How is your career going?

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:13 am

I got a rock.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:07 am

A rock would be an improvement. Instead, any money that might otherwise go to salary or bonuses is instead spent to acquire other companies, which then gets added to our workload as we have to assimilate them, dismantle them, or both.

PLW · Post by **PLW** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:37 am

Zarathud wrote:I got a rock.

J.D. · Post by **J.D.** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:46 am

Big interview in an hour! Could be career changing. Let's do this!

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:50 am

Malificent · Post by **Malificent** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:49 am

My career is going great. I applied for my old boss's position and got passed over for someone from the outside, but honestly that was probably a good thing. The new boss is fantastic and the best boss I've ever had. I'm learning SO much from her and the team dynamics are the best they have ever been. Plus I got executive leadership training and I'm pivoting into a new role as a Digital Marketing Specialist which I find to be really fun and intriguing.

Good stuff.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:57 am

Jeff V wrote:A rock would be an improvement. Instead, any money that might otherwise go to salary or bonuses is instead spent to acquire other companies, which then gets added to our workload as we have to assimilate them, dismantle them, or both.

A lot is dependent on how a company structures its salary treatment and bonuses. Here, your target bonus is always a set percentage of your base salary, dependent on your pay grade. I think they're something like 11%, 13%, 19%, 25%, and super-rich-executives-who-don't-really-need-the-bonus-but-they'll-get-a-huge-bonus-anyway%. The payout on that bonus is then based on the company and one's division hitting certain numbers. Tabulate all of that, and my organization's bonus will be paid out at 88% of the target this year. There can also, but by no means always, be some additional discretionary bonus money paid for individual achievements. That bonus money is all considered a part of your compensation package, so it's not like this is just some extra money the company found that they decided to lavish on employees instead of purchasing Egyptian cotton toilet paper for the executive bathrooms. If they didn't pay out these bonuses, the market would require base salaries to be higher to remain competitive.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:01 pm

Our bonuses are based on different things at different levels, and dollar amounts set per classification. At my current salary and bracket, max bonuses would result in 5.6% on a yearly basis. We hit 50% of three of the last four, meaning it was more like 3.5%. Payouts are quarterly.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:36 pm

ImLawBoy wrote:A lot is dependent on how a company structures its salary treatment and bonuses.

For as long as I've been here (coming up on 5 years), it's been like this:

Everyone gets a 1% raise, no deviation for exceptional performance or criminal suckitude. Two of the years had a nominal bonus -- 1% one year, and two, flat-rate $300 bonuses separated by 5 months last year. Nothing has been announced this year, not even the token 1% raise. Meanwhile, we conquered 4 competitors last year and this year and next will be filled with the painful assimilation (or dismantlement) of these new companies (comprising of more than 100 locations).

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:41 pm

ImLawBoy wrote:
Jeff V wrote:A rock would be an improvement. Instead, any money that might otherwise go to salary or bonuses is instead spent to acquire other companies, which then gets added to our workload as we have to assimilate them, dismantle them, or both.
A lot is dependent on how a company structures its salary treatment and bonuses. Here, your target bonus is always a set percentage of your base salary, dependent on your pay grade. I think they're something like 11%, 13%, 19%, 25%, and super-rich-executives-who-don't-really-need-the-bonus-but-they'll-get-a-huge-bonus-anyway%. The payout on that bonus is then based on the company and one's division hitting certain numbers. Tabulate all of that, and my organization's bonus will be paid out at 88% of the target this year. There can also, but by no means always, be some additional discretionary bonus money paid for individual achievements. That bonus money is all considered a part of your compensation package, so it's not like this is just some extra money the company found that they decided to lavish on employees instead of purchasing Egyptian cotton toilet paper for the executive bathrooms. If they didn't pay out these bonuses, the market would require base salaries to be higher to remain competitive.

Ours are pretty similar, adjusted by your review.

