How is your career going?

[Matrix]

In subsequent years, each year around my anniversary, I went and found a new job. And so each review ended with me letting them know about that offer, and them matching it. Had they not matched it, I would have taken the other offer. The same company offered me a job three separate times, with each offer escalating. I did feel bad about that at least.

The last one though, the really presented a great offer, but it was two days after Intel gave me an even better offer, so they lost again. We lost touch after that.

All negotiations are about leverage, and most of the time they aren't personal. But at no point in time did I ever think that my employer would magically pay me my real value if they didn't have to. Luckily though, this got me to a point where my salary matched what I felt that I was worth, and so it's not something I ever worry about.

With my current job, I provided my boss with my education and years of experience, he plugged it into some magical formula that he has, and it popped out the exact salary that I was making at the time (within $100 for the year), so I'm pretty confident that my personal sense of worth matches my actual worth. Which is handy.

Damn, thats what i call a hustler!! Nice, very impressive. And great tips for everyone else. Including me if i ever look for work in the future.

[RunningMn9]

Even when I got laid off, the interview that I got through a friend happened so quickly (6 days I think) that I didn't have time to feel desperate. When it came time to discuss salary, I just told them that I never answer that question and I never negotiate. You tell me what you think I'm worth, and if I agree I'll take the job. If I don't then I won't. They get one chance. In this case though I said that I normally take that position when I have a job already. At the moment I had no job, but I knew what it would have taken to get me to leave my previous job (if I still had it), and that was my previous salary plus about 6%. They were cool with that so it all worked out.

But that was something of a special case. I was going to work for a contracting firm that did DoD work, and the DoD was telling them to hire me specifically, so I had some leverage there too, plus they didn't particularly care since the govt was going to be paying them my salary + a cut on top.

I really lucked out there, but the company was not what I was looking for, and thankfully my new boss saved me from there. He is the best boss I've ever worked for. The pay is competitive, he pays all of our health insurance premiums, and he does genuinely care about his employees and their families, routinely going above and beyond for them even when they don't know it. And he makes us take time off to play golf. You can't beat that.

[RLMullen]

Also, keep in mind the earlier notes on leverage. Right now, you have all of it, and you must not forget that. You already have a job. You want a new job. You don't NEED a new job (at least not yet). So the reality of the situation isn't that you have an interview coming up. The reality is that this company has an interview coming up. You are interviewing them to see if you want to work there.

You aren't there to answer their questions or conform to what they are looking for. You are there to get your questions answered and to see if they conform to what you are looking for. And a big part of that is understanding why you are looking to leave your current job and what you hope to find at your next job (which if THEY are lucky, will be them). If you ask your questions honestly, to find out if this is where you want to go next, and you find out that it's not - then what do you care if they get their questions answered "correctly"?

Finding a job when you have a job should be the most stress free experience imaginable, because you have all the power. When you don't have a job, that's when you have to worry about getting *a* job rather than getting *the* job. Right now you have the opportunity to find *the* job. Make sure you ask the questions you need to ask to figure out if this place is good enough to get your services.

In the nearly 11 year history of OO there have never been truer words posted on this board!!

[RLMullen]

So here is a question. I have an interview coming up, and the question I am sure that will be asked is: "Why are you leaving your current employer?"

So I know I can't be honest and say that I hate the new culture that I am in, and the environment sucks.

You answer the question honestly. Briefly explain that the merger caused major organizational changes that moved many centers of responsibility to corporate. That has resulted in limited opportunities for professional growth at the local level. Tell them that you are satisfied with your current assignment, but you have no intention of letting your skills atrophy.

With this type of explanation you have answered the question honestly, you've avoided trap of speaking negatively about your current employer, and you've begun establishing the parameters of what YOU expect from your next employer. This explanation also provides a nice segue for you to ask questions about the position under discussion and growth potential within their company. Since this question will typically happen early in the interview your counter questions establish the proper tone that the interview will be a conversation and not a test.

[RMC]

So here is a question. I have an interview coming up, and the question I am sure that will be asked is: "Why are you leaving your current employer?"

