The Hillary Clinton thread

[Defiant]

I like Hillary a lot, but at the same time man I wish Biden were the nominee - he's got a much more natural charisma as well, and so I suspect he'd be up an additional 2%ish.

I prefer Clinton, but I think Biden would have worked well against Trump, cause he has a similar talking style and he's probably the best choice among the high profile Democrats to appeal for the same base of voters. Except that he has substance, unlike Trump.

[Defiant]

Hello, pot? This is kettle...

Yea, but the difference is the Rs didn't have anyone who could survive the GOP primary that could win besides Trump. The second most popular choice was Cruz and he would have gotten blown out.

There were plenty of GOP choices that would have been much more competitive against Clinton. Kasich would probably be up by 6+ points right now. The problem is that the wingnuts are running the GOP right now, so a reliable (but sane) conservative like Kasich can't cut it anymore.

I think Kasich or Rubio would have been much more competitive, though I'm not sure anyone else (among the higher profile candidates, anyway) would have been significantly more competitive than Trump.

[El Guapo]

I like Hillary a lot, but at the same time man I wish Biden were the nominee - he's got a much more natural charisma as well, and so I suspect he'd be up an additional 2%ish.

I prefer Clinton, but I think Biden would have worked well against Trump, cause he has a similar talking style and he's probably the best choice among the high profile Democrats to appeal for the same base of voters. Except that he has substance, unlike Trump.

I think about this exchange Biden had with a heckler a few weeks ago. He's just so much more natural. Which I don't blame Hillary for at all - it's not easy to act "natural" in front of a crowd, especially when you get picked apart by the press for every little thing like Hillary does.

Anyway that said, ultimately any "so-and-so would be doing better" comparison is inherently somewhat spurious, because anyone else who got the nomination would have been put through the wringer and have been subject to a wide variety of attacks that someone like Biden hasn't gone through this year.

[hepcat]

Hello, pot? This is kettle...

Yea, but the difference is the Rs alt right that now controls the republican party didn't have want anyone that could win besides Trump.

In other words,

You guys picked your horse and now you are stuck with her him.

[Grifman]

Hello, pot? This is kettle...

Yea, but the difference is the Rs didn't have anyone that could win besides Trump. The second most popular choice was Cruz and he would have gotten blown out.

Bull. Bush, Kaisich or Rubio would be killing Clinton now if the Republicans had had any sense.

[El Guapo]

Hello, pot? This is kettle...

Yea, but the difference is the Rs didn't have anyone that could win besides Trump. The second most popular choice was Cruz and he would have gotten blown out.

Bull. Bush, Kaisich or Rubio would be killing Clinton now if the Republicans had had any sense.

I'm not so sure about Bush, since he would be getting hammered with the (unpopular) legacy of the G.W. Bush years. Also, with anyone other than Trump this would be a very different race, since no one can suck up media attention (or play the media) as well as Trump has.

That said, I do think Kasich in particular would've been a much, much stronger candidate.

[Rip]

Hello, pot? This is kettle...

Yea, but the difference is the Rs didn't have anyone that could win besides Trump. The second most popular choice was Cruz and he would have gotten blown out.

Not against Hillary. I think he would have been at least competitive and quite possibly winning.

I doubt it. I did my part and voted for him.

If that were true doesn't that make all the Republican politicians that didn't come out and support him when it was obvious it was either him or Trump the biggest dumb-asses on the face of the earth? If you believe that then you have to believe they would rather Hillary over Trump or Cruz which makes the party incredibly self loathing.

[Rip]

Hello, pot? This is kettle...

Yea, but the difference is the Rs didn't have anyone who could survive the GOP primary that could win besides Trump. The second most popular choice was Cruz and he would have gotten blown out.

There were plenty of GOP choices that would have been much more competitive against Clinton. Kasich would probably be up by 6+ points right now. The problem is that the wingnuts are running the GOP right now, so a reliable (but sane) conservative like Kasich can't cut it anymore.

Sad when a party can't override its members and keep democracy from doing stuff. Thing is they usually do, this time democracy has had enough. If you add the Cruz and Trump supporter together that is like 75% of the party.

[Isgrimnur]

It's funny that you think the parties have any interest in themselves being democratic.

[Rip]

Hello, pot? This is kettle...

Yea, but the difference is the Rs didn't have anyone that could win besides Trump. The second most popular choice was Cruz and he would have gotten blown out.

So in order have a better chance to win (and still not a great one) Republicans had to nominate someone from outside the party who is the antithesis to all the values they previously claimed to uphold (except for making the enriching the wealthy)?

