Lynching Liaisons - The End

[theohall]

Last game, Chaosraven was silent and the bad guys led us into lynching him. This game, Grundbegriff is completely silent and he is getting a pass. My sense is wolves want to kill Newcastle, because they think they have seen something in his poetry. Feel free to keep following the wolf train on a participating player.

[RMC]

Last game, Chaosraven was silent and the bad guys led us into lynching him. This game, Grundbegriff is completely silent and he is getting a pass. My sense is wolves want to kill Newcastle, because they think they have seen something in his poetry. Feel free to keep following the wolf train on a participating player.

I am always of the mind that the silents are the best to kill, but maybe not so much on day one after last game. I know I was surprised after I got back from my hospital stay I was even still in the game. But I don't think I will vote Grund right now, and Newcastle is just being himself.

So while I have nothing to add or accuse anyone, I say Grund and Newcastle should not be voted off today.

[tru1cy]

Last game, Chaosraven was silent and the bad guys led us into lynching him. This game, Grundbegriff is completely silent and he is getting a pass. My sense is wolves want to kill Newcastle, because they think they have seen something in his poetry. Feel free to keep following the wolf train on a participating player.

Sheesh, I hate having to agree with Theohall, but Grund's absence should be addressed now instead of later.

[RMC]

Last game, Chaosraven was silent and the bad guys led us into lynching him. This game, Grundbegriff is completely silent and he is getting a pass. My sense is wolves want to kill Newcastle, because they think they have seen something in his poetry. Feel free to keep following the wolf train on a participating player.

Sheesh, I hate having to agree with Theohall, but Grund's absence should be addressed now instead of later.

But Grund is an awesome player, so shouldn't we give him a day to get back into the groove?

I can think of other players that are a liability for being silent the entire game, Ala myself last game. I had issues but still there should be other people to go after. Let me suggest some after I reread and check to see who is laying low. I don't think Newcastle is a good target either currently.

[Vorret]

Vorret, would you vote for Newcastle?

Not right now.
I'm going to stick to my idea (for now) that Holman was killed because he's new to this game and we have wolves that have not played with him yet hence my vote.

[RMC]

Here is the list of everyone and just the 'active' vs 'not active'. I just did a quick glance since Holman's death to see who has posted and who has not. Grund did not have a post, or I missed it if he did. Everyone else has posted a few times. But they seem to jump in post a little bit then jump back out. BB has been more active lately, so he could go either way. Also, this list does not really reflect wolf or non-wolf, just overall who is posting. So is it helpful? Most likely not, but it ensures everyone remembers who is in the game. Q and El Guapo jumped in and then back out, and I think Triggercut did as well. But hey it is day one, so all this is kinda normal.


Active:

Lassr
Vorret
tru1cy
RMC
Purge
Newcastle
pr0ner
theohall
redrun
triggercut
Bakhtosh
Lagom Lite
Unagi


Little posting, or when posting when poked:
Grundbegriff
Remus West
Qantaga
Chaosraven
LordMortis
El Guapo
Scoop20906
bb2112 - Kinda, but has posted in last 2 pages..

Deader List:
Holman

[LordMortis]

Last game, Chaosraven was silent and the bad guys led us into lynching him. This game, Grundbegriff is completely silent and he is getting a pass. My sense is wolves want to kill Newcastle, because they think they have seen something in his poetry. Feel free to keep following the wolf train on a participating player.

I don't think the bad guys led us to lynching him. Irrespective, I don't think pointing to the last game is the reason to lynch or not lynch those who stand back. Standing back is the reason to lynch those who stand back. OTOH, if you wanted to look at track records for later review I do find people's evolving positions on participation interesting.

No votes - Qantaga, Purge, Grundbegriff, Newcastle, Chaosraven, triggercut

- Newcastle voting after last tally, which I don't trust, quite the opposite of Theohall... in pretty much all of his conclusions.

