How is your career going?

[Smoove_B]

James was promoted to the networking position, subsequently canned in the bloodbath that claimed the careers of many (including myself) after being acquired, then was rehired into that old position he did so well, where last I heard he still was toiling away...

I have a friend that once told me never be so good at your job that you can't be replaced - because you never will be. It's something that has stuck with me for decades.

[Jeff V]

James was promoted to the networking position, subsequently canned in the bloodbath that claimed the careers of many (including myself) after being acquired, then was rehired into that old position he did so well, where last I heard he still was toiling away...

I have a friend that once told me never be so good at your job that you can't be replaced - because you never will be. It's something that has stuck with me for decades.

The thing is, a company that won't promote deserving internal staff probably isn't going to promote undeserving staff either (with the usual exceptions for well-connected goofs). If you are unfortunate to work for such a company, take your awesome record elsewhere to keep moving up and let them know better opportunity is the reason for leaving. Unless you work for the government and are penalized for doing your best (I talked to mail carriers who told me their reward for finishing their routes early was to go help someone else finish theirs, so where's the motivation?) I think it's better to stay true to your career and not grow roots too deep into a company that does not support that career in a manner to your liking.

[LawBeefaroni]

2 things as I try to sort this out before the weekend (I really need a good night's sleep).

1. I realized that if I went in before accepting the offer, they would have countered with the retention bonus and I would have turned it down anyway (it was less than my raise). It was only by actually accepting that the chain of events leading to the bigger counters was started. So either way I'd be where I am right now.

2. I'm leaning very heavily towards leaving and telling them that they know where to find me once they sort everything out here. I would have no problem coming back to a known situation.

[ImLawBoy]

James was promoted to the networking position, subsequently canned in the bloodbath that claimed the careers of many (including myself) after being acquired, then was rehired into that old position he did so well, where last I heard he still was toiling away...

I have a friend that once told me never be so good at your job that you can't be replaced - because you never will be. It's something that has stuck with me for decades.

If I worked in an environment where I suspected this was the case, I'd be looking to leave that environment. When I supervised people, I would never have held back my best people from promotion opportunities - I would have encouraged them.

[Carpet_pissr]

If you were that important to them, they would have offered it before you told them you were leaving. Offering it now is them trying to plug a gap, recognizing that you going will be a problem.

Not sure I agree with this...it sounds like you are making the assumption that the employment market is efficient, and that everyone should be making exactly what they are worth. First problem is trying to nail down "exactly what employee X is worth", but I think there is plenty of reason for the current employer to take perhaps "above and beyond" steps to retain 20 years of knowledge and experience.

Unless he was just shite, they would be crazy not to. Sounds like it will take a lot of cost and effort to replace him (and likely with someone with much less experience). Not to mention HR cost and time resources to find a replacement.

Just because they offered something that he didn't currently have (more money, more bennies, whatever), doesn't mean they would or should have when he was an existing asset, as someone astutely upthread put it.

Situation completely changed when he stated his departure, and they made some perhaps unusual steps to keep him. Those steps would not have happened without his departure.

[Smoove_B]

Not sure I agree with this...it sounds like you are making the assumption that the employment market is efficient, and that everyone should be making exactly what they are worth. First problem is trying to nail down "exactly what employee X is worth", but I think there is plenty of reason for the current employer to take perhaps "above and beyond" steps to retain 20 years of knowledge and experience.

For me the issue is that the discussion of value and worth only comes up when notice is given. If this conversation was happening without leverage (i.e. resignation letter) and there was an honest discussion about his title, job role, etc... and how it compares to comparable jobs, titles, etc... in the marketplace well then we'd be having a different conversation. Instead, all of this is happening *only* because he gave notice. They're not (IMHO) negotiating because they suddenly realize the value in what he's been providing all along - likely they already knew it and were happy to pay him less than what he likely deserved. Now that he's essentially called their bluff, they'll magically be able to find money or titles or new staplers to assuage his desires. It grates on me.

Don't doubt how much a replacement costs. Above and beyond the salary and benefits, the amount of time it takes to get a person back up and running to the current level? It might take months - if it ever happens at all. Whatever they're tossing at him likely still represents a fraction of the actual cost of replacement, at least in the short term. Replacing efficient cogs is not something most managers want to do.

[Paingod]

Where I work, the company has hit a slump and is dying for work. We cater to people with way too much money that want a luxury item that sets them back at least a couple million, and apparently those people are spending it overseas instead of locally.