MHS · Post by **MHS** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:43 pm

I know I bring it up every time, but seriously I get all charged up whenever I hear about people's raises. No raises, no reviews. Have been at the exact same salary since 2009. I would fall over from shock if I got a 3% CoL increase, much less any kind of review and merit-based increase. We've added clients since 2009, my workload and travel has increased since 2009, my salary just sits there. I'd be more proactive about asking for a raise if I didn't already feel kind of over-paid, but it still sucks for morale.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:13 pm

My boss' boss to me just now:

"I feel like I have way too much work to do just looking at the emails that need approval for how much work you have to do."

Hopefully raises are coming soon and I'll feel something other than stress for a few days.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:37 pm

MHS wrote:I know I bring it up every time, but seriously I get all charged up whenever I hear about people's raises. No raises, no reviews. Have been at the exact same salary since 2009. I would fall over from shock if I got a 3% CoL increase, much less any kind of review and merit-based increase. We've added clients since 2009, my workload and travel has increased since 2009, my salary just sits there. I'd be more proactive about asking for a raise if I didn't already feel kind of over-paid, but it still sucks for morale.

Annual CPI for 2009 was 214.537. 2014 was 236.736. That means your effective wage has fallen 10.35% since you started.

Post by **FishPants** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:40 pm

Octavious wrote:25% bonus seems pretty nice. 4 hour commute? Not so much. Mine is around 2 hours and it drives me nuts most of the time.

The commute is mostly on a train so it's not TOO bad. I wouldn't do it if even half of it was by car in traffic, not a chance.

Still though it's that bonus that keeps everyone around -- My guys get about half that, but it's still a great bonus in the industry and economy (and the company knows it). Over a barrel, but I'm starting to plan for that fateful day. I think I'll jump into the Masters program and get that going, it can't hurt.

Fretmute · Post by **Fretmute** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:45 pm

I was cold called yesterday and offered a job. It was very disconcerting.

MHS · Post by **MHS** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:51 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
MHS wrote:I know I bring it up every time, but seriously I get all charged up whenever I hear about people's raises. No raises, no reviews. Have been at the exact same salary since 2009. I would fall over from shock if I got a 3% CoL increase, much less any kind of review and merit-based increase. We've added clients since 2009, my workload and travel has increased since 2009, my salary just sits there. I'd be more proactive about asking for a raise if I didn't already feel kind of over-paid, but it still sucks for morale.
Annual CPI for 2009 was 214.537. 2014 was 236.736. That means your effective wage has fallen 10.35% since you started.

Sshhhh.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:00 pm

Fretmute wrote:I was cold called yesterday and offered a job. It was very disconcerting.

Was it for a job selling things nobody really wants? I got a call like that once and it turned out to be a financial services pyramid scheme. When they start their pitch, "Now, this is not a pyramid scheme...", you can bet you're dealing with one of the Pharaoh's henchmen.

Fretmute · Post by **Fretmute** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:04 pm

Jeff V wrote:
Fretmute wrote:I was cold called yesterday and offered a job. It was very disconcerting.
Was it for a job selling things nobody really wants? I got a call like that once and it turned out to be a financial services pyramid scheme. When they start their pitch, "Now, this is not a pyramid scheme...", you can bet you're dealing with one of the Pharaoh's henchmen.

No. Evidently a guy that contracted for us a few years back has started his own company, and wants to poach some engineers.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:29 pm

I've had that happen several times over my tenure here. I was tempted to listen to the last one that happened about a year ago.

WYBaugh · Post by **WYBaugh** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:33 pm

So follow up on my recent work life:

My manager is based in Seattle and our main office is in Jacksonville so effectively for the last 2+ years we've been a development shop with no direct management. Upper management has decided that he needs help and have promoted him to be a director and now want to hire a development manager in Jacksonville. I was approached by my CIO asking if I was interested in pursuing this position.

Now I was asked two managers before this to become the development manager as well as having my current manager in Seattle begging me to take on this role in Jacksonville for his sake but each time I politely turned it down. In my previous job I was a development group manager for 6 years and I have been enjoying just coding/supporting at my current job. As the past 2 years have gone by, my group has leaned on me as a defacto lead and I've seen how the lack of a manager helping the team has affected morale and how the dev group is treated by the rest of IT. In my original post in this thread I stated that I've been pondering what to do with the rest of my life so after the CIO asked, I thought now might be a good time to make the career change.