So I know I can't be honest and say that I hate the new culture that I am in, and the environment sucks.

You answer the question honestly. Briefly explain that the merger caused major organizational changes that moved many centers of responsibility to corporate. That has resulted in limited opportunities for professional growth at the local level. Tell them that you are satisfied with your current assignment, but you have no intention of letting your skills atrophy.

With this type of explanation you have answered the question honestly, you've avoided trap of speaking negatively about your current employer, and you've begun establishing the parameters of what YOU expect from your next employer. This explanation also provides a nice segue for you to ask questions about the position under discussion and growth potential within their company. Since this question will typically happen early in the interview your counter questions establish the proper tone that the interview will be a conversation and not a test.

Nice. I do like that, as well as the other statements.

About pay, I have accepted counter offers in the past, and been burned by them. I usually just go to my boss if I feel I am under paid and ask for a raise. If they tell me no, I move on.

I also, would never take a job just because. I am looking to move from non profit healthcare to for profit industry, so my pay might be close to the same...

[Zarathud]

You're more likely to be comfortable and come across as confident during an interview when you already have a job. Employers who can entice you away from another job think that you're more capable and motivated to stay -- and thus more desirable.

[em2nought]

The grass grows, but it does not call to me anymore. 1/3rd retired! I've escaped after four years without ever having to deal with a hurricane. El nino or is it La nina is changing, so odds are good for this year I bet. My last day was the wettest I've ever been on that job.

[RMC]

So the phone interview was not actually with HR, it was with one of the IT Managers. The interview was a lot like a conversation, and the guy was very cool. Found out he also has three girls, almost the same ages as my girls, so that was a little strange, but it certainly gave us a point to talk about.

Also, he must be a fairly new manager, as when I asked when they would be getting in contact with me, he basically said if they did not contact me by Wednesday to email him and he would find out what was going on.... HR's can be difficult at best, so I hate to see him put his neck out like that for an interview candidate.

Also, it is funny, as I think that they have a different position in mind for me instead of the one I applied for. When I asked him if I would be reporting to him(if I was offered the position), he basically told me that there are a lot of positions that they are filling, and that the IT managers would work with HR to find the best fit for me in their company.

So just for a point of reference, this is an international company that is in Orville, Ohio. They are famous for Jams and Jellies, even though they have a ton of other products they sell. So it's not a mom and pop shop like I might have given the impression of before.

[RunningMn9]

Also, he must be a fairly new manager, as when I asked when they would be getting in contact with me, he basically said if they did not contact me by Wednesday to email him and he would find out what was going on.... HR's can be difficult at best, so I hate to see him put his neck out like that for an interview candidate.

Stop being so damn polite. If they don't contact you by Wednesday, email him and don't give it a second thought.

Assuming you want the job of course.

When I started here, I had to wait for the glacial pace of the federal government to complete the paperwork. As the months ticked by and my severance pay (and health insurance) was wasting away, I started to get nervous. After four weeks of being told "next week" by the contracting company that was hiring me, I emailed the govt contact that wanted me hired. I got a call 5 minutes later telling me that I could start the next morning.

Of course, the next morning, I got a call from their corporate headquarters, at 5 AM, actually yelling at me for emailing the govt contact, and that under no circumstances could I come in that day without the contract paperwork signed. I was livid, and had I not left my cell phone upstairs for the rest of the day, I wouldn't be working here (I had gotten a call from another company that afternoon to make me an offer, and I would have taken it without hesitation had I gotten the call). They called me back at 6 PM and said everything was handled and I could start the next day. I agreed, and that's when I saw the missed call from the other job.

My point is that while even in the moment, everyone involved was pissed - it all worked out and no one cared in the long run. So if this guy told you to email him if there is any delay, email him if there is any delay (if that's the job you want).

[Jeff V]

The interview was a lot like a conversation, and the guy was very cool. Found out he also has three girls, almost the same ages as my girls, so that was a little strange, but it certainly gave us a point to talk about.