Three weeks ago, four people quit in one day. Each week since, they've laid off another person. Next Monday, two more assistant-level positions are all done. The HR guy says everyone's on the list, it's just a matter of position - and the President and CFO are in the last spots.

There is one branch that does regular work for regular people, and as many people as can be are being shifted there - but there's not enough to sustain the entire company's worth of staff.

I've been looking for a comparable opportunity to what I have for a few months now, but the market is thin and I've only had one interview (which is still up in the air; they have offices across the country and are interviewing in a larger city right now for the same position). I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I can safely move out before someone asks me to leave.

I think my job is relatively safe - even if they laid me off, they'd need to bring in a contractor to do my job at $100 an hour - which adds up fast. I suppose it's a matter of when they think that becomes more cost-effective. Relatively is a flexible term that just means I'm a little further up the list. Since the list is unpublished, I don't really know how safe I am.

[Jeff V]

Some progressive companies do a periodic review to ensure their employees are appropriately compensated under current market conditions, a move that preemptively removes salary from the siren's song of another position. There is often little a company can do when promotion is incentive - it would be a rare happenstance that a higher opening just happens to be available when notice is given. But most job changes, even if for more money are lateral, and the money differential can build up to a substantial amount over time if the current company is not keeping up with market changes.

When my wife finishes school and becomes a well-paid RN, I'll be able to consider the risk of moving to a new job. If the impending split does not result in a company that does better than 1% annual increase, by then I should have accumulated enough equity in my position to make it worth going elsewhere.

[Carpet_pissr]

If this conversation was happening without leverage (i.e. resignation letter) and there was an honest discussion about his title, job role, etc... and how it compares to comparable jobs, titles, etc... in the marketplace well then we'd be having a different conversation.

I completely get the "grating", it rubs one the wrong way in that perspective, but you are almost talking "perfect world" here, instead of the reality of uber competitive, corporate culture where quarterly earnings results are always under a microscope, and pressures are constantly on to cut costs and increase profitability.

In THAT world, managers are indirectly rewarded by keeping salaries low (salary), while still getting the job done.

[Smoove_B]

In THAT world, managers are indirectly rewarded by keeping salaries low (salary), while still getting the job done.

Absolutely. But the risk is that your underlings are going to jump at the chance when someone makes them a more reasonable offer or that they're even looking in the first place. Whether that's money or titles or opportunities -- all things that you could have likely provided in the first place if you (collective) weren't so focused on the bottom line. And while I've never had a corporate boss, I've experienced both types of situations in the public sector quite a few times - bosses that counter offer when you tell them you're leaving versus those that recognize the opportunity and are genuinely happy realizing that it might not be great for them, but it's good for me.

[Jeff V]

There's also conflicting interest involved. I recently had a person leave for an opportunity in another group, and while I'm personally happy for him (he's a good guy and deserves it), professionally it puts a lot of pressure on me, especially when the company won't authorize replacement anytime soon. The resulting environment is not one where managers encourage minions to seek out opportunity when available.

[Carpet_pissr]

In THAT world, managers are indirectly rewarded by keeping salaries low (salary), while still getting the job done.

Absolutely. But the risk is that your underlings are going to jump at the chance when someone makes them a more reasonable offer or that they're even looking in the first place. Whether that's money or titles or opportunities -- all things that you could have likely provided in the first place if you (collective) weren't so focused on the bottom line. And while I've never had a corporate boss, I've experienced both types of situations in the public sector quite a few times - bosses that counter offer when you tell them you're leaving versus those that recognize the opportunity and are genuinely happy realizing that it might not be great for them, but it's good for me.

Yup, and for progressive companies, where the yearly sit down, salary assessment and adjustment to market takes place, that is not a risk (as much). But I would bet most publicly held companies are not in that boat, and will take the risk you mentioned above every time...just as they are typically focused on the next quarter (or two at the most), they prefer the realization of a lower wage vs the potential that they could lose a cog.

Some of the things I have already witnessed and experienced in my to date, short stint in a large corporate environment for a publicly traded company amaze me in this regard. Specifically, managers above me willing to take massive potential mid to long term risks/damage vs. a short term "making the quarter" look good. Crazy.

[LawBeefaroni]

Met with my VP, told him I've made up my mind to go. It was a good discussion. At the end he said, "If it doesn't go the way you want, call me in 6 months or a year."

One call left, to the president. I really have made up my mind but I expect the hard sell. He's a really nice guy but I really just need a reboot.

I've been doing handovers all week but having two 6am-10am morning meetings, travelling off-site on Friday, and meetings solid next week, means I'm way behind schedule.