I mean, *I* knew Republican ideology was bankrupt a while ago, but it's weird to hear you say it.

Who is they? Therein lies the problems, the party has long failed to pursue the policies the party voters want and now they are rebelling. Had they actually held strong on the agenda they paid lip service to while sabotaging it in reality one of them might be running against Hillary.

[Rip]

Hello, pot? This is kettle...

Yea, but the difference is the Rs didn't have anyone that could win besides Trump. The second most popular choice was Cruz and he would have gotten blown out.

Bull. Bush, Kaisich or Rubio would be killing Clinton now if the Republicans had had any sense.

and Biden, Sanders, or Warren would be killing Trump now if the Democrats had any sense.

So what have we learned?

[Rip]

It's funny that you think the parties have any interest in themselves being democratic.

Well we know for sure the Democrat one wasn't because we have seen the e-mails discussing making sure it wasn't.

[Isgrimnur]

It's funny that you think the parties have any interest in themselves being democratic.

Well we know for sure the Democrat one wasn't because we have seen the e-mails discussing making sure it wasn't.

Because we needed more evidence past the existence of superdelegates?

Following the prolonged 2012 nomination of Mitt Romney, the Republican Party decided to instate new convention guidelines. One of these guidelines mandated that all superdelegates vote for the candidate who won their state in the primary.

Ironically, these guidelines have eased Donald Trump's path to the nomination, as his many competitors failed to meet the threshold necessary to qualify for consideration. Some anti-Trump GOP insiders are now wistfully calling for unbinding delegates from the primary results and allowing them to "vote their conscience."

[Grifman]

Hello, pot? This is kettle...

Yea, but the difference is the Rs didn't have anyone who could survive the GOP primary that could win besides Trump. The second most popular choice was Cruz and he would have gotten blown out.

There were plenty of GOP choices that would have been much more competitive against Clinton. Kasich would probably be up by 6+ points right now. The problem is that the wingnuts are running the GOP right now, so a reliable (but sane) conservative like Kasich can't cut it anymore.

Sad when a party can't override its members and keep democracy from doing stuff. Thing is they usually do, this time democracy has had enough. If you add the Cruz and Trump supporter together that is like 75% of the party.

No one is saying their choice should have been overridden. We're just lamenting the lack of common sense in GOP voters.

[Grifman]

Hello, pot? This is kettle...

Yea, but the difference is the Rs didn't have anyone that could win besides Trump. The second most popular choice was Cruz and he would have gotten blown out.

Bull. Bush, Kaisich or Rubio would be killing Clinton now if the Republicans had had any sense.

and Biden, Sanders, or Warren would be killing Trump now if the Democrats had any sense.

I don't disagree with that one bit. I wish I could vote for Biden.

So what have we learned?

Trump is still a worse choice than Clinton

[Fireball]

I like Hillary a lot, but at the same time man I wish Biden were the nominee - he's got a much more natural charisma as well, and so I suspect he'd be up an additional 2%ish.

Biden would be up 20%, but that ship has sailed. You guys picked you horse and now you are stuck with her.

Rubio would have been very, very hard to beat by Clinton or Biden, to say nothing of Sanders.

[Fireball]

It's funny that you think the parties have any interest in themselves being democratic.

Well we know for sure the Democrat one wasn't because we have seen the e-mails discussing making sure it wasn't.

There was nothing in the DNC emails that indicated any "fixing" of the primaries. The DNC couldn't "fix" the primary even if it wanted to — it doesn't conduct the elections or set the rules under which the elections are conducted.

[Rip]

I like Hillary a lot, but at the same time man I wish Biden were the nominee - he's got a much more natural charisma as well, and so I suspect he'd be up an additional 2%ish.

Biden would be up 20%, but that ship has sailed. You guys picked you horse and now you are stuck with her.

Rubio would have been very, very hard to beat by Clinton or Biden, to say nothing of Sanders.

He would have been a shoe in as well if he hadn't rolled over on immigration.

[El Guapo]

Clinton continues to edge up in the 538 models - now up to 59.3% in polls plus. It's going to dramatically improve my mood if she can just get over 60% (although that's still too low for comfort).

[Zarathud]

Or if Rubio wasn't weak as a pussycat. Christie took out Rubio spectacularly, but only because of a willingness to capitalize on his inexperience.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Clinton continues to edge up in the 538 models - now up to 59.3% in polls plus. It's going to dramatically improve my mood if she can just get over 60% (although that's still too low for comfort).

Anything but 100% is too low for comfort....

[Dogstar]

If I lived in Ohio, I would SO go to one of these campaign events:

Stars of The West Wing are reuniting to hit the campaign trail — this time for a real-life presidential candidate.

