The Art of the Donald Trumpocalypse

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:25 pm

It's unfortunate MSD that you can't see that your anger has been manufactured by those that seek to take advantage of it. Godspeed.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:43 pm

I would like to reiterate the point that R&P can be an unforgiving place where its easy to get butt hurt. Me included. I blow off steam and say shit here that is unwelcome elsewhere, and I expect to be called out on it and whacked around a bit -- I don't want an echo chamber where everyone thinks exactly alike. Even when we agree, we often come at it from different perspectives, and that is valuable now it's easy to live in a bubble.

But no matter how much I drive Mortis, Rip msd and others crazy (and vice versa), I hope we could always share a drink or pleasant social interaction in real life or share a laugh elsewhere on OO.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:45 pm

I'm just here because I was told there would be cake.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:55 pm

hepcat wrote:I'm just here because I was told there would be cake.

Yes, but only angel food white cake.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:18 pm

I'm listening. Tell me of your icing, Usul.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:21 pm

The cake is a lie.

Sorry.

Though I'll probably have some brownies ready later tonight. Just swing on by.

Default · Post by **Default** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:19 am

The brownies are an assumption.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:25 am

Good point. Plus, it's getting late. I'd better get on that. I'd hate to fail to deliver on my campaign promise....

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:00 am

Eh, they're probably from a mix.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:05 am

Kraken wrote:Eh, they're probably from a mix.

They are done. And delicious. And from scratch. So I would argue that they are from "The" mix.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:45 am

Zarathud wrote:I would like to reiterate the point that R&P can be an unforgiving place where its easy to get butt hurt. Me included. I blow off steam and say shit here that is unwelcome elsewhere, and I expect to be called out on it and whacked around a bit -- I don't want an echo chamber where everyone thinks exactly alike. Even when we agree, we often come at it from different perspectives, and that is valuable now it's easy to live in a bubble.

But no matter how much I drive Mortis, Rip msd and others crazy (and vice versa), I hope we could always share a drink or pleasant social interaction in real life or share a laugh elsewhere on OO.

I'm sure we could as long as YOU are buying.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:00 am

msduncan wrote:
I like interacting with you guys in the non-R&P forums better. When I find myself getting angry at you, I know it's time to check out. I've known most of you longer than many of my friends or coworkers, so I'd just assume this election not poison the friendships because it's going to be a nasty one.

This I can understand. And I really should've toned down some of my replies.

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:40 am

Kraken wrote:Eh, they're probably from a mix.

Yeah, but they're Colorado brownies.

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:44 am

No worries guys. I'm not taking my toys and going home. I realized several years ago that I *am* home. Think of it more like I'm having an argument with my family that is getting worse, so I decide to politely yield and pick up my coffee and go into the other room to play some Overwatch.

Heck I do this at work all the time when it comes to politics. As you can imagine I work in a corporation in the South so about 70% of the workforce is conservative with 30% that are not. I hear conversations in the hall all the time about politics that immediately I know make the other 30% uncomfortable so I find some excuse to ease away and go back to my desk.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:47 am

It wouldn't have made any difference. His anger is driven by an illusion he's constructed and reinforced for decades. It's not about your tone, it's about the frustration of no one here seeing the bogeymen he's constructed.

It becomes impossible to communicate at that point (for both sides) and very frustrating.

The anger he feels is real. The anger that drives Trump supporters is real. But the factors that drive that anger are not. It's anger based on a secret Muslim being President who was born in Kenya. It's anger that illegal immigrants are taking all of their jobs. It's anger that it's not ok to discriminate against their fellow citizens anymore without being called on it (alright, that one is real). It's fury over having to buy health insurance (that most of them were already buying). It's Benghazi!!! It's emails!!! It's almost all nonsense.

To argue that the last 8 years have somehow been some apocalyptic liberal utopia requires completely disconnecting from reality. You have to buy health insurance and it has to include contraceptive benefits and you can't force transgender people into the bathroom of your choosing rather than the one that makes them feel most comfortable.

