The Art of the Donald Trumpocalypse

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:42 pm

I'm pretty sure Ryan is just part of the dishonest media at this point.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:55 pm

You mean Paul RIaNO?

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:06 pm

Defiant wrote:
Rip wrote:
It isn't the fringe of the party. He won by a landslide with turnout up 62%. While Democrat turnout was down 21%. Just sayin.
I thought he won about 40% while there were other candidates in the field. After they dropped out, he got 70-80%.

Also, while Republican turnout was up, I'm not impressed with the turnout comparisons, since they compare Democrats to 2008 (a record high turnout) while they compare Republican turnout to 2012 (a fairly low turnout for Republicans during a non-incumbency primary - the total number of Republicans who turned out in 2012 was significantly lower than in 2008, which wasn't that high)

Trump set turnout and voting records. It isn't about on and off years.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:14 pm

Rip wrote: Trump set turnout and voting records. It isn't about on and off years.

He got 15% more votes than Bush got in 2000, in a country who's population increased about 15% in that time. Big whoop.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:15 pm

Fireball wrote:
YellowKing wrote:I think you "4 years" folks are probably right. I said 8 years more to get a rise out of my stepdad.

One would imagine (though I've been proven wrong many times before) that the Republican party would be very careful about the next batch of candidates. All it would take to beat Hillary in 2020 would be someone who comes off as halfway sane. Though that seems to be a pretty tall order these days.
Except that the Republican Party has no say regarding who runs for their nomination in 2020.

Currently. I think that if they lose this year, there will be significant changes to the Nomination process to do their best to avoid this from ever, ever happening again (can't have those pesky voters actually decide things, it's much more conservative to shut them out). It's much easier than looking in the mirror and realizing what they've become and trying to change that.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:55 pm

Watched a bit of Trump's speech in Raleigh, NC.

The guy's a hell of an entertaining speaker, I'll give him that. And boy does he know his branding. Tossing in "Crooked Hillary" at every opportunity just sears it into the brain to the point where it no longer comes off as a juvenile insult, but her actual name.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:03 pm

first hit's free.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:04 pm

YellowKing wrote:Watched a bit of Trump's speech in Raleigh, NC.

The guy's a hell of an entertaining speaker, I'll give him that. And boy does he know his branding. Tossing in "Crooked Hillary" at every opportunity just sears it into the brain to the point where it no longer comes off as a juvenile insult, but her actual name.

I literally couldn't watch it. I tried a couple of times but just seeing his face made me change the channel.

KKBlue · Post by **KKBlue** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:27 pm

I've honestly tried to like the man. Just like.
Really having a difficult time with all the hatred swirling in the air this year.

I am on the fence about going out with another couple because they are "vocal" Trump supporters on Facebook. I just can't seem to handle people who think this person would make a great president. The trump people seem to always get very loud and angry if not agreed with. I don't plan on talking politics and don't typically anyways. This might be the last time we get together if they go off the handle. Still waiting for my family to explode. Boggles my mind how the majority of my family are Trump supporters and get VERY loud to the point of not even hearing what they are saying nor understanding or even letting a few of us finish a sentence. Amazing and unbelievably scary.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:43 pm

I've never ever discussed politics with my brother, which probably sounds strange, but there you are. I was shocked to learn (from my sister) that he and his wife are ardent Trump supporters. I still don't discuss politics with either one of t hem.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:50 pm

I know he's supposed to be charismatic. I've seen enough of crowd reactions to know it must be true. But everything about that guy rubs me the wrong way. The most charitable thing I can say is that he's sometimes entertaining in a talk-radio shock-jock sort of way.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:23 am

KKBlue wrote:Boggles my mind how the majority of my family are Trump supporters and get VERY loud to the point of not even hearing what they are saying nor understanding or even letting a few of us finish a sentence. Amazing and unbelievably scary.

I'm fortunate. Most of my family are the Trump target audience, but only my brother has drunk the Trump Kool-Aid. But he's pretty much a professional asshole and unemployed "consultant." Apparently, the Mexicans have stolen all the IT jobs that were supposed to be handed to him.

