Borderlands 2 - Impressions start Page 5

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:43 pm

I will be starting back up here in a couple of weeks with the kids, just as soon as we finish our run in the original (we're on the final DLC now.) What is the standard wisdom for running two playthroughs plus DLC without getting either overwhelmed or overpowered? Is it still playthrough, playthrough 2, then DLC?

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:41 am

Not sure. I would suggest skipping the side missions on the second playthrough. My guide (if you want to keep it challenging at all) is to stick to story missions until the loot that drops is 1-2 levels higher than you are. Then do side missions until you catch up.

You could probably dabble in the DLC to pick up the missing levels, but then you'd be doing them in chunks.

Best bet is probably to look online. (If you haven't already.) I get confused on which things level up with you and which don't. If you do all the DLC, though, you'll probably find yourself overpowered anyway.

If you do all the side missions on the first run, then you'll be overpowered anyway by the time you get to the boss. If you stick more to the story, then you could probably squeeze one DLC in between the two runs. It'll mean that you'll be a bit overpowered when you start the second run, but it probably won't take too long, if you stick to the story, to get "caught up".

miltonite · Post by **miltonite** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:23 am

Bad Demographic wrote: I have a level 53 or so gunzerker and can help you out if you need/want.

And I have a 72 Salvador (tank spec) that I can bring out to play as well.

Blackhawk wrote:I will be starting back up here in a couple of weeks with the kids, just as soon as we finish our run in the original (we're on the final DLC now.) What is the standard wisdom for running two playthroughs plus DLC without getting either overwhelmed or overpowered? Is it still playthrough, playthrough 2, then DLC?

The way we did it was playthrough the full game twice then go the the expansions. Everything scaled well and we were still getting killed from time to time in all the DLC's when we were not focusing fire and pulling too many enemies.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:18 am

TheMix wrote: Best bet is probably to look online. (If you haven't already.) I get confused on which things level up with you and which don't.

I have looked. The problem is that virtually every answer I've seen is from the people who want to min-max the endgame. The advice for that is usually to do playthrough one, do the DLC, then you'll be powerful enough to speed through playthrough two, doing only story quests and those that drop green or lower items, then activating the endgame and picking up the remainder of the quests which get automagically bumped up to your current level, then doing the DLC, then farming.

Or something like that. Blech.

We're not interested in min-maxing, nor are we interested in grinding and farming for hours on end to get as insanely powerful as possible before... quitting? I've never gotten that aspect of some games - powering through the first 90% without enjoying it in order to obsess with the final 10%. I'm just looking to avoid the Borderlands 1 problems with getting so powerful that nothing is challenging, easily caused by doing the DLC on the first playthrough.

Note that I've played through BL2 at least three times. It has been a while, though, and I don't remember the smoothest path through the content.

Bad Demographic · Post by **Bad Demographic** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:37 pm

Bob and I started a new game so I could try out the Siren. Partway through the 1st runthrough (Normal mode) we decided to just do the storyline quests because so many of the sidequests were too easy. We did this until the mobs were a little too tough (when they have skulls next to their names/descriptions). At that point we went back and did enough side quests to go up about 2 levels, then we finished the game. We're now ready to start TVHM and will probably do a few side quests (but not a lot) and fill in with DLC. We're thinking that this way the DLCs (we may only do Tiny Tina's and Mr. Torgue's - although there's at least one reward gun I like in Captain Scarlett's) will be challenging but not too tough.

miltonite · Post by **miltonite** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:38 pm

Blackhawk wrote: I have looked. The problem is that virtually every answer I've seen is from the people who want to min-max the endgame. The advice for that is usually to do playthrough one, do the DLC, then you'll be powerful enough to speed through playthrough two, doing only story quests and those that drop green or lower items, then activating the endgame and picking up the remainder of the quests which get automagically bumped up to your current level, then doing the DLC, then farming.

Or something like that. Blech.

We're not interested in min-maxing, nor are we interested in grinding and farming for hours on end to get as insanely powerful as possible before... quitting? I've never gotten that aspect of some games - powering through the first 90% without enjoying it in order to obsess with the final 10%. I'm just looking to avoid the Borderlands 1 problems with getting so powerful that nothing is challenging, easily caused by doing the DLC on the first playthrough.

Note that I've played through BL2 at least three times. It has been a while, though, and I don't remember the smoothest path through the content.

miltonite wrote: The way we did it was playthrough the full game twice then go the the expansions. Everything scaled well and we were still getting killed from time to time in all the DLC's when we were not focusing fire and pulling too many enemies.

We = Me, Grifman, Teggy and Arcanis.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:05 pm

A couple of questions then.