Really the only reason I'd give these players a pass five days into the decision making process is if one or more of them are masons.

And so my vote can go for anyone of these suspects for now, so why not start at the beginning.

 withdraw bb2112
accuse Qantaga 
 

[stessier]

Day 1 Vote Count

Spoiler:

• Scoop acc Qantaga (1)
  Bakhtosh acc Newcastle (1)
  bb2112 acc LordMortis (1)
• tru1cy acc Grundbegriff (1)
• Lassr acc redrun (1)
  theohall acc Chaosraven (1)
  LordMortis acc bb2112 (1)
  Lagom Lite acc Chaosraven (2)
• Remus West acc Newcastle (2)
  Bakhtosh wd Newcastle (1)
• Bakhtosh acc RMC (1)
• Vorret acc Grundbegriff (2)
• redrun acc Lassr (1)
• El Guapo acc Newcastle (2)
• RMC acc El Guapo (1)
  Lagom Lite wd Chaosraven (1)
  Lagom LIte acc Scoop (1)
• Unagi acc pr0ner (1)
• pr0ner acc Newcastle (3)
  bb2112 wd LordMortis (0)
  bb2112 acc Qantaga (2)
  Scoop wd Qantaga (1)
• Scoop acc Newcastle (4)
  theohall wd Chaosraven (0)
• theohall acc Grundbegriff (3)
  bb2112 wd Qantaga (0)
• bb2112 acc Newcastle (5)
• Newcastle acc Grundbegriff (4)
  Lagom LIte wd Scoop (0)
• Lagom Lite acc Grundbegriff (5)
  LordMortis wd bb2112 (0)
• LordMortis acc Qantaga (1)

Votes required for lynch - 11

Against Newcastle (5) - Remus, El Guapo, pr0ner, Scoop, bb2112
Against Grundbegriff (5) - tru1cy, Vorret, theohall, Newcastle, Lagom Lite
Against Qantaga (1) - LordMortis
Against redrun (1) - Lassr
Against RMC (1) - Bakhtosh
Against Lassr (1) - redrun
Against El Guapo (1) - RMC
Against pr0ner (1) - Unagi


No votes - Qantaga, Purge, Grundbegriff, Chaosraven, triggercut

There are 17 villagers alive. The deadline for the lynch vote is June 6th at 9pm Eastern time.

[LordMortis]

So, as best I can tell - we're sure of six lynches, and could have as many as nine.

Why does the grammar used here sound so wolfy to me? I know these things mean nothing and I know what redrun means and I know the redrun usually sits down and does this break down but the diction feels creepy.

[pr0ner]

Last game, Chaosraven was silent and the bad guys led us into lynching him. This game, Grundbegriff is completely silent and he is getting a pass. My sense is wolves want to kill Newcastle, because they think they have seen something in his poetry. Feel free to keep following the wolf train on a participating player.

You consider what Newcastle is doing participation?

[RMC]

Last game, Chaosraven was silent and the bad guys led us into lynching him. This game, Grundbegriff is completely silent and he is getting a pass. My sense is wolves want to kill Newcastle, because they think they have seen something in his poetry. Feel free to keep following the wolf train on a participating player.

You consider what Newcastle is doing participation?

He is participating and has placed a vote. I wish he would explain his vote, but it's day one. Who votes for anyone for any reason on day one really, unless someone slips and says something bizarre.

So in comparison to others, I would say yes he is participating. Not that this means he is not a wolf, just that he is active.

[Remus West]

Grund is being Grund.

[theohall]

Grund is being Grund.

So pass for non-participation from you. Check.

[theohall]

Last game, Chaosraven was silent and the bad guys led us into lynching him. This game, Grundbegriff is completely silent and he is getting a pass. My sense is wolves want to kill Newcastle, because they think they have seen something in his poetry. Feel free to keep following the wolf train on a participating player.

You consider what Newcastle is doing participation?

