The Hillary Clinton thread

[gbasden]

For all the praise of her experience earlier in this thread, I think Hillary Clinton is actually an incredibly inept and wooden political candidate (i.e. similar to Mitt Romney, in that while he was certainly qualified and could've been a perfectly capable POTUS, he was an absolutely awful candidate for reasons not entirely dissimilar to HRC).

I tend to agree with you. I think Hillary certainly has the intelligence and the experience to do a decent job, but I don't find her to be a very capable politician. Not to mention that she is saddled with a lot of baggage. I find myself wishing for an LBJ figure, somebody who knows how to build coalitions and twist arms to actually get things accomplished.

[Rip]

Hillary is turning out to be pretty much Nixon Like. He expected everyone to believe him that there was nothing on the missing tapes. She expect everyone to believe there was nothing in the missing e-mails.

Don't even get me started on the absurdness of suggesting she needed to carry multiple devices to have multiple e-mail accounts.

[Exodor]

Don't even get me started on the absurdness of suggesting she needed to carry multiple devices to have multiple e-mail accounts.

She did specific "blackberry" - is it possible to setup multiple accounts on one?

It's been so long since I worked with one I don't remember.

It's still an incredibly flimsy excuse and doesn't explain anything to my satisfaction

[LordMortis]

Don't even get me started on the absurdness of suggesting she needed to carry multiple devices to have multiple e-mail accounts.

She did specific "blackberry" - is it possible to setup multiple accounts on one?

It's been so long since I worked with one I don't remember.

It's still an incredibly flimsy excuse and doesn't explain anything to my satisfaction

If it's been so long since you worked on one, then probably not. None of the models we had 6 years ago could do multiple accounts. My users are slowly going back to blackberries because they are the only phones you seem to be able to get with physical keyboards anymore. Both models circulating in my office today and do multiple accounts just like an Android or IPhone.

[Defiant]

I think she needed to speak and respond to questions, she couldn't just remain silent, and she really should have done it sooner. I haven't seen the press conference, but the articles I read don't have her addressing that the system was set up the same day she began her confirmation.

Clinton said she didn't send any classified information with her email, but asserted that there were no security breaches on the server anyway, which she said had been set up for President Bill Clinton's use, was housed on private property and guarded by Secret Service agents.

This implies that she sees a security breach as a physical breach. *shakes head*

I don't think there's anything actually scandalous in any of the emails, but she should give the server over for inspection by a third party (at the very least, to try and verify there have been no breaches).

[Trent Steel]

Don't even get me started on the absurdness of suggesting she needed to carry multiple devices to have multiple e-mail accounts.

She did specific "blackberry" - is it possible to setup multiple accounts on one?

It's been so long since I worked with one I don't remember.

It's still an incredibly flimsy excuse and doesn't explain anything to my satisfaction

If it's been so long since you worked on one, then probably not. None of the models we had 6 years ago could do multiple accounts. My users are slowly going back to blackberries because they are the only phones you seem to be able to get with physical keyboards anymore. Both models circulating in my office today and do multiple accounts just like an Android or IPhone.

My antiquated BlackBerry has three email accounts setup on it. I know it's old, but it works and I'm used to it so get off my lawn!

[GreenGoo]

Hillary is turning out to be pretty much Nixon Like. He expected everyone to believe him that there was nothing on the missing tapes. She expect everyone to believe there was nothing in the missing e-mails.

Don't even get me started on the absurdness of suggesting she needed to carry multiple devices to have multiple e-mail accounts.

We cannot have access to our work accounts on our private devices, and we cannot have our private email on our work issued blackberries. It's obviously not a technical limitation, but it's policy and it can't be worked around. Well, not easily, and it is a fireable offense so....not happening.

[Isgrimnur]

There were federal employees here in Dallas that were calling into a local show that stated the same. No more than one address delivered to more than one device.

[GreenGoo]

For the record I think Hillary should be raked over the coals for this, although I really don't expect anything overly nefarious to have been going on. Well, nothing that isn't going on in every politician's career.

[Defiant]

I think someone in a very sensitive position wouldn't want to access their private email account (that presumably goes through less filtering/screening) on their work device. Suppose that they get a computer virus/spyware through that email?