[The Meal]

Met with my VP, told him I've made up my mind to go. It was a good discussion. At the end he said, "If it doesn't go the way you want, call me in 6 months or a year."

Mission accomplished. Nicely done, sir!

[Zarathud]

Congratulations. The benefit of all the heartache is better positioning if the move doesn't work. Corporate now knows you were an asset lost due to neglect and insufficient compensation.

[LawBeefaroni]

Met with my VP, told him I've made up my mind to go. It was a good discussion. At the end he said, "If it doesn't go the way you want, call me in 6 months or a year."

Mission accomplished. Nicely done, sir!

Just have to do the same with the president and I can finally get a good night's sleep.

The loss of leave time for FMLA still bothers me but I won't be off more than a week or two for that. I have 30 days of grandfathered short-term disability/FMLA leave banked that I'll lose. I'll be riding my bike all the way or walking half way every day so I look at that as prevention beating cure. The actual delivery in June will be the big hit. Timing sucks on that but oh well. Worst case scenario, if I do hit the OOP max something went wrong that would have anyway and that would make any bill largely irrelevant. Best case I pay $6K or so more than I would have but get to spend more time at home, less time on the road, and no time driving to the suburbs for meetings.

[Jeff V]

Seems like you wrapped it up the best way possible, with all bridges still operational. Congrats!

[LordMortis]

Woot! If the VP is sincere then you've hit the outcome I believe you should have been shooting for.

[LawBeefaroni]

Went well with the president too. He gave me his cell phone number and said we should get together to see how things are going in both places in a few months.

Now I have to do all the administrative crap.

Should I put my personal number on my "I'm no longer here" voicemail? I mean I will put all the handoff contacts but I have personal relationships with a lot of docs and would hate to lose touch. Still I'm leaning towards no but have no idea if things are different in 2016.

I have a pension that was frozen over 10 years ago. It is a small amount and I have a pretty robust 401k. I have the option to cash out the pension. I know about the tax hit and the additional 10% penalty. I assume it's best just to keep it. Interest calculation:

Interest is credited on your account balance at the end of the month at a rate which when compounded monthly
for three months equals the average annual rate of interest on 30-year Treasury securities for the
month of August right before the Plan Year in which the interest is credited, divided by 4.

Again, it's frozen so there haven't been and won't be any new contributions, just the interest. It is fully-funded (overfunded actually).

[ImLawBoy]

Should I put my personal number on my "I'm no longer here" voicemail? I mean I will put all the handoff contacts but I have personal relationships with a lot of docs and would hate to lose touch. Still I'm leaning towards no but have no idea if things are different in 2016.

A lot of people here will, just prior to leaving, send out a group e-mail to the people they worked with that contains personal contact information.

[Isgrimnur]

I would leave the personal number off the voicemail, but make sure that your people have it to provide as needed.

Oh, and as a favor to those left behind, don't leave an out of office reply on with your coworkers' addresses. I'm still getting spam thanks to my departed boss. Thanks, Kenny!

[hepcat]

I realized this morning that I truly, honestly dread driving to work.

I fell into IT like so many liberal arts majors after college who realized that being able to know the difference between an iambic pentameter and a anapestic tetrameter wasn't really going to keep us fed with ramen noodles and lattes.

I did try my hand in publishing. The late, great Banks Baldwin Law Publishing House, to be exact. Almost two years of proofreading and correcting boating laws can drive a man mad though. I eventually just stopped showing up quite often and they, surprisingly, fired me.

I then bopped around for a few years, working in book stores and trying to figure out what I'd like to do. Eventually, I took a job with a company that did computer installs/support for print and advertising shops.

This was the heady days of the Mac and business was good. I enjoyed being on the road all day, and not bound to a desk. So it was a decent enough time. Eventually though, a friend of mine in Chicago asked if I'd come help him with the day to day IT stuff at a consulting firm he worked for. I said yes, and found myself living in the big city.

I worked there for about 3 years before a few of the folks split off and formed their own company. I joined up with them because it seemed like there was more opportunity for me.

15 years later and I've had training, opportunities to try new things, and a lot of just sitting at my desk. I really think my heart just isn't in this. I'm not even really sure it ever was. However, it's too late in life to make any drastic changes. So I spend my days working with a guy who disagrees with even the simplest of things because he thinks that's funny, and loves to take out his bad days on everyone around him. I work for a boss who hates it here himself because he's overworked and getting none of the credit for it (thanks to a VP in another department who seems to always jump in front of the line when it comes to congratulations on anything even remotely related to his area), so he isn't exactly helping morale. I don't think I've had a review in two years, and if I get him to even say hi in the morning, it's an accomplishment.

