How is your career going?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:26 pm

I was given an actual office on Friday as part of the personnel shuffling that occurred near year's end. They're still stringing me along with regard to the actual manager title promotion.

Given that my inbound commute took me 95 minutes, and there's a credit union that's actually located within my county that has my exact position posted, I'll be applying for that when I get home. The Chief doesn't like people working from home, but my blood pressure can't take too many days where I spend 2+ hours on the road every day without some additional consideration.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:41 am

Overslept, took a while to get ready, commute took me just under an hour.

Interview is tomorrow afternoon.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:44 pm

My resignation letter.

After spending 8 years in a job I told myself I could do for 3, I finally have an exit.
Just accepted a new job at a firm for better pay, better benefits and an unbeatable commute.
15 minute WALK (no exaggeration).

So, Hentzau (and Seppe if you're listening), if you see me in your office after the end of the month,
call security as I'm no longer allowed to be there.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:53 pm

Congrats!

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:57 pm

Archinerd wrote:
My resignation letter.

After spending 8 years in a job I told myself I could do for 3, I finally have an exit.
Just accepted a new job at a firm for better pay, better benefits and an unbeatable commute.
15 minute WALK (no exaggeration).

So, Hentzau (and Seppe if you're listening), if you see me in your office after the end of the month,
call security as I'm no longer allowed to be there.

Dammit! Where am I going to get my gossip from now?!?!

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:26 pm

Congrats! Now you'll be rid of all those asshole co-workers you're forever railing about.

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:30 pm

Woo hoo! Congrats on movin' on up! I'm not much farther than that from my home (it's a 7 minute bike ride home for lunch), and it's glorious.

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:48 am

If all goes well today and tomorrow I will be free of one business, and only have two left to worry about. I'm looking forward to catching up on my sleep. My mom with be so happy that I have more time to dedicate to her, if I tell her.

Post by **FishPants** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:51 am

I've completed a series of interviews, and am waiting to hear the final decision this week on a new job. Cuts my commute in half, a more senior title that gets me closer to where I want to be for my "end game" of career (CISO at a bank with a pension). I've got a good feeling I'll get an offer, I've got a bad feeling that the comp won't match what I'm making here. I believe the term is "Velvet rut", but this is a rut I need to bounce out of -- it's a circus here now, and it's high time I pulled up stakes and got a bit closer to home (1 hour each way commute vs 2 hour commute each way is worth a fair bit.. I'm just not telling the HR team that).

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:23 pm

Counter offer incoming... any advice?

The plan is to tell them I'd like to think it over and give them an answer tomorrow. I've already made up my mind though.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:26 pm

Archinerd wrote:Counter offer incoming... any advice?

Never under any circumstances take a counter offer; I actually find the idea of them insulting. If I wasn't worth it before (particularly after asking for more money, job duties, support with training, etc... prior to giving your resignation) why is it that when I tell you I'm leaving suddenly I'm a worthwhile investment. If you take their counter offer, you'll never have leverage again. Be polite. Take a day to "think about it". Tell them, "No thanks." That's my feeling, anyway.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:47 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Archinerd wrote:Counter offer incoming... any advice?
Never under any circumstances take a counter offer; I actually find the idea of them insulting. If I wasn't worth it before (particularly after asking for more money, job duties, support with training, etc... prior to giving your resignation) why is it that when I tell you I'm leaving suddenly I'm a worthwhile investment. If you take their counter offer, you'll never have leverage again. Be polite. Take a day to "think about it". Tell them, "No thanks." That's my feeling, anyway.

Thanks, exactly my thoughts.

PLW · Post by **PLW** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:59 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Archinerd wrote:Counter offer incoming... any advice?
Never under any circumstances take a counter offer; I actually find the idea of them insulting. If I wasn't worth it before (particularly after asking for more money, job duties, support with training, etc... prior to giving your resignation) why is it that when I tell you I'm leaving suddenly I'm a worthwhile investment. If you take their counter offer, you'll never have leverage again. Be polite. Take a day to "think about it". Tell them, "No thanks." That's my feeling, anyway.

