Swifties unite!

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:13 am

I've confessed this fact on here before, but I've discovered over the past couple years that I'm a Swiftie. That is to say that I'm an admitted out of the closet Taylor Swift fan. I can't help it.

She writes/creates good music and she does things like no other singer. While the Kanyes of the world shelter themselves from reality and toss down superiority edicts to the masses, Taylor Swift continues to invite fans into her home for private screenings, responds to many of them over social media, surprises some of them with Christmas presents, etc. etc. She doesn't have to do any of this stuff, but she does because she says it keeps her grounded and brings some normalcy to her otherwise very not-normal world.

I used to have a rule about albums that before I would purchase one it would have to have at least 3 songs that I really liked (back when we used to buy albums in stores). Taylor Swift's 1989 album has smashed that standard and continues to put out songs that I enjoy.

Anyway... She just put out a new video and it compelled me to put out an admiration thread again.

Wildest Dreams

It's been criticized by the new class of perpetually offended people we have in this country as being 'racist' because it takes place in Africa but features white people. I took a look and it is set in 1950s Hollywood film backdrop and appears in no way racist to me.

Yellowking: SHAKE IT OFF!

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:29 am

Meh. I will wait for the PMJ version.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:39 am

I get that she creates good pop songs, but lyrically, she's still very childish (at least with songs like this one and most of the other popular ones I've heard), and I find that grating. But as long as you don't listen to any of the words she's saying, yeah she's a very good pop star. At this point in her career though (if she's interested in longevity), she needs to start working on stuff other than pop songs about how much she's into dudes.

geezer · Post by **geezer** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:01 am

I'm a fan. And FWIW I think she's a much better songwriter than many of her peers. I mean, lyrically she's no Jason Mraz, but she writes her own stuff and it's leagues ahead of lots of contemporary mainstream pop.

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:17 am

RunningMn9 wrote:I get that she creates good pop songs, but lyrically, she's still very childish (at least with songs like this one and most of the other popular ones I've heard), and I find that grating. But as long as you don't listen to any of the words she's saying, yeah she's a very good pop star. At this point in her career though (if she's interested in longevity), she needs to start working on stuff other than pop songs about how much she's into dudes.

Actually her previous album, Red, was much more interesting lyrically. With 1989 she decided to go full-on pop star and simplified her lyrics. I can enjoy 1989 but I think Red is a superior album in most respects.

It all started because Elise liked Taylor's music and I ceded control of the car stereo to her long ago. It took a few years to admit that I liked her music too.

Still, I die a little inside when Elise switches over to One Direction.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:31 am

I loved her songs in the beginning. Not really a fan any longer of her music...her looks though..ya.

Sexy pics in spoilers.

Spoiler:

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:14 pm

geezer wrote:I'm a fan. And FWIW I think she's a much better songwriter than many of her peers. I mean, lyrically she's no Jason Mraz, but she writes her own stuff and it's leagues ahead of lots of contemporary mainstream pop.

I'll take your word for it. I only ever hear pop music when it's playing in a bar and it all sounds the same to me. She looks like a pretty girl under all that glamour, though.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:18 pm

I like her pop music better than her country, but I am a little tired of her showing up on the news constantly.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:08 pm

My young daughters and I enjoy girl bands, and Taylor Swift is pretty decent pop. It drives my wife crazy but we outvote her.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 3:52 pm

I'm a fan simply because I feel like she's a decent role model for my daughter, unlike a ton of other pop stars who only sing about getting drunk and having sex.

As far as the "racist" video crap, we live in the age of the internet where anything you say is going to be branded racist by somebody. Lorde was accused of being racist because she was singing about tigers on a gold leash and diamond rings, and that was somehow viewed as slamming hip hop culture. People who feel the need to accuse other people of being racist need a way to feel superior about themselves by putting someone else down while patting themselves on the back.

The only bad move Taylor Swift did was apologize to Nicki Minaj who was targeting T-Swift then backpedaled when she got called out on it. Fucking bitch.

geezer · Post by **geezer** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:08 pm

YellowKing wrote:I'm a fan simply because I feel like she's a decent role model for my daughter, unlike a ton of other pop stars who only sing about getting drunk and having sex.

As far as the "racist" video crap, we live in the age of the internet where anything you say is going to be branded racist by somebody. Lorde was accused of being racist because she was singing about tigers on a gold leash and diamond rings, and that was somehow viewed as slamming hip hop culture.

I think it IS slamming hip hop culture, and a bunch of other materialistic things, but that's sort of the point of the song. Still not racist. Plus I kinda dig Lorde.

YellowKing wrote:People who feel the need to accuse other people of being racist need a way to feel superior about themselves by putting someone else down while patting themselves on the back.