This sort of interview can be highly successful when you can get it. I suspect when it does happen, it's because the interviewer isn't particularly skilled in the art of interviewing job candidates. Early in my career, I got two consecutive jobs because the interviewer, like myself at the time, was a season ticket holder for the Lyric Opera. Very little about the actual job was discussed in both cases.

[Smoove_B]

Very little about the actual job was discussed in both cases.

Because sometimes the people skills are more important than the job skills. I'd argue that a good hiring manager's job isn't to try and ascertain a job skill set as much as it is to figure out if the person is a good fit for the team. YMMV with certain jobs that require highly technical or specific knowledge. However, even if a person has those technical skills locked down but the personality of a wet fish, hiring them might not make sense.

[Isgrimnur]

I beat out someone for my current job because one applicant would have been your standard cave programmer that needed pizza slid under his door at regular intervals. Given that we're a small organization, and I have to talk to upper muckety-mucks in a variety of departments, my hard-won social skills carried the day.

[RMC]

Also, he must be a fairly new manager, as when I asked when they would be getting in contact with me, he basically said if they did not contact me by Wednesday to email him and he would find out what was going on.... HR's can be difficult at best, so I hate to see him put his neck out like that for an interview candidate.

Stop being so damn polite. If they don't contact you by Wednesday, email him and don't give it a second thought.

Assuming you want the job of course.

When I started here, I had to wait for the glacial pace of the federal government to complete the paperwork. As the months ticked by and my severance pay (and health insurance) was wasting away, I started to get nervous. After four weeks of being told "next week" by the contracting company that was hiring me, I emailed the govt contact that wanted me hired. I got a call 5 minutes later telling me that I could start the next morning.

Of course, the next morning, I got a call from their corporate headquarters, at 5 AM, actually yelling at me for emailing the govt contact, and that under no circumstances could I come in that day without the contract paperwork signed. I was livid, and had I not left my cell phone upstairs for the rest of the day, I wouldn't be working here (I had gotten a call from another company that afternoon to make me an offer, and I would have taken it without hesitation had I gotten the call). They called me back at 6 PM and said everything was handled and I could start the next day. I agreed, and that's when I saw the missed call from the other job.

My point is that while even in the moment, everyone involved was pissed - it all worked out and no one cared in the long run. So if this guy told you to email him if there is any delay, email him if there is any delay (if that's the job you want).

I am always polite, but I drive a hard bargain. I make a very good wage, and while I don't follow your policy of threatening to leave to get a raise, I do get raises when they are warranted.
My main point to this was, I know that as a hiring manager that HR can sometimes be a pain to work with. I would never promise a call within 2 days to a candidate. And of course I will contact him on Wednesday night, Thursday morning if I do not receive any contact from the HR department.

Here is an example in my career where your tactics did not work. I was working for a medium sized bank in the operations center when I was finishing up my undergraduate degree. I had been given about 4 or 5 raises and several position increases in the 3 years that I had been there. However, I still felt I was under paid. I was offered a position at a different company, and told my boss for 5k a year I would stay, even thought the offer was for 8k more.

He refused on the grounds he could afford that in the current pay scale given by HR. He lost 3 more employees and I received a call from him asking for me to come back for the 5k I had asked for. I then countered with 10k more, as I had to quit a job I had just started. He gave me 8.5k more, so I got a little raise over what I was making at my 'new' job, and I lost nothing in time at the bank, since I was only gone less than 30 days.

However, in order to bring me back at that wage, HR was forced to change the pay scale, and everyone in the department was given raises for wage equality. I was told to never talk about my pay, yada yada. I worked a night shift on the mainframe, so who the heck was I going to talk too anyway. Well first shift had access to what our paychecks were, and someone peeked at mine in the first run after I got back. They found out, I was making less than them(due to the raises) but more than they used to make. So they got mad. And they talked. My boss accused me of telling them what I was making, and I was written up. I worked on nights from 8pm - 4am with people from 2nd shift and 3rd shift. No one on those shifts knew anything, only first shift had the information. But my boss took the sides of the 'employees' he could rely on to be there for the long term. (It's what he told me verbally when he wrote me up.)

