The Art of the Donald Trumpocalypse

[Rip]

Personally... I was raised to do both private charity and to not claim everything under the sun to limit my tax bill (take truly legit deductions only). It gets a bit awkward when at family dinners my uncle details how he registers all his cars in Montana since its loads cheaper than in CO where he lives/drives, or when someone else talks about making every hobby a home business to write them off, etc. It's obviously a fuzzy line here, but I'm going to guess Smutly's tax avoidance strategies are entirely less icky and way more legit then what Trump has done.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... -they-back

Gaming the system, all rich people do it.

[Zarathud]

The CEO has fiduciary duties of loyalty and care to shareholders, which basically say the CEO and other officers work for the shareholders and must act in the shareholders' interests above their own.

When Donald Trump is the majority and controlling shareholder of the Trump Organization, then he's acting in his own intetests at all times.

Trump's tax returns do tell an interesting story, one that justifies why Trump feared the political fallout of releasing his taxes.

1. Trump isn't a winner. You don't take a BILLION dollar operating loss for winning.
2. It's a reminder that Trump can and has lost big-time -- and even before the Great Recession. If Trump didn't own the business, he would have been fired. Do you want that type of business risk taker in control of the US economy? Hillary is a safer bet, especially when Trump says things that spook the markets every few days.
3. Trump took that operating loss despite the massive built-in tax benefits of the real estate business. You can shelter taxable gains when buying/selling real estate with tax-free 1031 exchanges of trading for a YUGER building, then taking all those costs and depreciating them over time.
4. The net operating loss provision in 171(b) is used by business owners, not regular people. I think back in 1995 the net operating loss rules were 3 years back and 15 years forward. Now they're 3 years back and 20 years forward. Still, that means Trump didn't pay in for decades and may not be paying in now. For struggling voters trying to get by economically, Trump now looks more like a Robber Baron than an oppressed job creator. As if the gold plated extravagance wasn't a dead giveaway...
5. It's easy to look good if you don't have to pay taxes. Net operating losses can offset 90% of alternative minimum tax, so Trump had a ridiculously low tax cost in business. Trump could bid for projects at a much lower cost -- a YUGE advantage. Trump looked like he's making more money, but not because he's smarter or better.
6. Trump has a history of not living up to his contractual deals. Again, it's easy to get ahead by screwing your partners and making excuses not to pay -- until your business reputation catches up with you.

Trump is running on his business ability -- but it's an illusion created by shattering the dreams and defrauding others. All of these stories could come out if you knew who to ask -- say, the other business partners identified in his full tax returns.

[hepcat]

Personally... I was raised to do both private charity and to not claim everything under the sun to limit my tax bill (take truly legit deductions only). It gets a bit awkward when at family dinners my uncle details how he registers all his cars in Montana since its loads cheaper than in CO where he lives/drives, or when someone else talks about making every hobby a home business to write them off, etc. It's obviously a fuzzy line here, but I'm going to guess Smutly's tax avoidance strategies are entirely less icky and way more legit then what Trump has done.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... -they-back

Gaming the system, all rich people do it.

So that makes it right?

[Rip]

Personally... I was raised to do both private charity and to not claim everything under the sun to limit my tax bill (take truly legit deductions only). It gets a bit awkward when at family dinners my uncle details how he registers all his cars in Montana since its loads cheaper than in CO where he lives/drives, or when someone else talks about making every hobby a home business to write them off, etc. It's obviously a fuzzy line here, but I'm going to guess Smutly's tax avoidance strategies are entirely less icky and way more legit then what Trump has done.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... -they-back

Gaming the system, all rich people do it.

So that makes it right?

Makes it legal. Right is too subjective of a word.

[hepcat]

I''ll remember your low bar for justifications the next time you go off on Hillary.

[Max Peck]

Donald J. Trump, economic genius:

TRUMP: "The news media is now obsessed with an alleged tax filing from the 1990s at the end of one of the most brutal economic downturns in our country's history. If you remember the early '90s, other than I would say 1928, there was nothing even close," Trump said. He later called the early '90s "an economic depression."

THE FACTS: The early 1990s might have been more painful for Trump, but for the vast majority of Americans, the Great Recession, which began in 2007, was much worse. Total employment fell by 8.7 million jobs nationwide — compared with just 1.6 million jobs lost during the early 1990s. The jobs reduction during the Great Recession was more than 4 times greater as a proportion of the labor force. The Great Recession also lasted for 18 months — more than double the length of the downturn Trump cited as worse.

For Trump to blame his personal financial woes largely on the recession of the 1990s is also a stretch. Toward the end of the 1980s, Trump borrowed large amounts of money at steep interest rates to pay for expensive, and ultimately unsuccessful, properties. One of his casinos, the Trump Castle, defaulted on debt payments in June 1990 — a month before that recession even began.

Trump's problem there wasn't that visitors to Atlantic City suddenly stopped gambling — the city's gaming revenues rose every year in the 1990s. It had more to do with Trump's past mistakes, such as selling junk bonds with a 14 percent interest rate and overbuilding.

Also, the Great Depression began after the stock market crash of 1929, not 1928.

[Holman]

Makes it legal. Right is too subjective of a word.

Legal is legal, so he should release his tax returns like every other presidential candidate in our lifetimes. With the revelation of this loss carry-over, he must have nothing else to hide.

Right?

[Zarathud]

Gaming the system, all rich people do it.