Not true in my industry, where large salary increases are nearly always triggered by outside offers.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:06 pm

In the public sector my only major salary increases came from switching jobs. I think about 50% of the time I was counter-offered by my employers to stay with them instead of leaving for higher salary. Not once did I take it. If the only time you're worth more money is when you're threatening to leave, your employer doesn't think very highly of you.

geezer · Post by **geezer** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:08 pm

One of my consulting clients just had an awesome "proof of concept" product launch - we secured almost 6 months of operating expenses with a one-off contract which has now been fulfilled, which is awesome and I'm hopefully about to get my initial cash investment back.

On the not so awesome side is the fact that I just a month ago released half my minority ownership share to bring in a small round of funding, but oh well - the combined team is stronger for it for sure.

On the "undetermined if awesome or not" side is that fact that I'm probably looking at a 6-12 month unpaid (but close to full time) stint as Chief Marketing Officer and de facto technology director, which means 6-12 months of 50-80 hour workweeks and significant weekend commitments.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:20 pm

Smoove_B wrote:In the public sector my only major salary increases came from switching jobs. I think about 50% of the time I was counter-offered by my employers to stay with them instead of leaving for higher salary. Not once did I take it. If the only time you're worth more money is when you're threatening to leave, your employer doesn't think very highly of you.

I did get a nice raise last year.

This isn't about money this time though.
They would have to double what I make now for me to even consider staying... and I still don't think I would.
That amount of money wouldn't change my life as much as switching jobs would.

Zenn7 · Post by **Zenn7** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:26 pm

PLW wrote:
Smoove_B wrote:
Archinerd wrote:Counter offer incoming... any advice?
Never under any circumstances take a counter offer; I actually find the idea of them insulting. If I wasn't worth it before (particularly after asking for more money, job duties, support with training, etc... prior to giving your resignation) why is it that when I tell you I'm leaving suddenly I'm a worthwhile investment. If you take their counter offer, you'll never have leverage again. Be polite. Take a day to "think about it". Tell them, "No thanks." That's my feeling, anyway.
Not true in my industry, where large salary increases are nearly always triggered by outside offers.

Isn't this generally true? You usually get the best raise by either switching jobs, or taking a counter-offer when you are about to switch jobs? My experience in the corporate IT world anyway.

I got a B.S. degree in CIS. Did helpdesk for stores for a national retail chain (that is now out of business) for first few years. Then I moved to my current job I've had for over a decade now. Custom data delivery (the portion of the company I work for sells data - either lists of people or enhancements to other companies in-house databases). Our system can only do so many different things (it can do a lot more now than when I started), but you always have people who want something outside the box. My team makes that happen. Doing custom cutbacks, file reformatting, converting fields to different values, making new fields, etc.

I keep getting asked what I'd like to do, where I'd like to go with my career in my company (it's a focus for our goals/reviews and doing a mentoring thing where my mentor is advising me to figure this out). Don't want management. Leery of a more developer oriented role - several of our developers (though definitely not all of them) work like 60 hours is the base week and frequently exceed that significantly (40 is the stated expected standard and I average about 44-46, and have exceeded 60 when the need was there - don't mind doing it for special projects/needs - but don't want to do it most/all the time). Salaried/no overtime positions (though sometimes if you are working on the right things, have gotten bonuses, and it the extra work is often reflected in your review - which is what your annual raise is based off - they have X dollars, you are not going to get some mega-huge difference, but could be a 1-3% difference). Plus my current work focuses on a variety of short term projects. The development work generally seems to entail narrower scope with deep, long-term focus. Honestly, although I'd rather win the millions and start my new career of managing my own money (just basics/high-level, really being a retired bum, free to do whatever I want), but if I have to work (and since I like having a steady paycheck, roof over my head, food on the table, etc - I do have to work), I rather like the work that I do. The technical portions are enjoyable, often challenging, frequently get to learn new things (a lot if it is in-house application stuff, but still, I enjoy learning new things and working through the processes).