So my decision to accept was met very favorably by the CIO. He states that we'll need to set up a quick meeting with the head of HR to discuss things. Before the meeting occurs all current team leads are asked to take a personality scan tron test thingy.

I receive a 30 minute meeting invite with the CIO and HR. The meeting begins by going into my scan tron results which very positive but shows that I have a ton of empathy. I then field questions about my previous experience as a manager and also specifically why did I change my mind and want to be a manger now after turning it down before.

I took this as a casual meeting and effectively stated what I wrote above...I am getting old for a programmer. I have spent 8 years of my life doing what the company asked me to do (work on an ancient .NET program) so I either attempt to get my skills set back up or put my energies in a new direction of becoming the manager of my group. I also mentioned that I've been doing 24x7 support for 25 years and I'm really done with that aspect of work (I know, shouldn't have mentioned this but I'll get to that in a second).

Last part was asking me how I would feel firing a peer. I answered that it would be hard when you've worked with all of the developers for the last 9 years but understand that tough decisions have to be made as part of being a manager.

So all of the questions are hugely leading by the HR lady and truthfully, I came into this meeting as the CIO described it to me...just a quick discussion concerning the position...as in, position responsibilities, etc. In no way did I think I was walking into what would become to them an interview.

So around three weeks pass by. During this time I had one hallway conversation with the CIO (I did not start it) where he told me he has not forgot about me but that he and HR were working on logistics. Yesterday I get another hallway stop and he asks if I have a moment. He tries to duck into an already occupied conference room so we end up walking back to his empty office (thought this was weird). He proceeds to tell me that when we last spoke he had mentioned that they were going to also look outside for the position (this was not brought up) and that he would like for me to sit with this individual and interview him.

Took a few minutes for it to sink and he had a meeting so before I got too worked up I figured it would be best to speak to HR. When I go in and she immediately knows what I'm going to ask. She also goes on to explain that they are looking for the best candidate due to the last two misses and that I just didn't seem to have the desire for the position. Effectively I was looking for a way out of handling support and that my empathy was way to high and that it would kill me to have to make the hard decisions.

The wall of text brings me to meat of the post. I'm seriously pissed, frustrated and disappointed right now. For starters, again, I have worked for this company for 9 years. They know me. They know what type of person I am and my work ethic. To somehow base my desire, etc on a 30 minute conversation and a pseudo-science scan tron is a huge slap in the face to me. Also they sit on this for weeks and don't ask me for any clarification of their concerns. I get nothing but two hallway conversations. Then the final straw is to then say they respect my opinion on the guy they want to hire??? Told HR that you didn't care for my opinion on the last two of my bosses hirings, why in the world would I want to for a position that I'm also trying to get? The entire kicker is I was asked to pursue this position...I have done none of the pursuing.

HR obviously talked to CIO because I'm walking back to the building from lunch and CIO stops me now for a parking lot meeting. I expressed my concerns of the above and pretty much received the response that I would be a great fit for the current status quo but seeing that 5 years down the road we need to change, have new ideas, etc. that obviously I have no effing clue how to do so that's why they're looking outside. He then went on to a whole bunch of tangential bs that I ignored.

All of this had to happen right before I'm on a two week vacation so I get to stew about it.

What do I do now. The main rage is not that I will not get the position but rather in the way that I have been treated. This is a smallish company that prides itself on people blah blah but man, they do some slimy stuff. At the moment I feel that if hell froze over and they offered me the position I wouldn't take it. Should I feel as pissed as I do? I have written off the new hire without even knowing him just due to the circumstances. Yeah it's wrong, not his fault, but there it is. We all get the 'I'm ready to leave this shit' but then get over it but this to me is over the top unprofessional. I'm ready to sharpen the resume and bail.

So look elsewhere? Suck it up, put the headphones on and just work?

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:39 am

Basically, someone thought after a cursory review of your background that you could do the management job and make the transition easy for the company. They pulled the trigger without thinking. Now they're having second thoughts after going through the process and further discussion.

