The Art of the Donald Trumpocalypse

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:30 pm

Rip wrote:

It wouldn't be Trump without a misspelling.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:38 pm

Grifman wrote:That's the real scary thing about Trump's candidacy.

Agreed. Well said. (your whole post)

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:59 pm

So, The Donald is afraid of Megyn Kelly?

On Tuesday afternoon, Donald Trump (@realDonaldTrump) tweeted "Should I do the #GOPdebate?" with a Twitter poll and a link to an Instagram video of himself complaining about Kelly of Fox News, which is owned by Twenty-First Century Fox Inc (FOXA.O). She is expected to moderate the Thursday debate. "Megyn Kelly's really biased against me," Trump said in the video. "She knows that, I know that, everybody knows that. Do you really think she can be fair at a debate?" That same video garnered more than 190,000 views on Facebook in roughly an hour. The poll, which was embedded in Trump's tweet, showed a near-split between respondents who felt he should attend the debate (52 percent) and those who felt he should skip it (48 percent). Overall, the poll had received more than 11,000 responses in the first two hours after it went live.

Fox News appeared unfazed by Trump's comments. “We learned from a secret back channel that the Ayatollah and Putin both intend to treat Donald Trump unfairly when they meet with him if he becomes president," a spokesperson for Fox News said. "A nefarious source tells us that Trump has his own secret plan to replace the Cabinet with his Twitter followers to see if he should even go to those meetings.”

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:03 pm

So, let's see...

Trump brags about his stuff, insults minorities, claims to have slept with models, bullies his cohort, wastes other peoples' money, likes shitty music, skips his homework, hates rules, lies on social media, wears trucker caps, and runs away when a girl talks back to him.

I think it's time to revisit his eligibility on the basis that he is only 15 years old.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:15 pm

WaPo

But what does seem slightly more plausible is that he would try to use the specter of his absence — and the presumptive ratings drop that would follow — to pressure Fox News into replacing Kelly. We're talking about an ultimatum: Trump on the stage or Kelly at the desk. Your choice, Roger Ailes.
...
Well, Ailes has news for Trump. If it comes down to a choice between Trump or Kelly, he'll pick Kelly.

"Megyn Kelly is an excellent journalist, and the entire network stands behind her," Ailes said in a statement to The Fix. "She will absolutely be on the debate stage on Thursday night."
...
It's pretty clear what Trump is doing here: He's whining about Kelly now so that if she gets the better of him Thursday night, he'll have a built-in excuse. He'll be able to say, 'See, I knew I wouldn't get a fair shake. What did you expect?'

And The Fix's Chris Cillizza shared a little secret before the last GOP debate a couple of weeks ago: Trump isn't a great debater. Well, here's another little secret: He knows it.

Trump isn't terrible in debates, but he's not as good as he is on the stump, and he's not as good as top rival Ted Cruz. Though he declares himself the winner of every debate, his poll numbers tend to dip after these rhetorical clashes.

With less than a week remaining before the Iowa caucuses, Trump is giving himself cover by crying foul before Thursday's debate even begins. Unfortunately for him, Fox News won't be replacing his least-favorite referee.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:19 pm

Trump still strikes me as something of a, well, a sideshow attraction (well titled, thread, well titled). While some people may be drawn to him for some of his views (or views he's claimed), I think a lot of his attraction is fame and attitude and cult of personality (no, I don't understand it, but then I don't understand reality shows either). I don't think he believes most of what he says because most of what he says is bullshit he comes up with on the spot that will get him attention (hence why his platform, what it is, is incoherent). Certainly, I'm worried about him being president, but more because he wouldn't know what the hell he was doing than that he would try to be an evil dictator.

While it's certainly worrying that others would try to imitate his... technique(?), I don't think most people would be anywhere as successful as he is.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:23 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:WaPo

But what does seem slightly more plausible is that he would try to use the specter of his absence — and the presumptive ratings drop that would follow — to pressure Fox News into replacing Kelly. We're talking about an ultimatum: Trump on the stage or Kelly at the desk. Your choice, Roger Ailes.
...
Well, Ailes has news for Trump. If it comes down to a choice between Trump or Kelly, he'll pick Kelly.