<shrug> So it has always been my policy to not accept 'matches'. And as a manager, when an employee walks in and gives notice, I never offer a counter offer. Even when HR and my boss wanted me too, I didn't do it. If someone will not talk to me prior to quitting, then for some reason they don't feel that they can talk to me. That's bad in my book. I run an open office policy, and always tell all my staff that if you have a problem with anything, pay, benefits, vacation, anything.. To come and talk to me, and while I might not be able to change anything I will go to bat for you if I feel it is something that you need to stay a happy productive employee.

So I will continue to be polite, and think about the long range issues that your particular negotiating style can cause. I understand what you do, and it apparently works in your industry and for you. I applaud you for it, but I would never do that to my employers for a raise. I go and ask for one, and if they say no, then I go elsewhere. If I hate my job, like currently, I find a new one and go there. It's not to say I am a push over, as I never take the first offer from an employer, and have walked away from plenty of positions offered. Hell, once during an interview I stood up and told the interviewer that I was no longer interested and we could end the interview. (He was an ass, and I have no idea how anyone could work for him. If he was even half as bad to his staff as he was to me in the interview I wouldn't be surprised if most of his staff was looking for other jobs.)

Thanks for the insight though, it helps to see how others look for positions, and what they do. Not everyone has the same style, but it is always good to know what those other styles are.

[RMC]

Very little about the actual job was discussed in both cases.

Because sometimes the people skills are more important than the job skills. I'd argue that a good hiring manager's job isn't to try and ascertain a job skill set as much as it is to figure out if the person is a good fit for the team. YMMV with certain jobs that require highly technical or specific knowledge. However, even if a person has those technical skills locked down but the personality of a wet fish, hiring them might not make sense.

Yep, I have made my living by being able to talk to all levels of management and front line staff. I am a great go between, and can currently talk to clinicians and understand what they need, and talk to IT developers and let them know what the clinicians need, and find out what the developers can deliver.

I can also talk to the 'bean' counters and hold my own in most business settings.

The biggest thing about this opportunity is that it is a new industry for me. I have been in healthcare for the past 10 years, so going to a for profit company that sells products will be a large change. But I love change, and I love learning new things, so that should all be fun if an acceptable offer and position is found for me.

[Jeff V]

Very little about the actual job was discussed in both cases.

Because sometimes the people skills are more important than the job skills. I'd argue that a good hiring manager's job isn't to try and ascertain a job skill set as much as it is to figure out if the person is a good fit for the team. YMMV with certain jobs that require highly technical or specific knowledge. However, even if a person has those technical skills locked down but the personality of a wet fish, hiring them might not make sense.

Sometimes, yes, but not these times. One of the jobs was technical and required no people skills (the least of any job I ever had). The other was in a payroll department -- the manager himself lacked people skills (not the worst I've worked for, but still bad).

Now, when I was a hiring manager, I would focus on people skills for even techs because I felt I could teach anyone technical skills but I couldn't teach an introvert to be a people person. I hired my favorite bartender to a help desk position once and she barely knew how to turn on a computer (and it turned out to be one of the best hires I ever made). In her case, I had the job created for her and I was already familiar with her people skills. Others though I wanted something more demonstrative than a conversation about a common interest -- while it's good for bonding, it doesn't really tell you if that person can relate to those without something in common.

[RunningMn9]

I am always polite, but I drive a hard bargain. I make a very good wage, and while I don't follow your policy of threatening to leave to get a raise, I do get raises when they are warranted.

I've never threatened to leave to get a raise, FYI.

Tales from the Wasteland

I'm not sure what you think my tactics are, but I've never done what you described in this story. I've never approached my current boss and told them that I was leaving unless they gave me a specific raise. What I have done is always known what my market value was (through other job offers), which always gave me the leverage required during salary negotiations.

<shrug> So it has always been my policy to not accept 'matches'.

Everyone is free to have their own policy, informed by their own experiences. I was commenting on Smoove's advice to never accept a counter-offer, and I was just illustrating that such advice is not universal. Some times (and for some people), accepting a counter-offer makes a lot of sense.