If you want to be a manager, you show that you're not as empathetic as they think you are -- and play the political game to get the job, showing your chops. If what you've told them in the interview is actually true, then you're either going to have to fight or walk away.

Post by **FishPants** » Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:49 am

Put your head phones on, get back to work -- and look for another job. More so because you're coding in .NET and you've already stated you know thats some stale skills. Update and move, otherwise you're allowing yourself to get painted into a corner at your current place of employment.

Just stay quiet now, and make the move as soon as something good comes along.

P.S. Every company treats their employees like shit when it needs to. I've yet to come across any that genuinely give a crap, sometimes you're lucky to get a good manager -- but for the most part corporate culture is a cold bitch.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:41 am

Governments tend to be so far behind the curve that you could use those .Net skills for another decade at least. Pay might not be as good, but at least you get to go home at quiting time.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:42 pm

My college was teaching us COBOL in the 90s because JCPenney needed developers.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:38 pm

GreenGoo wrote:Governments tend to be so far behind the curve that you could use those .Net skills for another decade at least. Pay might not be as good, but at least you get to go home at quiting time.

You are being generous. We haven't even started using .NET yet because it's too new. Our major weapon systems are still MFC-based C++ monsters. I get to use C# but they treat me like I'm working in the far future.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:34 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:My college was teaching us COBOL in the 90s because JCPenney needed developers.

Ditto because banks and treasury board were still using it on mainframes. JCL too.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:17 pm

:shudder:

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:35 pm

College-level COBOL courses are still a thing.

Fellstrike · Post by **Fellstrike** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:35 pm

I'm a jack of all trades IT Operations guy (Network/System/Data Center Admin) but ended up settling on Networking as my specialty, so I'm currently doing Network Engineering. It's okay but I enjoy high level and administrating more than engineering. I definitely don't see myself staying in this type of role for the next 10 years - hopefully not even 5. I don't want to get stuck in that role and end up not being able to get out of it, especially when my skills begin to get rusty, get burnt out from on-call, etc. Currently looking to make the next step into an IT Management role, ideally over operations rather than a specific group. I have experience in leadership roles in the Army and performed many management type functions. To help further this cause, I finished my bachelor's in Informatics (Information Science) with a minor in Business. In the meantime, I'm making the most of it and building up project hours so I can take my PMP certification.

Last time I was here, I was working as a Network Engineer for a bank in Lafayette. There were actually Help Desk people making more than me and although I was offered promotions, they refused to compensate me fairly for it. I was getting paid so shitty that I couldn't afford to get a loan from them to buy a house. Once I finished my college & military obligations, I quickly realized how depressing it was to live in Lafayette. Being constantly busy left me blinded. I pleaded with the company to allow me to relocate to our Dallas office. It was well received by my boss but not by the others. In the end, I found another job located in Dallas where I'm performing the same duties but with a 90% increase in pay.

Making this switch has allowed me to get to know the family I have up here, spend time with lots of friends that I usually only get to see twice a year, more fun on the social scene, more success with dates, more professional opportunities and afford to buy a place of my own! Needless to say, I'm pretty happy with how things are right now but I'm still working on making it better.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:47 pm

Welcome to town!

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:48 pm

Max Peck wrote:College-level COBOL courses are still a thing.

source -- not sure of source's source wrote:roughly 200 billion lines of code in production that would need to be replaced. It would not only take a long time, but cost companies a lot of money... With roughly 5 billion lines of new COBOL code added to live systems every year....

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:48 pm

Hmmm career, an interesting but an unusual word.
Lets see, last 10 years i have been doing some forms of coaching related to dating. I started out as a solo coach, then build a team of pros and i did mostly management and sales, then started a start up in that field and then an organization that right now is a world authority in the field. That said i am slowly but shurly leaving the industry.

Over the years i realized that a) people dont appreciate dating advice b)everyone thinks they are experts at it and c) due to previous two factors its hard to make real money in long term. My start up never took off the ground for various reasons ( i did learn a metric tons of info and totally changed my view on business, scale and everything else under the sun), and right now in stage of either making it or closing it down. My local business has hit its growth limit and i dont want to be in that industry anymore, hence i am winding it down. My organization is probably strongest potential, but i dont think it will be that profitable for the amount of effort i would have to put int. All in all, i am burned out on the industry.

