How is your career going?

[LordMortis]

Good luck Odin!

A think a lot of white collar workers have dreams (even if they are vague and impractical for some. I'm not talking about you!) of working with our hands. Doing something productive and constructive with real world impact.

Pushing papers around all day can suck the life out of you, even if it pays well, sometimes.

I used to but then my body wore down from all of the stress of white collar work, as opposed to the tolls of physical labor, and a total lack of exercise from being drained I fear I won't be able to handle physical labor anymore. I get winded and have to rest after six or seven trips up and down the stairs and the idea of standing for an 8 hours shift? Unpossible.

The time for me to abandon white collar work was 2005 while I was still physically healthy.

Still, Odin has my envy, but he had my envy when he quit to become a writer as well.

[Odin]

Pushing papers around all day can suck the life out of you, even if it pays well, sometimes.

You know, that sums up my situation remarkably well. Even if I could have the same job I had at the last company where I was an IT leader, but without the horrible (in retrospect) boss, I still don't know if I'd be happy.

My situation is helped tremendously by having a wife with a decent-paying job that she's good at, generally likes, and for which she is well-regarded by her co-workers and boss. We live within our means for the most part, and while I can certainly dream, we don't need a lot to get by. I need a job where I can close the gap between her salary and our total financial needs (including savings, retirement, travel, and such luxuries as we decide to splurge on, like pizza every week or two). It was nice when I was making 6-figures, but if the stress kills me that's not really a win.

Also, she's very artistic and creative, so there's a potential that I could do some artsy stuff in my free time (she'd design, I'd weld). That could be fun. We'll see - I have to get into and through the program first, and I don't know at this point for sure that I'll like or be any good at welding.

[GreenGoo]

I'll just point out (and this isn' limited to face to face, I just think it's important) that there is a balance between questions that are too stupid, and those that are beyond the scope of the course. In the middle, it's a great place to be when one student asks for clarification on a certain point, everyone benefits from the response given by the prof. I think it's a more comfortable learning environment when your neighbour 2 desks over asks and question, you interject with additional detail to the question and the prof stops and gives a more detailed explanation that many people were shaky on.

That said, there's no reason it can't be the same online, I just like the learning environment online less. Like I said, I like a certain formalness to my education, even when it was a bunch of dudes who hadn't showered in 3 days, hung over and sitting around in sweatpants.

It's probably just a cultural thing based on my age and my own experiences.

[GreenGoo]

He's apparently very good at it and if he just skipped college and went into welding right out of high school, who the hell knows where he'd be now.

I'm guessing he'd be welding stuff.

[Jeff V]

He's apparently very good at it and if he just skipped college and went into welding right out of high school, who the hell knows where he'd be now.

I'm guessing he'd be welding stuff.

I bet he'd have gotten sick of it by now and took up competitive crocheting.

[GreenGoo]

I bet he'd have gotten sick of it by now and took up competitive crocheting.

Probably. When I'm tired and bored and grumpy and look at what I might like to do, I realize that I love the idea of my job, and really like the job itself.

It's bizarre when suffering from ennui to realize that you'd just end up right back where you started if you tried to make changes to your life. And a little depressing, for whatever reason.

My life is actually better than I hoped it would be when I was a little kid. Which is weird. I dream small, that's for sure.

[MindToyGames]

Selling games on Steam all day can suck the life out of you, even if it pays well, sometimes.

Fixed that for my case.

Yeah, I echo some of the sentiments here. I'm reasonably ok at making my niche of PC game, and now that I have a rep on Steam, I can get IDs without Greenlight and throw out as many games as I want. The thing is, the zeal I had for making and selling them has slowly faded, and I think it's a permanent condition. Selling games on there is a real, nasty rat race, and selling games on other platforms these days just isn't very profitable. And I can't do what Arcen Games does, investing $30-$50K on a game and hoping it hits. We've seen how that turns out, anyway, given recent events there. Today's environment would make that financial suicide, more than likely.

I have one more game to finish that I committed to (this one: http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/sh ... p?t=532426) and then it's probably on to another sphere of the industry or something else entirely. Producing? Hey, i've been around almost two decades and managed dozens of employees over that span, that has to be useful to some start-up game company?

