The Art of the Donald Trumpocalypse

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:50 pm

I don't trust Hillary not to tack with the winds, but I trust her to do so within acceptable limits. She can be relied upon for good Supreme Court nominations, for example, and I do trust her on foreign policy, the environment, and the economy.

Even the least nauseating GOP candidate will still rubber-stamp the agenda coming out of the House. Electing any one of them this year means putting the entire U.S. government into the hands of the worst elements of the 21st-century Republican party.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:44 pm

Holman wrote:I don't trust Hillary not to tack with the winds, but I trust her to do so within acceptable limits.

Well stated. That sums up my feelings as well. One of the things that I have least liked about the Clintons (though now it may be a plus) is that they both seem to feel that it is necessary to be "liked" by everyone. To me, it has always been difficult to nail down a position because of the constant fluctuation.

Will she lie? Absolutely. But I don't expect her to lie on the important stuff any more, or less, than any of the predecessors. Will she lie on the "little" stuff? Oh yeah. More than others might? Most likely. I just don't really care about that.

But Trump... he scares me. He'll lie about everything. But, more importantly, I don't think his ego leaves any room for common sense. I cannot picture any positive outcome of a meeting between him and any other world leader. And the thought of him meeting with Putin really concerns me.

At least Clinton knows how to "play nice". Trump just doesn't seem to exist in our reality.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:59 pm

Looks like the GOP may just hand the presidency to Hillary unless they wise up.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:59 pm

TheMix wrote:But Trump... he scares me. He'll lie about everything. But, more importantly, I don't think his ego leaves any room for common sense. I cannot picture any positive outcome of a meeting between him and any other world leader. And the thought of him meeting with Putin really concerns me.

You don't think ending sanctions in exchange for Trump casinos in Moscow and Saint Petersburg would be a positive outcome? Somehow I think Trump and Putin would get along fabulously.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:08 pm

Great. 4 years or more of constant photos of shirtless old guys riding horses and wrestling await us.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:31 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
TheMix wrote:But Trump... he scares me. He'll lie about everything. But, more importantly, I don't think his ego leaves any room for common sense. I cannot picture any positive outcome of a meeting between him and any other world leader. And the thought of him meeting with Putin really concerns me.
You don't think ending sanctions in exchange for Trump casinos in Moscow and Saint Petersburg would be a positive outcome? Somehow I think Trump and Putin would get along fabulously.

Hmmm... Good point. I failed to take into consideration that Trump would do well when advancing his own personal agenda. My bad.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:24 pm

CNN

Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump called Monday to block all Muslims from entering the United States.

Trump, who has previously called for surveillance against mosques and said he was open to establishing a database for all Muslims living in the U.S., made his latest controversial call in a news release.
...
The release pointed to an online poll from the controversial Center for Security Policy, which claimed that a quarter of Muslims living in the U.S. believe violence against Americans is justified as part of a global jihadist campaign. The Center for Security Policy is a think tank that has been accused of peddling conspiracy theories.

Trump's call for a shutdown of Muslim immigration in the U.S. came hours before he was set to speak aboard the U.S.S. Yorktown, a World War II era ship parked near Charleston, South Carolina.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 7:10 pm

Holy shit. That's just... Words fail.

Except that such a policy would do more to radicalize the susceptible than anything Al Qaeda or ISIS could say or do. It's like turning America inside-out.

Completely wrong. Probably as close to fascist as we've come in a major candidate.

Choices have never been clearer.

geezer · Post by **geezer** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:39 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:CNN

Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump called Monday to block all Muslims from entering the United States.

Trump, who has previously called for surveillance against mosques and said he was open to establishing a database for all Muslims living in the U.S., made his latest controversial call in a news release.
...
The release pointed to an online poll from the controversial Center for Security Policy, which claimed that a quarter of Muslims living in the U.S. believe violence against Americans is justified as part of a global jihadist campaign. The Center for Security Policy is a think tank that has been accused of peddling conspiracy theories.

Trump's call for a shutdown of Muslim immigration in the U.S. came hours before he was set to speak aboard the U.S.S. Yorktown, a World War II era ship parked near Charleston, South Carolina.

I'm curious about what % of Americans believe that violence is justified as part of an anti-radical Islam campaign even assuming that innocents would be killed in the process. Bet it's more than 25%.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:45 pm

Sadly, I can't say that figure seems too high.

We're marching closer and closer to internment camps for Muslims in the United States. People are scared and unsure. And that kind of fear and uncertainty is what lead Germans to commit the atrocities of the Holocaust. It's easy to say it could never happen here. But I'm sure that's what many Germans thought at first.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:08 pm

Polling in September (before Paris, before San Bernardino) indicated that only 49% of Iowa Republicans believed Islam should even be legal in the United States. Among Trump voters it was 38%.

