The Art of the Donald Trumpocalypse

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:42 pm

Defiant wrote:
Archinerd wrote:I have to admit, Ben Carson is starting to look pretty good again.
The way things are going, Sarah Palin is starting to look good.

Oh man, I'd love to go back to the days long past when she was considered crazy.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:54 pm

Holman wrote:I was just looking back at the start of this thread, before we took Trump seriously.

He stopped being amusing months ago and stopped being tolerable in the past few weeks -- since the Paris attack, basically. Yesterday he crossed the line into frightening.

It seems that world leaders are joining in on the firestorm of criticism...and it remains to be seen whether that will take him down a peg or just build him up even further. The latter possibility makes me really, really nervous.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:55 pm

Unfortunately, I think his base will just take criticism as validation.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:01 pm

Yup. Going to a Klan rally and shouting "Kill all the Jews!" will only result in cheers.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:09 pm

Now would be the time--if they're serious about the character of this country instead of just the political game--for the remaining sane members of the GOP to step up and explicitly join Democrats in denouncing Trump.

Bush/Rubio/McCain/etc could possibly revitalize the GOP by expelling Trump and what he represents. At this point it might be their only chance. Instead we're getting half-hearted gestures, such as Paul Ryan dismissing Trump's call for a ban on Muslims but immediately pivoting to announce that he will support the nominee, whoever it is.

I don't think we're in danger of becoming Nazi Germany, but we could very easily see a return to something like Jim Crow in this. And it would do nothing but help ISIS. It's their dream come true.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:23 pm

A complaint one often hears is, "Why bother voting since there is no difference between the two candidates." Can you imagine Trump vs. Sanders. At least there would be a clear choice.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:26 pm

Holman wrote:if they're serious about the character of this country instead of just the political game

That's a little unrealistic, don't ya think?

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:27 pm

Someone needs to remind everyone that our nation's greatest moments of shame all came from xenophobia; ranging from the treatment of blacks (even "free" ones) from slavery onward; Japanese internment camps, and McCarthy communist witch-hunts.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:34 pm

Holman wrote:Now would be the time--if they're serious about the character of this country instead of just the political game--for the remaining sane members of the GOP to step up and explicitly join Democrats in denouncing Trump.

Too late. Manuel Valls and David Cameron have already piled on to denounce him. The GOP can't be seen joining their voices with the namby-pamby French and the colonial oppressors of our Christian forefathers. Like they know anything about terrorism or refugees anyway.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/08/politics/ ... index.html

That's right I can still find it......

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:40 pm

It's definitely a litmus test for our country. If he does get the nomination, the GOP is essentially a broken and dysfunctional party that needs to purge its house of dangerous extremism.

If he takes the election, our country has turned into everything we say we stand against.

Rip wrote:

That's right I can still find it......

I do not think that icon means what you think it means.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:44 pm

Rip wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/08/politics/ ... index.html

That's right I can still find it......

"I do not think it is the right solution," Cruz said.

"The right solution I believe is the legislation that I've introduced," Cruz added, as he outlined previously filed bills to limit the immigration of Syrian refugees alongside Texas Gov. Greg Abbott.

Don't go take too strong a stance there, Teddy.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:47 pm

hepcat wrote:It's definitely a litmus test for our country. If he does get the nomination, the GOP is essentially a broken and dysfunctional party that needs to purge its house of dangerous extremism.

If he takes the election, our country has turned into everything we say we stand against.

Rip wrote:

That's right I can still find it......

I do not think that icon means what you think it means.

It means I am a goddamned NINJA!!!!

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:47 pm

Holman wrote:Now would be the time--if they're serious about the character of this country instead of just the political game--for the remaining sane members of the GOP to step up and explicitly join Democrats in denouncing Trump.

The editor at Think Progress is indicating via Twitter:

Trump, Cruz, Carson, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio and Rick Santorum are all scheduled to participate in Gaffney’s “National Security Action Summit” next week in Las Vegas.

From here.

The article in general lists what the other GOP candidates said and notes that they haven't condemned his words. I'm sure they're waiting to see the poll numbers.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:48 pm

Rip wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/08/politics/ ... index.html

Cruz doesn't have the guts to call it what it is. He probably wishes he'd said it first.

None of them have the morality to denounce racism in their base. They dance around it, look past it, or embrace it, but it's all encouragement in this climate. They're playing with the worst thing about this country.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:19 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:Unfortunately, I think his base will just take criticism as validation.