Like Odin, I have a wife with a good paying job, which makes this slightly easier to deal with, I suppose. No welding in my future, though.

[LordMortis]

I'm prepared to throw $4.99 at Steam for you today. I'm sure a quarter from that will end up in your pocket before taxes.

[MindToyGames]

I'm prepared to throw $4.99 at Steam for you today. I'm sure a quarter from that will end up in your pocket before taxes.

Thanks, LordMortis! Always appreciated. Feel free to friend me on Steam if you have any questions.

(Actually, as an aside, Steam takes 30%, and that's all I really have to consider. Mortgage interest + home office deduction + married jointly standard deduction = almost no taxes out of pocket on my end. One thing I would miss if I did move on.)

[GreenGoo]

Dude, is that common knowledge? I've always been under the impression that Steam's take was under wraps and part of a strict NDA as part of doing business with them.

That's based on....nothing, I guess. I just thought it was true. Other companies have been extremely tight lipped about their business relationship with Steam and Steam itself has never released any information about how it does business, to my knowledge.

[MindToyGames]

Dude, is that common knowledge? I've always been under the impression that Steam's take was under wraps and part of a strict NDA as part of doing business with them.

That's based on....nothing, I guess. I just thought it was true. Other companies have been extremely tight lipped about their business relationship with Steam and Steam itself has never released any information about how it does business, to my knowledge.

It is pretty common stuff. If you Google "Steam's cut of sales", you'll see many articles about it. The only thing they tend to get weird about now is talking about upcoming special sale events and all of that, which I don't just to be on the safe side.

[Smoove_B]

Half Life 3 confirmed.

[GreenGoo]

Dude, is that common knowledge? I've always been under the impression that Steam's take was under wraps and part of a strict NDA as part of doing business with them.

That's based on....nothing, I guess. I just thought it was true. Other companies have been extremely tight lipped about their business relationship with Steam and Steam itself has never released any information about how it does business, to my knowledge.

It is pretty common stuff. If you Google "Steam's cut of sales", you'll see many articles about it. The only thing they tend to get weird about now is talking about upcoming special sale events and all of that, which I don't just to be on the safe side.

Thanks. I haven't looked into it for quite a long while, and never intensively.

[The Meal]

it looks like my own free will is about to be taken out of the equation. (Official news to arrive possibly as soon as next month, but it's been promised that we'll hear no later than the conclusion of the first round of the NHL playoffs.)

The word has arrived. The above story was told by an idiot, full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing.

[Isgrimnur]

Congratulations

[stessier]

It was announced last week that we'll have forced plant shut down for a week in May and a week in July. More are possible, although not planned at this time. Taking it as time without pay is an option, but since I can't really afford 2 unpaid weeks, I'll be using vacation time. I have 3 weeks I can use and I really hope the shutdowns don't exceed that this year. I can't even imagine what next year might bring if things don't turn around.

[hitbyambulance]

It was announced last week that we'll have forced plant shut down for a week in May and a week in July. More are possible, although not planned at this time. Taking it as time without pay is an option, but since I can't really afford 2 unpaid weeks, I'll be using vacation time. I have 3 weeks I can use and I really hope the shutdowns don't exceed that this year. I can't even imagine what next year might bring if things don't turn around.

i would absolutely love it if my job did this. well, i suppose it mightn't bode well for the future of the company, but i have enough stashed away for essential payments, obligations and (reduced) living expenses that this would be an awesome thing every now and again.

[Isgrimnur]

2.54% raise attached to the new everyone-at-once review process. Seeing as I was told that my old boss would fight for me to get 2% in the previous annual review, now seven months overdue, I'm effectively losing several hundred dollars in pay because no one from execs to HR wanted to force the issue and make my previous boss actually do the personnel management portion of his job.

On the bright side, the new boss told me that the initial feedback was that no one was going to get more than 2%, and argued me up to the new number because I was getting screwed over.

On the bright side, feedback is good regarding my efforts, no complaints from my chain or the org as a whole, and the path to Assistant Vice President in the medium future seems wide open, facilitated by the growth of my current minion and the likely acquisition of a second by year's end.

[Paingod]

This might need a different thread - but is sort of career oriented...