[Moliere]

Hillary Clinton's Questionable Process for Sorting Work Emails

To review, she asserted 1) a thorough investigation that included "going through" roughly 60,000 emails; 2) a standard of erring on the side of disclosing "anything" that could "possibly" be viewed as work related; 3) a "thorough" process robust enough to warrant "absolute confidence" in its results; 4) a process to turn over emails that could plausibly be characterized as "unprecedented."

Nearly everyone listening to these assurances came away with the impression that a person or team of people went through those 60,000+ emails and sorted them into two categories: work or personal. On The Daily Show, Jon Stewart mocked the notion that sorting through tens of thousands of emails was more "convenient" than maintaining both work and personal email accounts. Most criticism of the approach focused on the fact that Hillary Clinton confidantes, rather than neutral arbiters, were making the judgment calls about these 60,000+ emails.

But it turns out that no one was "going through" each email to sort work from personal correspondence or to error on the side of disclosure when the line was blurry.

[Rip]

Don’t expect a gold mine of emails on Hillary’s private account. Why not? Because she doesn’t know how to type. That’s right. She writes everything out in longhand. Really. Anyone who has spent time in meetings with her knows about her endless yellow pads.

Really?

Bill can’t type either. When I wrote his 1995 State of the Union Speech, I typed it on an IBM Selectric that the White House dug up from the basement. He told me that he didn’t want me to put it in the official computer system, because then his staff would see it.

So, he carefully copied every word in his distinctive left hand penmanship. I still have a copy of it. Then he pretended that he had written it himself.

The Clintons have figured out every which way to avoid disclosure of what they want to keep private. So don’t expect a smoking gun in Hillary’s emails.

Look, instead, to Huma, Cheryl, Jake Sullivan, and Philippe Reines — if they still exist.

http://thehillarydaily.com/hillary-cant ... ls-emails/

[Defiant]

Hillary Clinton expected to announce 2016 presidential campaign Sunday: source

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politic ... -1.2179866

[Fireball]

Don’t expect a gold mine of emails on Hillary’s private account. Why not? Because she doesn’t know how to type. That’s right. She writes everything out in longhand. Really. Anyone who has spent time in meetings with her knows about her endless yellow pads.

Really?

Bill can’t type either. When I wrote his 1995 State of the Union Speech, I typed it on an IBM Selectric that the White House dug up from the basement. He told me that he didn’t want me to put it in the official computer system, because then his staff would see it.

So, he carefully copied every word in his distinctive left hand penmanship. I still have a copy of it. Then he pretended that he had written it himself.

The Clintons have figured out every which way to avoid disclosure of what they want to keep private. So don’t expect a smoking gun in Hillary’s emails.

Look, instead, to Huma, Cheryl, Jake Sullivan, and Philippe Reines — if they still exist.

http://thehillarydaily.com/hillary-cant ... ls-emails/

Doesn't surprise me at all. People approaching 70 generally didn't grow up typing, and never learned. The positions Hillary has held have been ones that don't involve much typing.

Edited to note: I don't trust anything Dick Morris says about things like having written the entire SOTU on his own, etc. But it still makes sense that a 67 year old woman who has never held a position that requires typing wouldn't know how to type.

[noxiousdog]

Doesn't surprise me at all. People approaching 70 generally didn't grow up typing, and never learned.

What?

Both my parents know how to type and considered it an essential life skill. One did reports for a living, so it figures, but the other is an RN.

[Chrisoc13]

Yeah my parents are almost the exact same age as the Clintons and also consider it a life skill. Typing properly too. They used to talk about their typewriting class in school. I mean this isn't the Victorian era we are talking about. Nor are these smart phones or something new we are talking about. This is typing, which is not exactly new.

Not sure if this issue is even important but that explanation fireball is pretty much bs.

Edit- also btw neither of my parents are in careers that remotely use typing any more than your average Joe, if not less. Dad's a doctor, has always dictated all notes. Mom is in education, types average amount.

[stessier]

My parents are 65 & 66 and both had to take typing in school. My mother can touch type but my father uses the two finger method.

[Smoove_B]

My mother was a typist for a major corporation right out of high school so she does know the basics. No idea how she would do now with a keyboard or with a computer. My Dad can barely hunt and peck - it's almost painful to watch him use a keyboard and I'm pretty sure he avoids typing reports and sending email because it takes him forever. For reference, both are just shy of 70.

In the year 2015 I wouldn't trust someone under the age of 40 that cannot type. I wouldn't automatically expect someone over the age of 50 to have it as a life skill, particularly men.