That is what I have been seeing - only he is willing to tell the truth, he is the only one who understands national security, etc. Basically the same story all along - no matter how far he goes - he can't seem to go too far with the Republican base. If the poll numbers don't move - we have a huge problem here. To be honest we already have a huge problem - we can't govern ourselves as is. It'll signal to the world that we have a fatal problem and events will move beyond our ability to react eventually.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:23 pm

malchior wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:Unfortunately, I think his base will just take criticism as validation.
That is what I have been seeing - they are like - only he is willing to tell the truth, he is the only one who understands national security, etc.

He's the only one who understands the boogey man that keeps me up at night.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:16 pm

The Scalzi sums things up nicely. The whole thing is good, but I'll snip just two of his eight points...

John Scalzi wrote:Do I have thoughts on Donald Trump today? Why, yes. Yes I do.

1. Without offering this up as an excuse — it’s rather the opposite — I don’t think Trump planned to become the face of 21st century American fascism. I suspect rather strongly that he entered the presidential race for the usual reasons that Trump does anything publicly, i.e., for the publicity and the long-term brand benefits that accrue. He said outrageous things and when they gave him a boost, he kept on going in that direction, because why wouldn’t he, and here we are. Of course Trump is going to escalate his rhetoric, because that’s what he needs to do to keep the focus on him, and to starve the other competitors for the GOP nomination of the spotlight, forcing them off the stage.

Which is to say that Trump is running his campaign like he’s on a reality show, which has no other context than itself, and of which the goal is to win the presidency, not actually to be president. He’s not wrong about the reality show aspect of the campaign, and that’s on all of us. He’s wrong about everything else, and that’s on him.

...

8. In case it wasn’t clear: No one — no one — should be supporting Trump at this point. No one should have been supporting him at any point, mind you. But now more than ever is the point when anyone who isn’t comfortable with outright fascism and bigotry should make it clear, to themselves if no one else, that they are out. It doesn’t matter that Trump won’t win the presidency; it doesn’t matter that he might not even win the GOP nomination. Right now, in the United States, the leading candidate for president of one of the two major political parties — the leader by a substantial margin — is openly talking about denying an entire class of people their fundamental Constitutional and human rights, and being cheered for it. It’s not right, it’s bigoted and hateful, and yes, it absolutely is dangerous.

Trump has a right to say bigoted and fascist things. Other bigots and fascists have a right to support him. The rest of us should also exercise our rights and call Trump and the others out for what they are. And right now, the fact is: If you’re supporting Trump, you’re supporting a bigot and a fascist. That may or may not make you a bigot or a fascist, but it doesn’t say good things about you in any event.

If you love the principles that make the foundation of our laws — and of the United States in a general sense — then you should take your leave of Trump, and for that matter, of any candidate who would cheerfully ride into power the same constituency Trump is mining. What you stand for and who you stand with matters. It’s time to stand away from Trump. As far away as you can get.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:20 pm

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:25 pm

edit: in my defense I was writing this post when Zarathud made his post.

malchior wrote:. It'll signal to the world that we have a fatal problem and events will move beyond our ability to react eventually.

I think this is what seems to be completely lost on people who support him. Any sort of foresight whatsoever. It takes more to govern the most powerful country in the world than the ability to shake your first at your foes, real or imagined.

I suspect the US's relevancy on the world stage will start to slip. Obviously when you're the 800 lb gorilla in the room, you're still going to be relevant. But what may happen is that rather than being part of creating any solution (anything from military operations to trade agreements to political alliances), you'll start being "handled" to minimize any damage you might do to solutions other countries come up with.

Obviously this is pure speculation and thought experiment, but when the main geo-political power starts viewing everything as a nail because the people running it have never had their problem solving progress past the hammer stage, things change.

Instead of being a leader on the world stage, the US may become a (powerful) problem that needs to be handled.

As a Canadian, we've recently had a decade of a very specific sort of government that through secrecy, heavy handedness and straight up partisanship, dragged a population in a direction that I like to believe most of us didn't want to go. And that changed who we are, how we saw ourselves and how others viewed us. Lead by a man that by all accounts is intelligent and knowledgeable. I can't even begin to imagine what it would have been like if he had been a reality TV producer/star.

So my speculation isn't simply pure speculation after all, I guess.

