The Art of the Donald Trumpocalypse

[YellowKing]

I'm going to be disappointed if it's anyone but Omarosa.

[hepcat]

All joking aside, I've read that he's been watching Tyrion Lannister very closely after getting seasons 1 and 2 of Game of Thrones on blu ray. He feels he's clever, but ruthless. Two traits he can't spell, but he admires.

[Rip]

I don't doubt for a second that Trump will get record GOP voters against Clinton. I also think he will get a fair amount of independent anti Clinton votes. That will not be enough to win him an election. The question will be how many independents simply won't vote for Clinton, even with Trump as the alternative. I have no idea what the critical mass is for that but election would be hers to lose. It will be interesting and the no matter how things turn out it will have the biggest implications for partisan politics in my lifetime.

Rip, you believe America, at it's heart, is like Trump, and want to live in an a WASP anachronism. If America were truly that way, Obama would never have been re-elected. Pushing for America to become more Trump by galvanizing religious "freedom", deregulation, and corporate tax breaks at the expense of infrastructure strengthens your core but also shrinks it. If Trump wins, it won't be for mass love of Trump's vision, it will be because the democrats want the best option for the democrats.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... trump_race

Nearly one-in-four voters say they will stay home or vote third party if Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are the major party presidential candidates.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey of Likely U.S. Voters finds Trump and Clinton tied at 38% each. But 16% say they would vote for some other candidate if the presidential election comes down to those two, while six percent (6%) would stay home. Only two percent (2%) are undecided given those options.

[hepcat]

Too early for those polls to matter.

[Fitzy]

or worse, dismissed as stupid.

Ummm...based on the internet comments that felt his speech was spell-binding....isn't that actual evidence that they are, in fact, stupid?

I mean, the problem with working class Americans is that they literally don't know anything about foreign policy. Like, completely nothing. Most Americans don't know *anything* about foreign policy.

Why on earth would anyone sample (or rather, value) their opinion on someone else (who knows nothing about foreign policy) who said something about foreign policy?

It would be like polling me on how I felt about a speech on quantum mechanics. My opinion is "I don't know enough about quantum mechanics to answer your question, why do you care what I think?"

His supporters *are* stupid. That's the problem with them. We let stupid people vote, and this is the dumb shit they do.

The reason you should value their opinion is because they vote. I'm not saying you have to agree. I'm not saying they are right, though right and wrong is difficult to say in politics. I'm saying that by calling them stupid and not listening, the 2 parties have locked a large group of people out of the political system. Is it really that surprising they turn to someone who claims to know them and support them?

It also doesn't matter that Americans of, let's be honest, any class, literally don't know anything about foreign policy. It's the job of our leaders to effectively communicate to the public. Instead we get mocking and criticism of how stupid the masses are. Your quantum mechanics example is not comparable. We generally don't vote on science. We do on foreign policy. You may not like that the "stupid" people get to vote, but that is something that will not change. Calling them stupid and mocking their opinion does nothing. Saying they are too stupid to discuss issues with just drives more people into the waiting arms of con men like Donald Trump. Then we sit here and scratch our heads wondering why people could possibly vote for him. Oh right, it's because they are stupid!

I honestly believe Trump is a potential horror as president. I can't imagine this turning out good. However, I am willing to see why people vote for him. They are afraid. They believe that the trade deals and immigration deals are being done to enrich certain groups at their expense. Students are coming out of school with massive debt and no job prospects. Social conservatives are seeing their ideal America move further away. And there you have reasons why people would vote for Trump, Sanders, and Cruz.

So we can go on calling people stupid. Or maybe we should stop and listen for just one moment so we can understand what's really going on. But that's hard. Saying you're stupid. That's easy.

[Smoove_B]

So we can go on calling people stupid. Or maybe we should stop and listen for just one moment so we can understand what's really going on. But that's hard. Saying you're stupid. That's easy.

I haven't heard anyone put it better than Patton Oswalt:

“You’ve gotta respect everyone’s beliefs." No, you don’t. That’s what gets us in trouble. Look, you have to acknowledge everyone’s beliefs, and then you have to reserve the right to go: "That is fucking stupid. Are you kidding me?" I acknowledge that you believe that, that’s great, but I’m not going to respect it.

[hepcat]

Instead we get mocking and criticism of how stupid the masses are.

The masses are actually split into two groups. One consists of the folks who have been branded as idiots for supporting style over substance (sorry, couldn't resist), the other are labeled elitists for trying to bring thoughtfulness to the process (i.e. inaction in the eyes of the former group).

p.s. I actually completely agree with you that we do need to stop, take stock of what's going on right now, and try to find a way to reach an understanding with those I'm railing against (if possible...the reason may turn out to be something we need to eliminate, not compromise with...racism, for example). However, I also reserve the right (as quoted above by Smoove) to be human and shout my frustration from the rooftops every now and again.