Well, first, a statement... I think it will be hard to keep the game challenging. And do all the DLC. But I may be wrong.

1) Do you have access to UVHM? That might expand your options.
2) Anyone know how the DLC auto-levels?

As I recall, you are expected to be around level 30 when you finish normal. TVHM ends around 50. I think that was the cap. So.... what I'm not sure about, is whether the mobs will continue to level with you if you pass 50. So if you are 55+ when you hit the end of TVHM, are you going to be fighting mobs several levels below you? If so, you won't have much of a challenge.

The DLC may work differently, however. Hence question number 2. If the DLC automatically levels with you, then it really won't matter what level you tackle it at. The big problem will be that it will remove any challenge when you go back to the main game. So if you start off with one of the DLC in TVHM, by the time you finish it you will have WAY out leveled the mobs in the main game. Then you'll be able to breeze through story quests to "catch up". You could then do another DLC. Rinse and repeat. This will mean that the story for TVHM will be essentially be yawn.

If, however, the DLC auto levels, and you aren't really concerned with doing UVHM, then what you suggested (and miltonite confirmed), should be fine. To keep some challenge, I'd suggest doing as BD recommended. Stick to the story quests until you get out leveled (though I usually go by the ability to use the loot that is dropping rather than the mobs getting skulls - though either should work), then do some side quests to catch up. For side quests, I will usually do those that give eridium as a reward. And good weapons (purple or higher - or ones I know like Moxxi's shotgun).

The only thing that might do is make UVHM a lot easier, should you try it out. Maybe. At least until it caught up more. Though that would depend, I guess, on how many levels you actually got from the DLCs.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:08 am

Finally finished Sawtooth. Even saved...well at least temporarily...the fish.

Bad Demographic · Post by **Bad Demographic** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:12 pm

stessier wrote:Finally finished Sawtooth. Even saved...well at least temporarily...the fish.

The best things about Sawtooth are:
1) Brick's response if you jump off the tower
2) once you've cleared the way to the top of the tower you can immediately do the challenge where you have to run from the beginning to the top of the tower in 2 minutes

Oh, and even better, you're done with Sawtooth.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:25 pm

Bad Demographic wrote:2) once you've cleared the way to the top of the tower you can immediately do the challenge where you have to run from the beginning to the top of the tower in 2 minutes

I didn't know that was a challenge. I won't try it with Zero. Maya could be fun though.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:46 pm

stessier wrote:
Bad Demographic wrote:2) once you've cleared the way to the top of the tower you can immediately do the challenge where you have to run from the beginning to the top of the tower in 2 minutes
I didn't know that was a challenge. I won't try it with Zero. Maya could be fun though.

I think I knew about that challenge. But it never occurred to me to try it after a run.

Bad Demographic · Post by **Bad Demographic** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:49 pm

Actually, Sawtooth is kind of fun with Salvador once you get him to the point where he can 'zerk as long as he is killing mobs, especially if one of your guns is an Infinity pistol. You can have a lot of fun with Salvador with an Infinity pistol and an Unkempt Harold.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:08 pm

Bad Demographic wrote:Actually, Sawtooth is kind of fun with Salvador once you get him to the point where he can 'zerk as long as he is killing mobs, especially if one of your guns is an Infinity pistol. You can have a lot of fun with Salvador with an Infinity pistol and an Unkempt Harold.

One of my load-outs is 2 Harolds. Burns through ammo, but is beautiful to see!

For a while I ran with 2 Infinity pistols. But then I out leveled them too much.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:51 pm

Brainstorming out loud now.
So, before the kids left for a few days with their mother, I asked them which characters they wanted to play for BL2. We are one or two days away from finishing BL1, and I wanted to do some research so as to give them build advice.

Youngest picked a sniper Zer0. Eldest picked Axton.

My first choice, before they picked, was a sniper Zer0. My fallback was Axton.

That leaves me with Maya (already played twice through with her), Krieg (maayybe), Gaige (already played through once with her), and Salvador (who has never appealed to me all that much, as rampage-y tactics aren't what I usually go for. I prefer quick and precise shooting.)

So...

Gaige - I could get by with any weapon if I specced away from Anarchy, I suppose, but that would mean speccing into the bot, which isn't what I prefer, as I like to do the killing myself with any pets as support. I may have to fiddle around with builds and see what I can do that is effective, but neither Anarchy-y nor reliant on the bot to play the game for me. That also means I don't have much flexibility in builds, which can make long games drag.

