ISIS

[hepcat]

Flaming?

[Anonymous Bosch]

Flaming?

As in 'ablaze'.

But I've edited the post to avoid further confusion.

[hepcat]

heh

[SlapBone]

Once we elect someone that is willing to use better adjectives to describe them everything will fall into place.

Ok, this may be signature material.

[Holman]

What harm is done by trying to make it clear that not all followers of Islam are terrorists?

...oh wait...this is just a THANKS OBAMA! post, isn't it?

How does refusing to acknowledge that the terrorists that are beheading people are doing so using Islam as a justification help? I fail to see where pointing out they are Islamic does any more harm than pointing out the Crusades were done by Christians or any other crime perpetrated in the name of a religion.

The notion that doing so somehow indicates a disdain for all Muslims is ridiculous and repulsive.

The whole premise that Obama doesn't see the terrorists as espousing an extreme and perverted version of Islam is wrong.

From the president's statement yesterday:

Al Qaeda and ISIL and groups like it are desperate for legitimacy. They try to portray themselves as religious leaders -- holy warriors in defense of Islam. That’s why ISIL presumes to declare itself the “Islamic State.” And they propagate the notion that America -- and the West, generally -- is at war with Islam. That’s how they recruit. That’s how they try to radicalize young people. We must never accept the premise that they put forward, because it is a lie. Nor should we grant these terrorists the religious legitimacy that they seek. They are not religious leaders -- they’re terrorists. (Applause.) And we are not at war with Islam. We are at war with people who have perverted Islam. (Applause.)

This statement would make no sense if Obama thought the terrorists weren't Islamic. But the relationship between violence and Islam isn't simple: it's that the terrorists are pushing a violent interpretation of the religion that isn't practiced by the vast majority of Muslims. The critics who say "Obama says terrorists aren't Islamic!" are simply pushing their own line that Islam is essentially terroristic. In other words, they're giving ISIS the religious legitimacy civilized people should be denying them.

[Smoove_B]

I knew you were just using your queer language to express emotion. No offense taken.

I'm just amazed that anyone is focusing at all on the language President Obama uses. I'm not even sure if that's Top 10 in the list of "the problems". To be fair, I also don't know how we deal with it. Making sure Americans (and others) realize "Not All Muslims" or whatever the message is now isn't why ISIS is decapitating people or burning them alive in cages. And while there are absolutely ignorant people that believe ISIS = Muslim, taking the time to convince them otherwise probably isn't worth the effort. It's no different than the gay marriage issue. We get it. You don't like it. We're moving on without you.

Regardless, seemingly every move we make on the chess table emboldens them. Ignore them? They try harder. Come at them with 10x the fury? Look how the Americans fear us - join our cause. Capture them and let them rot in a cell? Join our cause as Americans torture your brothers. It just seems like every move is crap.

[Holman]

Regardless, seemingly every move we make on the chess table emboldens them. Ignore them? They try harder. Come at them with 10x the fury? Look how the Americans fear us - join our cause. Capture them and let them rot in a cell? Join our cause as Americans torture your brothers. It just seems like every move is crap.

The best thing would be for saner regional powers to de-legitimize and reduce them. The U.S. can't play Superman unless we get a whole lot of local buy-in to the Justice League.

[Holman]

Let's start this general ISIS thread with the recent article from The Atlantic.

What ISIS Really Wants

Terrific link, BTW. Thanks.

[Zarathud]

Does anyone really think getting down into the gritty politics is going to help Obama any? He's better off with people nitpicking.

The way to win is to get regional Muslim players to fight ISIS and deprive them of territory. ISIS wins if we respond in kind and give them a war on the ground--especially their chosen battlefield. Falling into the old rhetoric is a trap.

Silly bear.

[Kraken]

The way to win is to get regional Muslim players to fight ISIS and deprive them of territory. ISIS wins if we respond in kind and give them a war on the ground--especially their chosen battlefield. Falling into the old rhetoric is a trap.

Exactamundo. Fortunately ISIS has no friendly states in the region. On the contrary, they are determined to make enemies of everybody else. This is one to play by proxy.

[raydude]

Yes, the problem here is the exact words our current president uses to describe them. Once we elect someone that is willing to use better adjectives to describe them everything will fall into place.

Don't be such a drama queen.

No one is seriously suggesting it's the problem, only that it's a problem.

Edited to avert hepcat's knickers from getting knotted.

