The Hillary Clinton thread

[Defiant]

One question I have is, were these deplorables deplorable before, or are they just following Trump's lead? And if a bunch of them are, will their deplorable views wane once/if he's out of the picture?

They were deplorable before. Trump's nomination is the triumph of their deplorability, not the other way around. The least-qualified and most unstable candidate in American history overcame a major political party to seize the nomination by promising the deplorables what they wanted.
[..]
But only one of the leading candidates has made these views the centerpiece of his campaign and elevated them to such an influential role in the national discourse. Only one of the leading candidates actually supports these views and works to legitimize them. Only one of the candidates has invited leading proponents of these views to a privileged place at the political table.

But that's just it, I think by legitimizing them he has bad some of them follow his lead. I've seen this anecdotally (people who had opinion X and now that they follow Trump, they have opinion -X after Trump said -X) as well as among leaders in the republican party (some of which had spoken against what he said, and now go lock step behind him). I mean, some of it might just be supporting your candidate cause you want to win, even if you don't agree with everything he said, but still...

[GreenGoo]

Unless I'm mistaken Bill is a private citizen who can give as many speeches for money as he wants. Or handjobs for that matter (but only in Nevada. Nigeria would kill him). That's standard fare for ex-presidents.

Drumpf is stroking Putin while criticizing the sitting president, but Bill needs to be held to a higher standard (Johnson doesn't know who Putin is or where Nigeria is, so he gets a pass)?

The Clintons are not nearly as bad as they are portrayed. Not even in the same orbit.

[ImLawBoy]

Being President is grueling and it has a visible effect on the person who is President. Appearing weak, sickly, lethargic, or vulnerable to high stress activities(like campaigning) is not going to go unnoticed by the voters.

I'm not going so far as to say this will cost her the election but I'd be willing to bet there are a lot of people out there who might have been leaning towards voting for her who are now wondering if she could hack it for four years.

I'm assuming she's been given any and all assistance modern medicine has to offer for the sole purpose of marching through this campaign full speed ahead, and yet she got sick. That's not a good sign.

But are there really that many people who are going to vote for Hillary, but decide that if she won't be healthy for four years, they'd rather have Trump?

[gilraen]

Being President is grueling and it has a visible effect on the person who is President. Appearing weak, sickly, lethargic, or vulnerable to high stress activities(like campaigning) is not going to go unnoticed by the voters.

I'm not going so far as to say this will cost her the election but I'd be willing to bet there are a lot of people out there who might have been leaning towards voting for her who are now wondering if she could hack it for four years.

I'm assuming she's been given any and all assistance modern medicine has to offer for the sole purpose of marching through this campaign full speed ahead, and yet she got sick. That's not a good sign.

She is constantly in crowds of hundreds of people, inhaling every bug under the sun, and she finally caught the pneumonia that was going around her campaign staff for the last few weeks. If that disqualifies her in the eyes of ANYONE, they weren't going to vote for her anyway.

[El Guapo]

I'm assuming she's been given any and all assistance modern medicine has to offer for the sole purpose of marching through this campaign full speed ahead, and yet she got sick. That's not a good sign.

You, uh, realize that modern medicine hasn't yet figured out how to stop people from ever getting sick?

[Holman]

A Nigerian newspaper publisher tied to the ruling People's Democratic Party (spoiler: they are not democratic) paid Bill Clinton $1.4 million to deliver two speeches in 2011 and 2012. The Clintons closed their eyes to the human rights abuses by Nigeria's brutal president, Goodluck Jonathan, as they collected their checks. Secretary Clinton made an official visit to Nigeria in 2012, congratulating Jonathan on his non-existent "reform efforts". American legitimacy was bestowed at a bargain price and was just the opposite of what Human Rights Watch implored her to do.

This makes it sound it sound like Jonathan's gov't personally paid off Clinton and got a free pass for tyranny in return.