The horror.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:56 am

Also, MSD - that sounds like an asshole post that I just wrote, but I don't even mean in that way (towards you, I do mean it that way towards Trump supporters).

For most of my life I bought into the Republican propaganda machine and got enraged at every little thing that they told me to be enraged about. When I finally saw it for what it was...man was that freeing. I can still have conservative leanings (fiscally). I can still prefer this conservative candidate over that liberal candidate, but I don't ever get fueled by anger because they are faking outrage to make me angry.

It's sole purpose is to control my vote. It's the exact same thing that the Democrats did throughout my youth, attempting to scare old people into voting for them with the SS bogeyman (while they too raided the SS cookie jar).

You could be a conservative voice here that defends conservative principles. But you have to stop reacting to the emotionally charged bullshit the modern conservative media feeds you to keep you angry.

They don't deserve your loyalty.

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:12 am

RunningMn9 wrote:Also, MSD - that sounds like an asshole post that I just wrote, but I don't even mean in that way (towards you, I do mean it that way towards Trump supporters).

For most of my life I bought into the Republican propaganda machine and got enraged at every little thing that they told me to be enraged about. When I finally saw it for what it was...man was that freeing. I can still have conservative leanings (fiscally). I can still prefer this conservative candidate over that liberal candidate, but I don't ever get fueled by anger because they are faking outrage to make me angry.

It's sole purpose is to control my vote. It's the exact same thing that the Democrats did throughout my youth, attempting to scare old people into voting for them with the SS bogeyman (while they too raided the SS cookie jar).

You could be a conservative voice here that defends conservative principles. But you have to stop reacting to the emotionally charged bullshit the modern conservative media feeds you to keep you angry.

They don't deserve your loyalty.

I understand and can see that. My problem with the Democratic party (and literally just about everyone they put forward) is that they are almost universally against the only two issues I really am uncompromising on: the 2nd Amendment and anti-federalism/States rights.

Do care if homosexuals get married? Heck no. I have many gay coworkers and friends and when you get to know people that love each other and just want to be together you really drop your objections to it. Do I care if people use bathrooms? Haven't they been doing that for 100 years without the public eye on it? Probably.

Do I think the immigration problem is worse than it was 15 years ago? Probably not. Just more publicity on it. I am one of those guys that doesn't bend rules and strictly follows the law however -- so that's my major beef with illegals is that their first act of coming into the country is to break the law. Then they break more laws by hiding. I don't like lawbreakers and I never have no matter what they are doing. That opinion towards people who bend and break laws is also why this email thing is waaaay higher on my list than any of you. Benghazi? I passed on that over a year ago. The email thing really bothers me because we are holding people to different standards of law based on their position of authority and that eats at my core.

Anyway... I'm not a single issue voter, but almost. I could care less about this social crap or really even the taxes, etc. I'm a two or three issue voter and it's my bad luck that the Democrats are completely universally opposite than me on those two or three issues. Since the balance of the Supreme Court is looming large over two of these three issues (2nd Amendment and federalism), I'm in a bad spot this go around.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:29 am

I have no doubt the insecurity and anger is real. My dad was forced to retire early after shipping his job to China, then to Mexico after the Chinese screwed the company by ripping off their product lines. Mom works with immigrants on a manufacturing line where she and a few other long-timers know everyone is replaceable. The family members in the unions did well, but saw their other family treated like shit by corporate management and their futures sold.

Fortunately, they realize Trump would be a disaster and the one least likely to help.

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:13 am

RunningMn9 wrote: The anger he feels is real. The anger that drives Trump supporters is real. But the factors that drive that anger are not. It's anger based on a secret Muslim being President who was born in Kenya. It's anger that illegal immigrants are taking all of their jobs. It's anger that it's not ok to discriminate against their fellow citizens anymore without being called on it (alright, that one is real). It's fury over having to buy health insurance (that most of them were already buying). It's Benghazi!!! It's emails!!! It's almost all nonsense.