Do recruiters get annoyed if you resubmit resumes for different positions they've posted? A month ago, a job posting popped up that looked right for me, so I put together my cover letter and resume and sent it off. Last week I checked in with the recruiter and she advised they were still reviewing resumes for that job. Today a new, different job pops up that's more in line with my skill set with the same employer... is it bad etiquette to send off a brand new resume & cover letter to the exact same place for that position, or should I talk to the recruiter and simply let her know I'm interested in that position as well?

A different question, too - in looking at jobs, I've seen a few State jobs pop up. It looks like they're required to post the salary range (something the vast majority of employers hide) ... is that range what would be considered "normal" for the position, or do State agencies generally overpay/underpay people?

On the bright side, feedback is good regarding my efforts, no complaints from my chain or the org as a whole, and the path to Assistant Vice President in the medium future seems wide open, facilitated by the growth of my current minion and the likely acquisition of a second by year's end.

Don't forget to care for your minion daily - but remember no food after midnight, direct sunlight, or water splashed on it. I just hope that when you get the second one, it doesn't look like this:

Spoiler:

[coopasonic]

A different question, too - in looking at jobs, I've seen a few State jobs pop up. It looks like they're required to post the salary range (something the vast majority of employers hide) ... is that range what would be considered "normal" for the position, or do State agencies generally overpay/underpay people?

Historically the public sector has paid less balanced with better benefits and job security. I am not sure the balancing part is what it used to be with most states running into pension related deficits, but (excluding my time in the Army Reserves which isn't really the same anyway) I don't have any direct experience to speak of.

[Jeff V]

Do recruiters get annoyed if you resubmit resumes for different positions they've posted? A month ago, a job posting popped up that looked right for me, so I put together my cover letter and resume and sent it off. Last week I checked in with the recruiter and she advised they were still reviewing resumes for that job. Today a new, different job pops up that's more in line with my skill set with the same employer... is it bad etiquette to send off a brand new resume & cover letter to the exact same place for that position, or should I talk to the recruiter and simply let her know I'm interested in that position as well?

Recruiters get paid for finding ideal candidates for a job. A phone call or email might be just as helpful as a complete resubmission (which she might ask anyway so you can tweak it more to that job).

[Smoove_B]

A different question, too - in looking at jobs, I've seen a few State jobs pop up. It looks like they're required to post the salary range (something the vast majority of employers hide) ... is that range what would be considered "normal" for the position, or do State agencies generally overpay/underpay people?

The range is the range and effectively removes most negotiation from the table. The top end of the range is usually what the most senior person is making at that position and every year that number is adjusted based on whatever salary increase they command. Sometimes the salary raise is mandated as an across-the-boards figure, other times it's tied to rules or regulations for a titled position. The take home message is that if the range is A-D and you show up and ask for D+$1, it's not going to happen. The low end of the range is going to be what new hires are going to get and then the rest of the group with that same title will fall in between. If you're the only person applying for the job with that title, there will be room to move around a bit (but never above the max). If you're working on a team of people with the same title...that low end range is going to be the point you start and paying you more money than people that have worked there for years will be unlikely (the people floating in the middle of the range).

[Jeff V]

2.54% raise attached to the new everyone-at-once review process. Seeing as I was told that my old boss would fight for me to get 2% in the previous annual review, now seven months overdue, I'm effectively losing several hundred dollars in pay because no one from execs to HR wanted to force the issue and make my previous boss actually do the personnel management portion of his job.

Congrats! I actually got an unexpected surprise this year, in part because of a stellar performance review, I'm getting an extra 2%, so 3% after years of the "everybody gets 1%" demotivational performance review process. This will almost cover the added diaper expense!

[GreenGoo]

It was announced last week that we'll have forced plant shut down for a week in May and a week in July. More are possible, although not planned at this time. Taking it as time without pay is an option, but since I can't really afford 2 unpaid weeks, I'll be using vacation time. I have 3 weeks I can use and I really hope the shutdowns don't exceed that this year. I can't even imagine what next year might bring if things don't turn around.

i would absolutely love it if my job did this. well, i suppose it mightn't bode well for the future of the company, but i have enough stashed away for essential payments, obligations and (reduced) living expenses that this would be an awesome thing every now and again.