[Isgrimnur]

Black Hawk Down made a point of mentioning the rarity of typing skills in the unit. The events were in 1993, meaning that personnel involved would have been born during the period of 1955-1975 in the vast majority of cases.

I took typing in Jr. High in the '88-'89 period.

[GreenGoo]

I took typing in high school, specifically because I was anticipating a career in computers in some fashion. My mother was a secretary for a law firm when she was younger, so she was a fantastic typer, my father who passed away in his early 50's, could barely hunt and peck, and he was an engineer.

[Jaymann]

I taught myself rudimentary typing just to the point where I can bang out about 13 words per minute. I rely heavily on copy, paste and edit.

[Fireball]

My dad is the same age as Hillary and Bill, and was a lawyer as well. Like them, he cannot type. Hunting and pecking does not count. My mother could type in college, but never had use for it, like most adults of her age, in the 70s or 80s, and by the time computers became truly commonplace in the 90s she could no longer type. None of their friends can really type, except for the couple that had corporate (non-lawyer) jobs and don't retire until the early 2000s. Most professional jobs didn't require typing skills until the 90s.

[Smoove_B]

There's also the public sector factor here as well. When I started my first internship working for local government back in 1996, I had an office secretary that told me she would type up anything I needed as that was part of her job. As someone that types 90+ words a minute, I assured her it wasn't necessary but every other person in my office (including my male boss) had her typing letter or whatever. Our private sector counterparts in the mid 1990s might have been typing their own documents, but I can tell you without question I was looked at as odd being a young college guy that could handle what had been traditionally given to a secretary to process.

[LordMortis]

My dad is the same age as Hillary and Bill, and was a lawyer as well. Like them, he cannot type. Hunting and pecking does not count. My mother could type in college, but never had use for it, like most adults of her age, in the 70s or 80s, and by the time computers became truly commonplace in the 90s she could no longer type. None of their friends can really type, except for the couple that had corporate (non-lawyer) jobs and don't retire until the early 2000s. Most professional jobs didn't require typing skills until the 90s.

Weird. My old man is almost 80, was an on deck naval enlisted man on a carrier for the end of Korea/start of Viet Nam and then went into the skilled trades for maintenance work at Ford and he taught us how to use a typewriter at a young age. He also made sure we had a computer when the Atari 800 came out for under $1000. My mother was a state university student artist turned housewife and she also learned how to type. On top of that neither were office oriented and both are off the grid old fashioned but learning to type was just something they did and something they wanted their children to do in effort to keep them away from factory work.

At the same, learning to type is not the same as being able to type 90 WPM errror free. It just means knowing where your fingers go and not having to look at the typewriter/keyboard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_quick_ ... e_lazy_dog

[LawBeefaroni]

I'm pretty sure that Hillary didn't have to type much ever. And I'm pretty sure she never had any incentive to learn to type. That doesn't absolve her of anything, it's just a pretty obvious conclusion.

Getting hung on whether she could or not is kind of silly but I guess that's politics for you.

[Rip]

I don't think not typing is as interesting as never writing your own emails. Having someone else write your emails is pretty pathetic.

[LawBeefaroni]

I don't think not typing is as interesting as never writing your own emails. Having someone else write your emails is pretty pathetic.

Eh, it's a living. Not as good as being above margin requirements but it's a living.

And typing your own emails is certainly not a job requirement of the Presidency. In fact, having someone else write your emails is probably required. Can you think of president in your lifetime who typed their own communications?

[noxiousdog]

I don't think not typing is as interesting as never writing your own emails. Having someone else write your emails is pretty pathetic.

Eh, it's a living. Not as good as being above margin requirements but it's a living.

And typing your own emails is certainly not a job requirement of the Presidency. In fact, having someone else write your emails is probably required. Can you think of president in your lifetime who typed their own communications?

Informal communications? All of them. Formal ones? None of them.

I think that's the bigger issue. There's no way she doesn't send email. If she's that out of touch and/or incompetent she's got no business running for the presidency.

Of course maybe that's true. McCain's age indicated he was out of touch, and I see no reason to suspect Hillary is any different.

[LordMortis]

And typing your own emails is certainly not a job requirement of the Presidency. In fact, having someone else write your emails is probably required. Can you think of president in your lifetime who typed their own communications?

At the same time, can you imagine not typing your own communication? You have to pretty far up the food chain to be able to say "Take a memo for me."