Except sometimes stuff IS racist.

YellowKing wrote:The only bad move Taylor Swift did was apologize to Nicki Minaj who was targeting T-Swift then backpedaled when she got called out on it. Fucking bitch.

Dude, THAT''S racist.

gilraen · Post by **gilraen** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:17 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:I get that she creates good pop songs, but lyrically, she's still very childish (at least with songs like this one and most of the other popular ones I've heard), and I find that grating. But as long as you don't listen to any of the words she's saying, yeah she's a very good pop star. At this point in her career though (if she's interested in longevity), she needs to start working on stuff other than pop songs about how much she's into dudes.

She may get there when she gets some more diverse life experiences under her belt, even at 25 she's still somewhat "stuck" at teenage-like level, as far as life and relationships go.

I do like her voice, I can only recognize a couple of her songs when they play on the radio but that's mostly because I stopped listening to the radio in the car, so I don't really know any new music any more.

At least Swift can get through a song on-stage without grabbing her crotch, which is more than Nicki Minaj can say (and almost every other female pop star these days, seems like).

gameoverman · Post by **gameoverman** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:28 pm

These days I do raise an eyebrow when I see stuff made in the mindset of the old days.

So if I was going to make a music video with the whitest of white girls and set it in Africa(of all places), I would be thinking of Paul Simon and what he did with Graceland. Try to involve locals is what I'm saying.

I wouldn't call it racist, but I do think 'thoughtless' is a fair description.

I get that it's a 50s movie set thing, but they could have made it any scenario they wanted. So I don't think you can dodge the complaints by saying it's true to history, since they could have just as easily chosen a more diverse historical concept for the video.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:56 pm

This is where she will hopefully end up after she breaks out of the teenager phase.

geezer · Post by **geezer** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:00 pm

hepcat wrote:This is where she will hopefully end up after she breaks out of the teenager phase.

I'm having a really hard time envisioning a wold where Taylor Swift evolves into Gin Wigmore. Also, if you like Gin Wigmore, check out ZZ Ward.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:13 pm

So are Swifties like lemmings?

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:35 pm

Rip wrote:So are Swifties like lemmings?

I was expecting a John Kerry thread.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:38 pm

I also thought he was trying to bring back the Swift Boat Veterans group at first.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:17 pm

geezer wrote:Except sometimes stuff IS racist.

Except when it's not.

At any rate, I think the director of the video gave a very good rebuttal to the racist argument. Also, I'm not sure why people are saying Taylor Swift is a racist since I'm positive she didn't dream up the entire concept of the video. She has teams of people and publicists to do that kind of thing. Her job is to show up, record the video, and make the record label money.

mori · Post by **mori** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:37 pm

I accept that Swift is a talented singer, I cannot stand her songs. From pop country to straight up pop, I hate them. If she ever gets beyond this pop stage and moves on, I may give her some serious notice.

I remember her doing a cover of a Def Leppard song and it was horrible (I admit it was in Joe Elliott's key, but still). She certainly has her limits on the direction of career.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:55 pm

Silently mouths "call me" to Taylor

She writes some catchy tunes, I'll give her that.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:31 pm

The last woman singer we went to see was the spectacular Mavis Staples. Before that it was Aretha.

Ms. Swift isn't on the same planet, let alone in their league.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:28 pm

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't recognize a single one of her songs. Or if I did, that I'd associate it with her. Kiddie pop wasn't even on my radar when I was a kiddie.

mori · Post by **mori** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:34 pm

tgb wrote:The last woman singer we went to see was the spectacular Mavis Staples. Before that it was Aretha.

Ms. Swift isn't on the same planet, let alone in their league.

Is any woman?

Maybe DD's sweetheart Morgan James?

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:18 am

mori wrote:
tgb wrote:The last woman singer we went to see was the spectacular Mavis Staples. Before that it was Aretha.

Ms. Swift isn't on the same planet, let alone in their league.
Is any woman?

Maybe DD's sweetheart Morgan James?

Never heard of her, but I like it. There's also Ruthie Foster

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:15 am

I'm not a fan of injecting vocal acrobatics into a song just to show you have some range. Just concentrate on the song itself. If you've got the talent, it will get across the way it should.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:21 am

Unless it's just party music in a bar or at a function or something, I don't like covers that slavishly reproduce the original song. The artist should bring a new interpretation to it (beyond the vocal noodling that you object to).

JonathanStrange · Post by **JonathanStrange** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:01 pm

I just came here for the pictures. But I stayed for the commentary!