Actively posting in the game and he is saying stuff in his poetry is participating. You don't count that as participating. Check.

[Remus West]

Grund is being Grund.

So pass for non-participation from you. Check.

Not in the slightest. Merely an observation that he has thus far held to his traditional form.
Just as with Newcastle it only means anything (and the votes to lynch/lack of votes only mean anything) once we know where we stand with him - that is when he is proven or dead.

[redrun]

Vorret, would you vote for Newcastle?

Not right now.
I'm going to stick to my idea (for now) that Holman was killed because he's new to this game and we have wolves that have not played with him yet hence my vote.

For all the possible reasons I come up with for Holman, this is not one of them.

IMO - the wolves should try on night one to pick off a player who is known to be good at spotting wolves. Two examples: when I first started playing here at OO it seemed to me that Lassr had two modes - running the game or dying the first night as a player. After last game it would not have surprised me to see Unagi die night one.

Other side of the coin - if the wolves are expected to kill someone and they do not, it puts suspicion on the player, thus increasing the chance of the village taking care of the problem for the wolves. In a target rich enviorment, I can see a weak possibility of this.

Why Holman? I don't know, I don't have any great theories as to why.

[purge]

Grund is being Grund.

That's an indictment if I ever heard one.

Poking silents is one thing, but CR's death last game (were I a villager then) would have bothered me greatly.

Maybe he has something to hide - that seems to be a dangerous thing to draw onto yourself - if he's special, then the wolves will be looking to him. If he's a wolf, well... he's being talked about.

Should be pointed out that Theo is pushing for him. This may be key information later.

[Unagi]

So, join me on the pr0ner vote and see if I still got it.

With the Cabal in this game, I think it's likely that a few Cabal members 'smell' like wolves. That kinda tosses a wrench into things with early analysis of players. Coordination but not being seen as 'together', making knowingly false accustations and see how people react to that, etc. - these are all things the Cabal is likely doing right now, and it's all things the wolves are likely doing as well.

So, yeah - I'm not sure if I am sensing Wovles or Cabal when I feel I sense something and I'm not really sure what to share.

I was thinking about this whole Day 1 thing (and back to the CR votes from last game, for instance). Reasons not to vote a player off on Day 1 should mostly be because they may actually contribute positively, eventually. I think we all feel that Grund is capable of that, but I personally am rubbed wrong by the whole feeling that he is special and he is allowed to blow off Day 1. He could simply post on Day 1 and avoid that, but he has (recent history) tended to seem to thumb his nose at that mundane expectation. That very fact tends to make him look 'good', in that an evil Grund would rather help his wolf team by not being lynched on Day 1, so he would simply post... but - would that then make him look like that's WHY he is suddenly posting on Day 1. So, bleh - I am not sure what to do about it. Frankly, I think "not playing/posting", even as (especially as?) a Tactic is CANCER to these games. I'm ready to cut. That being said, Grund is a very large part of (historically) what made these games fun, and it really bums me out.

Newcastle. He could easily do the whole 'Look at me, I am posting poems' as a wolf - look back to any game where he was a wolf. He isn't a "hider". He plays it. Period.

So, personally I suggested pr0ner, because he is normally a pretty quiet player and will likely remain that way... and what's this? now he's flying the "you call that participation?" flag. That was pretty ironic. But I'm happy to hear/read it.


Not sure really what to do at this point. I wish our trains were on other players, to be honest.

OK, here's an idea....

Does anyone want to end the game with  Theohall 
 
as either the last wolf or their only human partner left to fend off the wolves?

[LordMortis]

Poking silents is one thing, but CR's death last game (were I a villager then) would have bothered me greatly.

It did bother a lot of villagers and I don't get why (other than he wasn't a cylon) If you are not playing you are a problem. Poking the silents is not an objective for me. Removing absent players is. It's less of a necessity in this game as there measures in place to make it more difficult for a wolf to hide in absenteeism and to make consensus easier to reach in spite of player absenteeism but I think it's still the generally the right play. Note that it also bothers a lot of villagers to lynch the Seer when the seers back is against the wall and I don't get that either.