Honestly, the only reason I keep doing this is because I'm hoping I can squirrel enough away to retire in 10 years instead of 15.

But until then, I get up every morning to the tune of Eleanor Rigby playing in my head and heroically go through the motions of actually giving a damn about any of it.

Someday becomes never so fast...

[Isgrimnur]

The LordMortis method.

Seriously, you need to think of it differently. The worst thing that can happen if you try to look for something better is that they say no. The usual is that they say nothing at all. You don't know what's available until you start looking. Leverage friends and former coworkers for something that sounds better. You never know what you might find.

In 10 year, you'll be 10 years older. How you choose to spend that time is all up to you.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, when I was ready to climb into the sniper tower at work I realized I was putting too much emphasis on deriving satisfaction from my job. Don't get me wrong, I liked what I was doing and I wasn't chained to a desk (which helped), but the interoffice drama was absolutely killing me. I found having something to look forward to outside of work was enough to make a different. I still had to stay alert and do my best to not get sucked into the Scylla and Charybdis that sat on either side of me, but having that outside element to keep me busy (in my case it was a class) made a huge difference. Not only was it mentally stimulating but there was a sense of accomplishment -- something that helped to offset the nonsense of my daily grind.

[hepcat]

I realized I was putting too much emphasis on deriving satisfaction from my job.

This is something I mull over every hour of every day.

[LordMortis]

Hep, you're me! Only I doubt I have anything near the skillset you do. Your work and skillset in VMs alone should make you very marketable.

I am overcome by inertia and fear of the unknown. Don't be me. I've become a serious shut in, in no small part because of the toll work takes on my mental state which then took a toll on my physical state.

Let me serve as a warning.

[Jeff V]

I've had a few jobs where the first thing I'd do in the morning is look at the clock, think "7 hours, 59 minutes until I go home" and spend the rest of the day waiting for it to end. That's a horrible way to spend the day, and not worth the paycheck regardless of size.

My current job is a decent enough balance of tedious corporate busywork and interesting enough projects. Over the past few months we built out a new logistics sales office and call center in downtown Chicago; I was the lead IT Infrastructure person on the project, did well and got good recognition. That makes it 8 locations now where I have responsibility and I'm obliged to visit most of them at least once a month, so I'm not getting too stagnant sitting at my home location in the corporate IT HQ in Warrenville. Today I am at the corporate HQ downtown.

Boss told me yesterday that during next week's staff meetings, we have a lot to talk about regarding the company split. It'll be good to finally get some information, but he assured me that everyone is safely employed throughout the process and beyond. He did think it's possible he'll be asked to provide a tech to one of the less desireable companies if they split out some mail lines in our distribution center and suggested the guy coming up on 45 years would be best qualified for the role. Which he is. Which will also probably trigger early retirement (atm, his retirement is set for March 2017). Just how they would split out these lines has everyone scratching their heads. Apparently, walling it off from the rest of the business (since it would be two separate companies) would cost $1m. Moving the lines would cost $3.5m. And this, for lines that aren't even profitable in the first place (hence the reason they are consigned to one of the non-profitable companies and not the profitable one). The logical solution would be to not split it off, let the customer contracts expire over time and eliminate these lines down the road.

Our region is concentrated in the Chicago area, but after the split, we will take responsibility of some locations downstate, Michigan and Indiana (if any of them fall under me, I might be obliged to take the occasional road trip).

[hepcat]

Hep, you're me!

Dude, every time I see you at an Octocon, I remind you that we're two peas in a pod. If I lived in Michigan, I'm fairly certain you and I'd be playing board games every Friday night and bitching about people.

[coopasonic]

I'm in IT and I _like_ my job. I just wanted to point out that it is possible. Of course I am the opposite of hepcat. I've been on a programming path since I was about 9. Was Math/Science in High School with Independent Study in various computer things. Majored in Computer Science in college... and have been programming for money for... ~24 years. On the flip side, for about 2 years of that 24 I have hated what I was doing and who I was working with. Luckily I worked at a big company where I was able to find an opportunity without major disruption in my life.

[LordMortis]

Hep, you're me!

Dude, every time I see you at an Octocon, I remind you that we're two peas in a pod. If I lived in Michigan, I'm fairly certain you and I'd be playing board games every Friday night and bitching about people.

I know, but you're smarter and more of a people person than I am. You got this!

Saturday afternoon is when I'd play. I'm too done on Friday nights to play games anymore.