Short of winning the lotto, can't ever see myself leaving voluntarily (can't see a significant pay/benefits difference if I were to switch companies doing the same thing), so the fear would be getting let go some day. No great fear of that happening anytime soon (which is good since I think I could find another IT job eventually, I suspect it would involve a significant pay cut, and may not be as enjoyable).

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:51 pm

Archinerd wrote:
Smoove_B wrote:
Archinerd wrote:Counter offer incoming... any advice?
Never under any circumstances take a counter offer; I actually find the idea of them insulting. If I wasn't worth it before (particularly after asking for more money, job duties, support with training, etc... prior to giving your resignation) why is it that when I tell you I'm leaving suddenly I'm a worthwhile investment. If you take their counter offer, you'll never have leverage again. Be polite. Take a day to "think about it". Tell them, "No thanks." That's my feeling, anyway.
Thanks, exactly my thoughts.

My Big Company once hired an Important Engineer from a Local Start-Up. A month later the start-up reached out to me to try to bring me on board, as I did the same type of work as the Important Engineer and they were desperate. (Clearly.) I took the offer to my Big Company and they came back to me with a counter-offer. No change in job title, responsibilities, or salary, but they'd cut me a check for $15k if I'd stick around. I lost a lot of sleep over the next few nights before I told the Local Start-Up that they were just too precarious for me to feel responsible to my family by jumping ship.

Fast forward six months. My Big Company got purchased by an Even Bigger Company (rather unexpectedly) and the CEO of the Even Bigger Company made statements like "We're not acquiring them for their talent, we simply want their market share." It was a low point for what had been a pretty swanky job. So this time I reached out the the Local Start-Up and asked if they were still trying to fill the job role they had inquired about earlier? Turns out they were and that I was deemed a really good fit for the position. It took a few weeks to go through the interview process and get hired on. But in the process I owed my former Big Company a check for $15k (as they one they gave me came with strings attached -- I couldn't leave that company for 2 years). Fortunately that amounted to my negotiations with the Local Start-Up as they offered to cover it for me (and made no adjustments to the offer I had on the table earlier that year).

I never expected Big Company to be in an even more precarious situation as the Local Start-Up, but that's how it worked out. But it wasn't that much more precarious, as Local Start-Up was out of business within 11 months. But I did get a nice cash infusion a la the counter-offer bonus check and the extreme salary bump which came with the job hop, and I made great contacts within the industry for when it came time to extend my career.

Still, I wouldn't tend to take seriously a Moderate Counter Proposal from a Current Employer (especially if New Job Possibility comes with lots of benefits and perks).

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:22 am

So recently the hospital I worked for was taken over by a large Corporate hospital system. I was worried about my job, but was assured by the local leadership I was valued, blah blah blah.

Anyway, this past December I was offered a change in venue from my HIS manager job to an IT Manager, Applications job. A large pay increase, and while a decrease in my total direct reports, I was going to have real responsibility to make change and help with the overall direction of the hospital. I was also assured that the position would allow me to work with the new corporate overlords and help to find a place for the future. So in January the CIO(the corporate one, not my local hospital one) came out and assigned me a new boss and took all but 2 of my reports away, and still made mt responsible for all the systems here at the hospital, but no staff to do the job, except for all the staff that I used to have that now had new bosses, and I was only a dotted line too. <sigh>

So my new boss at our first meeting told me that the two people that I still had as staff would be moved to a different manager, but I could keep them for now. <double sigh>

Well, I borked my resume, since I had just taken a new position, so it makes me look like I keep jumping jobs, even though I have been here for over 5 years.

So I have been applying for other positions, and while I have a decent resume, and all kinds of education, I was only getting rejection letters. Well I actually got pissed off a few weeks ago and really started to put effort into my resume and cover letter, instead of just sending out generic ones and hoping that my qualifications would get me an interview. Hell, I even used my veteran connections and that did not help.