And beyond it making sense to me kill the absent, my preference is to keep a game moving and absent players prevent that from happening.

[Unagi]

So, join me on the pr0ner vote and see if I still got it.

(that was in reply to redrun, but clearly my post went in another direction anyhow)

[LordMortis]

Frankly, I think "not playing/posting", even as (especially as?) a Tactic is CANCER to these games. I'm ready to cut.

A thousand times this.

[Lassr]

Does anyone want to end the game with  Theohall 
 
as either the last wolf or their only human partner left to fend off the wolves?

I was in that exact position a few years ago...it did not go well then either.

[theohall]

Grund is being Grund.

That's an indictment if I ever heard one.

Poking silents is one thing, but CR's death last game (were I a villager then) would have bothered me greatly.

Maybe he has something to hide - that seems to be a dangerous thing to draw onto yourself - if he's special, then the wolves will be looking to him. If he's a wolf, well... he's being talked about.

Should be pointed out that Theo is pushing for him. This may be key information later.

I am just trying to get silents to participate. Check my first vote and when it was withdrawn. Many agreed being silent in a large game is bad and the silent should be lynched, as happened to Chaosraven. I don't subscribe to this theory, but it is interesting seeing those who pushed it last game ignoring it now. Yes, there is info to be gleaned from this. When Grundbegriff actually posts I will withdraw my vote.

[Qantaga]

I was thinking about this whole Day 1 thing (and back to the CR votes from last game, for instance). Reasons not to vote a player off on Day 1 should mostly be because they may actually contribute positively, eventually. I think we all feel that Grund is capable of that, but I personally am rubbed wrong by the whole feeling that he is special and he is allowed to blow off Day 1. He could simply post on Day 1 and avoid that, but he has (recent history) tended to seem to thumb his nose at that mundane expectation. That very fact tends to make him look 'good', in that an evil Grund would rather help his wolf team by not being lynched on Day 1, so he would simply post... but - would that then make him look like that's WHY he is suddenly posting on Day 1. So, bleh - I am not sure what to do about it. Frankly, I think "not playing/posting", even as (especially as?) a Tactic is CANCER to these games. I'm ready to cut. That being said, Grund is a very large part of (historically) what made these games fun, and it really bums me out.

You have correctly identified the problem. I've seen Grund ignore Day 1 when he's villager, good special, and wolf. So, there's nothing to read into his silence, other than standard Grund procedure. I'm with you that it bums me out because he could add a lot in Day 1 observations, especially just in his ability to elicit strong reactions.

I do think the Chaos vote was very different last game, in that Chaos showed up early with an early "wolf forum" persona, then vanished for 11 days, thus something that was totally out of character for Chaos. It made me, for one (erroneously, of course), believe that he had taken a deliberately evil tact.

I want Grund to play, so I therefore don't want to vote for him on Day 1. Especially, given that voting him off for being silent on Day 1 would do nothing to change his strategy in future games. As a matter of fact, it might even entrench him further. I do with he would choose to participate on Day 1.

[Qantaga]

Really the only reason I'd give these players a pass five days into the decision making process is if one or more of them are masons.

You're playing it a bit fast and loose with the "five day" pass.

The day wasn't released until Friday night. So, of those five days, two were weekend days (generally considered to be equivalent to one week day) and the fifth day is still morning. Realistically, we're about three days in.

I understand why you want people to vote quickly. I, however, think that there's value in observation before casting a random vote. (I've even had a bit of luck in that regard on previous Day 1s).

I took a deserved hit last game for being indecisive (although, I did have a need to try to stir up data among several players) and I have promised to be more decisive this game. I still reserve the right to consider my vote first, though.