Dad was a manufacturing engineer who was force to retire after his company shipped his job to Mexico after critically failing to outsource it to China. He called me in 1992 to brag that he cancelled my vote by voting for Ross Perot, and didn't appreciate finding out that I had also voted for Perot. Dad's not hot for Hillary, but recognizes Trump as an unqualified liar. He's also turned on Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker after retiring there.

raydude · Post by **raydude** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:42 am

I wonder if it helps to point out to Trump supporters that his policies will affect personal lives? For example, maybe point out that your hispanic friend or neighbor - or even better, Muslim friend or neighbor, will now be under a cloud of suspicion.

I think that might be the case, since in my area we have a good mix of minorities and non-minorities, so people have learned that the "other" is not the big enemy Trump makes them out to be.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:45 am

Watching him last night I realized that I may have totally misjudged how he would perform in a debate against Hillary.

My first instinct was that an experienced, cool and collected politician like Hillary would slice him apart. Just give him enough rope to hang himself, then sit back and watch him swing.

However, we all know by now that a lot of voters don't watch the debates, they just watch the highlight reel. And nothing makes the highlight reel quicker than a nasty jab, a catchy soundbite, or a funny catchphrase. Trump is a master of all three, and I could see him stunning Hillary with an over-the-top aggressive attack right out of the gate.

Even though on substance she could probably annihilate him, I think that may all be overshadowed by his quips. If she shows even the slightest hint of weakness, I have no doubt he will go for the jugular with some nasty soundbite that is so outrageous that the media can't help but splash it in the headlines.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:49 am

raydude wrote:- or even better, Muslim friend or neighbor, will now be under a cloud of suspicion.

I think you underestimate how much of a positive this is for many Trump supporters.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:59 am

I bet that a lot of the rabid Trump supporters think that his policies either wouldn't actually happen ("it's just campaign talk"), or would only affect the "bad" sorts of people, while the "good" ones they know personally would be somehow shielded. Similar thought process to why Congress in the abstract is absolutely terrible, but MY representatives are great and not the problem, so I just keep re-electing them.

KKBlue · Post by **KKBlue** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:36 am

hepcat wrote:
raydude wrote:- or even better, Muslim friend or neighbor, will now be under a cloud of suspicion.
I think you underestimate how much of a positive this is for many Trump supporters.

A 2014 Superbowl commercial with America the Beautiful was sung, 2014 and a family member lost her mind, in front of us all including her grandchildren. This ad featured different ethnic backgrounds and languages.

I did comment because I was frightened by the impact she had on the children and developing more hate towards others who are not white skinned, catholics. I said out loud, "America is made up of all backgrounds. We came from all different countries. America IS the great melting pot." I don't remember anything past that point. Don't believe there was a drag-out.

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:36 am

Kraken wrote:One man tries to understand Who Are All These Trump Supporters? and writes at length about his conclusions in the New Yorker.

Where is all this anger coming from? It’s viral, and Trump is Typhoid Mary. Intellectually and emotionally weakened by years of steadily degraded public discourse, we are now two separate ideological countries, LeftLand and RightLand, speaking different languages, the lines between us down. Not only do our two subcountries reason differently; they draw upon non-intersecting data sets and access entirely different mythological systems. You and I approach a castle. One of us has watched only “Monty Python and the Holy Grail,” the other only “Game of Thrones.” What is the meaning, to the collective “we,” of yon castle? We have no common basis from which to discuss it. You, the other knight, strike me as bafflingly ignorant, a little unmoored. In the old days, a liberal and a conservative (a “dove” and a “hawk,” say) got their data from one of three nightly news programs, a local paper, and a handful of national magazines, and were thus starting with the same basic facts (even if those facts were questionable, limited, or erroneous). Now each of us constructs a custom informational universe, wittingly (we choose to go to the sources that uphold our existing beliefs and thus flatter us) or unwittingly (our app algorithms do the driving for us). The data we get this way, pre-imprinted with spin and mythos, are intensely one-dimensional. (As a proud knight of LeftLand, I was interested to find that, in RightLand, Vince Foster has still been murdered, Dick Morris is a reliable source, kids are brainwashed “way to the left” by going to college, and Obama may yet be Muslim. I expect that my interviewees found some of my core beliefs equally jaw-dropping.)