[RunningMn9]

The reason you should value their opinion is because they vote.

I don't have to value their opinion because they vote. I think their opinion is worthless and they vote. I get it. In an ideal world, it would be great if they took steps to make their opinions !worthless but I'm not holding my breath. Not all opinions are created equal. I don't have to value or respect stupidity, just because someone has the ability to act on that stupidity. I can call it what it is, and then deal with the fact that they have the ability to act on it.

though right and wrong is difficult to say in politics.

Sometimes it is. Nuanced but conflicting opinions on the efficacy and intricacies of Iran Nuclear deals or multinational trade agreements? Yes - that can be difficult to say what is right and wrong.

These dunces aren't showing up to the table with nuanced by conflicting opinions on anything. They are showing up with all the complication and nuance of a bumper sticker.

Is it really that surprising they turn to someone who claims to know them and support them?

No, not at all. But the reaction to their additional act of stupidity isn't to indulge or validate it simply because they've done it.

Your quantum mechanics example is not comparable.

Says you. Asking someone their opinion on a topic they know absolutely nothing about is silly. Whether that topic is nuclear deals with Iran or quantum mechanics. If you don't know what you are talking about, you don't know what you are talking about. And if you don't know what you are talking about - but are angrily taking action about it - I feel free to tell them to go F themselves for their stupidity.

Calling them stupid and mocking their opinion does nothing.

I'm just telling it like it is. You'd think these dunces would appreciate that.

Saying they are too stupid to discuss issues with just drives more people into the waiting arms of con men like Donald Drumpf.

Maybe it does. But that doesn't change the reality that most people *ARE* too stupid to discuss the issue with. And THAT is the real problem here. Not me talking about it.

Saying you're stupid. That's easy.

And accurate.

[LordMortis]

Can I just say that Patton Oswalt needs to stop doing voice over work for cartoons. He annoys me in everything he touches. He's a male Kristen Schaal. Only when Kristen Schaal started doing voice over work she gave us Louise Belcher and all is forgiven. Oswalt went from annoying guy on Comedy Central to occasionally ruining TV shows as a Love Boat like guest start of the week to becoming ubiquitous in cartoons and he makes my annoyed even while watching my favorite cartoons. The least they could have done was killed him Archer.

[hepcat]

If I EVER hear you say anything remotely disparaging of the great Patton Oswalt ever again, I will leap into action and administer a vigorous and painful verbal tongue lashing!

[LordMortis]

If I EVER hear you say anything remotely disparaging of the great Patton Oswalt ever again, I will leap into action and administer a vigorous and painful verbal tongue lashing!

I knew you would jump up to defend him. You probably just sit around waiting for the next Comedy Central Roast announcement. I bet you loved him as food critic in Bob's or as the lawyer in Archer You probably even watch We Bare Bears just to see Nom Nom.

<ptew>

[hepcat]

That's it...where's my damn car keys. You better start making peace with your gods, chum.

[Rip]

So we can go on calling people stupid. Or maybe we should stop and listen for just one moment so we can understand what's really going on. But that's hard. Saying you're stupid. That's easy.

I haven't heard anyone put it better than Patton Oswalt:

“You’ve gotta respect everyone’s beliefs." No, you don’t. That’s what gets us in trouble. Look, you have to acknowledge everyone’s beliefs, and then you have to reserve the right to go: "That is fucking stupid. Are you kidding me?" I acknowledge that you believe that, that’s great, but I’m not going to respect it.

[Rip]

Putin recently called Trump "a brighter person, talented without a doubt." Trump returned the compliment saying: "I like him because he called me a genius. He said Trump is the real leader."
And in his address in Washington Wednesday, the billionaire businessman expressed hope about the potential for improvement in American-Russian relations.

"I believe an easing of tensions and improved relations with Russia, from a position of strength only, is possible," Trump said, though he added that the United States should be willing to walk away from the negotiating table if Russia is too demanding.

The message is one that is warmly received on the streets of Moscow.

"The key thing about him is his willingness for a breakthrough in relations with Russia, maybe they won't get closer but at least there will be a dialogue," said one man said feet away from the Kremlin.
Another added, "First of all, Trump is a positive guy and he spoke about Putin in a good way. He wants positive changes in America."