And as a manager, when an employee walks in and gives notice, I never offer a counter offer. Even when HR and my boss wanted me too, I didn't do it.

Certainly that's an approach you can take as a manager. Again, the only time I ever walked in and gave notice to my boss, I refused to accept his outlandish counter-offer. I didn't threaten to quit any of the other times, although I was fully prepared to quit.

So I will continue to be polite, and think about the long range issues that your particular negotiating style can cause.

Of course you have to be polite. We aren't savages.

You don't appear to know my negotiating style, so perhaps the long term consequences are different than you imagine? There's a reason that I have never had any long-term issues (I left the first job on my own terms, and while the second job ended in layoffs after 10 years, that was after clearing 13 rounds of previous layoffs and at no point in time did I ever have to play hardball in salary negotiations with them - I was already making my market value when they hired me, and they maintained that throughout the 10 years I was there).

Hell, once during an interview I stood up and told the interviewer that I was no longer interested and we could end the interview. (He was an ass, and I have no idea how anyone could work for him. If he was even half as bad to his staff as he was to me in the interview I wouldn't be surprised if most of his staff was looking for other jobs.)

That's the mentality that I am talking about, that's all. I don't know what it is about my posts that you are reacting to, but I haven't done any of the things that you are referencing.

I see far too many people that will do anything to secure a job offer, even if they hate everything about the job and it makes them miserable. I know a guy here that's about 10 years older than me, who I worked with previously at Intel until he got laid off in round 8. He was out of work for about a year before finding a job here. When he took the job here, they asked him what salary he was looking for, and he answered the question based on what he thought they wanted to hear. They jumped at it, and he got the job. Which in context, wasn't a bad thing (he was desperate for a job and needed it badly). But for every moment after that, he's been miserable because he's dramatically underpaid, and he has no real way to change that. He started looking elsewhere (he happened to interview for the same job that I got offered on the day I was finally allowed to start here). When I interviewed there, the hiring manager let me know that his bosses were hoping to hire a junior developer (for cost reasons), but he had been having trouble finding junior developers that were willing to take this job because it wasn't "cool". He wanted to hire a senior developer that was really interested in it - which is exactly what I conveyed during the interview (at the time, I was very interested in taking a job where I could branch out into something more modern than the Windows and Linux device driver world I had spent the last 15 years in). So while this particular job wasn't "cool" to the kids, it was an opportunity for me to get C# and user-interface design on my resume in an official capacity. It filled in the last remaining gap in the software stack (everything from embedded development on hardware to cross-platform GUI development).

The problem was that he couldn't convince his boss to pay me (he had a good ballpark for where my salary would be). So he just asked me to wait if I could, and he would see if they changed their mind. Eventually they did, the afternoon before I started here. My point is that this other guy who interviewed there was hoping that he could get $X. $X was about 18% less than I was making here, but was 10% higher than he was making here, despite 10 additional years of experience.

He always epitomized to me someone that had no idea how to play the game, and who constantly made decisions without leverage. And he was constantly unhappy about it. But he still hasn't learned. Every time I run into him in the halls, he's bitching about it, even 5 years later.

At this point (and I believe we are in the same ballpark age- and career-wise in terms of length), the only real leverage you need is the ability and willingness to say "No". If you have the skill set, the experience and the ability to present it (and it sounds like you do), than the offers come and you have the freedom to accept or reject.

The only difference between us at this point may be that I never negotiate salary. I don't make demands, and I don't haggle. I expect the employer to make one offer that they are comfortable with. If I am comfortable with it, great. If not, then I say no and that's that. I have never gotten a low-ball offer once this has been made clear. My pitch to them is that I don't ever want to feel like I am forcing them to pay more than they think that I am worth. I want them to be comfortable with the number without any nonsense or feeling like they have to play games with me. IMO, it's always worked. I've never had to say no because the money wasn't right.

[RMC]

Ahh.. I apologize, I thought you got the job offers and then took them to your boss to prove your worth to secure a raise. You just wanted other offers to validate what others would pay, and then asked for it in compensation?