In terms of Trump supporters and their views of how his policies (of the moment) would impact actual people, the article above that Kraken linked to is an extremely good read. It's long, but it's worth it. Warning: It's also pretty damn depressing!

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:50 am

CNN

Donald Trump on Tuesday once again expressed his preference for keeping dictators in power in the Middle East.

While acknowledging that Saddam Hussein "was a bad guy," Trump praised the former Iraqi dictator's efficient killing of "terrorists" -- despite the fact that Iraq was listed as a state sponsor of terrorism during Hussein's time in power.

Trump, who supported the Iraq War before the invasion and in the early months of the war, said the U.S. "shouldn't have destabilized" Iraq before pivoting to praising Hussein.

"He was a bad guy -- really bad guy. But you know what? He did well? He killed terrorists. He did that so good. They didn't read them the rights. They didn't talk. They were terrorists. Over. Today, Iraq is Harvard for terrorism," Trump said.

The remarks came during a rally where he was introduced by Tennessee Sen. Bob Corker, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, who is a potential running mate for Trump.

Asked Tuesday night on Fox News about the comments, House Speaker Paul Ryan appeared taken aback by Trump's words.

"He was one of the 20th century's most evil people," Ryan said of the former Iraqi strongman.
...
The presumptive Republican nominee has previously said that Iraq and Libya -- two countries that have become ISIS strongholds -- would be better off if Hussein and Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi were still alive and in power in their respective countries.

I look forward to President-for-life Trump helping us join the Axis of Evil.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:20 am

"He was a bad guy -- really bad guy. But you know what? He did well? He killed terrorists.

You know what else he did? He funded other terrorists. And he provided safe haven to some of them.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:29 am

Defiant wrote:
"He was a bad guy -- really bad guy. But you know what? He did well? He killed terrorists.
You know what else he did? He funded other terrorists. And he provided safe haven to some of them.

You know what else he did? He got a whole lotta help from the good ol USA.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:31 am

So... Trump gets a pass for overturning the entirety of GOP doctrine on the Second Iraq war? Bush and Cheney told us Saddam *was* a terrorist, and that he was amassing WMD's to use against the United States. That was the justification for invading.

I fully expect Trump to come out in support of Assad before November. We're just lucky that Uday isn't available as a running mate.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:46 am

YellowKing wrote:
Even though on substance she could probably annihilate him, I think that may all be overshadowed by his quips. If she shows even the slightest hint of weakness, I have no doubt he will go for the jugular with some nasty soundbite that is so outrageous that the media can't help but splash it in the headlines.

I've thought so all along. People who pay attention to policy details are already anti-Trump (if not necessarily pro-Clinton). For those who are in it for the spectacle -- which is probably the majority -- Hillary is boring and gray and Trump delivers the entertainment.

Kurth wrote:
Kraken wrote:One man tries to understand Who Are All These Trump Supporters? and writes at length about his conclusions in the New Yorker.

Where is all this anger coming from? It’s viral, and Trump is Typhoid Mary. Intellectually and emotionally weakened by years of steadily degraded public discourse, we are now two separate ideological countries, LeftLand and RightLand, speaking different languages, the lines between us down. Not only do our two subcountries reason differently; they draw upon non-intersecting data sets and access entirely different mythological systems. You and I approach a castle. One of us has watched only “Monty Python and the Holy Grail,” the other only “Game of Thrones.” What is the meaning, to the collective “we,” of yon castle? We have no common basis from which to discuss it. You, the other knight, strike me as bafflingly ignorant, a little unmoored. In the old days, a liberal and a conservative (a “dove” and a “hawk,” say) got their data from one of three nightly news programs, a local paper, and a handful of national magazines, and were thus starting with the same basic facts (even if those facts were questionable, limited, or erroneous). Now each of us constructs a custom informational universe, wittingly (we choose to go to the sources that uphold our existing beliefs and thus flatter us) or unwittingly (our app algorithms do the driving for us). The data we get this way, pre-imprinted with spin and mythos, are intensely one-dimensional. (As a proud knight of LeftLand, I was interested to find that, in RightLand, Vince Foster has still been murdered, Dick Morris is a reliable source, kids are brainwashed “way to the left” by going to college, and Obama may yet be Muslim. I expect that my interviewees found some of my core beliefs equally jaw-dropping.)
In terms of Trump supporters and their views of how his policies (of the moment) would impact actual people, the article above that Kraken linked to is an extremely good read. It's long, but it's worth it. Warning: It's also pretty damn depressing!