Ditto. And the nature of my work often allows for these gaps. While there is always something to do, there isn't always something that NEEDS doing. Socially acceptable time off even without pay would be something I would welcome.

[GreenGoo]

A different question, too - in looking at jobs, I've seen a few State jobs pop up. It looks like they're required to post the salary range (something the vast majority of employers hide) ... is that range what would be considered "normal" for the position, or do State agencies generally overpay/underpay people?

Historically the public sector has paid less balanced with better benefits and job security. I am not sure the balancing part is what it used to be with most states running into pension related deficits, but (excluding my time in the Army Reserves which isn't really the same anyway) I don't have any direct experience to speak of.

I sit beside contractors doing the same job at double the per diem I get. They get no benefits, I get a crap ton of benefits. People have done the math (not me, I don't actually care, although knowing is valuable) and it works out pretty close. If money is your thing, contracting is the place to be. If security, paid time off and a pension is something you value more than cash, then government employment is very solid.

Things change though, always, so just because something is true today, doesn't mean it will continue to be true. Right now our government is trying to cut contracting costs, and that means trying to get high skill for low pay. You can imagine how that's working out, but in the short term, some contractors are struggling.

Governments also purge employees occasionally. I've managed to survive 2 of these, but neither was government-wide major initiative, although still scary. During these times, it's a great time to be a contractor. This cycle has existed since forever.

[Octavious]

I got "invited" to have drinks with the owner of the company tonight. FML. I need to start doing shitty work so I'm ignored.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[Smoove_B]

Roofie yourself and pass out in the bathroom. You'll be able to retire quite comfortably.

[Octavious]

Tempting at this point. It sure would make for an epic company story for the ages that's for sure.

[LordMortis]

Roofie yourself and pass out in the bathroom. You'll be able to retire quite comfortably.

Does that work?

[Smoove_B]

Maybe? An employer invites you to drinks...how can you say no? That's your superior..maybe you fear you'll be passed over. Next thing you know you're in the bathroom and don't remember what you did the last 2 hours.

On topic: apparently I get to learn a new learning management system because Pearson is living the biz. Ok, terrific.

[LordMortis]

Maybe? An employer invites you to drinks...how can you say no? That's your superior..maybe you fear you'll be passed over. Next thing you know you're in the bathroom and don't remember what you did the last 2 hours.

On topic: apparently I get to learn a new learning management system because Pearson is living the biz. Ok, terrific.

So you have to be invited to drinks by your employer before you rufie yourself and head to bathroom? Shit. Now you speak up!

[Jeff V]

My boss has it in mind that if he's there, it by definition is a company outing, and there is zero tolerance regarding alcohol at company outings. One of my employees lives near him and carefully avoids the bars my boss tends to frequent. I don't know anyone who's had a drink with him (or had a drink in his presence).

I do go out with colleagues from other departments who have no such views as to what is and is not a company outing. Every year, a bunch of us spend a fall Friday afternoon raking leaves for old folks. That would be a company outing -- the company outing ends the moment we walk through the door at Rock Bottom Brewery.

[gbasden]

If you're working on a team of people with the same title...that low end range is going to be the point you start and paying you more money than people that have worked there for years will be unlikely (the people floating in the middle of the range).

That's not been my experience, at least working with CA state employees. I've seen them recruit people in at the middle or high side of a salary range. It really depends on how badly they need those skills and what experience the person comes in with.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, I guess I should offer that my public sector experience is at a county level or lower - mostly local. Salary ranges have always covered a single position, though once it was in a place where I was working with someone that had the same title. She had an extra year of work experience but I had more certifications and licenses. So what did my future boss do? Told me she could give me more money than the minimum range...because she tossed my future co-worker an additional $3 or 4 grand when I was hired. So my old co-worker was given a raise simply because I was hired. No idea how I lasted there three years.

But I can say I've never seen (or know of) a situation where someone is hired from the outside to be part of a department, given the same title as others in the department, and they're making more money than people that have been there. You may be able to get middle salary range based on your own experience, but not if that's going to put you ahead of a future co-worker that's been working there.