But with my change, I am starting to get interview requests. So it is nice to actually feel like people like my body of work. I have two big ones coming up, and while they are steps back, They are Sr. Analysts positions, instead of management, I am actually excited for the challenge of working my way back up into management in a different industry. Neither position is in healthcare, so the last 10+ years of my life mastering healthcare will translate a little bit into other fields, but the knowledge of medical stuff will not. <shrug>

So nothing really to say, other than to get it off my chest that work sucks lately.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:38 am

Smoove_B wrote:Never under any circumstances take a counter offer;

Never under any circumstances use the word never.

There are plenty of times when it makes sense to take a counter-offer. Negotiations with your employer are *never* about what you are worth. Your employer would like to pay you the least amount they think they can to achieve their objective. You would like your employer to pay you the most amount you think they will pay you to achieve their objective. Those scales will never be tilted in your favor unless you have leverage.

Now - while I can understand that some people will feel that needing leverage automatically means they don't want to work for that employer - and that's their choice. In other words, I can understand why YOU might never take a counter-offer. I would just be very careful offering that as universal advice.

I've accepted three counter-offers and rejected one other, based on the circumstances. And the one that I rejected was RIDICULOUS ($100 per hour to work from home, back in 2000). I understood with that one that the offer was meant to force me into providing the real reason that I was leaving, which had nothing to do with money (although that didn't hurt as Intel was offering about a 25% raise at the time). Had I accepted the counter-offer, I knew that it was a ticking time bomb until they replaced me. My boss wanted me to acknowledge that I was leaving because I could no longer work with one of the other managers. While that person was a peer on the org chart (to me, both working under the same boss), he was a close personal friend of the owner, which made him untouchable, even to our mutual boss (the Director of Engineering).

Within 6 months, 22 of their 28 engineers quit. 21 of them named that asshole as the reason they were leaving. The 22nd was that asshole.

For the three counter-offers I accepted, getting an offer from another employer was the only way to effectively set my market value to the point that I wanted. There is no way my current employer could justify the raise any other way. The first raise I wanted was 30% after 6 months, to address an issue caused by the VP of HR using a ridiculous low-balling salary survey to set the initial salary for new hires. The only way to manage that was to have an offer from another company for the amount I was asking for, and a willingness on my part to take it. When I left on my 4-year anniversary with the company (of my own choice), accepting counter-offers had raised my salary to 215% of what I was hired at.

Never say never.

Binktopia · Post by **Binktopia** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:44 pm

Wow! Runningmn9, you know how to play that game well! Good for you! It takes balls to stand up for yourself too. Which a lot of people prefer to not have conflict in their life (me included). How did you come the the realization that you need leverage to get pay increases?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:44 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:Never say never.

I should probably say never* then. With the * reflecting how you feel about your current employer. If I liked my employer and the people I worked with but they wouldn't adequately compensate me after I've petitioned them to do so, using an counter-offer to get more money might work. However it will probably also damage our working relationship. Maybe a little, maybe a whole bunch. I still do not think I would ever take a counter offer from a current employer if I had long term career aspirations with them. As a way to better position myself for future jobs elsewhere? Maybe. But I'd need to feel rather confident about an exit strategy.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:02 pm

Binktopia wrote:Wow! Runningmn9, you know how to play that game well! Good for you! It takes balls to stand up for yourself too. Which a lot of people prefer to not have conflict in their life (me included). How did you come the the realization that you need leverage to get pay increases?

I heard he was inspired by John Travolta in Battlefield Earth

I suppose accepting a counter offer would depend on how I got there. Where I work now, they have done market surveys to determine my worth and given me raises to keep me in the top 20% of my market value.... They then fired the person who was in charge of getting me all of my raises because she was that the guy from that Staples commercial "Love Drama?" She was not afraid to tell anyone in the company "That's a stupid idea" and it finally caught up to her.

Up until about two years ago, I would have accepted a counter offer because I could put all my card on the table without fear. Now the work environment is too fragile and the work load too extreme.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:43 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:
Smoove_B wrote:Never under any circumstances take a counter offer;
Never under any circumstances use the word never.