That's the New Yorker for you. It's like they think the world is complicated.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:46 am

God knows that's what this country needs in its leadership... entertainment.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:43 pm

Zarathud wrote: Apparently, the Mexicans have stolen all the IT jobs that were supposed to be handed to him.

INS or whatever it's called now won't let that happen. Unless a company takes your IT job to Mexico. If my company could bring up IT pros from Mexico to work in the states and fire the likes of me, they would. But the Fed and the competition would put them out of business in a week or two. Every time we bring up an IT pro from Mexico to survey what's going on, that's essentially all they can do. Survey and either put the work on me or a consultant. Heck, working for a Mexican company, there are a shitton of legal proceedings you have to go through to bring someone to the US to work to prove that the labor cannot be sourced locally. Essentially, it's only IP work.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:14 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Zarathud wrote: Apparently, the Mexicans have stolen all the IT jobs that were supposed to be handed to him.
INS or whatever it's called now won't let that happen. Unless a company takes your IT job to Mexico. If my company could bring up IT pros from Mexico to work in the states and fire the likes of me, they would. But the Fed and the competition would put them out of business in a week or two. Every time we bring up an IT pro from Mexico to survey what's going on, that's essentially all they can do. Survey and either put the work on me or a consultant. Heck, working for a Mexican company, there are a shitton of legal proceedings you have to go through to bring someone to the US to work to prove that the labor cannot be sourced locally. Essentially, it's only IP work.

India is a different story however...

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:19 am

Naturally Trump isn't backing down on his anti-semitic tweet, posting this:

Gotta say I absolutely loved Clinton's twitter response:

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:52 am

El Guapo wrote:Naturally Trump isn't backing down on his anti-semitic tweet, posting this:

Further reinforcing Trump's complete tone-deafness on the issue...as well as my opinion that there's no way he's not a Clinton plant. (adjusts tin foil hat)

Gotta say I absolutely loved Clinton's twitter response:

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:39 pm

He's gonna build the best strawman. It's going to be yuge....the biggest strawman the world has ever seen. And Hillary will pay for it.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:10 pm

Strawman of a strawman. Nice.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:16 pm

Rip wrote:Strawman of a strawman. Nice.

Strawman of a strawman of a strawman. Nice.

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:18 pm

At this point, anyone still defending him is a troll or a complete fucking moron.

Malificent · Post by **Malificent** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:35 pm

My question is:

If Trump didn't think there was something wrong with the original tweet, then why delete it in the first place?

I feel stupid asking, because I know Donald Trump is just trolling us all.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:52 pm

Malificent wrote:My question is:

If Trump didn't think there was something wrong with the original tweet, then why delete it in the first place?

I feel stupid asking, because I know Donald Trump is just trolling us all.

I heard a quote earlier from him where he claims to be upset that his team changed the star. He says he would rather stand his ground and fight.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:59 pm

Reminds me of my defense as a 7 year old that I just meant to call the other kid "donkey" by referring to him as a "jackass" on the playground. No one believed me.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:01 pm

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt to an extent, but when you do racist shit you're going to be called out on doing racist shit even if you aren't doing racist shit.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:18 pm

tjg_marantz wrote:At this point, anyone still defending him is a troll or a complete fucking moron.

Why can't they be both?

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:32 pm

YellowKing wrote:when you do racist shit you're going to be called out on doing racist shit even if you aren't doing racist shit.

I... ummm... huh.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:52 pm

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:56 pm

Jeff V wrote:
tjg_marantz wrote:At this point, anyone still defending him is a troll or a complete fucking moron.
Why can't they be both?

I'll get back to you on that one.

A troll knows what he's doing and doing it on purpose. A moron... debatable, he usually just believes what he says because... reasons!