[Remus West]

Grund is being Grund.

That's an indictment if I ever heard one.

Poking silents is one thing, but CR's death last game (were I a villager then) would have bothered me greatly.

Maybe he has something to hide - that seems to be a dangerous thing to draw onto yourself - if he's special, then the wolves will be looking to him. If he's a wolf, well... he's being talked about.

Should be pointed out that Theo is pushing for him. This may be key information later.

I am just trying to get silents to participate. Check my first vote and when it was withdrawn. Many agreed being silent in a large game is bad and the silent should be lynched, as happened to Chaosraven. I don't subscribe to this theory, but it is interesting seeing those who pushed it last game ignoring it now. Yes, there is info to be gleaned from this. When Grundbegriff actually posts I will withdraw my vote.

Chaosraven was lynched as much or more because our backs were against the wall with regard to the deadline than for being silent. He became the best of a bad group of choices given the situation.
Also, since when are you flexible?

[Newcastle]

seer scanned
holman longevity
farting bird
?

[Unagi]

I am just trying to get silents to participate. Check my first vote and when it was withdrawn. Many agreed being silent in a large game is bad and the silent should be lynched, as happened to Chaosraven. I don't subscribe to this theory

Wait, you don't subscribe to the theory, so why are you putting energy behind trying to get silents to participate? That doesn't make any sense. It's like you want to distance yourself from the theory, but you are willing to make it your entire 'day 1' play?

I don't subscribe to this theory , but it is interesting seeing those who pushed it last game ignoring it now.

Since I would find that interesting too, I'd love for you to tell me the names of the players that are doing that. I find this interesting because I know I was strongly against the CR lynch last game, and yet I don't really have a strong recollection for who else did, and it sounds like you've either reviewed that old game for that list of players, or you have a much better memory than I do. Or you made this up sorta.

[Remus West]

Knock it off, Unagi. It isn't funny two games in a row.

[LordMortis]

You're playing it a bit fast and loose with the "five day" pass.

I'm not married to the idea that anyone is wholly absent at this point but I do believe we are far enough in to the sound off portion of the day that things should start happening. The weekend happened. Monday happened. Tuesday happened.

[Qantaga]

Newcastle. He could easily do the whole 'Look at me, I am posting poems' as a wolf - look back to any game where he was a wolf. He isn't a "hider". He plays it. Period.

Newcastle does like to choose an off-kilter style and role-play it to the hilt. I'm willing to allow him his eccentrities, but only for today.

Case in point:

seer scanned
holman longevity
farting bird
?

What exactly does this mean?

Can anyone interpret this for me, since it's doubtful he will.

So, I appreciate his playing the game, but he needs to give us (increasingly more) prose as the game continues, or my vote will swing his way.

[Unagi]

seer scanned
holman longevity
farting bird
?

What exactly does this mean?

I think Newcastle is chiming in on the whole "Why Holman?" question here. I think.

holman longevity.... well, no - Holman died, so he didn't have any 'longevity'.

seer scanned... Aha, I think Newcastle is saying that perhaps the wolves killed Holman because they thought he would be a Seer scan target, because Holman might have 'longevity' ? if not that, no clue.

[Lassr]

So, I appreciate his playing the game, but he needs to give us (increasingly more) prose as the game continues, or my vote will swing his way.

we'll see how long it goes on. It'll end one of two ways:
1) he will stop it
2) he dies

[redrun]

So, join me on the pr0ner vote and see if I still got it.

(that was in reply to redrun, but clearly my post went in another direction anyhow)

I did follow what you were saying.... right up to the point where you moved your vote to Theohall.

Pr0ner hasn't caught my radar yet, but I'll do a re-read on him. However, pushing for me to join you implies to me that you strongly think Pr0ner is a wolf, where-as your vote for Theohall comes off much less as "kill a wolf" as compared to: "I'm frustrated by Theohall".