Maya - With sniper Zer0 + Axton, Phaselock could be really useful, but I've played her twice through, and am just finishing up a double Lilith run in BL1, which given my first playthrough makes six siren runs. Lots of flexibility if I felt like respeccing for a change of pace.

Salvador - Even if the gameplay doesn't appeal that much, he has the benefit of at least being something new. Some flexibility to respec here, too.

Krieg - I'd have to spec around melee. Apparently this may be possible with the Hellborn tree, but I'm not sure I'd like how it plays, and there wouldn't be much flexibility. We'll have to see.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:10 pm

My vote is Krieg.

For the fun factor. Not necessarily for you, but for your sons. Krieg has some great lines. However, what you hear yourself say and what they hear you say are two totally different things.

I also found him a bit challenging to play depending on how you go. With his ability, you really have to get right into the thick of it. Which may mean that they will have to bail you out if things go wrong. That might make for more exciting gaming than if you all three sat back and destroyed from afar.

Plus, if you go fire, then they get to watch you set yourself on fire all the time (you don't get to see it yourself

).

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:13 pm

TheMix wrote:With his ability, you really have to get right into the thick of it. Which may mean that they will have to bail you out if things go wrong. That might make for more exciting gaming than if you all three sat back and destroyed from afar.

That's actually one of the things I'm trying to avoid. My Lilith playthrough focused on Phoenix and SMGs with kill skills, so I was always, constantly running right into the middle of things. I need a change.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:02 pm

Zero has completed TVH mode. Chapter 18 was significantly easier than what it took to get there. Ended at Level 51. Good timing as I can start back to the gym on Tuesday and my play time is going to drop significantly.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:14 pm

We've settled, by the way. It will be Eldest on Axton with a Guerrilla build, Youngest on Salvador with a Gunlust build with a dip in Brawn for survivability, and me on Maya with a Harmony/Cataclysm build.

grumpy · Post by **grumpy** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:21 pm

TheMix wrote:I think it will be hard to keep the game challenging. And do all the DLC. But I may be wrong.

1) Do you have access to UVHM? That might expand your options.
2) Anyone know how the DLC auto-levels?

I haven't followed the discussion closely:

In TVHM, DLC autoscaling depends on if you've completed the main story or not. If you haven't, DLC areas will autoscale to the level you are when you first enter them, and won't change until you complete the main story line. So if you pop in for a look at level 32, do a bunch elsewhere, and pop back in at 40, the area will still be scaled for 32. When you finish the main story, all areas are re-scaled to level 50.

In UVHM, the autoscaler is pegged to something like the minimum of 50 or your current level. As long as you're 50+, you can do content in any order. The only thing that won't scale is an accepted quest's rewards.

You won't lack for scaled difficulty while doing all the DLC you please given UVHM access, especially if you try the overpower levels.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:27 pm

grumpy wrote:In TVHM, DLC autoscaling depends on if you've completed the main story or not. If you haven't, DLC areas will autoscale to the level you are when you first enter them, and won't change until you complete the main story line. So if you pop in for a look at level 32, do a bunch elsewhere, and pop back in at 40, the area will still be scaled for 32. When you finish the main story, all areas are re-scaled to level 50.

Ahhhh... I knew there was something going on, but I wasn't exactly sure what. I knew that they would all be 50 if you did them after completing the story line, but I didn't realize that they would re-scale. That was my confusion. They are your level when you enter them, but then they are 50... Confusing. Thanks for clearing it up!

gilraen · Post by **gilraen** » Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:20 am

TheMix wrote: Ahhhh... I knew there was something going on, but I wasn't exactly sure what. I knew that they would all be 50 if you did them after completing the story line, but I didn't realize that they would re-scale. That was my confusion. They are your level when you enter them, but then they are 50... Confusing. Thanks for clearing it up!

The DLCs is not the only thing that autoscales. If you recall my fiasco with finishing 2nd playthrough on Gaige and going back to finish some side quests... and rage-quitting after getting one-shot by mobs that went from being 31-32 to 50.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:04 am

gilraen wrote:
TheMix wrote: Ahhhh... I knew there was something going on, but I wasn't exactly sure what. I knew that they would all be 50 if you did them after completing the story line, but I didn't realize that they would re-scale. That was my confusion. They are your level when you enter them, but then they are 50... Confusing. Thanks for clearing it up!
The DLCs is not the only thing that autoscales. If you recall my fiasco with finishing 2nd playthrough on Gaige and going back to finish some side quests... and rage-quitting after getting one-shot by mobs that went from being 31-32 to 50.