What about the fact that the main point of the visit was to shore up regional efforts against Boko Haram, the African crisis of greatest importance at the time? Or that Nigeria had been the focus of U.S. diplomatic efforts for much longer than Clinton had been Secretary of State? Or that our involvement in the country helped to bring along the 2015 election (internationally regarded as relatively free and fair) that saw Jonathan lose and step down in the country's first peaceful transfer of power?

Diplomacy happens. Sometimes you shake a bad guy's hand to get the treaty signed.

[Isgrimnur]

Partisan hack authors don't want you to think about realpolitik. If the people we deal with have an unpaid parking ticket, their opponents in government should have nuked them before working with them to fight a more dangerous group.

[Smutly]

Unless I'm mistaken Bill is a private citizen who can give as many speeches for money as he wants. Or handjobs for that matter (but only in Nevada. Nigeria would kill him). That's standard fare for ex-presidents.

Drumpf is stroking Putin while criticizing the sitting president, but Bill needs to be held to a higher standard (Johnson doesn't know who Putin is or where Nigeria is, so he gets a pass)?

The Clintons are not nearly as bad as they are portrayed. Not even in the same orbit.

Yes, Bill can. I have to go to work now, but I will try to provide the chain of reasoning as to why this is a bad thing. Bill making speeches by himself - no problem. Hillary making decisions as Secretary of State - no problem. A high correlation of favorable decisions for those who pay Bill by Hillary - problem.

Gotta go make the donuts.

[hepcat]

Even Gary Johnson plays the politics for cash game. He's been on the payroll of the Koch brothers for quite some time.

[Rip]

Being President is grueling and it has a visible effect on the person who is President. Appearing weak, sickly, lethargic, or vulnerable to high stress activities(like campaigning) is not going to go unnoticed by the voters.

I'm not going so far as to say this will cost her the election but I'd be willing to bet there are a lot of people out there who might have been leaning towards voting for her who are now wondering if she could hack it for four years.

I'm assuming she's been given any and all assistance modern medicine has to offer for the sole purpose of marching through this campaign full speed ahead, and yet she got sick. That's not a good sign.

She is constantly in crowds of hundreds of people, inhaling every bug under the sun, and she finally caught the pneumonia that was going around her campaign staff for the last few weeks. If that disqualifies her in the eyes of ANYONE, they weren't going to vote for her anyway.

Then she did the Democratic thing and went out there interacting with her supporters to make sure they could get it as well.

Nice.

[Zarathud]

A high correlation of favorable decisions for those who pay Bill by Hillary - problem.

Not causation. And not even unexpected that a former President would be courted by anyone trying to navigate Washington. Bill is also a tremendous speaker with a generally solid reputation. The Clintons were able to choose their events carefully to appear before friendly parties.

Most of the "suspicious" examples are parties who had a good relationship with the Clinton administration, and that was unlikely to change after Bill left office or Hillary held office.

And if you really hated money in politics, you should support campaign finance reform and a repeal of Citizens United.

[Rip]

I'm assuming she's been given any and all assistance modern medicine has to offer for the sole purpose of marching through this campaign full speed ahead, and yet she got sick. That's not a good sign.

You, uh, realize that modern medicine hasn't yet figured out how to stop people from ever getting sick?

One of the things they figured long ago is if you have something contagious don't go out in public and give it to everyone else.

Hillary pneumonia tour.

[YellowKing]

If she had stayed in, Republicans would have been raking her over the coals for hiding in seclusion and not interacting with her supporters. It's a lose-lose for her all around.

[Jaymann]

Uh, pneumonia is not contagious.

[hepcat]

Uh, pneumonia is not contagious.

He was talking about being democrat. That shit's contagious as hell.

[geezer]

Uh, pneumonia is not contagious.

Forget it - he's rolling.

[Moliere]

Uh, pneumonia is not contagious.

Forget it - he's rolling.