Many believe that Trump and Putin would get along well on a personal level and that alone could help ease tensions between the U.S. and Russia, which have been building up over the past years.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/28/politics/ ... index.html

[hepcat]

I really don't want a president who'll swoon whenever another leader pays him a compliment. So much for making America great again. All you need to get ahead in negotiations with this tool are some kind words and he'll bend over backwards to please you. Putin is probably already planning on what color drapes he'll install in the Oval Office after he plows Trump to the ground.

Chinese leaders are trying to pass a note to Trump right now that reads, "We like you! You're handsome! Do you like us? Please check Yes or No below!"

[Pyperkub]

I really don't want a president who'll swoon whenever another leader pays him a compliment. So much for making America great again. All you need to get ahead in negotiations with this tool are some kind words and he'll bend over backwards to please you. Putin is probably already planning on what color drapes he'll install in the Oval Office after he plows Trump to the ground.

Chinese leaders are trying to pass a note to Trump right now that reads, "We like you! Do you like us? Please check Yes or No below!"

Give Trump some credit. While I don't think his business record is sterling, he would have lost everything by now if he were that gullible.

[hepcat]

So we can go on calling people stupid. Or maybe we should stop and listen for just one moment so we can understand what's really going on. But that's hard. Saying you're stupid. That's easy.

I haven't heard anyone put it better than Patton Oswalt:

“You’ve gotta respect everyone’s beliefs." No, you don’t. That’s what gets us in trouble. Look, you have to acknowledge everyone’s beliefs, and then you have to reserve the right to go: "That is fucking stupid. Are you kidding me?" I acknowledge that you believe that, that’s great, but I’m not going to respect it.

[hepcat]

I really don't want a president who'll swoon whenever another leader pays him a compliment. So much for making America great again. All you need to get ahead in negotiations with this tool are some kind words and he'll bend over backwards to please you. Putin is probably already planning on what color drapes he'll install in the Oval Office after he plows Trump to the ground.

Chinese leaders are trying to pass a note to Trump right now that reads, "We like you! Do you like us? Please check Yes or No below!"

Give Trump some credit. While I don't think his business record is sterling, he would have lost everything by now if he were that gullible.

He's not gullible, he's dangerously narcissistic.

Anyway, running a country != running a business. See his foreign policy speech for further evidence.

He doesn't have the bankruptcy parachute available to him in this arena, so I think everyone who believes he's truly a great businessman is in for a rude awakening.

[Pyperkub]

Oh, I don't think he's a great businessman at all, but he'd be a lot worse off if he could be played as easily as you claim.

PS please don't make me defend him I really don't want to.

[Zarathud]

Putin is trolling Trump.

[Kraken]

These dunces aren't showing up to the table with nuanced by conflicting opinions on anything. They are showing up with all the complication and nuance of a bumper sticker.

I saw one yesterday that said:

SAVE AMERICA
No Incumbents
No Democrats

...with a Trump sticker next to it.

Sometimes I wish the world looked that simple to me. It would save a lot of thinking.

[YellowKing]

I can't believe anyone would think that Putin's intentions are noble. The fact that he's siding with Trump should scare the living daylights out of you, not be cause for celebration.

[LawBeefaroni]

If I EVER hear you say anything remotely disparaging of the great Patton Oswalt ever again, I will leap into action and administer a vigorous and painful verbal tongue lashing!

Make it non-verbal and you've got something there...

[hepcat]

A non verbal dressing down is probably easier.

In other news, idiots give Trump supporters a smug feeling of righteousness.

Hey, you f'ing idiots, stop hurting your own cause. If Trump wins, it will partially be because of morons like you.

[RunningMn9]

A non verbal dressing down is probably easier.

In other news, idiots give Drumpf supporters a smug feeling of righteousness.

Hey, you f'ing idiots, stop hurting your own cause. If Drumpf wins, it will partially be because of morons like you.

They're just angry and lashing out, you have to respect that and accept it.

[hepcat]

You forgot the ninja!

Here

[Holman]

In a press release, Trump declared that he deplores street violence targeting neither minorities nor delegates.

[Fitzy]

The reason you should value their opinion is because they vote.

I don't have to value their opinion because they vote. I think their opinion is worthless and they vote. I get it. In an ideal world, it would be great if they took steps to make their opinions !worthless but I'm not holding my breath. Not all opinions are created equal. I don't have to value or respect stupidity, just because someone has the ability to act on that stupidity. I can call it what it is, and then deal with the fact that they have the ability to act on it.

I actually meant value as in they are a large group, some of whom are going to vote (though I said it in a stupid manner). The experts are a small group who are going to vote. Who wins?

Worse yet, we all probably live next to and interact with the people you want to call stupid and/or ignore. I doubt I have ever met or interacted with a foreign policy expert. even online. I certainly can't say the same about stupid people.