A decade after the NBC political drama concluded, cast members Richard Schiff (Toby), Allison Janney (C.J.), Bradley Whitford (Josh), Dulé Hill (Charlie), Joshua Malina (Will), and Mary McCormack (Kate) are set to stump for Hillary Clinton in Ohio.

The Clinton campaign announced Wednesday that the six actors will participate in grassroots organizing events across the battleground state this weekend, discussing why they support the Democratic nominee and urging Ohioans to register to vote.

Yeah, but Schiff and Whitford will be unavailable for later events, as they'll probably miss their motorcade.

Nice callback to 20 Hours in America!

[Defiant]

Hello, pot? This is kettle...

Yea, but the difference is the Rs didn't have anyone that could win besides Trump. The second most popular choice was Cruz and he would have gotten blown out.

Bull. Bush, Kaisich or Rubio would be killing Clinton now if the Republicans had had any sense.

No way would Jeb-please-clap-exclamation-mark-Bush be killing Clinton.

[Defiant]

If I lived in Ohio, I would SO go to one of these campaign events:

Stars of The West Wing are reuniting to hit the campaign trail — this time for a real-life presidential candidate.

A decade after the NBC political drama concluded, cast members Richard Schiff (Toby), Allison Janney (C.J.), Bradley Whitford (Josh), Dulé Hill (Charlie), Joshua Malina (Will), and Mary McCormack (Kate) are set to stump for Hillary Clinton in Ohio.

The Clinton campaign announced Wednesday that the six actors will participate in grassroots organizing events across the battleground state this weekend, discussing why they support the Democratic nominee and urging Ohioans to register to vote.

Yeah, but Schiff and Whitford will be unavailable for later events, as they'll probably miss their motorcade.

Nice callback to 20 Hours in America!

Speaking of which, today's the 17th anniversary of the show.

[Isgrimnur]

Don't care. It's the 18th anniversary of Sports Night.

[TheMix]

Don't care. It's the 18th anniversary of Sports Night.

Awwww. Now I is . I did like that show.

[Isgrimnur]

What could have been:

A multimillion-dollar deal to keep Sports Night in first-run production, despite its cancellation by ABC last month, collapsed when the show's creator concluded he would not be able to continue working on it.

Aaron Sorkin, who created the critically acclaimed series and was one of its executive producers, said that the Showtime pay-cable network had made "an extraordinary offer for 44 episodes, two seasons of shows." At $850,000 per episode, the deal would have been worth more than $37 million, he said.

But Sorkin -- who wrote virtually all the Sports Night scripts for two seasons and also wrote the scripts for The West Wing, the hit drama he created for NBC last season -- said he realized he wouldn't be able to continue working at that level of intensity.

Which is why I have a love-hate relationship with Sorkin, and have never watched The West Wing. I came back for Studio 60, which was better than 30 Rock ever was.

[Pyperkub]

I like Hillary a lot, but at the same time man I wish Biden were the nominee - he's got a much more natural charisma as well, and so I suspect he'd be up an additional 2%ish.

Biden would be up 20%, but that ship has sailed. You guys picked you horse and now you are stuck with her.

Rubio would have been very, very hard to beat by Clinton or Biden, to say nothing of Sanders.

Maybe. He was so dreadful in the GOP Primary that I think that may not have been the case - IMHO he showed in the Primaries how unprepared he actually was. However, if he had been a strong enough candidate to navigate the GOP Primaries, then yes, he would have been tough to beat.

If you were to wave a magic wand and just place Rubio into the General, I could see him being in over his head, based on his GOP 2015-early 2016 performance.

[Pyperkub]

Rumor has it Hillary and Human are lovers -- which I don't care about -- except as a reason that Hillary was compromised.

Yeah, you can't trust Human!

Again, I think most people agree that Hillary is dishonest. Most of us know that most politicians are. Hillary just seems to be a little worse at hiding it. I honestly don't think many of us like Hillary, trust Hillary, or would choose her out of the original selection of candidates to be President.

We are, as so many others have said, stuck with a binary choice this time. One of two people will be running the country in a few months. One of those choices would be terrifyingly disastrous, and many of us are willing to pay the price to avoid that outcome.

The thing about trust and Hillary is that it really depends on whether you find that decades of smoke grenades being lobbed means that there's actually fire to go with the smoke. Most studies I've seen actually indicate the Hillary is more truthful than most politicians.

Here's a look at the Clinton Foundation for you to chew over:

But some Clinton surrogates have tried a different approach: focusing on what the foundation does, rather than what it didn’t do. In August, Clinton loyalist James Carville told CNN’s Anderson Cooper that if the press succeeds in getting the foundation shut down, "There will be people that are going to die because of this."