[Rip]

Uh, pneumonia is not contagious.

One hundred years ago, pneumonia and heart disease traded places for the number one cause of death. Now, the mortality rate is far lower, but 50,000 people in the U.S. still die each year from pneumonia. That’s just a fraction of the 2 to 5 million Americans the Centers for Disease Control estimates come down with the disease each year.

“Pneumonia’s an infection that involves the lungs,” says Dr. Mark Sprenkle, chief of pulmonary and critical care at the Hennepin County Medical Center. “It can be caused by many different kinds of organisms from viruses to bacteria to fungus.”

According to the American Lung Association, common symptoms include cough, fever, chills and shortness of breath. The term “walking pneumonia” is used to describe a less severe kind of pneumonia

.

Pneumonia can be contagious and spread from person to person.

“It can be inhaled. Some are caught by droplets from people when they sneeze or cough,” says Sprenkle. “Other times, it’s less clear. Bacteria can colonize the back of the throat and if people aspirate a little bit of that down in to the lungs, that can lead to it too.”

Sometimes, a viral infection, like influenza, can cause problems in the respiratory tract. That could also predispose people to developing more serious bacterial pneumonia.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/09/1 ... pneumonia/

[LordMortis]

While I hate to encourage him, point Rip. As far as I know, pneumonia is a state of your lungs being filled by fluid and not contagious but the infections that commonly cause pneumonia usually are and in this case it has been reportedly known "to be going around"

http://www.people.com/article/hillary-c ... -pneumonia

And without any overt political agenda, I hate "those brave souls" who know they're sick and then go to work and expose other people and the next thing you know "it's going around." It's a big pet peeve of mine.

[Holman]

Clinton got the diagnosis on Friday and began immediate strong antibiotics (the effect of which we saw on Sunday). Walking Pneumonia is considered no longer contagious after the antibiotics kick in. The staff sickness went around before people knew what it was.

Unless she was sloppily kissing babies on Friday afternoon, Clinton wasn't knowingly putting anyone at risk. Walking Pneumonia patients undergoing treatment don't need quarantine.

[El Guapo]

The whole thing is just frustrating and infuriating as an "incident" / "scandal." She got pneumonia, she took antibiotics, she went to an event that she ultimately proved not up to given that she was sick. Maybe she should have stayed home instead, maybe the press statement could have been better, but that's all inconsequential details. Point is that this (as far as I can tell) raises no real long-term issues about her broader health - she just got pneumonia, as people do.

But because the Trump campaign has seeded the press environment with bullshit nonsense about her broader health, this gets reported as "Clinton has health issues!" and again spins bullshit out of nothing.

[Alefroth]

Uh, pneumonia is not contagious.

Most forms of pneumonia are contagious, but chances are that Hillary's wasn't anymore.

edit: Late to the party I see.

[Smoove_B]

Point is that this (as far as I can tell) raises no real long-term issues about her broader health - she just got pneumonia, as people do.

But you're not looking at the bigger picture here. She didn't tell us on Friday that she pneumonia. Clinton LIED about her health to everyone and people DIED (well, their belief that she wasn't sick). Don't you understand? How can she be TRUSTED to lead the country when she can't even be TRUSTED to disclose she has AN INFECTION? Is that the kind of person you want for President? A liar? URANIUM!

[GreenGoo]

Yawn.

[hepcat]

I think there are a lot of people making medical guesses about an Electroid from the Eighth Dimension. But how many of them actually studied medicine in the Eighth Dimension? For all we know, fainting and falling over is a form of greeting in their society.

[malchior]

This does expoee the classic "Clinton" weakness. They want everything to be perfect. Every story has to be spun just right. Heck it is probably the root cause of the untrustworthy label they both wear. Bill got away with it because he has a CHR of like 19. Hillary is like a 7. So when the propaganda machine lands the occassional hit on she will tend to find a way to step in the shit. And I don't expect them to unlearn this now.