I wouldn't say never, but I've yet to feel like I'd want to take a counter-offer. My last employer called me after I quit (he was on vacation and the general manager got my letter) and wanted to know what it would take to get me to stay. I told him it was time for me to move on, and it wasn't about money. It wasn't specifically about money, but the guy cut corners everywhere on cost - especially his staff. It was pulling teeth with wet noodles to move up from whatever rate you were hired at. I was hired low and jumped my job up quite a bit, but he never felt compelled to have the salary match. At the end they were trying to make me a manager-level employee with junior-level pay. I was burned out on dealing with him and feeling very abused pay-wise.

I gave myself a 10% raise when I left and should have gone higher, but the chance to break free was too tempting and I didn't really know how to play the game. I've done more research on it now and I'm looking to have my next employer line up my pay with reality when they bring me on.

I do like the company I work for, though - the president is probably the most decent and down-to-earth owner I'll ever see and the commute is hard to beat ... it's just that this place has the issue of work fluctuations that push the company through layoff and hiring phases every few years. I don't know how long the IT Guy can survive a really lean streak. If I do find a good paying job and this one counter-offers to match, I'm sorely tempted to take it - wouldn't that be a sign that they intend to keep my position on for the long haul?

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:08 pm

Binktopia wrote:How did you come the the realization that you need leverage to get pay increases?

Well, just an honest analysis of the situation. When I was coming out of college, I needed a job pronto (I was getting married less than three months after graduation). I had no leverage. As a result, when this company made their offer, I took it. I started at the same time as a friend of mine though, except he started in the tech support department, and I started directly in engineering as a developer. After about six months, I realized that what they were paying me was bullshit, and that it was based on a salary survey that the VP of HR used, which had a grand total of two people who fit the criteria she used to determine the salary for new hires. So I went to my boss (the Engineering Manager) and explained the situation.

He talked to his boss (the VP of Engineering), and his decision was to give me a 30% raise, which would bring me in line with what the entry salary should have been if it was competitive, so he sent me a new signed offer letter which I signed and accepted. A few days later I got a call from the VP of HR telling me that no raise would be given, which sent me back to the VP of Engineering. He talked to the VP of HR, and she agreed to the raise. Two days later she called me up to tell me that she thought more about it, and she was denying the raise. I emailed the VP of Engineering, pointing out that I had a signed offer letter with the new salary. About 30 seconds after I hit send, I got a call from the President of the Company asking me to come talk to him. I explained the situation to him, and he explained that what I was asking for was insane.

We compromised and they gave me half of the raise then, and the rest of the raise on my 1-year anniversary date. The only reason that happened was because the VP of Engineering fuct up and gave me a signed letter with the new salary offer, which gave me leverage.

In subsequent years, each year around my anniversary, I went and found a new job. And so each review ended with me letting them know about that offer, and them matching it. Had they not matched it, I would have taken the other offer. The same company offered me a job three separate times, with each offer escalating. I did feel bad about that at least.

The last one though, the really presented a great offer, but it was two days after Intel gave me an even better offer, so they lost again. We lost touch after that.

All negotiations are about leverage, and most of the time they aren't personal. But at no point in time did I ever think that my employer would magically pay me my real value if they didn't have to. Luckily though, this got me to a point where my salary matched what I felt that I was worth, and so it's not something I ever worry about.

With my current job, I provided my boss with my education and years of experience, he plugged it into some magical formula that he has, and it popped out the exact salary that I was making at the time (within $100 for the year), so I'm pretty confident that my personal sense of worth matches my actual worth. Which is handy.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:32 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:I provided my boss with my education and years of experience, he plugged it into some magical formula that he has, and it popped out the exact salary that I was making at the time

I would early like to see that.