...

He did this before (threatening not to participate). It's a good strategy. He'll be there, but if the questions seem too aggressive then he can claim Maverickhood and say that Fox is part of the Republican machine trying to stop his campaign.

He's leveraging his outsider status: taking on a Fox icon makes him seem bolder and more independent than the rest. It's all part of being a terrifyingly good right-wing campaigner.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:51 pm

I find it hilarious that Trump is fighting with the network that actually supports most of the crazy bigoted garbage he is spouting.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:29 pm

Trump is out of the debate.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:58 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:Trump is out of the debate.

Well that's quite a move. Everything Trump does is calculated, and I don't think he's genuinely afraid of Fox or debates.

Maybe the intention is to seize the nomination by presenting himself as having already won it? Trump expects to win Iowa, and he will go on to win new Hampshire as well. Polls (FWIW) show him ahead everywhere else it matters, up to and including Super Tuesday. He has built his career on looking like a winner (no matter how insubstantial the reality), and this move might be the ultimate expression of that.

He's gambling that his absence makes everyone else look small. The danger is that the whole field might unite in the appearance of an anti-Trump coalition, giving some Republicans second thoughts about him.

Maybe what he really wants is for everyone present to demolish Cruz, since Trump's absence makes Cruz highest-polling target on the stage.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:04 pm

He is gambling the ratings will suck and they will.

He will claim it is because he didn't go which is part of the truth.

Smart move.

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:58 pm

Pure showmanship. Trump dominates headlines for a couple more days heading into the Iowa caucus, and the mutual shit-talking between him and Fox builds drama and hype heading into the debate. I wouldn't be surprised if some concession is made at the last moment-- maybe just an apology from Fox for the goading press release-- and Trump agrees to participate in the debate after all. End result, huge ratings and Trump takes credit.

In other words, this might just be the political equivalent of wrestlers talking trash in advance of Wrestlemania, and just as genuine. Politics as money-making reality TV.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:07 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:Trump is out of the debate.

He should offer to debate Hilary or Bernie on CNN at the same time. I would watch that

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:31 pm

Captain Caveman wrote:Pure showmanship. Trump dominates headlines for a couple more days heading into the Iowa caucus, and the mutual shit-talking between him and Fox builds drama and hype heading into the debate. I wouldn't be surprised if some concession is made at the last moment-- maybe just an apology from Fox for the goading press release-- and Trump agrees to participate in the debate after all. End result, huge ratings and Trump takes credit.

In other words, this might just be most certainly is the political equivalent of wrestlers talking trash in advance of Wrestlemania, and just as genuine. Politics as money-making reality TV.

Mortoned

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:23 am

Debates are Trump's weakest vehicle because his bombast is ill-suited to a structured Q&A format. Appearing in this one would not have improved his standing and might have harmed it. It's axiomatic that debates favor challengers anyway. With Trump's commanding lead, this is a smart move for him.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:24 am

He's asserting that he's above the process and not bound by normal rules. But the debates are a party thing, not just a media thing, and he's giving the GOP the finger just as they're starting to come around to his inevitability.

This might be a real misstep. If the "Trump fears Megyn Kelly" meme takes hold, it could hurt his brand.

That he chose to double-down on a feud with Fox during the GOP primary really shows the relentless ego at work here. Did Roger Ailes refuse to buy one of Trump's buildings or something?

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:28 am

Giving a finger to the process is part of his schtick.

No worries that the meme will take off, if it was going to, it already would have.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:36 am

Rip wrote:No worries that the meme will take off, if it was going to, it already would have.

Not so sure. Last time he growled at her. This time he slunk away.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:57 am

Holman wrote:
Rip wrote:No worries that the meme will take off, if it was going to, it already would have.
Not so sure. Last time he growled at her. This time he slunk away.

Everything, I'm seeing is that he's going to come out of this squeaky clean as most of his base don't think kindly of intellectual women. Most probably want them barefoot and at home minding the children.

It's shocking the RNC hasn't made a comment on this

That right there is very telling...

