hepcat wrote:
All of it is protectionist nonsense. If we impose barriers to trade, our trading partners will do the same. While we may gain some jobs by avoiding import competition, we will lose export-sector jobs (which tend to pay about 16% more than import-competing jobs, on average). Trump is playing on workers fears and feeding into the notion that specialization and free, voluntary exchange - which we all do on a daily basis to our individual and, thus, collective betterment - is somehow contrary to our best interests.
We won't be gaining that many jobs because the majority of the people don't want to pay $50 for a pair of socks or $10,000 for their flat-screen TVs. Of course, such decisions are being made by out-of-touch people who can and do pay such prices as a matter of course.
Or maybe they think that their extended agenda of abolishing minimum was would allow US workers to snap up those $2/per hour jobs that would keep prices in line with what we've grown accustomed to paying.
Whether or not your agree with Donald Trump's overall message, his view on U.S. trade makes sense, said CNBC's Jim Cramer.
"I'm with Trump on this. Look, we lose on every trade deal. I ask all these people from either party: name me one trade deal we have had a surplus on in the last decade. They can't name any," Cramer said on "Squawk Box" on Thursday. "I always find it amusing to think people don't seem to mind that we lose in these deals because we're able to export a lot of premium products that are not made necessarily by people in our workforce."
Cramer said the only person to discuss the trade deficit before the election was Trump.
All of it is protectionist nonsense. If we impose barriers to trade, our trading partners will do the same. While we may gain some jobs by avoiding import competition, we will lose export-sector jobs (which tend to pay about 16% more than import-competing jobs, on average). Trump is playing on workers fears and feeding into the notion that specialization and free, voluntary exchange - which we all do on a daily basis to our individual and, thus, collective betterment - is somehow contrary to our best interests.
I don't know anything about Trump's plans but many of our trade deficit partners have already imposed barriers on importation and subsidies on exports, which is good for the consumer as long as they have money to spend but bad for generating new income. That's the problem with the TPP. It's often not about free trade between partner nations, it's often about deregulating end arounds for free trade between non partnered nations.
Cheap goods from $.50 an hour labor are great and in the short term they are taking advantage of foreign labor but they are also incentivizing the divide between the haves and the have nots in the US. But even then, that's not the problem. $.50 labor that is further subsidized, often through the cost of transport to ensure it remains cheaper and with no stability to industry, is not so good.
Not all protectionism is nonsense. It largely depends on the game your partner is playing.
So the questions here becomes how much domestic industry do you sacrifice in the pursuit of cheap goods and/or higher corporate revenues and how long can you sustain a country attempting to find new industry to replace that which you outsource and how much do you want to rely on foreign powers to provide you with the goods you need?
Also, the price of tires went up and then came back down. I don't know if those tariffs were lifted but tire prices settled back down to where they were after all of the hubub.
I am looking for subsidies on tires but my googlefu is weak. The important subsidies are actually on transportation, not on the tires themselves.
Tariffs on passenger and light truck tires made in China are here to stay.
The U.S. International Trade Commission voted at 11 a.m. on July 14, 2015, and affirmed both the anti-dumping and countervailing duty investigations. This means the tariffs now are final, and will remain in place for at least five years. The cases will be reviewed in 2020.
The tariff rates, as set by the Department of Commerce (DOC) on June 12, 2015, stand. The ITC does not have the power to adjust the rates. Its role simply is to determine whether the production of these tires in China harms the U.S. market. To review those rates, read this: DOC affirms tariffs, increases rates for nearly all tire makers
Looking outside the low-cost radial and entry level tire markets—the majority of which are imported—new plants and expansion projects are popping up in various parts of the U.S., with South Carolina getting a large piece of the investment pie.
For the year ended August 2012, tire makers earmarked $2.75 billion for expansion projects in North America, and in the following 12 months announced planned expenditures of $1.8 billion.
...
Many tire makers believe it's important to have production near the region where the tires will be sold, thus saving heavily on logistics, shipping costs and inventory needs.
“Yokohama's strategy is to employ local production for local consumption as much as possible,” said Alan Easome, senior director, new plant development, for Yokohama Tire Manufacturing Mississippi. “With growing demand in the U.S. for our products, it only makes sense for us to look toward production in the U.S.”
...
James Hawk, president and general manager of Toyo's manufacturing site in Georgia, remembers not too many years ago when there was a mass exodus of firms looking to locate in low-labor sites such as China, Indonesia or the Czech Republic.
“What they were chasing was labor costs,” Hawk said. “They were trying to mitigate or eliminate the legacy part of the labor costs.”
While labor and other costs may have been cheaper overseas, it forced those tire firms to carry more inventory, deal with currency fluctuations and ship products halfway around the world, he said, noting logistics costs aren't getting any cheaper.
While labor and other costs may have been cheaper overseas, it forced those tire firms to carry more inventory, deal with currency fluctuations and ship products halfway around the world, he said, noting logistics costs aren't getting any cheaper.