[Jeff V]

A friend of mine is a code monkey/DBA for the State of Arizona. He has access to salary information, including his coworkers, and is constantly pissed off because new hires (some with no experience) are making more than he does after 15 years there.

[Isgrimnur]

A friend of mine is a code monkey/DBA for the State of Arizona. He has access to salary information, including his coworkers, and is constantly pissed off because new hires (some with no experience) are making more than he does after 15 years there.

Unless he's prepared to threaten to leave AND actually follow through, his tears are delicious to management.

[Jeff V]

A friend of mine is a code monkey/DBA for the State of Arizona. He has access to salary information, including his coworkers, and is constantly pissed off because new hires (some with no experience) are making more than he does after 15 years there.

Unless he's prepared to threaten to leave AND actually follow through, his tears are delicious to management.

That's his problem, he's one of the most change-adverse people I've ever met. Plus, I think he was jobless for several years before Arizona hired him and he moved there after living his entire life in SW suburban Chicago.

I just tell him to stop looking at their salaries. Knowing that sort of information doesn't do anyone a damn bit of good.

[Paingod]

Yesterday the CFO called me into his office and laid me off. I made a counter offer and they've gone back to rethink their decision. I'm not sure what will come of it, but it's given me a stay of execution for a few extra days at least.

The counter offer was simple:
Me: I've been expecting this for a while. If you lay me off, who will support the remaining 5 sites, 10 servers, and 53 users?
CFO: (Uncertain shrug, doesn't seem too concerned)
Me: You'll need to step up vendor reliance, and I've done the math. If they come in for just 10 hours a week, you're spending just as much on them as you are on me right now.
CFO: Well, I don't want to trade dollars for dollars! But we need to cut back.
Me: I understand that. How about a 20% salary reduction on my end?
CFO: (ponders) What if you moved to part time?

... so we discussed it, and he's going to talk with me again next week. If they push for part time, there's no way I continue to provide 24x7 on-call support and weekend time unless it's at a premium.

When I told my office mate (the Facilities Manager) about the conversation, he looked at me like I was playing Jedi Mind Tricks. I think I'm the first person so far to get them to back down from immediate (well, 2 weeks) termination.

In the interim, I've stepped up my job search from "Looking for an equal opportunity with a reasonable commute" to "Looking for a good opportunity with a bad commute" and if things go completely south I'll be in "Looking for any opportunity with a horrific commute" land.

[Jeff V]

Good luck. Here, anyway, IT is doing pretty well. I'd definitely be cautious of accepting that reduced of a salary for long enough to define your price for prospective employers. Were you offered any sort of severance package? Keep in mind if the company is that unstable, they might kick you to the curb in a few weeks but do so at your greatly reduced salary (which would also affect things such as accrued vacation payouts). The guy is a bean counter, don't think he's not considering this.

[Jeff V]

We are two weeks away from what our company is calling "soft spin," a period where everyone starts assuming their new roles and companies begin operating autonomously yet with the safety net While none of my locations are spinning off, I do have three "separation" sites were employees from 2 or all 3 companies need to be separated into the other spincos. This week, two of the highest profile locations, the corporate HQ downtown Chicago and the IT HQ in suburban Chicago did the active directory migrations -- I managed both. It attracted a lot of attention -- two other managers (who are gaining employees that are going to the separation companies), the director, and the senior director of my department all came to witness the carnage my magnificent performance. It did go well, but there was a lot of controlled chaos. I received platitudes in email form all the way up the ladder.

Starting on July 1, my area of responsibility will increase from 8 locations in the Chicago area to 34 locations including downstate Illinois, Indiana and Michigan. Sometime next month my boss and I are going to take a road trip to visit these sites. Some will be very small and require little day to day administration, others will pile on to my bureaucratic paperwork burden. I don't expect I'll see any additional compensation, not anytime soon. I might try to bargain for a few WFH days per month just to focus on these reports without interruption. More than ever, there will be no particular reason my butt needs to be in the office most days; the only reason to be there is if I need to augment the techs, and my boss doesn't want me doing that anyway. There is even less reason for him to be in the office, and while he does WFH several days per month, he still drags his butt into the office most days and therefore expects me to do the same.