Teggy · Post by **Teggy** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:39 pm

I think this does nothing to him here but the GE is a different story. A commercial with Hillary being grilled by congress set against his fear of Megyn Kelly kind of writes itself.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:50 pm

Just for you guys.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/v ... rally.html

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:29 pm

Rip wrote:Just for you guys.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/v ... rally.html

Other than physically, how does she differ from your average Trump supporter?

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:37 pm

tgb wrote:
Rip wrote:Just for you guys.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/v ... rally.html
Other than physically, how does she differ from your average Trump supporter?

More emotional control?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:21 pm

Salon

“I don’t know what games Roger Ailes is playing,” an enraged Donald Trump said at a Tuesday night press conference announcing his planned boycott of this week’s upcoming Fox News republican presidential debate after the power cable news boss signed-off on a snarky press release mocking Trump’s complaints.
...
“Who would ever say something so nasty and dumb?” Trump asked on Tuesday, dumbfounded that the network that had once hosted him for weekly “Fox & Friends” segments had finally turned to releasing a press statement joking that “a nefarious source tells us that Trump has his own secret plan to replace the Cabinet with his Twitter followers to see if he should even go to” meet with Putin and the Ayatollah as president.

Well, according to both Sherman’s reporting and reporting by CNN’s Brian Stelter, Ailes did indeed approve of the network’s diss. In fact, Ailes has cooled off his past relationship with Trump so much that Sherman reports “last night, Ailes directed Sean Hannity to cancel Trump’s [scheduled] interview.”
...
While many on Fox have done their best to circle the wagon in defense of Megyn Kelly (it’s Trump’s sexist reaction to her first debate question that set this whole feud off), at least one prominent Fox News anchor is defying the boss’ orders to keep an open line to Trump.
...
From Sherman:

In a further challenge to Ailes’s power, Bill O’Reilly is scheduled to host Trump [Wednesday night]. Last night, Ailes directed Sean Hannity to cancel Trump’s interview. O’Reilly’s refusal to abide by a ban adds a new dynamic to the clash of egos. For O’Reilly, this is an opportunity to take back star power from Kelly. Sources say O’Reilly feels he made Kelly’s career by promoting her on his show, and he’s been furious that Kelly surpassed him in the ratings.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:24 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:Salon

“I don’t know what games Roger Ailes is playing,” an enraged Donald Trump said at a Tuesday night press conference announcing his planned boycott of this week’s upcoming Fox News republican presidential debate after the power cable news boss signed-off on a snarky press release mocking Trump’s complaints.
...
“Who would ever say something so nasty and dumb?” Trump asked on Tuesday, dumbfounded that the network that had once hosted him for weekly “Fox & Friends” segments had finally turned to releasing a press statement joking that “a nefarious source tells us that Trump has his own secret plan to replace the Cabinet with his Twitter followers to see if he should even go to” meet with Putin and the Ayatollah as president.

Well, according to both Sherman’s reporting and reporting by CNN’s Brian Stelter, Ailes did indeed approve of the network’s diss. In fact, Ailes has cooled off his past relationship with Trump so much that Sherman reports “last night, Ailes directed Sean Hannity to cancel Trump’s [scheduled] interview.”
...
While many on Fox have done their best to circle the wagon in defense of Megyn Kelly (it’s Trump’s sexist reaction to her first debate question that set this whole feud off), at least one prominent Fox News anchor is defying the boss’ orders to keep an open line to Trump.
...
From Sherman:

In a further challenge to Ailes’s power, Bill O’Reilly is scheduled to host Trump [Wednesday night]. Last night, Ailes directed Sean Hannity to cancel Trump’s interview. O’Reilly’s refusal to abide by a ban adds a new dynamic to the clash of egos. For O’Reilly, this is an opportunity to take back star power from Kelly. Sources say O’Reilly feels he made Kelly’s career by promoting her on his show, and he’s been furious that Kelly surpassed him in the ratings.

^People who refuse to admit that high school is over.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:30 pm

Kraken wrote:Debates are Trump's weakest vehicle because his bombast is ill-suited to a structured Q&A format. Appearing in this one would not have improved his standing and might have harmed it. It's axiomatic that debates favor challengers anyway. With Trump's commanding lead, this is a smart move for him.