I'm at a point where I need to start doing what you've done and move my pay up through job offers. I really don't expect it to move by itself. My last boss (before she quit) agreed that my duties where I am had grown quite a bit since they hired me and was willing to bring my salary into alignment once the raise freeze was off (due to a lack of new projects). She's gone now and I doubt anyone will honor it.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:39 pm

Paingod wrote:I'm at a point where I need to start doing what you've done and move my pay up through job offers. I really don't expect it to move by itself. My last boss (before she quit) agreed that my duties where I am had grown quite a bit since they hired me and was willing to bring my salary into alignment once the raise freeze was off (due to a lack of new projects). She's gone now and I doubt anyone will honor it.

The problem is that generally, you aren't going to get a large raise at your current employer without some event to force it. Sometimes that's a promotion (where they are reasonable and bump your salary), sometimes it's because they don't want to lose you, and you've demonstrated your actual market value (so there's no guesswork for them).

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:42 pm

Paingod wrote: I would early like to see that.

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:02 pm

Many years ago, I was in-house for a company in NYC. I was miserable and planned on leaving. In the weeks leading up to a multi-billion dollar deal, I told them I was leaving. Some good people I worked with had all quit or been fired (including my boss and his boss) and I was one of the few remaining that knew enough to get the deals through without problems. We negotiated over double my existing salary. The owner-billionaire never called me by name again. I was always "tough guy" (said sarcastically). I did the deal and left 6 months later anyway. So never say never, again

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:04 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Paingod wrote: I would early like to see that.

I have no idea what he's doing but it involves a slide rule and tea leaves. All I know is that it was accurate as all get out (in my industry, which is software engineering in the defense industry).

Speaking of which, I just spent the last week in a class learning about the fundamentals of artillery. We have a terrifying array of ways to kill things from above.

Binktopia · Post by **Binktopia** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:57 pm

RM9, that is a crazy story. Also aligns with what I hear about HR, they meddle. Most people I talk to think HR should be about paperwork, and keeping abreast on not get sued. Some even think they should stay out of hiring completely, that it is up to the hiring manager to deal with that. And if your department has a budget, and you make a compelling case to your boss for a raise, and agrees, why should HR have any say in it? If the finacies aren't there, then the penny pincers can tell your boss that they can't afford or won't send em money for a raise. But, why should HR have a say in that? Just what I hear.

Also in a good way that whole experience taught you the power of leverage or at least confirmed it to you. I know people who have no idea how to get raises, and wonder why they keep getting screwed over. Well, get some leverage if you can. Now I know! (Still need to get a full time job first)

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:10 pm

Binktopia wrote: But, why should HR have a say in that?

Make no mistake - HR doesn't care about employees; HR exists to protect the company. The sooner you learn that, the better off you'll be. Woe unto the worker that believes the guy or girl working in HR is their buddy.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:24 pm

Well, that was an easy counter offer to reject.
It was less than what new employer is offering.
I feel even more confident I'm making the right choice.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:25 pm

Yeah, and HR looks at all pay across that position for the entire company and makes sure that there is no inconsistencies in case they get sued, they can prove that everyone is being paid based on experience and not gender or race.

So that is why HR get's involved in the wage area.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:38 pm

I assume her concern was precedent, and because it made her look bad since she came up with the original starting salary. The company was not particularly well run, and apparently she had veto power. That the VP of Engineering didn't have budget authority over his staff surprised me too. He didn't last long though (he quit not long after that, and the President was deposed not long after that either).

And while the company pretty much went down the tubes after that, they did have one shining moment. In Nov of 99, their stock was sitting at around $2.50 per share. We all had thousands of stock options but the strike price was around $5 so we couldn't exercise them. The day before thanksgiving they issued a harmless press release, but for some reason the stock started to take off. By the close of the day, the price was at $13. I couldn't get the brokerage account opened fast enough to do the sale. I was sad because we knew it was nonsense. The asshole above punched out at like $12 and lorded it over me and a friend, like the asshole he was.

The day after Thanksgiving, the stock was trading at $30 in the pre-market. At the open it just started climbing. I was on the phone with the broker at $40 and climbing. We decided to wait a few more minutes. And then I lost cell service (don't ask me why I was on a cell phone for what should have been a life-changing even though). About 8 minutes later, as soon as one bar returned the phone rang. It was the broker, and I could tell by her voice it was bad news. When we were on the phone 8 minutes earlier, it was trading faster than her screen was updating. It had already peaked at $56 and was on its way crashing back to earth. I managed to punch out at $32, which was great. But not as great as it was Monday morning when I ran into the asshole in the hallway.

