
vorret ------- assploded
Purge ------ toast
redrun ----- red ran
BB2112 ------ fasttracked
Remus West ----- subtracted

[tru1cy]

You missed Qantaga's vote on Theohall.

[Lassr]

You missed Qantaga's vote on Theohall.

Fixed. Got in too big of a hurry...I had to pee.

[theohall]

Tomorrow, when I am dead, I strongly suggest the two remaining good guys look through the game and notice the almost complete lack of interaction publicly between purge and Qantaga. Purge didn't respond to Qantaga's posts, while consistently replied to mine. Qantaga is the last wolf. The lack of public interaction is conspicuous.