I absolutely agree with this. I haven't looked at the latest polls from Iowa, but I know Trump is dominating them. There's no reason for him to participate this close to the caucuses. Its got more potential to do him harm than good. He's already way ahead of everyone, why lower himself to their level? Why give the other challengers a chance to get a one up on him at his expense? Why give them an opportunity to hit him with a zinger that he cant counter? This is a cunningly good move. Now the reasoning, ie Kelly, seems petulant and childish.

I kind of hope that the debate is more substantial without his insults and sound bites.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:32 pm

So now Trump has announced his own counter-event running simultaneous with the debate. He's inviting all of the networks to cover it, and presumably it won't be just a stump speech. I doubt the TV will be able to look away.

Not content with running against the other candidates, Trump is now running against the RNC. It sounds an awful lot like someone preparing for an independent candidacy if the nomination somehow doesn't satisfy him.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:41 pm

Holman wrote:So now Trump has announced his own counter-event running simultaneous with the debate. He's inviting all of the networks to cover it, and presumably it won't be just a stump speech. I doubt the TV will be able to look away.

Not content with running against the other candidates, Trump is now running against the RNC. It sounds an awful lot like someone preparing for an independent candidacy if the nomination somehow doesn't satisfy him.

Don't tell me we're going to manage to have a 4 way race between Cruz, Trump, Sanders and Bloomberg?

I'd love to see the polling on that, for curiosity's sake.

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:09 pm

I heard somewhere that if that happens and no one gets 50% then it goes to VPs and if they can't settle it there, then it goes to Congress or something like that and they can pick whoever? Something like that. It gets convoluted.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:19 pm

tjg_marantz wrote:I heard somewhere that if that happens and no one gets 50% then it goes to VPs and if they can't settle it there, then it goes to Congress or something like that and they can pick whoever? Something like that. It gets convoluted.

Only if more than one candidate somehow survives Thunderdome.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:21 pm

Newcastle wrote:
Kraken wrote:Debates are Trump's weakest vehicle because his bombast is ill-suited to a structured Q&A format. Appearing in this one would not have improved his standing and might have harmed it. It's axiomatic that debates favor challengers anyway. With Trump's commanding lead, this is a smart move for him.
I absolutely agree with this. I haven't looked at the latest polls from Iowa, but I know Trump is dominating them. There's no reason for him to participate this close to the caucuses. Its got more potential to do him harm than good. He's already way ahead of everyone, why lower himself to their level? Why give the other challengers a chance to get a one up on him at his expense? Why give them an opportunity to hit him with a zinger that he cant counter? This is a cunningly good move. Now the reasoning, ie Kelly, seems petulant and childish.

I kind of hope that the debate is more substantial without his insults and sound bites.

I heard today that Clinton tried to bait Sanders into debating her again before the primaries. He's not biting, so apparently there's going to be a Clinton-O'Malley debate. Hah. The funny comes from Clinton originally limiting debates because she was the frontrunner...she's singing a different tune now that she's falling behind.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:26 pm

Grifman wrote:Trump scares me. Not because he's Trump, but because of what his popularity says about the American people, or at least a large segment of them. Not to Godwinize the thread, but now I see how a Hitler like authoritarian figure could come to power in the US.

People are angry because the government doesn't seem to be working for them and I get that. Trump channels that anger, he's angry, they like that. Hitler was also an angry man who promised to make the ineffective govt of Germany work again for the people.

People don't pay any attention to what he says, and if it is outrageous, they excuse it because he's just not being "politically correct", or well, he doesn't really mean it, he's just saying it for effect. Well, I despise political correctness and the left's thought police, but Trump isn't politically incorrect, what he says if far beyond that. He has publicly put down or mocked Latinos, women, the disabled and Muslims. Hitler attacked the Communists and Jews and other minorities, and nobody thought he's really do what he said or hinted he would. He would moderate when he actually got power, they thought.

Trump says he wants to make America great again. Well, Hitler promised the same thing, Germany need to force other nations to respect it, and it needed to take its rightful place in Europe. How is Trump's message any different?