I suspect those numbers have gotten worse since then.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:57 pm

What happened today is going to be an interesting test. If his popularity doesn't start to crater on the right then IMO we will have more than enough proof that the Republican party is completely unmoored. And like others have said we sort of need them to be ... rational.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:00 pm

Exactly. If this is all a charade, I can imagine him sitting around with a group of people plotting this as a way to finally reveal how insane the idea is that he would actually run for President. But then he comes out with this latest nonsense and his poll numbers surge higher, locking him in to this new even crazier trajectory.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:41 pm

It's a goddamn Mel Brooks' film at this point.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:43 pm

hepcat wrote:It's a goddamn Mel Brooks' film at this point.

More Woody Allen, really, given the deep underlying tragedy.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:30 am

Dick Cheney Dismisses Trump’s Muslim Ban: ‘Goes Against Everything We Stand For’

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:34 am

Cheney is such a RINO......

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:59 am

Defiant wrote:Dick Cheney Dismisses Trump’s Muslim Ban: ‘Goes Against Everything We Stand For’

Like exploiting them for oil?

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:05 am

Trump has reached an inflection point with this. If his support keeps going up and he keeps doubling down...well. If we're already monitoring mosques, registering Muslims, and forbidding all entries (even for students and tourists), then what's his next escalation, concentration camps? If he doesn't crash and burn pretty soon then -- well, you fill in the blank.

I'll say this: If Trump can become president, the terrorists won.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:54 am

The Real Reason Trump is polling so well in Iowa.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:29 am

Kraken wrote:Trump has reached an inflection point with this. If his support keeps going up and he keeps doubling down...well. If we're already monitoring mosques, registering Muslims, and forbidding all entries (even for students and tourists), then what's his next escalation, concentration camps? If he doesn't crash and burn pretty soon then -- well, you fill in the blank.

I'll say this: If Trump can become president, the terrorists won.

Next escalation is burning Qurans.....

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:21 am

Trump's whole schtick is to say the thing everyone else is "afraid to say" (not, of course, because it's batshit crazy but because they're too politically correct). If this episode turns too many media/GOP types against him, he'll back it down and claim that he was just trying to highlight the weakness of our background checks. As other politicians line up to agree with the need for stronger checks, he'll take credit for that, and he'll keep on Trumping.

Meanwhile, his followers are more and more emboldened by the tough talk and the sense that Trump agrees with everything they think but haven't been allowed to say. That's what he's selling them.

We're going to see more politicians climbing on this train. Nevada's creepy Michele Fiore ("I'll shoot them refugees myself") is just the first.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:41 am

Can we hide the ninja icon from Rip somehow? I suspect he'd keep posting the stuff he does even without that crutch.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:04 am

First it was Latinos and now it's Muslims, so who's next Blacks? Gays? Jews?

I used to laugh at Trump, but his rhetoric is just pure fascism and I know it;s still relatively early in the election cycle, but seriously when will the GOP just oust this guy or hell split themselves off from the tea-party in general. I can't believe this is the Party of Lincoln

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:54 am

Lincoln? It's not even the party of Goldwater & Buckley.

More and more I'm starting to think of this as some Bizarro-world version of The Candidate. I think Trump got into this as a goof and a way to get more exposure for his brand, but it steamrolled to the point that he got caught up in it and can't find a way out.

There's still a glimmer of hope that he's trying to get out of it by upping the ante and saying more and more obnoxious stuff so he can lose Iowa and still "bow out gracefully".

I really don't want to move to Panama or Belize 4 years early.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:58 am

Not racists, but #1 with racists (sorry, Simpsons reference):

Donald Trump’s new pledge to ban all Muslims from entering the country – even, apparently, American citizens – marked a shocking turn in the GOP primaries on Monday – but it didn’t come from out of nowhere.
Rather, Trump’s call for religion-based discrimination is just the latest example of a fringe, anti-Muslim movement Republican leaders have spent years working to contain, only to see it bubble into the national conversation through this primary’s outsider candidates.

In this case, Trump made the connection clear as day. His proposal to ban Muslim entry into the U.S. cited research from the Center for Security Policy, an organization led by conservative gadfly Frank Gaffney that’s identified as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center and has repeatedly clashed with other conservatives over its views.

My favorite:

The reason some Republican leaders had been so quick to contain the anti-Sharia wing in the past was not because it was politically popular to do so, but because they knew that if left unchecked, things could get out of hand.

Scraper · Post by **Scraper** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:01 am

tru1cy wrote:First it was Latinos and now it's Muslims, so who's next Blacks? Gays? Jews?

I used to laugh at Trump, but his rhetoric is just pure fascism and I know it;s still relatively early in the election cycle, but seriously when will the GOP just oust this guy or hell split themselves off from the tea-party in general. I can't believe this is the Party of Lincoln

Judging purely off of my facebook feed the vast majority of Republicans agree with him and see nothing wrong with his proposals. Of course they're all white Christians who are lucky if they even know any Muslims, so their xenophobia is now showing in bright neon colors.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:10 am

tgb wrote: More and more I'm starting to think of this as some Bizarro-world version of The Candidate. I think Trump got into this as a goof and a way to get more exposure for his brand, but it steamrolled to the point that he got caught up in it and can't find a way out.