My ability to read and infer context could be broken but I believe the fact that it seems an important enough problem to suggest this board is full of heathens willing to call out Christians and give Muslims a pass is what is being ridiculed.

[mori]

I wonder what is Turkey's end game here? They are the gateway for foreign fighters to travel through their country and cross the border into Syria and join ISIS, why don't they do more to cut this off? I know they want to prevent a Kurdistan more than anything, but this conflict by proxy will create an even stronger Peshmerga. The Peshmerga are the only ones seemingly able to take the fight to ISIS and this will create even more support for military and economic aid and an eventual independent state.

[Anonymous Bosch]

An amusing -- and quite splendiferous -- skewering of the State Department's ISIS offensive, courtesy of Whitney Blake:

On its much maligned Twitter feed, Think AgainTurn Away, the State Department is denouncing higher taxes -- and even asserting they're evidence a utopian society is a pipe dream.

Stop the presses! Where is the outrage from liberal academia and elites over this major fiscal policy faux pas from their kindred spirits at Foggy Bottom?

Well, before one jumps to the conclusion that the State Department is advocating for lower taxes, read the fine print. Higher taxes are apparently bad for those living in Syria under ISIS rule. No word about any other taxpayers in any other countries:

Syria: #ISIS raisestaxes for poor service delivery in Raqqa; false myth of “utopia” once again revealed as propaganda pic.twitter.com/VeqzTMk1s4

— Think AgainTurn Away (@ThinkAgain_DOS) February 18, 2015

The State Department is doing its part in the war against ISIS -- the social media war, that is -- with its acerbic hashtag weapons.

It's hard to tell if the pen is mightier than the sword, considering, well, neither are very mighty at the moment.

But maybe the State Department is onto something after all, at least from an economic perspective. Are higher taxes actually just "propaganda" to further a "false" utopian agenda?

Surely there must be some way to examine this hypothesis further. Perhaps one could study the success rates of previous utopias. Or one could take a trip to the DMV. Or try to sign up for Obamacare. Or visit a local public school. Or hunt for successfully completed "shovel ready" projects in one's hometown. Any one of these activities would keep a person occupied for days!

But the State Department doesn't stop there with its soft diplomacy musings. It also wants to provide access to gainful employment opportunities for ISIS sympathizers, as Marie Harf made abundantly clear.

More jobs instead of government welfare programs? Lower taxes to boot? And for good measure, fomenting anger towards money-grabbing bureaucrats who stiff the taxpayer with poor quality service? If one didn't know any better, one would think the State Department got its talking points from the Tea Party.

The folks at Foggy Bottom may have stumbled onto a kernel of truth regarding lower taxes. If only they would share their new found wisdom with the rest of the executive branch, and apply it to our own pocketbooks. #lowertaxesforall?

[Combustible Lemur]

An amusing -- and quite splendiferous -- skewering of the State Department's ISIS offensive, courtesy of Whitney Blake:

On its much maligned Twitter feed, Think AgainTurn Away, the State Department is denouncing higher taxes -- and even asserting they're evidence a utopian society is a pipe dream.

Stop the presses! Where is the outrage from liberal academia and elites over this major fiscal policy faux pas from their kindred spirits at Foggy Bottom?

Well, before one jumps to the conclusion that the State Department is advocating for lower taxes, read the fine print. Higher taxes are apparently bad for those living in Syria under ISIS rule. No word about any other taxpayers in any other countries:

Syria: #ISIS raisestaxes for poor service delivery in Raqqa; false myth of “utopia” once again revealed as propaganda pic.twitter.com/VeqzTMk1s4

— Think AgainTurn Away (@ThinkAgain_DOS) February 18, 2015

The State Department is doing its part in the war against ISIS -- the social media war, that is -- with its acerbic hashtag weapons.

It's hard to tell if the pen is mightier than the sword, considering, well, neither are very mighty at the moment.

But maybe the State Department is onto something after all, at least from an economic perspective. Are higher taxes actually just "propaganda" to further a "false" utopian agenda?

Surely there must be some way to examine this hypothesis further. Perhaps one could study the success rates of previous utopias. Or one could take a trip to the DMV. Or try to sign up for Obamacare. Or visit a local public school. Or hunt for successfully completed "shovel ready" projects in one's hometown. Any one of these activities would keep a person occupied for days!

But the State Department doesn't stop there with its soft diplomacy musings. It also wants to provide access to gainful employment opportunities for ISIS sympathizers, as Marie Harf made abundantly clear.