Trump has a clear authoritarian streak. You see that in his ego-centric talk about how "I will do this, and I will do that". He has praised Russia's Putin, who has been recently revealed, probably ordered the poisoning of a dissident leader in London. Even more bewilderingly, he has said positive things about North's Korea's brutal dictator. How does he get away with that? If any other American leader had praised Kim Jung-un, they'd be ridiculed and raked over the coals. But no, people don't care because they're angry and Trump is angry.

Now, I'm not saying Trump is another Hitler, not by any means close. But it is interesting and sad, how closely his political campaign is similar. I think it shows that a large segment of Americans are willing to forget and compromise this country's fundamental principles if they can find someone who can channel their anger and frustration. That's the real scary thing about Trump's candidacy.

This is the end game of the ploy the GOP has been running for decades tho. Cruz is actually scarier.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:17 pm

Pyperkub wrote:
This is the end game of the ploy the GOP has been running for decades tho. Cruz is actually scarier.

GOP has made this bed by bringing the tea-party into their fold and Fox New, also helped with their "fair and impartial" news reporting. Isn't it funny Trump is now kicking them in their teeth. Sadly, compromise has been made into a dirty word for the GOP. It's their way or the highway.

As a centrist Dem while I philosophically oppose some of the GOP ideas I don't hate them, but for some of the GOP/Tea-Party they actually hate and despise the other side. I just don't understand hating another American

I agree Cruz, scares the shit out of me more than Trump. When your fellow GOP Senators openly despise you that should tell you something

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:20 pm

Trump's counter-event is shaping up as some sort of Support Our Troops rally. Among current candidates, Huckabee has committed to being there. One other, at least, is also said to be attending. It's like a Three Stooges version of the Night of the Long Knives.

I predict that Sarah Palin will be there, and I predict that it will be a festival of rage and crazy.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:23 pm

Maybe Fox should put up an empty podium for the others to talk to.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:24 pm

This is definitely shaping up to be the weirdest election since Ross Perot ran in '92.

Unfortunately, I don't see how the US political process comes out of this looking in any way, shape, or form even remotely competent. No matter who wins, there's nobody up there that can heal the rancor and division that has seized the country for more than a decade. In fact, it's probably the opposite - whoever wins will probably be so polarizing they wind up throwing even more fuel on the fire.

It boggles the mind that after eight years of Obama, this is the best and brightest America has to offer to be the next leader of the free world.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:33 pm

YellowKing wrote:This is definitely shaping up to be the weirdest election since Ross Perot ran in '92.

Unfortunately, I don't see how the US political process comes out of this looking in any way, shape, or form even remotely competent. No matter who wins, there's nobody up there that can heal the rancor and division that has seized the country for more than a decade. In fact, it's probably the opposite - whoever wins will probably be so polarizing they wind up throwing even more fuel on the fire.

I'd have said this before the elections in 08 just like you did. Now it's been more than two decades and nobody on the left or right want "healing" any more. Their careers are made on division.

Heck, all these years later and I'm still all about the fracturing of the right. Let "conservatism" go pound salt and give me a responsible right that is filled with bean counters but who also recognize that isn't Christian America and isn't Colonial America and are willing to see that we need an infrastructure overhaul and we need to tax the wealthy to do it while reeling in the power Multinationals. Oh and recognize that free market, while a good tool for a civil society, does not answer ever question correctly.

It's truly fucked up that not only have been on the side of the left for as long as I can remember but that I've been on the side of "the progressive left"

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:36 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:Maybe Fox should put up a podium with a cardboard cutout of Trump for the others to talk to.

FTFY

Edit: Then again, that would probably just increase his popularity.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:39 pm

Defiant wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:Maybe Fox should put up a podium with a cardboard cutout of Trump for the others to talk to.
FTFY

Edit: Then again, that would probably just increase his popularity.

Put up a hologram of him, and play recordings of random Trump soundbites from the campaign whenever he is asked a question. See if anyone even notices.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:43 pm

This made me laugh:

"Politics is supposed to be boring," said Eakins, who will turn 18 by primary day. "So when three 18-year-old kids are driving out 30 minutes to go to a Trump rally, I mean -- that's a movement."