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 4:43 pm

Nowadays I assume most pop music is really the work of the producer and his computers. Taylor Swift is hot and everything, and her songs are fun on the radio, but can she really perform music with presence? Or is it all just a light show?

(I'm not attacking her specifically; it's just that she's the top example now.)

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:39 pm

Holman wrote:Nowadays I assume most pop music is really the work of the producer and his computers. Taylor Swift is hot and everything, and her songs are fun on the radio, but can she really perform music with presence? Or is it all just a light show?

She's the real deal. She was actively working as a songwriter in Nashville at the age of 15 and was considered a bit of a prodigy. She is not the best technical singer, but I've seen worlds of improvement since she first hit it big. I remember watching her live when her first album came out and she was pitchy as hell, but she's improved a lot over the years.

RLMullen · Post by **RLMullen** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 12:05 am

Jeff V wrote:I'm pretty sure I wouldn't recognize a single one of her songs. Or if I did, that I'd associate it with her. Kiddie pop wasn't even on my radar when I was a kiddie.

It will be. Give it another ten years.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:35 am

YellowKing wrote:
Holman wrote:Nowadays I assume most pop music is really the work of the producer and his computers. Taylor Swift is hot and everything, and her songs are fun on the radio, but can she really perform music with presence? Or is it all just a light show?
She's the real deal. She was actively working as a songwriter in Nashville at the age of 15 and was considered a bit of a prodigy. She is not the best technical singer, but I've seen worlds of improvement since she first hit it big. I remember watching her live when her first album came out and she was pitchy as hell, but she's improved a lot over the years.

That's good to hear.

Most pop stars are manufactured to the point where they don't write their own lyrics, play the instruments, or do much more than pose for the photo shoots. I like TS' voice and persona when I hear it, but I still get the impression that the songs are produced and mixed and computer'ed in ways that have little to do with whatever musical talent she brings.

I'm at the point where I don't trust any musician who can't wow me with a stripped-down live set.

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 12:36 pm

On a related note, Scott Eastwood looks freaking identical to a young Clint Eastwood.

Can they make a Pale Rider origin story or something with him?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 12:45 pm

Holman wrote:I'm at the point where I don't trust any musician who can't wow me with a stripped-down live set.

She's standing on the shoulders of some heavy hitters, but I'm pretty sure she managed to hold her own.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:06 pm

msduncan wrote:On a related note, Scott Eastwood looks freaking identical to a young Clint Eastwood.

Can they make a Pale Rider origin story or something with him?

Pair him up with Jake Busey.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:19 pm

Kraken wrote: She looks like a pretty girl under all that glamour, though.

In the photos I've seen, "pretty girl" is an apt description of her without her make-up. With the full glam she's smokin' hot. Without it, you might or might not give her a second look walking down the street.

As for her music, it's... not to my taste.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:07 am

RLMullen wrote:
Jeff V wrote:I'm pretty sure I wouldn't recognize a single one of her songs. Or if I did, that I'd associate it with her. Kiddie pop wasn't even on my radar when I was a kiddie.
It will be. Give it another ten years.

Baby is digging classical music now.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:05 am

The inability of your infant to reach out of the crib and slap you across the face while yelling "Put on some damn Clash, gramps!" should NOT be mistaken for approval.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:13 am

When he's old enough to sing along with "Career Opportunities," he'll be treated to some Clash. Until then, Brahms it is!

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:09 pm

geezer wrote:And FWIW I think she's a much better songwriter than many of her peers. I mean, lyrically she's no Jason Mraz, but she writes her own stuff and it's leagues ahead of lots of contemporary mainstream pop.

I keep hearing how everyone likes Swift because she writes all her own music. We were in Nashville in July, and spent a night at the Bluebird Cafe. For those who don't know, the Bluebird is somewhat of a Nashville institution, with most of the big name country stars having played there at some point (Sheryl Crow just randomly stopped by the night before we were there). They do two shows a night, the first usually being a group of songwriters (who are typically very good performers in their own right), and the second being the actual "stars" themselves.

It's a fairly informal setting, so they do lots of dialog during the shows. One of the songwriters said something along the lines of "Everyone here will know this next song", and they proceeded to play a Taylor Swift tune (or so my wife told me). After the song, the songwriter talked about what an honor it was to write songs for Taylor Swift, and how Swift has such a talented "team of writers" behind her. This confused me, as I've always been under the impression that Swift was the main writer of all her stuff. Her comments made me wonder how accurate that statement actually is.

The whole idea of having this whole factory of songwriters who churn out music but aren't quite pretty enough to actually be put forward to the public is a strange concept to me. I know it's been that way with pop music forever, but it's still just...weird. Probably because 99% of what I listen to is so niche that there would never be a demand for an industry of outside songwriters.