I think he's been trying to get out by ramping up the racist rhetoric. Unfortunately, the tea party members and other right wing extremists that flocked to him actually DO believe the hate filled speeches he shits out. At this point, he's going to be able to call for rounding up everyone who's not a white christian and putting them in work camps...and get resounding applause from his audience. Although I will say he's been fantastic at exposing the ugly underbelly of the GOP. Unfortunately, it's also making them feel empowered at the same time.

raydude · Post by **raydude** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:21 am

hepcat wrote:
tgb wrote: More and more I'm starting to think of this as some Bizarro-world version of The Candidate. I think Trump got into this as a goof and a way to get more exposure for his brand, but it steamrolled to the point that he got caught up in it and can't find a way out.
I think he's been trying to get out by ramping up the racist rhetoric. Unfortunately, the tea party members and other right wing extremists that flocked to him actually DO believe the hate filled speeches he shits out. At this point, he's going to be able to call for rounding up everyone who's not a white christian and putting them in work camps...and get resounding applause from his audience. Although I will say he's been fantastic at exposing the ugly underbelly of the GOP. Unfortunately, it's also making them feel empowered at the same time.

See, I actually believe he IS the epitome of the crazy uncle that you don't want to invite to family get-togethers because he says crazy things. He just hasn't said them in public until now because until recently he knew that saying such things would get him in trouble. Now the positive response feeds his ego which diminishes his brain-to-mouth filter which gives him a positive response which feeds his ego. Classic positive reinforcement feedback loop.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:25 am

I was just looking back at the start of this thread, before we took Trump seriously.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:27 am

Trump on Good Morning America (this morning):

You’re increasingly being compared to Hitler. Does that give you any pause at all?

No, because what I’m doing is no different than what FDR—FDR’s solution for Germans, Italians, Japanese, many years ago—

So you’re for internment camps?

This is a president who is highly respected by all—he did the same thing. If you look at what he was doing, it was far worse. He was talking about the Germans—because we’re at war. We are now at war. We have a president who doesn’t want to say it, but we’re at war.

I’ve gotta press you on that. You’re praising FDR there—I take it you’re praising the setting up of internment camps for Japanese during World War II.

No I’m not, no I’m not. Take a look at presidential proclamations 2525, 2526, and 2527, having to do with alien Germans, alien Italians, alien Japanese. They stripped them of their naturalization proceedings, they went through a whole list of things. They couldn’t go five miles from their homes. They weren’t allowed to use radios, flashlights.

Take a look at what FDR did many years ago, and he’s one of the most highly presidents—I mean, respected by most people. They name highways after him.

He seems to be missing the point that this was a shameful part of our recent history - not something to model policies after in 2015.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:37 am

Smoove_B wrote:Trump on Good Morning America (this morning):

You’re increasingly being compared to Hitler. Does that give you any pause at all?

No, because what I’m doing is no different than what FDR—FDR’s solution for Germans, Italians, Japanese, many years ago—

So you’re for internment camps?

This is a president who is highly respected by all—he did the same thing. If you look at what he was doing, it was far worse. He was talking about the Germans—because we’re at war. We are now at war. We have a president who doesn’t want to say it, but we’re at war.

I’ve gotta press you on that. You’re praising FDR there—I take it you’re praising the setting up of internment camps for Japanese during World War II.

No I’m not, no I’m not. Take a look at presidential proclamations 2525, 2526, and 2527, having to do with alien Germans, alien Italians, alien Japanese. They stripped them of their naturalization proceedings, they went through a whole list of things. They couldn’t go five miles from their homes. They weren’t allowed to use radios, flashlights.

Take a look at what FDR did many years ago, and he’s one of the most highly presidents—I mean, respected by most people. They name highways after him.

The 2015 equivalent of radios and flashlights is cell phones and the internet. Anyway, do this and they win. Chasing our tails, jumping at bumps in the night and forsaking our core values out of fear.

Smoove_B wrote: He seems to be missing the point that this was a shameful part of our recent history - not something to model policies after in 2015.

Argumentum ad antiquitatem.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:36 pm

I wasn't expecting the Trumpish Inquisition.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:10 pm

Blackhawk wrote:I wasn't expecting the Trumpish Inquisition.

Trump's Spanish inquisition is so six months ago.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:12 pm

tru1cy wrote:Party of Lincoln

It hasn't been the party of Lincoln since the late 1960s. Since then, this has been the Party of Davis.

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:13 pm

Holman wrote:I was just looking back at the start of this thread, before we took Trump seriously.

Remember when this was just a funny joke we all assumed Trump was using to sell books and to get the perma-FOX invite?

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:15 pm

I have to admit, Ben Carson is starting to look pretty good again.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:15 pm

Archinerd wrote:I have to admit, Ben Carson is starting to look pretty good again.

Maybe Jesus will make ISIS disappear for him.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:38 pm

Archinerd wrote:I have to admit, Ben Carson is starting to look pretty good again.

Deez Nuts is back on the possibility list for many, I'm guessing.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:39 pm

Archinerd wrote:I have to admit, Ben Carson is starting to look pretty good again.

The way things are going, Sarah Palin is starting to look good.