I don't think this is quite right. I don't want to rehash a whole discussion from pages back in this thread, but I think discounting the wave of anger that pushed Trump to the nomination as "nonsense" is wishful thinking. If it were only that simple . . . a bunch of stupid, angry bigots is a problem we've dealt with before. I feel like this Trump (and to some extent, Sanders) thing is something else. It's easy to blame all the anger on the partisan political talking heads, the echo chamber and talk radio, but I think all those things may be more the symptom than the problem.

Right or wrong, I think people feel left behind.

And more and more, people in this country live separate lives with very little real connection. As someone who has graduated college, gone to law school, started a family, and done reasonably well, I have so little in common with vast swaths of the population. In terms of points of commonality and life experience, if a UFO landed on my street, I'd probably have more in common with its alien pilots than with many Trump supporters.

Maybe it is all "nonsense", but I can't dismiss it as such because I can't even relate to these people. I do suspect that the last twenty years or so hasn't been for them what it has for me. . .

Smutly · Post by **Smutly** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:41 am

msduncan wrote:Checking out of R&P again. Rip: it's all yours buddy. Have a great election guys!

Yeah, this has pretty much been my policy, MSD. I still read just to try to understand the other side, but I came to the same conclusion as you. For me to be a more positive person I can't discuss politics, so I won't...at least not here.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:08 pm

I thought one of the purposes of having an R&P forum was to have a place to vent your spleen without people taking anything personally.

The idea was that things may get heated, but not boil over into other forums.

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:26 pm

tgb wrote:I thought one of the purposes of having an R&P forum was to have a place to vent your spleen without people taking anything personally.

The idea was that things may get heated, but not boil over into other forums.

And I think that works. I enjoy everyone's company in other forums. I just find myself getting overly angry here and I'd rather not be angry.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:36 pm

MSD, I'll pass right over the irony that one of your issues is State's Rights, and that this drives you to the Republican Party.

My only real comment on that is that State's Rights only ever seems to come up when a State wants to use its Rights to discriminate against a segment of its citizens. States can't do that (because their citizens are also US citizens and as such have rights that exceed those of the State). If Montana wants to mandate a gun in every home, that's cool with me. If Montana wants to mandate that only blond hair people can get married, well that's not ok - and I don't particularly care if they mandate that because it is a deeply held religious belief by most Montanans. For an analogue, do you think most pro-2nd Amendment folks would just sit idly by if another State banned all guns? There are limits to States Rights, and the federal govt has the responsibility to defend your rights as a US citizen, even from your State.

As to the 2nd Amendment issue, I don't know that we've ever actually spoken about where your deeply held belief came from. It didn't exist as an actual right until 2008, and didn't even exist as a real concept until the mid/late 1970s.

Before that, the 2nd Amendment was routinely held to not refer to an individual right (which is why various bans have always been in place for "arms"). That historical reality was the centerpiece of the most recent Federal Appeals ruling that ruled that conceal carry restrictions are perfectly ok in CA.

I'll say it again - the danger of a limited set of issues that define your political actions is that you might be completely wrong about them. I've asked before - which of your deeply held beliefs are you completely wrong about? Everyone says "none" of them. They can't all be right.

Many years ago (about 9? Jesus) I made the decision to try to interact on issues rather than events. Viewing events through ideological blinders just seems stupid to me, but exploring the ideology of someone's beliefs and how that applies to the issues of the day, that's worthwhile.

Especially in light of the fact that we're both probably wrong, the answer lies in between. And I can't find the answer if I'm only ever talking to people that agree with me.

Being correct is always more important than being right.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:38 pm

Smutly wrote: For me to be a more positive person I can't discuss politics, so I won't...at least not here.

Sounds like you need a Safe Space to talk about your feelings.

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:51 pm

Btw I'm now anti-Post Office. Last week they drove over my new sod and tore it up to save themselves 5 feet of walking to deliver a package, and yesterday they ran into my mailbox with their car and tore it down.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:20 pm

Trump takes a bow after worst mass shooting in US history.

