What was the last AAA 2d game?

[Kiam]

I can't think of ANYthing, and it's a shame. Some old games were really very well designed, graphically speaking. I mean, what was the last game as attractively original as Pac Man?

I guess it isn't exactly 3D that's my problem, but it does seem like 3D games tend to look a lot like one another. I suppose there have been some games that have been interesting and fresh visually and have also been in 3D. I remember liking Giants. It just seems like developers, who could draw any kind of world they want, always tend to make games as much like real life as the technology allows. Doesn't this frustrate anyone else?

[zinckiwi]

Abe's Oddysee perhaps?

Edit to say: I was just thinking of platformers. BG2 and Diablo II are both sprite-based.

[Lordnine]

Disciples II had a wonderful stylized look and I don’t think it came out that long ago…But if you’re limiting your selection to creative art direction in 2D games I think your going to be hard pressed to find much anyways, as much as I loved them I’ve come to terms with the fact that they are an almost extinct breed.

On the other hand, Warcraft III is filled with bright and cheerful combat; World of Warcraft is like living in a cartoon, Freedom Force is a moving comic book and Pychonauts(although I cant comment beyond the demo) has a delightfully twisted appearance.

But on the whole I prefer reality in my games, I never expect to have a chance to join in medieval warfare or single handedly stop an alien invasion. But being able to imagine myself there, aided by the most realistic graphics possible, without any personal danger to my self, I’m all for it.

[Grifman]

Wasn't Civ 3 2d?

[D.A.Lewis]

In my mind its not necessarily one game but a particular time frame that included the following games:

Moo2
Civ2
Fallout
X-com

[Sterling]

Wasn't Civ 3 2d?

Yup, and that's probably the last AAA title that wasn't 3d. I can't think of any others anyway.

[ChrisGwinn]

There's just no compelling reason to make a 2D game anymore. Even games that play in two dimensions are usually well served by having 3D character models. So unless you're playing a straight puzzle game or a really high level strategy game, why would you make it in 3D?

I do agree with you on art direction. There are more interesting things to do than to try and replicate the real world. Heck, movies don't even try to replicate the real world.

Interestingly, there have been more recent 2D games on consoles than on PC. Have you seen Alien Hominid? There's a flash version too.

[Defiant]

The Sims (and all it's expansion packs) and Roller Coaster Tycoon 1 and 2 were 2D.

[LordMortis]

There's just no compelling reason to make a 2D game anymore. Even games that play in two dimensions are usually well served by having 3D character models. So unless you're playing a straight puzzle game or a really high level strategy game, why would you make it in 3D?

I do agree with you on art direction. There are more interesting things to do than to try and replicate the real world. Heck, movies don't even try to replicate the real world.

Interestingly, there have been more recent 2D games on consoles than on PC. Have you seen Alien Hominid? There's a flash version too.

The only reason I can think of is that I perfer 2D games. For some reason 3D games seem to become more about the eyes than they are about the play. They get stuck on a 3D universe and a 3D universe interface and camera controls. I don't want or need to think about my lack of dexterity while playing games. Keep it simple and with any luck keep the cost down. Design a good mechanic and don't bog yourself down with polys and textures, but rather with mechanics of play.

[killbot737]

Paper Mario 2?

[J-Straw]

There's just no compelling reason to make a 2D game anymore. Even games that play in two dimensions are usually well served by having 3D character models. . .

I agree, and look to Super Smash Brothers as an example. I've had countless hours of fun with that game, and it plays basically in 2d. The graphics are 3d, and dodging is really the only part of the game which takes you to the third dimension. Sure, the game would be just as fun in 2d, but it's prettier in 3d.

[ChrisGwinn]

There's just no compelling reason to make a 2D game anymore. Even games that play in two dimensions are usually well served by having 3D character models. So unless you're playing a straight puzzle game or a really high level strategy game, why would you make it in 3D?

I do agree with you on art direction. There are more interesting things to do than to try and replicate the real world. Heck, movies don't even try to replicate the real world.

Interestingly, there have been more recent 2D games on consoles than on PC. Have you seen Alien Hominid? There's a flash version too.

The only reason I can think of is that I perfer 2D games. For some reason 3D games seem to become more about the eyes than they are about the play. They get stuck on a 3D universe and a 3D universe interface and camera controls. I don't want or need to think about my lack of dexterity while playing games. Keep it simple and with any luck keep the cost down. Design a good mechanic and don't bog yourself down with polys and textures, but rather with mechanics of play.

You prefer games that have simple mechanics and good gameplay without twitch gameplay. Whether it's 2D or not has nothing to do with that. There have been all sorts of 2D games that focused on graphics over game mechanics, or required lots of manual dexterity. Conversely, there are some very strategic games with 3D art assets.

[LordMortis]

Conversely, there are some very strategic games with 3D art assets.