This whole thing (Cruz/Trump popularity) just seems so outlandish that I would never have believed it was possible if you had asked me just a few years ago. They aren't even conservatives (who I can respect, even if I disagree with them). They are cartoon characters. Cartoon characters that are uncomfortably close to the helm of the US of A.

What that says about the US or what it will bring in the future is uncertain, and if the economy loves anything, it's uncertainty.

Even if worst case scenarios never come to fruition, it's hard to imagine much good coming from it.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:33 pm

I'm a big believer that points 6 and 7 are the important ones though - that by legitimizing hate, xenophobia and anti-government extremists the Republican party has undermined our ability to react to world events and make us look more and more backwards as a nation. People only deal with us because those same anti-government extremists somehow don't mind that we spend inordinate amounts of money blowing shit up (though that support is beginning to crumble too). Oh and they hate high taxes but don't connect the dots on why that is.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:37 pm

Blimey!

London Mayor Boris Johnson, a Conservative, said Trump's "ill-informed comments are complete and utter nonsense."

Joining a long list of British politicians criticizing Trump, Johnson said he would "welcome the opportunity to show Mr. Trump firsthand some of the excellent work our police officers do every day in local neighborhoods throughout our city."

"Crime has been falling steadily both in London and in New York — and the only reason I wouldn't go to some parts of New York is the real risk of meeting Donald Trump," Johnson said.......

.......Lawmaker Zac Goldsmith, the Conservative candidate hoping to replace Johnson as mayor in next year's election, called Trump "one of the most malignant figures in modern politics"

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:56 pm

Darth Trump

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:38 pm

hepcat wrote:Darth Trump

That's the funniest thing about Trump in a very long time.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:53 pm

tgb wrote:
hepcat wrote:Darth Trump
That's the funniest thing about Trump in a very long time.

Agreed 100%.

That was terrific.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:58 pm

I wonder how long until Sharper Image is sold out of Trump Steaks?

Made from American cows by the way certified not include any Islamic cows.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:26 pm

Rip wrote:I wonder how long until Sharper Image is sold out of Trump Steaks?

Made from American cows by the way certified not include any Islamic cows.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:14 pm

UK petition

A petition calling for American presidential hopeful Donald Trump to be refused entry to the UK has passed 200,000 signatures in less than 24 hours, meaning the issue will be considered for debate in parliament.
...
Shortly after the petition surpassed the required 100,000 votes, it appeared the government page crashed.

Of course, there were 200k signtures on their xenophobic petition as well.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:48 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:UK petition

A petition calling for American presidential hopeful Donald Trump to be refused entry to the UK has passed 200,000 signatures in less than 24 hours, meaning the issue will be considered for debate in parliament.
...
Shortly after the petition surpassed the required 100,000 votes, it appeared the government page crashed.
Of course, there were 200k signtures on their xenophobic petition as well.

Just more grist for the Trump bluster mill.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:49 pm

Every time I see the word Xenophobe on a political site, my first thought is who the hell WOULD want a Xenomorph to visit their country?

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:57 pm

Archinerd wrote:
Rip wrote:I wonder how long until Sharper Image is sold out of Trump Steaks?

Made from American cows by the way certified not include any Islamic cows.

Well considering that Sharper Image went bankrupt about a year after picking up the Trump Steaks line, I'm going to guess they didn't sell out. Especially since you can no longer buy them anywhere for at least the past few years.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:03 pm

I'm sure they'll be worth their weight in bottlecaps once the balloon goes up.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:19 pm

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:21 pm

The other 32 percent would follow him if he was as flavorful and delicious as Trump steaks.

<I could watch that scene from Darth Trump a hundred times and still chuckle when he mentions that>

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:49 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:

68% of what, 35% (?) of roughly 50% if we're being generous? So 11% of voters? It's sad that it's that high but it's not threatening.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:54 pm

It's meant to scare the other R candidates, not the whole of the voting public.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:55 pm

Well, it's threatening to the GOP for sure. Enough to assuredly tank their chances in the general.

Crap; Isg beat me to it...

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:56 pm

So when does he name his price? I'm willing to bet that's his endgame now.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:57 pm

I don't think I can remember anyone who has ever brought that level of brinkmanship to the political arena.

...that's not a compliment.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:58 pm

Zaxxon wrote:Well, it's threatening to the GOP for sure. Enough to assuredly tank their chances in the general.

Crap; Isg beat me to it...

BAM!