More jobs instead of government welfare programs? Lower taxes to boot? And for good measure, fomenting anger towards money-grabbing bureaucrats who stiff the taxpayer with poor quality service? If one didn't know any better, one would think the State Department got its talking points from the Tea Party.

The folks at Foggy Bottom may have stumbled onto a kernel of truth regarding lower taxes. If only they would share their new found wisdom with the rest of the executive branch, and apply it to our own pocketbooks. #lowertaxesforall?

Are you sure that's not an onion article? If that a actual journalist, the stupid knows no bounds.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Are you sure that's not an onion article? If that a actual journalist, the stupid knows no bounds.

Lighten up, Francis. It's just a snarky blog post poking some fun at the risible State Department Twitter feed.

[Rip]

Hapless Islamic State militants have vowed online to take over Rome - and 'throw homosexuals off the leaning tower of pizza'.
In the message, posted by a Twitter account linked to the terror group, the ISIS supporter also threatens to bring sharia law to the Italian capital.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... PIZZA.html

[Kurth]

I thought this article by Robert Trestan, ADL head in New England, was pretty spot-on:

Anti-Semitism a Key Part of Terrorists' Tool Kit
As President Obama aptly stated, "we are not at war with Islam." However, we are at war with the people who pervert the Muslim faith to support death and destruction. They are motivated by radical interpretations of Islam and we should not shy away from identifying them as such. During World War II, we identified the enemy as Nazi Germany. When the Soviet Union threatened word stability, again we identified the enemy as communism. If the goal is to eliminate the threat, then let's be clear about who is trying to harm us and the reasons behind it.

Why have the fascists, communists and now the Islamists gone after the Jews? Because in their assaults on democratic values, on freedom, on modernity, they know the Jews represent them all. They see Jews as a particular evil, so they start with the Jews. But it doesn't stop there. Why the reluctance of democratic societies to recognize that anti-Semitism is the canary in the coal mine? Partly it's out of a desire to live with illusions, to convince oneself that things are not so bad. Attacks on Jews are one thing, but that doesn't mean that we are at risk. And partly, it's remnant of the deeply embedded stereotypes about Jews that held sway for centuries: the Jews are the "other" and the Jews bring on themselves their own victimhood.

Our efforts to get Western countries to protect their Jews must therefore not only rest on moral arguments. We must work to demonstrate, as Paris showed so powerfully last month, that standing up for the Jewish community is indeed to stand up for the well-being of democratic society. Propaganda disseminated by Islamic extremists regularly promotes anti-Semitism and is often packaged with explicit calls for violence against Jewish targets around the world. These groups are focused on exploiting hatred of Jews in an effort to connect with, appeal to, and ultimately recruit a cadre of would-be extremists in the United States, Europe and around the world.

Last summer, they used the war between Hamas and Israel to advance their own missions and rally recruits. Just a few days ago, al-Qaeda's affiliate in Somalia, al-Shabaab, released a video justifying the September 2013 terror attack on the Westgate Mall in Nairobi and encouraged similar attacks on "American or Jewish-owned" shopping centers. The terror attacks in Paris and Denmark serve as another wake-up call to Jewish communities around the world of the continued danger posed by individuals motivated by radical interpretations of Islam. Those attacks, and the dozens of additional plots against Jews and Jewish institutions around the world, including in the United States, underscore the urgent need for an examination of the role of anti-Semitism in terrorist indoctrination as part of any effort to mitigate the threat of violent extremism.

The success of the recent White House summit on extremism is dependent on what happens in communities across America - a point the president stressed in his address. Boston's political, community, and religious leaders must work together to curb the harmful consequences of the spread of hateful rhetoric and ideologies.

We need strategies to deconstruct the extremist narrative and use communication platforms to disseminate a counter-narrative. The pulpit is one of the oldest and most effective platforms. Clergy of all faiths play a tremendous role in putting forth a counter-narrative, focusing on American pluralism, inclusiveness, and democracy. Extremist recruiters are looking for vulnerable people who will buy into their mission. If we don't give their prospects better options soon, it will be too late.

Islamic extremists have shown no restraint in murdering Muslims, Christians and Jews. They target Jewish institutions, democratic freedoms and law enforcement. They have identified us as the enemy; we should not hesitate to do the same.

Robert Trestan is the New England Regional Director of the Anti-Defamation League and attended the White House Summit on Countering Violent Extremism.