While I am sure that is the case, I have yet to find a game that has focused on its 3D rendering that hasn't had that 3D rendering distract me or make make the game more difficult for me to play. I expect that one day I simply won't be attracted to gaming at all anymore primarily because I have gotten too old for the coming of the new games. Say "la V".

[tjg_marantz]

Duke Nukem Manhattan Project

[Caine]

when you say 2d, do you mean duke nukem 2 style or using 2d images instead of 3d?
if the latter, then RoN would be the last major game i think.

[ChrisGwinn]

Conversely, there are some very strategic games with 3D art assets.

While I am sure that is the case, I have yet to find a game that has focused on its 3D rendering that hasn't had that 3D rendering distract me or make make the game more difficult for me to play. I expect that one day I simply won't be attracted to gaming at all anymore primarily because I have gotten too old for the coming of the new games. Say "la V".

What do you mean by "focused on its 3D rendering"? Very few developers write their own engine. A game having 3D art doesn't necessarily tell you anything about the gameplay, camera angle or anything else. And focusing on 3D rendering is odd. Hell, Heroes of Might and Magic 3/4 had 3D rendered character art.

And I think you mean c'est la vie...

[ChrisGwinn]

when you say 2d, do you mean duke nukem 2 style or using 2d images instead of 3d?
if the latter, then RoN would be the last major game i think.

That's the other thing. 3D is like isometric - people use it in all sorts of bizarre contexts. Wing Commander had 2D graphics, but it certainly wasn't played in two dimensions.

[LordMortis]

What do you mean by "focused on its 3D rendering"? Very few developers write their own engine. A game having 3D art doesn't necessarily tell you anything about the gameplay, camera angle or anything else. And focusing on 3D rendering is odd. Hell, Heroes of Might and Magic 3/4 had 3D rendered character art.

I am probably using the wrong language then. What is it about 3D that sets Doom apart from HoMM (aside from being an FPS)? That is what I mean to say when talk about rendering a game world in 3 dimensions. I don't mean using Studio Max to design your icons.

[ChrisGwinn]

What do you mean by "focused on its 3D rendering"? Very few developers write their own engine. A game having 3D art doesn't necessarily tell you anything about the gameplay, camera angle or anything else. And focusing on 3D rendering is odd. Hell, Heroes of Might and Magic 3/4 had 3D rendered character art.

I am probably using the wrong language then. What is it about 3D that sets Doom apart from HoMM (aside from being an FPS)? That is what I mean to say when talk about rendering a game world in 3 dimensions. I don't mean using Studio Max to design your icons.

Well, in HoMM, they do a 3D render and convert it to an animated sprite. In Doom, the whole world is rendered at runtime. But there's no reason why HoMM couldn't do the whole thing at runtime now, with either a 3D or 2D background - that's what Temple of Elemental Evil did. Doing that would allow you to more easily do all sorts of cool things. Have you seen Silent Storm?

The original Doom had a 3D environment (sorta), but all of the characters and projectiles were 2D sprites. Doom 3's all 3D.

[Sterling]

Paper Mario 2?

Plays in 3d, just has 2d sprite graphics on a 3d playfield.

[moss_icon]

football manager 2005.

[wonderpug]

If you're not limiting it to PC games, there are a ton of popular 2d fighting games.

[ChrisGwinn]

If you're not limiting it to PC games, there are a ton of popular 2d fighting games.

Not that many recently, except for the various capcom/SNC repackagings. I do have a copy of Guilty Gear X2 #Reload I need to dig into...

[Remus West]

I slight bit off topic, but I had heard rumor about a freeware version of X-com that would run on XP. Has anyone heard anything about this or know of a link?

[jester1176]

starcraft.

[Kraken]

Sim City 4 maybe?

I generally prefer the look of 2D. I don't mind 3D if the graphics aren't the star of the game and you don't have to wrestle with camera controls.

[Kiam]

That's pretty much how I feel as well. I just feel like in most 3D games, even ones that play in 2D (Like Smash Bros. etc.) focus too little on design and too much on the technical details.

[LordMortis]

I don't mind 3D if the graphics aren't the star of the game and you don't have to wrestle with camera controls.

That's the heart of my problems with 3D games. Those two factors seem integral to games that I put in the 3D catagory.

The funny thing is that there is so much you could to expand the idea of gaming in the 3D world, but it's completely ignored. Imagine, for instance, playing a more cerebral boardgame like game in a 3D environment. You could take a real board game like Titan and mix it with a similar general maker like HoMMIII and build and incredible mountian where you could muster troops from around and inside the mountian while exploring on specific paths before coming into combat in various terrains. Playing and controlling the game in 3 Dimensions would be amazing. No one wants to head in that direction though.

[ChrisGwinn]

That's pretty much how I feel as well. I just feel like in most 3D games, even ones that play in 2D (Like Smash Bros. etc.) focus too little on design and too much on the technical details.

I'd say you could drop 3D from that and still have a true statement. Maybe I'm just old and cranky, but I remember the same problems with games before consumer 3D.

[Byrns]

football manager 2005.

Agreed