Actually I find it interesting how different people have different ways of approaching employment. I would never answer with what a company wants to hear when talking with the people in the department I am going to work for. But sometimes to get past HR it is good to have a canned response for things like, "Why are you looking to leave?"

A Lot of my skills are 'soft' people skills and while I have several degree's, they just get your resume on the table in my industries, no one is going to hire you(well anyone with a brain) because you have an MBA. They might not interview you if you don't have one, but will not hire you just because you have one.

So anyway, not upset or anything, just trying to explain why I was going the way I was, and it seems I misunderstood how you were using the other job offers.

And this is the quote I think I took out of context, I see now that this was in response to the 'never take a counter offer':

In subsequent years, each year around my anniversary, I went and found a new job. And so each review ended with me letting them know about that offer, and them matching it. Had they not matched it, I would have taken the other offer. The same company offered me a job three separate times, with each offer escalating. I did feel bad about that at least.

[Smoove_B]

To further my position, in over a decade of working in the public sector, I had exactly one review. And I'm pretty sure the review was a formality as it didn't impact my fixed raise for that year. A lot of the difficulty in parsing my philosophy probably comes from private versus public sector. As I've related before, I was told by the boss of my boss once that I would never get a raise on par with what I was looking for because then I would be paid more than a department head in a different unit. So because another department has lower standards for hiring than my boss at the time, my salary is being held down artificially by your cost savings elsewhere? I think I was there two more months after that conversation and my boss completely understood. And despite the fact that he invested thousands of dollars and hundreds of man-hours training me and getting me certified in various areas, I took all that information and left - because the head of the accounting department didn't have a college degree.

[Binktopia]

Scribbles and takes notes!

Book marking this thread for future reference.

Between MHS's interviewing tips, and this thread I feel like I have learned more about getting a job and getting a raise than in all my time in school.

[RunningMn9]

So anyway, not upset or anything, just trying to explain why I was going the way I was, and it seems I misunderstood how you were using the other job offers.

Also, my "stop being so damn polite" was just a humorous (to me) quote from Christmas Vacation.

[RunningMn9]

in over a decade of working in the public sector, I had exactly one review.

The public sector is a completely different animal. You traded your soul (and reviews/raises) for access to that sweet NJ pension system.

[LordMortis]

in over a decade of working in the public sector, I had exactly one review.

The public sector is a completely different animal. You traded your soul (and reviews/raises) for access to that sweet NJ pension system.

I'd be terrified of any promises a pension system makes. Of course I've seen then destroyed time and time again first in the Manufacturing sector and now in the our government. It's like the modern way of doing things is to plan for bankruptcy restructuring, so you can break your long term promises. And you live in the state with biggest bankruptcy as the smart way of doing business jackhole there is.

[RMC]

So anyway, not upset or anything, just trying to explain why I was going the way I was, and it seems I misunderstood how you were using the other job offers.

Also, my "stop being so damn polite" was just a humorous (to me) quote from Christmas Vacation.

hehe... Yeah, I saw the smiley after the fact..

[RMC]

So that was fast for a call back, the next day.

I have a 1/2 day interview scheduled for July 31st.

There is apparently a set of people that I will interview with for a variety of positions.

So my interview starts at 8:30 and runs until 12:30. They are sending me an agenda of who I am interviewing with and for what positions each of those interviews are for.

So a new way to interview for me, I have had long interviews before, and even one were they flew me out to Arizona for a 3-4 hour interview. But never a 4 hour interview with a bunch of interviewers and positions.

[RunningMn9]

I suspect that your only responsibility here is to just not screw things up, and an offer will be forthcoming. The only question to resolve is which dept will make the offer. Good luck!

[RMC]

I suspect that your only responsibility here is to just not screw things up, and an offer will be forthcoming. The only question to resolve is which dept will make the offer. Good luck!

Yeah it seems that way. I had just sent the obligatory "Thanks for interviewing me" email to the last interviewer and then HR called.