[ImLawBoy]

I think there are a lot of people making medical guesses about an Electroid from the Eighth Dimension. But how many of them actually studied medicine in the Eighth Dimension? For all we know, fainting and falling over is a form of greeting in their society.

I keep trying to come up with a "Bigboo-tay!" joke that doesn't come off as sexist here . . . .

[malchior]

I think there are a lot of people making medical guesses about an Electroid from the Eighth Dimension. But how many of them actually studied medicine in the Eighth Dimension? For all we know, fainting and falling over is a form of greeting in their society.

I keep trying to come up with a "Bigboo-tay!" joke that doesn't come off as sexist here . . . .

And ewwww...gross.

[geezer]

Point is that this (as far as I can tell) raises no real long-term issues about her broader health - she just got pneumonia, as people do.

But you're not looking at the bigger picture here. She didn't tell us on Friday that she pneumonia. Clinton LIED about her health to everyone and people DIED (well, their belief that she wasn't sick). Don't you understand? How can she be TRUSTED to lead the country when she can't even be TRUSTED to disclose she has AN INFECTION? Is that the kind of person you want for President? A liar? URANIUM!

That said, anyone want to speculate on what the narrative would have been had she instead cancelled her attendance at the event citing illness?

[YellowKing]

Releasing medical records multiple times, releasing full tax returns, releasing thousands of emails, multiple Congressional hearings = lack of transparency

Not releasing tax returns, one brief medical statement from sham doctor = A-OK!

[Holman]

Releasing medical records multiple times, releasing full tax returns, releasing thousands of emails, multiple Congressional hearings = lack of transparency

Not releasing tax returns, one brief medical statement from sham doctor = A-OK!

Pointing out that racists and bigots support Trump and Trump's policies = insulting the American people.

Actually insulting immigrants, Muslims, Mexicans, Jews, refugees, women, African-Americans, the disabled, P.O.W.'s, journalists, American allies, protesters, and every other candidates' supporters at every stage of the race = making America great again.

[Alefroth]

Releasing medical records multiple times, releasing full tax returns, releasing thousands of emails, multiple Congressional hearings = lack of transparency

Not releasing tax returns, one brief medical statement from sham doctor = A-OK!

The transformation is nearly complete.

[Zarathud]

Welcome to Bizzarro world.

[malchior]

Part of bizarro world though is how incredibly flawed a candidate she is. I don't think it is hard to see Bernie absolutely trouncing Trump at this point. Biden even much older and with his own issues would probably be better.

[Archinerd]

I think Bernie or Biden would have made a fine president, but they are not without their own flaws.

[Smoove_B]

The thing that astounds me most is that Hillary is 68 and Donald is 70. No matter which one is elected, they're going to look like the crypt keeper by 2019. I never thought after 8 years of Obama we'd be electing someone over the age of 55 any time soon. The idea that we're back to 70 year olds? Good grief.

[Defiant]

Previously on this thread (back on pages 17 and 18 of this thread) there was a discussion of why the cost of tuition had risen so much

FiveThirtyEight takes a look at the issue

National trends for all public four-year schools mirror those from the research institutions of Pennsylvania, although there are sizable differences across states, as the table below shows. In the median state, South Carolina, the decline in state appropriations explains 81 percent of the increase in tuition revenue

[malchior]

Fair enough. Baby boomers are afraid to give Gen X a chance. It fairly mirrors how the Corporate world is working as well.

Also Presidents usually run around 55ish. I think this is the oldest pair to ever run.

[Defiant]

Also Presidents usually run around 55ish. I think this is the oldest pair to ever run.

Pair, yes. But for individual candidates, McCain (2008), Bob Dole (1996) and Reagan (1984) were older than both of them, and Reagan (1980) was older than Clinton.

[malchior]

If we go by inauguration she'd be 2nd oldest after Reagan by about a half year and Trump would be oldest.