I also can imagine getting through college, much less law school without learning to type, even in the 60s. I'm not sure how far you'd have to go before I imagine all of your work being handed in hand written.

Politically, whatever. But mentally it's hard for me to empathize with. It's a different reality than the one I know.

[Kraken]

Typing class was mandatory in the 1960s, but boys treated it with disdain. Men have secretaries, and that's women's work. I can imagine that Hillary might have shunned it for the same reason -- disdain for menial skills that she was determined to never need.

[Rip]

Typing class was mandatory in the 1960s, but boys treated it with disdain. Men have secretaries, and that's women's work. I can imagine that Hillary might have shunned it for the same reason -- disdain for menial skills that she was determined to never need.

That sounds like just the kind of person I want running the country.

[Jaymann]

Typing class was mandatory in the 1960s, but boys treated it with disdain. Men have secretaries, and that's women's work. I can imagine that Hillary might have shunned it for the same reason -- disdain for menial skills that she was determined to never need.

That sounds like just the kind of person I want running the country.

Me too! I want a decision maker, not a computer gee...wait a minute, I do want a computer geek for president. Where can we find one with enough money to buy the presidency?

[Fireball]

It seems reasonable that as a lawyer in the 1970s and 80s that Hillary would have had a secretary to type for her. Many executives dictate memos and emails, even to this day. Hell, I don't know how to forward phone calls or work the copier at my office, my assistant does that. I imagine the person who had my job 20 years ago didn't type his own memos, either. Obviously, I type quite a bit. But times have changed.

[Chrisoc13]

Somehow I have the feeling if this were Romney we were talking about or another R your tune would be different.

Out of touch is out of touch.

[GreenGoo]

I don't get it.

Out of touch with what? (not directed at you specifically Chris. I'm having difficulty understanding what the problem is. Rip said it was pathetic. What is?).

[noxiousdog]

I don't get it.

Out of touch with what? (not directed at you specifically Chris. I'm having difficulty understanding what the problem is. Rip said it was pathetic. What is?).

Allegedly doesn't know how to send email.

[Chrisoc13]

I don't get it.

Out of touch with what? (not directed at you specifically Chris. I'm having difficulty understanding what the problem is. Rip said it was pathetic. What is?).

Just the idea of not knowing how to type. In this day and age saying "other people always did it for me" or some other excuse (which to be fair I do not believe Hillary has said once or even alluded too) would make you seem pretty out of touch with the lives of your every day American. Honestly it would be akin to saying something like "my wife drives a couple of Cadillacs." It's a bit elitest, even if a "reasonable" explanation is created. The rest of us don't have the luxury of not typing our own emails.

But really this whole discussion has been a discussion in theory since it's not something Clinton actually said.

I actually don't care one way or the other, I've given up the dream that those serious contenders running for the office of president have any idea what it's like to actually live like the rest of us in this country a long time ago. I'm much more interested in the mishandling of emails and the private server issue (granted I must not be too interested since I stopped following it).

[Zarathud]

By the dawn of the internet age (the Clinton administration), Hillary has been surrounded by other people to do her bidding. If you have learned to write or compose in your head, it is MUCH faster to dictate and review correspondence because you can focus on the message rather than typing the words. It also gains you some distance in reviewing.

If I didn't share a secretary with several other lawyers, I would be better at dictating. It really does improve an executive's efficiency at the cost of additional time/staffing to respond. That's a rational choice for Hillary as an executive to make. You don't hire a President for their typing skills.

[Jaymann]

In our office, back before we had a computer on every desk, we had a whole clerical department, and you had to hand them hand-written drafts to type for you on some Wang-based POS. And every time you had to make a correction, you had to bring it back. Plus they would play games with who got priority. Part of the reason this system stayed in place too long was that the boss was completely computer illiterate. It was liberating when we finally got our own work stations (and the clerical department was eliminated).

[Chrisoc13]

By the dawn of the internet age (the Clinton administration), Hillary has been surrounded by other people to do her bidding. If you have learned to write or compose in your head, it is MUCH faster to dictate and review correspondence because you can focus on the message rather than typing the words. It also gains you some distance in reviewing.

If I didn't share a secretary with several other lawyers, I would be better at dictating. It really does improve an executive's efficiency at the cost of additional time/staffing to respond. That's a rational choice for Hillary as an executive to make. You don't hire a President for their typing skills.

But I think it's pretty easy to see how that could be defined as out of touch with the citizens of this country. It means she isn't one of us.