So now I have to print out my Resume on some decent paper, and maybe buy a new tie for one of my suits. Gah, I hate wearing suits, even though I wear them to work everyday... I hope that this company has a less formal dress code than the hospital.

[RunningMn9]

Gah, I hate wearing suits, even though I wear them to work everyday... I hope that this company has a less formal dress code than the hospital.

Which brings me to RM9 axiom #5: I never wear suits on an interview.

Although to be fair on that one, I work in a field/environment where casual Friday would be a burdensome dress code. Long ago I took a stand under the theory that if you care about whether I am wearing a suit, I don't want to work for you. I always dress nicely however, and will wear a shirt and tie. But I refuse to wear the jacket on principle.

I don't recommend that axiom to others though.

[Jeff V]

My "interview suit" needs replacing one of these days, it's pretty worn. I only own two, the other being a wedding/funeral suit. I've received the "aww...you didn't need to get dressed up!" comment several times, none of those ever resulted in an offer though. For the most part, I consider it making an effort that some might appreciate, but likely doesn't hurt otherwise. Prior to acquisition, I'd wear a tie every day -- while not formally required, all of the managers with the company did at least that much, and I was a regional manager. After the acquisition, I was reassigned to the location where my boss resides -- the first day, he told me "get rid of the tie, makes me look bad." I'll sometimes wear themed ties around the holidays, but my collection of about 50 ties is aging in the closet.

[stessier]

So that was fast for a call back, the next day.

I have a 1/2 day interview scheduled for July 31st.

There is apparently a set of people that I will interview with for a variety of positions.

So my interview starts at 8:30 and runs until 12:30. They are sending me an agenda of who I am interviewing with and for what positions each of those interviews are for.

So a new way to interview for me, I have had long interviews before, and even one were they flew me out to Arizona for a 3-4 hour interview. But never a 4 hour interview with a bunch of interviewers and positions.

Wow, really? I've never gotten a job that didn't include a full day interview schedule with a minimum of 6 people (well, once I graduated from college anyway). There's always the HR Manager, the Hiring Manager, the Hiring Manager's Boss, and the Peer Group - usually 2 to 3 people, sometimes together, sometimes separate. And then there is the lunch which is a combination of people who are interviewing me as well as people who don't get an official interview slot but are likely to end up working with me. It's usually a pretty draining day.

Edit: Oh, and good luck!!! Hope it's everything you're looking for!

[RMC]

So that was fast for a call back, the next day.

I have a 1/2 day interview scheduled for July 31st.

There is apparently a set of people that I will interview with for a variety of positions.

So my interview starts at 8:30 and runs until 12:30. They are sending me an agenda of who I am interviewing with and for what positions each of those interviews are for.

So a new way to interview for me, I have had long interviews before, and even one were they flew me out to Arizona for a 3-4 hour interview. But never a 4 hour interview with a bunch of interviewers and positions.

Wow, really? I've never gotten a job that didn't include a full day interview schedule with a minimum of 6 people (well, once I graduated from college anyway). There's always the HR Manager, the Hiring Manager, the Hiring Manager's Boss, and the Peer Group - usually 2 to 3 people, sometimes together, sometimes separate. And then there is the lunch which is a combination of people who are interviewing me as well as people who don't get an official interview slot but are likely to end up working with me. It's usually a pretty draining day.

Edit: Oh, and good luck!!! Hope it's everything you're looking for!

Usually, HR interview over the phone... Then a first interview over the phone as well.

Then meet with boss and team for the next interviews... Repeat as needed.

But to meet a bunch of different managers who are all hiring for different positions, nope never been through that. But I have been in only software and healthcare for the past 10 years, so that might be a difference in industries... Not sure..

[stessier]

But to meet a bunch of different managers who are all hiring for different positions, nope never been through that. But I have been in only software and healthcare for the past 10 years, so that might be a difference in industries... Not sure..

Ahh, misunderstood a bit there. Sorry.