[Qantaga]

So, as best I can tell - we're sure of six lynches, and could have as many as nine.

Why does the grammar used here sound so wolfy to me? I know these things mean nothing and I know what redrun means and I know the redrun usually sits down and does this break down but the diction feels creepy.

So, I've read that over a couple of times and I'm not sure what you mean. I could understand if you were saying this is something a wolf might do to appear helpful, but I can't figure out what you mean by grammar and diction.

Since you know him and can hear his "voice," I'm genuinely curious what about the grammar/diction of this set off alarms for you.

[Lassr]

seer scanned
holman longevity
farting bird
?

What exactly does this mean?

I think Newcastle is chiming in on the whole "Why Holman?" question here. I think.

holman longevity.... well, no - Holman died, so he didn't have any 'longevity'.

seer scanned... Aha, I think Newcastle is saying that perhaps the wolves killed Holman because they thought he would be a Seer scan target, because Holman might have 'longevity' ? if not that, no clue.

makes sense. last line may mean "shit happens"

[Qantaga]

seer scanned
holman longevity
farting bird
?

What exactly does this mean?

I think Newcastle is chiming in on the whole "Why Holman?" question here. I think.

holman longevity.... well, no - Holman died, so he didn't have any 'longevity'.

seer scanned... Aha, I think Newcastle is saying that perhaps the wolves killed Holman because they thought he would be a Seer scan target, because Holman might have 'longevity' ? if not that, no clue.

Thanks. That's better than anything I could come up with.

If only there was someone who could tell us exactly what Newcastle meant.

[LordMortis]

So, as best I can tell - we're sure of six lynches, and could have as many as nine.

Why does the grammar used here sound so wolfy to me? I know these things mean nothing and I know what redrun means and I know the redrun usually sits down and does this break down but the diction feels creepy.

So, I've read that over a couple of times and I'm not sure what you mean. I could understand if you were saying this is something a wolf might do to appear helpful, but I can't figure out what you mean by grammar and diction.

Since you know him and can hear his "voice," I'm genuinely curious what about the grammar/diction of this set off alarms for you.

Not the voice. My brain doesn't process voice (among other things) well. The diction. If feels like the statement is saying the wolves requirement for victory more than it is saying how many chances the village has before it loses. Sort of like difference between euphemism and emotionally charged language. If just feels backwards from the presumed intent.

[Lassr]

seer scanned
holman longevity
farting bird
?

What exactly does this mean?

I think Newcastle is chiming in on the whole "Why Holman?" question here. I think.

holman longevity.... well, no - Holman died, so he didn't have any 'longevity'.

seer scanned... Aha, I think Newcastle is saying that perhaps the wolves killed Holman because they thought he would be a Seer scan target, because Holman might have 'longevity' ? if not that, no clue.

Thanks. That's better than anything I could come up with.

If only there was someone who could tell us exactly what Newcastle meant.

if only
Newcastle sucks
rain wet


they are not Hiaku's so I may need to exam them to see if he is leaving a hint in the number of syllables...then again maybe I won't.

[redrun]

Case in point:

seer scanned
holman longevity
farting bird
?

What exactly does this mean?

Can anyone interpret this for me, since it's doubtful he will.

So, I appreciate his playing the game, but he needs to give us (increasingly more) prose as the game continues, or my vote will swing his way.

When I first saw Newcastle's post I thought he might have come up with the reason for Holman's death. Evil scanned him, discovered he was a special and so they killed him. Made great sense - team evil scans players they don't expect to know much about, while not-scanning the players they intend to kill, but change their mind after discovering they scanned a special.

However, team evil doesn't have a scanner. I have seen Newcastle throw out false information before to hide his role. So... net result is a little less trust for Newcastle. I do agree that he needs to give us increasingly more prose as the game continues, so I offer up the following for Newcastle:
http://www.sonnetwriters.com/how-to-write-a-sonnet/" target="_blank