I don't care if you respect their opinions and ideas. I certainly have no respect for many of the opinions coming from Trump and his followers. But, if I was a politician, I'd stop ignoring them and listen. Even as a voter, this year's weird election and the past gains by the tea party are making me pause and try to understand what the fuck is going on. Not in order to vote their way, but to see what is at the heart of this mess.

[Jeff V]

You don't need to be a foreign policy expert or even know one to realize Trump will be received by our allies as the second coming of Adolf Hitler, and that is never a good thing. Nearly everyone knows some Islamic or Hispanic person that would be persecuted by his policies and those inflamed by his rhetoric.

[hepcat]

Except for Russia. They see him as the money truck that's going to back up to their door and let loose with the cash.

[RunningMn9]

Stuff

I don't disagree with what I think you are trying to say. These idiots exist and vote, and there's more than a few of them, so we have to pay attention to their stupidity and understand it.

I get that. What I don't get is when people hedge and imply that they are just being labeled as stupid, just because it's easy. They are being labeled as stupid because they believe stupid things. That they can then act on these stupid beliefs is what makes them dangerous.

Worse yet, we all probably live next to and interact with the people you want to call stupid and/or ignore.

Keep in mind that I'm one of them. That's the point I was making to YK earlier.

The difference between me and them isn't that I'm an expert and they aren't. The difference is that I know that I'm not an expert.

[Zarathud]

And you're not acting on your stupidity.

AKA I can see Russia from my front door!

[hepcat]

I have to give points for cleverness to Trump for his latest attempt to persuade Bernie to run as an independent, as well as kissing up to Bernie in his latest appearances. That's a sure fire way to water down Hillary's support come election time. Barring that, he hopes to get Bernie supporters into his camp. I'm hopeful that those who supported Bernie are smart enough to know that Trump stands for almost everything Bernie has railed against, and that this is purely an attempt to strengthen his position come general election time.

[Captain Caveman]

I gotta say, this kinda works: Black Trump

[tgb]

George Will, on whoever Trump's running mate might be:

His running mate will be unqualified for high office because he or she will think Trump is qualified.

[D.A.Lewis]

I have to give points for cleverness to Trump for his latest attempt to persuade Bernie to run as an independent, as well as kissing up to Bernie in his latest appearances. That's a sure fire way to water down Hillary's support come election time. Barring that, he hopes to get Bernie supporters into his camp. I'm hopeful that those who supported Bernie are smart enough to know that Trump stands for almost everything Bernie has railed against, and that this is purely an attempt to strengthen his position come general election time.

From what I've gathered, some of Bernie supporters might go to Trump. These particular supporters are tied to no party and simply want to shake up the system no matter what the cost. They would go for neither Hillary nor Cruz. OTOH, the vast majority of Bernie supporters are tied to his policies, and I suspect most of them would never Vote for Trump. It's important to note that in 2008, at one time, 40% of Hillary supporters said they would never vote for Obama.

[Pyperkub]

I think 80-90% of Bernie supporters will vote Clinton.

[Defiant]

There were a few polls going around before that had around 30% of Sanders supporters saying they won't vote for Clinton (about 7% saying they'll vote for Trump).

Those numbers are similar, or even somewhat smaller than the number of Clinton supporters saying they won't vote for Obama, but most did.

From recent exit polling, those numbers seem to have dropped somewhat. so yeah, I think about 85% will vote for Clinton (especially if Sanders means it that he'll be working to defeat Trump). I still think those 7% will vote for Trump, though. Of course, it's normal in recent elections to see around 10-15% of the people in a party to vote for the other candidate (and vice versa), so it tends to cancel out. I think the bigger question is does the NeverTrump movement have legs or not? I mean, we've seen stuff like that before, but not to such an extent that a number of visible leaders and figures in the candidate's own party dislike the guy.

[Defiant]

Hillary Clinton Wins Presidency !

[LordMortis]

I think 80-90% of Bernie supporters will vote Clinton.

I think that depends on how you define Bernie supporter. I think that you are right when it comes to Bernie Democrats. Maybe even more. I can't read the pulse of Bernie independents. To listen to the lot of them, 0% will vote for Hillary. I rather suspect the number is much much higher than that, but I don't think it approaches 80%. Again, I think this is Hillay's to lose. She will succeed or fail based on who she is. Against Trump that shouldn't be difficult. I sense it will.

It's going to be interesting. There is a lot of liberal shaming of Bernie supporters and women shaming of non Hillary supporters going on out there. We'll see how long memories are in November, I guess, and what people say vs what people do. Normally, after the primaries, her base would start making appeals to people outside themselves. That bridge still has torches being thrown at it.