Hmmm... I don't recall that. Were you still using level 18-20 weapons though?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:29 pm

Wow - Maya starting TVH with the Bee is just walking through people. I've never enjoyed the Symbiosis mission - that town is way harder than seems right for the beginning - but she walked through it without flinching. Taking down Boom-boom is going to be fun!

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:56 pm

My gosh, she's still walking through things - just took down Wilhelm. The Bee with her cataclysm powers makes this really, really fun.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:11 pm

Mechromancer and Psycho packs are on sale through March 22 for $3.29 each - 67% off of $9.99. (The Pre-Sequel is on sale for $15.99 - 60% of $39.99.) All on Steam.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:13 pm

Pre-Sequel Season Pass is $15, still too much for my blood, especially since I'm not done with 2 yet.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:52 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:Pre-Sequel Season Pass is $15, still too much for my blood, especially since I'm not done with 2 yet.

Stupid question - do you have to buy the Pre-Sequel and the Pre-Sequel Season Pass, or just the Season Pass?

I think Chris Hardwick is doing some of the voices for that one.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:03 pm

They are still separate items at the moment, but for those who have neither, they're bundled for $20.99.

Bad Demographic · Post by **Bad Demographic** » Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:22 pm

Fwiw, I didn't like the PreSequel anywhere nearly as much as 2, largely because you work for Jack. But I didn't find the playable characters as likeable as the ones in Borderlands 2.
Also, I skipped most of the DLC for the PreSequel. I only got the Claptastic Voyage which I did enjoy. I guess I liked it more than the PreSequel.

Bad Demographic · Post by **Bad Demographic** » Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:45 pm

In case you wanted to buy DLC or the PreSequel, it appears to be one sale this weekend at up to 80% off. Looks like the PreSequel plus its Season Pass is 20.99.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:22 pm

I ended up just going with the Psycho and Mechromancer packs. I started a Psycho this morning and got it up to Level 5. His ability is intriguing.

Bad Demographic · Post by **Bad Demographic** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:52 pm

stessier wrote:I ended up just going with the Psycho and Mechromancer packs. I started a Psycho this morning and got it up to Level 5. His ability is intriguing.

I mostly enjoyed playing Krieg. Apparently a couple of his Buzzsaw skills work really well together - sadly I didn't pick up on that when I played him. I did really find it fun when he could go into badass psycho mode. Also, his inner dialogs were were interesting.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:56 am

Up to Level 7 - I'm not sure I'm playing him the way he was intended. My Krieg is a bit more philosophical and cultured - he prefers to do his work at arms length. He has a very nice sniper rifle and an orange machine gun that launches rockets and double explodes on contact (can't remember the name at the moment). Only when things get hairy does he go into psycho mode and go all (w)hack a mole.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:10 pm

Krieg can be played a number of different ways, just like everyone else. Sure he's portrayed as a crazed savage, but he's not, really. His introduction video was an awesome piece of work.

Anyway, play him any way you want. The first run through of the game can be finished with any build of any class, including not spending a single point in the skill tree. i.e. the first play through is very forgiving.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:53 pm

Wait - he has an introduction video? Where do I see that?!? Do I just have to let the beginning play again now that I have the Mechromancer and Psycho packs?

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:18 pm

stessier wrote:Wait - he has an introduction video? Where do I see that?!? Do I just have to let the beginning play again now that I have the Mechromancer and Psycho packs?

Promo videos were released prior to the classes being available. A quick search on youtube should find you what I'm talking about. The Psycho one is the best one of them all, imo. I'd provide a link if I was at home. They aren't available in game, I don't think.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:23 pm

I'm pretty sure this one is what GG is referring to.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:53 am

That's the one.

I've leveled a few kriegs through each of their skill trees and I'd put the middle and right trees about even in terms of fun. If you like melee, then the middle tree is more fun, while if you like to shoot things (more than axe them to death) the right tree is the more fun one. It's quite a lot of fun trying to light everything (including yourself) on fire. The left tree is actually pretty boring, although the apex skill is a game changer. So imo you can base a krieg build around either the middle or right trees, with the left tree being support for either of them.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:49 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:I'm pretty sure this one is what GG is referring to.

Okay, that was pretty great. That also totally matches what I imagine my guy thinking with my current play style.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:30 pm

I dabbled in Krieg. I was playing with the missus, and we peetered out on that pairing. So I think he only got to about level 30. But I did find that early on he was easier to play using weapons. You just don't have enough skill points to make his ability very useful. I gave up on throwing dynamite during FFYL. I could never seem to get it to work. Once you have some levels, though, you can actually start working on the synergies. The really interesting thing is playing in the same room with someone else... I'd hear myself say one thing over my speakers, but something else entirely would come out of her speakers.