[hepcat]

I wish I was really a people person. I've become grumpier and grumpier the last decade or so. So much so that I sometimes alienate even those I grew up with and that have been my life long friends. I really do think it's because I'm so miserable at work.

As for skill sets, don't overestimate mine (or my intelligence ). Being able to do something one day in IT doesn't mean it's needed the next. This field changes gears so fast it's ridiculous. I think the driving factor in success in IT is a desire to be in IT...and right now, I don't think I have that.

[stessier]

Do you think the insomnia could be playing into your feelings of dissatisfaction?

[LordMortis]

I wish I was really a people person. I've become grumpier and grumpier the last decade or so. So much so that I sometimes alienate even those I grew up with and that have been my life long friends. I really do think it's because I'm so miserable at work.

As for skill sets, don't overestimate mine (or my intelligence ). Being able to do something one day in IT doesn't mean it's needed the next. This field changes gears so fast it's ridiculous. I think the driving factor in success in IT is a desire to be in IT...and right now, I don't think I have that.

Here's to being alive and still employed and making it to an early retirement in 10 years!

[hepcat]

The insomnia may very well be exacerbated by it, but I don't think it caused it. The insomnia is quite literally a phobia of being unable to fall asleep for me that has built up over the years. To the point now where it needs to be addressed by a professional. Even if I was happy with work, I still think it would be an issue. It all started about 5 or 6 years ago when I was staying up late on weekends, then having trouble falling asleep on Sunday nights for work. Then it escalated to being afraid to staying up late for fear of not being able to get up in the morning on time, to eventually being afraid that I couldn't sleep at all at night if I needed to be up for any event whatsoever.

Here's to being alive and still employed and making it to an early retirement in 10 years!

I'll see you in 10 years with the board games in my car trunk.

[hepcat]

P.S. What do I owe you guys for this session?

[Jeff V]

P.S. What do I owe you guys for this session?

How much you got?

This might be redundant, but have you tried the usual things to mitigate insomnia -- no caffeine after noon, cut down or eliminate alcohol, no TV/computer an hour before bed? Exercise in the evening can help as well; a tired body is a sleepy one.

Stress can certainly be a cause though. I don't think I've slept more than an hour a night all week and this will likely go on until my personal drama comes to a conclusion. Exercise last night didn't help. Dry, itchy skin all week also has been distracting enough to keep me awake. I don't let me job stress me out though; about the only time that happens is if I screw something up and either beat myself up over it, or dread having to deal with reaction from the bosses. Fortunately, that is not very often. My sleep is subject to disruption at all hours of the night though should emergency tickets come in on any of my locations, or, more frequently, HVAC issues cause a data center to start melting down.

[LordMortis]

This might be redundant, but have you tried the usual things to mitigate insomnia -- no caffeine after noon, cut down or eliminate alcohol, no TV/computer an hour before bed?

This plus sleepapnia exacerbated by weight gain did it for me. Now all it takes is a medium sized meal and I am ready for sleep day or night.

[killbot737]

Time to rant a little, with a happy resolution!

For the past few months my work has really been getting me down. I have no passion for the project I'm working on the most, and we're using some new tools/applications that are really cranky and difficult to work with. It's been bad enough that recently I was thinking about switching teams even though I really love my team. It's just this one project (and certain individual who I believe lies somewhere on the Asperger's unpleasantness spectrum) that has been making my work life suck ass. We are also trying to do "Agile", which I also despise because nobody ever does it the way you're supposed to and it always turns into a daily micromanagement session.

So yesterday Asperger's is bringing up random topics that he pretends not to understand and I get pulled into doing a side project under the umbrella of this overall project, but it's really a standalone thing that will be much more useful that just for the one crap project. I start looking into it and it turns out to be something really cool! So now I can dump all the crap work that I've been doing and I can get back to doing what I really enjoy - the entire software lifecycle for a project that I am totally geeked about, which will have a huge helpful impact on all of our customers! Start to finish, all me. Go cowboy coders!

Yay!

I still might switch teams though. They're forming a brand new team for a certain new technology and I could be a founding member. I sort of am anyway because I was one of the first people to use the thing to do some projects, I'm just not on "that" team, I'm still on my current team.

[LordMortis]

Saw this on FB today and it about sums things up



I noticed he left out shower. Probably because the morning shower rocks. It rocks so hard I sometimes forget that I have to go to work and just become one with the water twenty minutes or more and end up late.

Just like they forgot to mention coffee, which is the only other good thing about work mornings.

[stessier]

Who sleeps in until 6:30?? And who needs an alarm clock????