Binktopia · Post by **Binktopia** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:50 pm

RMC wrote:Yeah, and HR looks at all pay across that position for the entire company and makes sure that there is no inconsistencies in case they get sued, they can prove that everyone is being paid based on experience and not gender or race.

So that is why HR get's involved in the wage area.

So HR's job is to basically cover the companies behind, and worry of what MIGHT go wrong at every turn. Sounds like they don't trust the company or the workers.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:11 am

So here is a question. I have an interview coming up, and the question I am sure that will be asked is: "Why are you leaving your current employer?"

So I know I can't be honest and say that I hate the new culture that I am in, and the environment sucks.

But, can I say something about the fact that the future of my position is limited, as I am helping to convert existing systems over to the new systems and once that is done, I am not sure where my future with the company would be. That just seems too much like me saying, I suck at my job, so they will never keep me once I finish this work and want to leave before then.

Or since I would be leaving healthcare in this instance, say something about how I am looking for a challenge outside of healthcare, as there are many changes going on in the healthcare industry and it is very volatile currently. And I really want to be able to focus on the challenges of X job, and be focused on my work and not worry so much about the new legal environment.

The job I am interviewing for is a step back, so I am sure they will wonder why I am going from a Manager job to a Sr. Analyst role. But I would be going to an international manufacturing company in the food industry. I talked with an employee at this company and they have "Summer Hours", where from Memorial day to Mid Aug, everyone takes a 1/2 day on Friday and gets paid for a full day. They offer bonuses, promote from within, and allow flex time, etc.. I am salary, so I am sure that I would still work my 40+ hours even with a 1/2 day off, but it would be nice to have that kind of company that cares about the family.

Anyway, anyone have any good ways to talk about why you are looking for a new job?

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:27 am

I would think you HAVE to talk about the merger to explain the change. If you talk about how you feel a need to step away from management after seeing the politics of a merger, that explains the career change. Just don't focus on the negatives of your employer, but instead that you wanted to be productive on projects rather than defending turf. An interviewer should "get" that motivation as a net benefit to their firm.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:39 am

RMC wrote:Anyway, anyone have any good ways to talk about why you are looking for a new job?

My current project is wrapping up and nothing challenging is on the horizon. While they haven't told me I wouldn't be needed after this is complete, I really don't want to wait around and find out that they don't.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:05 pm

RMC wrote:So I know I can't be honest and say that I hate the new culture that I am in, and the environment sucks.

Why not? Those are perfectly acceptable reasons for you to look for a new job.

Also, keep in mind the earlier notes on leverage. Right now, you have all of it, and you must not forget that. You already have a job. You want a new job. You don't NEED a new job (at least not yet). So the reality of the situation isn't that you have an interview coming up. The reality is that this company has an interview coming up. You are interviewing them to see if you want to work there.

You aren't there to answer their questions or conform to what they are looking for. You are there to get your questions answered and to see if they conform to what you are looking for. And a big part of that is understanding why you are looking to leave your current job and what you hope to find at your next job (which if THEY are lucky, will be them). If you ask your questions honestly, to find out if this is where you want to go next, and you find out that it's not - then what do you care if they get their questions answered "correctly"?

Finding a job when you have a job should be the most stress free experience imaginable, because you have all the power. When you don't have a job, that's when you have to worry about getting *a* job rather than getting *the* job. Right now you have the opportunity to find *the* job. Make sure you ask the questions you need to ask to figure out if this place is good enough to get your services.

RMC wrote:it would be nice to have that kind of company that cares about the family.

If it's a small company with an owner that knows the employees personally - then there is a *chance* that their care is genuine. If not, there's almost no chance that they actually care about the family, beyond the fact that they know that appearing to care allows them to get more productivity and loyalty from their employees.