"The foundation negotiated drugs prices to reduce malaria drug prices by 89 percent," Carville said. "The Clinton Foundation was taking no money for the Clintons, raising money from rich people and giving it to poor people. … All of the people that helped shut it down will say, some people, a million people, had to die, but we had to prove a point."

Carville’s argument raises the question we should be asking about the Clinton Foundation: Is it a good charity? If the Clinton Foundation really is saving millions of lives, then that’s the story — not what favors Band asked for, but didn’t receive, from Huma Abedin. But if the Clinton Foundation was a poorly run vanity project where Bill Clinton traded on his celebrity while merely pretending to help the needy, then that’s a genuine scandal given the billions of dollars that passed through its coffers.

Effective philanthropy is something I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about and reporting on, and so that’s the question I set out to answer: Does the Clinton Foundation do worthwhile charitable work?

My starting point, to be honest, was skepticism. Most elite charitable giving is terrible, more a vehicle for wealthy donors’ self-aggrandizement than actual change. Donors tend to select causes that are trendy and thus oversaturated with funders as is, or to give to famous organizations regardless of merit. Even when they pick a good cause, like global poverty, screw-ups are common...

...But I was wrong. After reviewing foundation documents and talking to numerous people in the philanthropy and global health sectors familiar with its work, I’ve come to the conclusion that the Clinton Foundation is a real charitable enterprise that did enormous good. Its projects are of varying effectiveness, but its work is supported by credible, discriminating funders, and the foundation has least one huge accomplishment under its belt — an HIV/AIDS program that saved an untold number of lives.

And — perhaps uncomfortably for liberals and conservatives alike — it is exactly the kind of unsavory-seeming glad-handing and melding of business and politics for which Bill and Hillary Clinton have taken years of criticism that led to its greatest success.

[ImLawBoy]

I came back for Studio 60, which was better than 30 Rock ever was.

When you say crazy things, it makes you look crazy.

(And I was a fan of both 60 and 30.)

[Isgrimnur]

I came back for Studio 60, which was better than 30 Rock ever was.

When you say crazy things, it makes you look crazy.

(And I was a fan of both 60 and 30.)

I can't let Mortis have a corner on lunatic ravings.

[Smutly]

So, don't bother sending me all the debunking stories. I already know that you don't care even if these are true. If you're wondering, just like Hillary, why she isn't winning this thing in a landslide then wonder no more.

You seem to "know" an awful lot about the people here. Either you are working for the FBI or you are just spouting more closed-minded bs. Occam's Razor is telling me which one to believe.

The last time I made similar claims all I got from people was denial. To say that 'she's just not as good as other people as hiding her evilness' is stupid. You cannot get more corrupt than Hillary Clinton. Worried that Donald Trump didn't pay someone or used bankruptcy laws to his favor is NOTHING compared with this woman's behavior.

[malchior]

Worried that Donald Drumpf didn't pay someone or used bankruptcy laws to his favor is NOTHING compared with this woman's behavior.

This is an incredibly idiotic statement - Trump is ACTIVELY being sued for FRAUD. Right now.

[Smoove_B]

But it's business fraud -- he only stole from share holders. They knew what they were getting into.

[Zaxxon]

And he wasn't in public office at the time, thank God.

[geezer]

And he wasn't in public office at the time, thank God.

Once he's president he'll be above reproach. Besides, Benghazi!!!

[GreenGoo]

The last time I made similar claims all I got from people was denial.

You *JUST* wrote out a long list of sins and then told us not to bother refuting it with "facts". When no one bothers to engage you, especially since you told us not to, you claim the only responses you get are denial.

My plan now, if I bother to respond at all, is just to tell you you're wrong.

You're wrong.

[Pyperkub]

But it's business fraud -- he only stole from share holders. They knew what they were getting into.

He only commits fraud when using Other People's Money, that won't be a problem when he's President because, um, er...

[geezer]

The last time I made similar claims all I got from people was denial.

You *JUST* wrote out a long list of sins and then told us not to bother refuting it with "facts". When no one bothers to engage you, especially since you told us not to, you claim the only responses you get are denial.

My plan now, if I bother to respond at all, is just to tell you you're wrong.

You're wrong.

You're right, you know...

[em2nought]

I don't know what y'all are worried about, with the number of dead and illegal voting for Hillary how can she lose? The election will be rigged Chicago style, just ask Bernie Sanders. Even if every eligible voter castes their ballot for Trump, she'll still win.