It boggles my mind that so many people are excited to vote for that human garbage.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:23 pm

I was just asking when he'd start crowing about these deaths as if he were proud of them in another thread. The man is the lowest, most vile form of politician that can be. And the people supporting him are the product of blind rage and irrational fear.

In reading through his twitter responses, I was heartened to see numerous people calling him out for the sick opportunist he is. Meghan McCain simply replied:

@realDonaldTrump You're congratulating yourself because 50 people are dead this morning in a horrific tragedy?

Xmann · Post by **Xmann** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:25 pm

msteelers wrote:Trump takes a bow after worst mass shooting in US history.

It boggles my mind that so many people are excited to vote for that human garbage.

This guy is a fucking scum bag.

Fucking unreal

killbot737 · Post by **killbot737** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:25 pm

msduncan wrote:Btw I'm now anti-Post Office. Last week they drove over my new sod and tore it up to save themselves 5 feet of walking to deliver a package, and yesterday they ran into my mailbox with their car and tore it down.

Did you recently move to Vermont to write a book?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:29 pm

I'm beginning to suspect Trump is playing the part of Dr. Manhattan from The Watchmen movie. He's here to become our world's worst nightmare, thus pulling us all together in our shared dislike of the man.

...well, I can dream, can't I?

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:30 pm

Xmann wrote:
msteelers wrote:Trump takes a bow after worst mass shooting in US history.

It boggles my mind that so many people are excited to vote for that human garbage.
This guy is a fucking scum bag.

Fucking unreal

I wonder if there's still anything he can say or do that would shock me? I consistently expect the worst from Trump...so I imagine he could surprise me by delivering something less.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:13 pm

Unfortunately this sort of statement will draw Trumpettes like flies to shit (analogy intended). I've been saying for months that we're one terrorist attack away from a Trump landslide. At least the alleged shooter wasn't an illegal, Mexican or otherwise.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:40 pm

msduncan wrote:Btw I'm now anti-Post Office. Last week they drove over my new sod and tore it up to save themselves 5 feet of walking to deliver a package, and yesterday they ran into my mailbox with their car and tore it down.

Are there pro-Post Office people?

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:42 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:
msduncan wrote:Btw I'm now anti-Post Office. Last week they drove over my new sod and tore it up to save themselves 5 feet of walking to deliver a package, and yesterday they ran into my mailbox with their car and tore it down.
Are there pro-Post Office people?

Maybe the people that work there...no scratch that.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:50 pm

Xmann wrote:
msteelers wrote:Trump takes a bow after worst mass shooting in US history.

It boggles my mind that so many people are excited to vote for that human garbage.
This guy is a fucking scum bag.

Fucking unreal

Not a single mention of the victims, just all about him. I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the level of repugnance he can sink to.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:46 pm

Skinypupy wrote:Not a single mention of the victims, just all about him. I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the level of repugnance he can sink to.

This is my issue. I was fuming when I saw these tweets. He is a classic narcissist shit bag. Preening about how smart he is. Oh really? He predicted a terrorist attack during the U.S. elections. What a genius.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:06 pm

And yet, is there a single person that was pro-Trump yesterday that cares one iota that this narcissist made it about him? They were the ones congratulating him on being right.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:32 pm

Visit Trump's Facebook page. They really believe he is "right" because he's the only one who sees ISIS as a threat. (Presumably the rest of us think ISIS are boy scouts.) He's going to be tough and vigilant and prevent homegrown radicalization by nuking Mecca (or at least Dearborn).

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:27 pm

Holman wrote: He's going to be tough and vigilant and prevent homegrown radicalization by nuking Mecca .

Good enough for me. He's got my vote.

Wait. I thought you said Macca.

Never mind, then.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:40 pm

I did get one thing from the tweet. Well, from the replies.

"a Trump humble brag"

If that don't sum him up...