Yeah, I've been through that once and it is a bit weird, although it does keep things fresh. At least in my case, the positions were all different enough that I could tell different stories to illustrate my points. It get the day from getting stale. It's funny, because the interviewers all only hear the stories once, but if I tell the same story to 4 or 5 people, I start to get bored and just go on auto pilot.

Getting a job is hard work!

[RunningMn9]

For the most part, I consider it making an effort that some might appreciate, but likely doesn't hurt otherwise.

My theory at the time was that I made the decision to make me as comfortable as possible under the pretext that the more comfortable I am, the better I will actually interview. To be fair though, I've only been on seven interviews since I graduated college, but I am currently 7 for 7 so something must be working right.

[Smoove_B]

I was told by a former boss that one of the reasons I was offered the job was that I was the only person to come to the interview wearing a suit. Other people were similarly qualified but I made an impression...by being uncomfortable.

It always feels strange wearing a suit as that level of clothing was never even remotely appropriate for any of my jobs, but that's what I always show up in.

[RunningMn9]

I was told by a former boss that one of the reasons I was offered the job was that I was the only person to come to the interview wearing a suit. Other people were similarly qualified but I made an impression.

I impress with my wit!

[PLW]

I was told by a former boss that one of the reasons I was offered the job was that I was the only person to come to the interview wearing a suit. Other people were similarly qualified but I made an impression...by being uncomfortable.

It always feels strange wearing a suit as that level of clothing was never even remotely appropriate for any of my jobs, but that's what I always show up in.

Faculty position was the same way. I wore a suit to the interviews, and I haven't worn it to work since.

[GreenGoo]

Suit to interview, cargo shorts and sandals to my desk.

Welcome to system administration.

[RMC]

Yeah, it is always easier in my book to wear a suit and be slightly 'over dressed' than to show up under dressed compared to other applicants.

<shrug> But every industry is different and I am sure if you show up to some interviews in a suit, it will hurt you and not help you.

[GreenGoo]

Yeah, it is always easier in my book to wear a suit and be slightly 'over dressed' than to show up under dressed compared to other applicants.

<shrug> But every industry is different and I am sure if you show up to some interviews in a suit, it will hurt you and not help you.

Depends if it's HR hiring, or your future boss (who understands the nature of the job). Even then, you might get a boss with his own ideas of corporate culture and then who knows what the deal will be if you don't ask him outright.

It's my opinion that interviews for very few "professional" jobs are hurt by wearing a suit. Wearing a suit is low to nil risk. Not wearing a suit is middle-ish risk, depending on a lot of factors.

I'm glad Rmn9 doesn't wear a suit, but quite frankly the difference between a suit and tie versus a business shirt, pants and tie is a jacket. Not exactly going out too far on a limb.

[J.D.]

I have a big interview tomorrow with one of our Sales Directors for a Senior Analyst position. He got to be Director partly because during his interview he walked in with a whole presentation about his vision for the role and his strategy and basically blew away the VP with his vision. I'm going to take a page out of his book and do the same thing. Spent the last couple of nights researching and putting together a Powerpoint presentation that (I think) contains a lot of good stuff. I'm hoping to really surprise him with it as I don't think he's going to expect candidates for this role come in with something like this.

I am crazy nervous though. I don't get the opportunity to do too many presentations in my role and the Director is an extremely nice guy, but he's smart, and will pick you apart if you try to get by with buzzwords and generalities without any data or specifics to back things up.

I really think this job is a perfect fit though so I'm going to put it all out there and see what happens.

[Jeff V]

Good luck, JD. Sounds like you're putting in a hell of an effort, I hope it's appreciated and rewarded!

I've found proactive (rather than reactive) interviews to be rather productive. The closest thing I had to what you are describing was for a newly created product support position for a company that produced systems to predict component failure for high-value things like aircraft engines and locomotives. They had a vague idea that they would be handing off support of these systems to the person in this role and get it off the plate of engineers who needed to focus more on designing systems for new customers. I treated the interview as a consulting meeting and worked with the management team to flesh out the job description and duties. I made good impressions on everyone I met with...however, the position was waiting for one more client to sign on to provide funding. I was hired elsewhere before that occurred.