That's the thing I'd love to see numbers on. The US cannot and should not compete for labor prices. Sustenance wages are not something to emulate. But if logistics subsidies should not be something we accept without actively engaging the process to make sure our best interests are at heart. If cheap it's cheap goods and we don't care about what happens when production stops, meh, whatever. Otherwise, you bring it to the table and weigh the pros and cons.
I'm not sure that LM will agree with it given his predilection against free trade agreements, but it offers data and he doesn't.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
I'm not sure that LM will agree with it given his predilection against free trade agreements, but it offers data and he doesn't.
I'm mostly fine with NAFTA. So much so that I generally support it. There's enough good that outweighs the bad, with one huge exception that I'm aware of. NAFTA defines waste and toxic waste as commodities and allows the countries to enter into free trade of these "goods" with very little regulation.
Free Trade isn't the problem. It's the games that go into the TPP that are the problem.
I would recommend reading First Contract. It's a sci-fi take on how a backwater economy moves up the economic food chain. Instead of Japan in the 50's, China in the 70's, Taiwan in the 80's, it's Earth after the aliens arrive.
And if that's not enough to give it a look, it's by Greg Costikyan, RPG designer extraordinaire.
It is entertaining to have virtually everything that the National Review is writing now, hell bent on savaging Trump.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Isgrimnur wrote:I would recommend reading First Contract. It's a sci-fi take on how a backwater economy moves up the economic food chain. Instead of Japan in the 50's, China in the 70's, Taiwan in the 80's, it's Earth after the aliens arrive.
And if that's not enough to give it a look, it's by Greg Costikyan, RPG designer extraordinaire.
Not just RPG designer but Paranoia! creator. That's a huge resume mark in my book. So much so, I'm tempted to order the book and let it sit on my shelf, begging to be read, next to 100s of other novels I haven't read yet.
Enjoy Costikyan, so I'm reading too! There ate also a short series of tories in the Paranoia universe he edited.
"A lie can run round the world before the truth has got its boots on." -Terry Pratchett, The Truth "The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it." -Terry Pratchett, Monstrous Regiment
Rip wrote:
She on the other hand hasn't really been attacked on many issues.
Clinton's lucky no one has ever attacked her. Some politicians live a charmed life.
Indeed.
The media rarely gets a chance to speak to Hillary Clinton, so when they’re so fortunate, the average American would think journalists would take full advantage of the opportunity.
Many Americans want to get to the bottom of the “homebrew server” email scandal and FBI investigation. Others want to know Hillary’s role in abandoning four Americans in Benghazi, Libya.
When Clinton graced Boise, Idaho’s Mix 106 with her presence this morning, instead of trying to get serious answers, the hosts had a different agenda.
Their softball questions included:
“If you get a laid back night at home, what is it for you: pizza or burgers?”
“For your birthday, do you like a gift card or something a little more personalized?”
“When you’re watching Charlotte and you get to be grandma for a while, do you follow the rules of mom and dad or do you like to take some of those grandparent liberties?”
The Mix 106 hosts weren’t done. Instead of pressing the Democratic front runner — who has had only one press conference in over 100 days — about anything of substance, she instead was probed over something *everyone* cares about.
“What’s your favorite romantic comedy?” the host asked her.
Clinton responded, “Oh my gosh! You know, there’s so many that I love. I love the ‘Princess Bride’. You know, I’ve seen it like 25 times or something over the course of my life.”
I was really surprised when Highlights Magazine had an interview with Obama years ago and they asked such questions as "What's your favorite animal?" and "What do you do for fun?". I mean, I was hoping for the reporter dressed as Dora the Explorer to hammer him on NSA surveillance, his outspoken stance on gun control and the rumors that he might not be white.
Rip wrote:
Education has gone a long way. They have been educated by the people who made promises and didn't deliver. That kind of education doesn't fade.
LordMortis wrote:It's the games that go into the TPP that are the problem.
I can't speak specifically to that beyond the fact that those that I am familiar with that are knowledgeable about Trade, aren't opposed to the TPP.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Isgrimnur wrote:I would recommend reading First Contract. It's a sci-fi take on how a backwater economy moves up the economic food chain. Instead of Japan in the 50's, China in the 70's, Taiwan in the 80's, it's Earth after the aliens arrive.
And if that's not enough to give it a look, it's by Greg Costikyan, RPG designer extraordinaire.
Not just RPG designer but Paranoia! creator. That's a huge resume mark in my book. So much so, I'm tempted to order the book and let it sit on my shelf, begging to be read, next to 100s of other novels I haven't read yet.
I'm in the same boat (don't forget the unplayed games inventory . . .) and I went ahead and ordered it anyway - THE FORUM EFFECT
Isgrimnur wrote:Whether a country benefits from it or not depends highly on your viewpoint.
Agreed. If you are in the US and heavily invested in multinationals or rely ultra cheap goods but have a job that is not based on a supply chain to finished products then the TPP benefits you, at least for now.