[Alefroth]

Walker is up to it.

"We need a leader with that kind of confidence. If I can take on 100,000 protesters, I can do the same across the world," he declared.

[Holman]

What a dick.

[LordMortis]

WTH?

What did he do to 100,000 protestors?

He will defeat ISIS everywhere in the world with his confidence? Seriously? ISIS rose (and Walker saw them coming) because Obama does not have Walker's Confidence? That has to be just out of context snippets. Right?

[Smoove_B]

No, of course not:

"I want a commander in chief who will do everything in their power to ensure that the threat from radical Islamic terrorists [does] not wash up on American soil,"

He's using all the right adjectives!

[LordMortis]

But what what power? Not the power of VooDoo!

"We will have someone who leads and ultimately will send a message that not only that we will protect American soil, but, 'Do not take this upon freedom-loving people anywhere else in the world.'"

What message? Walker's Message. What's Walker's message?

his track record of surviving raucous protests and tough elections.

"We need a leader with that kind of confidence. If I can take on 100,000 protesters, I can do the same across the world,"

[Alefroth]

If he can undermine unions, he can do the same to ISIS.

[Alefroth]

Even the National Review called him on it.

[Carpet_pissr]

Interesting op-ed refuting the idea that Islamic terrorists are fueled by poverty and lack of opportunity (not the video, the article):
http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/19/opinion/b ... index.html

[Isgrimnur]

There is never a catch-all motivation.

Lenin and Trotsky came from well-to-do families. The leadership tends to be well educated, and the younger ones tend to want to do something dramatic.

Those that man the front lines as their only choice aren't the ones that fled from their cushy lives to go be part of a glorious revolution.

Not everyone that gets radicalized does so because it's the only way to remain fed and sheltered. You don't have to be denied the trappings of a rich society to want to tear it down.

[Defiant]

Interesting op-ed refuting the idea that Islamic terrorists are fueled by poverty and lack of opportunity (not the video, the article):
http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/19/opinion/b ... index.html

I only read a little, but this isn't a new idea, IIRC, there was at least one study years ago that refuted the link between poverty and extremism.

[Moliere]

ISIS Militants Destroy Mosul Museum Artifacts and Burns Mosul Library

[Kraken]

ISIS Militants Destroy Mosul Museum Artifacts and Burns Mosul Library

Barbarians. (As if the beheadings and immolations weren't evidence enough.)

Honestly, a faith that is threatened by 12,000-year-old artifacts is awfully insecure.

[hepcat]

True that.

[Rip]

ISIS Militants Destroy Mosul Museum Artifacts and Burns Mosul Library

Barbarians. (As if the beheadings and immolations weren't evidence enough.)

Honestly, a faith that is threatened by 12,000-year-old artifacts is awfully insecure.

A world of people that outnumber them a million to one that can't stop them is awfully inept.

[hepcat]

It took us years to stop the Nazis, and we knew who they were at all times.

[Rip]

It took us years to stop the Nazis, and we knew who they were at all times.

Yep, and it took us nearly as long to decide we needed to, and just like then we had to drag a scary proportion of the world by their toes screaming all the way. Also just like then there were an alarming number that supported them in actions/inactions if not words.

Just remember you darwinized it not me.

[hepcat]

I could've used any war from our history or any other. The point was that wars aren't won overnight.

p.s. I'm not sure a large part of the world would agree with your view that we were the ones that had to drag other nations into World War II.

[Rip]

I could've used any war from our history or any other. The point was that wars aren't won overnight.

p.s. I'm not sure a large part of the world would agree with your view that we were the ones that had to drag other nations into World War II.

Make no mistake, the US needed dragged in as well. Something I think is one of the most damning black marks in our history. Thankfully it wasn't all the way and once we woke up and realized it wasn't going away we acted.

I think this time the future would be brighter if we stood solidly for what is right from jump street.

[Carpet_pissr]

Darwinize?

[hepcat]

I knew what he meant, but I didn't want to be too mean.

[Moliere]

True that.

Showing that it's the cool thing to do? This just seems like an attempt to avoid criticizing them.

[Rip]

Darwinize?

Sorry Godwinize, cold and I am sick since yesterday. For some reason that seems to make it challenging to convert thoughts to text.

[hepcat]

True that.

Showing that it's the cool thing to do? This just seems like an attempt to avoid criticizing them.

What makes you think that?