Over the last 4 years i have spent a lot of time on doing a lot of stuff such as seo, digital marketing and many other things that are relevant to my companies but also i did a lot of consulting work for other companies. I have been invited to speaking seminars and events in the field. I have acquired skills running my "enterprise" of all variety, from front end to project management to events to a lot of things. Now i am working on a ecomerce with a start up idea that puts a lot of my skills into one package. This might be my real home run in terms of my plans.

Not sure if that's a career, but its something.

Gryndyl · Post by **Gryndyl** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:03 am

Finished writing my first novel recently. I had it to the point where I was just about to pull the trigger on self-publishing it when I got a nibble from a fairly big-league agency. I expect nothing will come of it but I'll at least wait to get a rejection later from them before publishing. Either way, I'll have a novel out at some point.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:37 am

Gryndyl wrote:Finished writing my first novel recently. I had it to the point where I was just about to pull the trigger on self-publishing it when I got a nibble from a fairly big-league agency. I expect nothing will come of it but I'll at least wait to get a rejection later from them before publishing. Either way, I'll have a novel out at some point.

Cool! I've been curious about the process between having a finished book and getting it published. Hopefully you'll be able to provide some updates, whether it's through an agency or self-publishing.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:39 am

msteelers wrote:
Gryndyl wrote:Finished writing my first novel recently. I had it to the point where I was just about to pull the trigger on self-publishing it when I got a nibble from a fairly big-league agency. I expect nothing will come of it but I'll at least wait to get a rejection later from them before publishing. Either way, I'll have a novel out at some point.
Cool! I've been curious about the process between having a finished book and getting it published. Hopefully you'll be able to provide some updates, whether it's through an agency or self-publishing.

A former colleague had her novel published by a small digital publisher. She got a whopping $25 advance...and several years later it still hasn't sold enough copies for her royalties to exceed that advance. It was a pretty awful book, though.

Binktopia · Post by **Binktopia** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:16 pm

I want a career. I have a smattering of jobs that I have been hired to do with a tiny thread of customer service that binds them all.

I want something I can leap up and up with.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:54 pm

My boss just included in a note that I should be contacted because I'm the North America Database Operations Lead.

I need to find out if I can get Asia too. That's 7 armies per turn.

WYBaugh · Post by **WYBaugh** » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:46 pm

So to finish off the big FU I went in today on the first day of my 2 week PTO to make sure that my project going in to QA/UAT was successful for my business lead. My CIO and HR lady saw me at least four times in the hallway going out to the floor. Came back from lunch and see a meeting invite from the CIO to all developers titled 'Catching up'.

Know what this is going in but want to make sure so I stick around for the meeting and yep, he announces the hiring of the external guy for the position. Neither of them have the professionalism or balls I guess to officially tell me that I did not get the position but has to be announced in front of the entire group.

So that just lit a bonfire under my bitterness.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:59 pm

So, I happen to know someone that gave notice on the second of this month that they were accepting a position in another part of a large company. The problem is, the existing manager won't release this person and has been dodging and avoiding the hiring manager's requests to discuss the transfer. Official policy states the hiring manager might need to wait up to 30 days, but that seems to be rare - two weeks from when notice is given is typical. Well, this morning a conversation was finally held and the existing manager still refuses to give a date of transfer because the person in question is apparently suddenly in charge of seeing a project through to the end - no date given. I've never seen something so ridiculous in all of my working life -- and I spent over a decade in the public sector. How bosses of bosses and HR haven't stepped in yet to squash this, I have no idea. Sorry for writing this in a way that's a bit general, I'm trying to make sure it doesn't come up in random searching.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:22 pm

Just got done with the phone calls to my old boss and from my new boss - my promotion is official! My title won't be as cool (from Executive Negotiator to Director Contracts/Sourcing (or something like that)), but it's a level higher, including better salary and bonus treatment.