Does that make it justified? Let's ask the Rips of R&P past about taxes, tax returns and Trump:

Increasing taxes on the super rich and lessening the burden on what's left of the middle class sounds like a capital idea!

It is until you realize the really super rich don't have much income. They have mountains of assets but the income is trivial and can be adjusted to meet tax needs. These guys have yachts and jets on the company dime and write of expensive vacations by having "meetings" with other whales on how to milk the sheeples easiest.

Wayback

Non-profits are one of the biggest scams we have ever bought into to. Most of them are making tons of profit for cronies, founders, and the extremely well compensated stooges who run them by proxy. It is very common for a wealthy business owner to fund a non-profit to do what dirty work advances the profits of their for profit business but does so under the veil of being non-profit directly. When you get thing like a non-profit setup to convince people to drink more milk, make no mistake there is a profit motive behind those who set it up.

Wayback

Paying Taxes
Paying taxes in a timely manner is one of the important responsibilities of citizens. It is necessary to pay taxes because money collected in the form of taxes is used for building and maintaining roads, schools, fire protection, etc. The different forms of taxes paid by citizens include the income tax, excise tax, property tax, sales tax, social security tax, etc. The federal taxes are used to fund the payments of federal judges, doctors, national park rangers, FBI agents, etc.

Wayback

The only thing that matters to me is that if they don't pay taxes then they should not be making a profit and as far as I know none of them do.

Wayback

I know how we love to argue how wealthy Harry Reid is or isn't.
...
So when exactly will Reid release HIS tax returns?

Wayback

Every time I try to imagine what things would be like with Donald as president I get the giggles like I am stoned or something. Kind of like the Spicoli character in Fast Times at Ridgemont High. A train wreck but so entertaining that you don't care.

Wayback

You seem to give no thought to the group of people who have only a moderate income but are bat shit rich. Of course that group seems to have taken to hiding much of their money out of country. So I'm not totally certain anything will ever get them paying their fair share.

Wayback

Again, I don't have any problems with them coming here and working. Get them documented and identified, let them work and pay taxes.

Wayback

They should be required to pay more taxes on the income they earn. Speaking of non-citizen workers in general, even legal non-resident workers. It isn't like we are forcing them to come here and work. A little heavy handedness on the taxation would be a good way to throttle it to keep the #s reasonable.

Wayback

[El Guapo]

It's almost as if Rip doesn't let past positions impact what he is currently arguing.

[Isgrimnur]

It's almost as if Rip doesn't let past positions impact what he is currently arguing.

Rip's just a temporarily embarrassed millionaire.

[Max Peck]

The saga of the Trump Foundation continues...

The New York attorney general's office has ordered Donald Trump's charitable foundation to immediately stop fundraising in the state, saying it isn't registered to do so.

The head of the attorney general's Charities Bureau, James Sheehan, wrote in a letter to a lawyer for the Republican presidential nominee's foundation that the failure to stop immediately and answer demands for all delinquent financial reports within 15 days "shall be deemed a continuing fraud upon the people of the state of New York." The letter was dated and sent Friday.

Democratic Attorney General Eric Schneiderman has been investigating the Donald J. Trump Foundation following Washington Post reports that foundation spending personally benefited the presidential candidate. The newspaper, citing tax records, also reported that the charity has been funded entirely from outside donations since 2008, when the candidate made his last contribution to it.

The attorney general's office said the Trump Foundation had a registration for an organization with assets in New York but the law requires a different registration for those that solicit more than $25,000 a year from the public.

"Based on information received by the Charities Bureau to date, the Trump Foundation was engaged in solicitation or fundraising activities in New York State in 2016 and was not registered with the Charities Bureau pursuant to Article 7-A, and thus was not permitted to engage in such activity during this period," Sheehan wrote.

The Trump campaign has said the foundation intends to cooperate with the investigation. The campaign previously called Schneiderman "a partisan hack who has turned a blind eye to the Clinton Foundation for years and has endorsed Hillary Clinton for president."

"While we remain very concerned about the political motives behind A.G. Schneiderman's investigation, the Trump Foundation nevertheless intends to cooperate fully with the investigation," Trump campaign spokeswoman Hope Hicks said Monday.

In September interviews, Schneiderman told Politico that in June his office had communicated with foundation lawyers about what appeared to be an unlawful campaign contribution and didn't make a public fuss about it and hold a press conference.

"If I'm a traffic cop, but I'm a Democrat, and (Trump) speeds by me, I have to give him a ticket. It's that simple. Charities have to follow the rules," Schneiderman told "CBS This Morning."

His spokesman Eric Soufer said Monday, "The attorney general's office is the sole regulator of charities in New York State, and when evidence of clear misconduct is brought to our attention, we take action."

[Captain Caveman]

I'm guessing Trump doesn't have much of an acumen for writing his own speeches.

[Kraken]

The Clintons are notorious for skirting the edge of the law ("depends on what the meaning of "is" is) while engaging in ethically questionable behavior that us commoners struggle to understand. That's what puts the crooked in Crooked Hillary.

And that's why watching Trump hoisted by his own petard is satisfying.

It's less satisfying when one takes a step back and realizes that both candidates practice the same style of sleaze, and we're supposed to choose one of them based on who is worse at it.

[GreenGoo]

It's almost as if Rip doesn't let past positions impact what he is currently arguing.

Or any sort of coherency at all.

[GreenGoo]

It's less satisfying when one takes a step back and realizes that both candidates practice the same style of sleaze

Cite?

Note: Republican investigations which resulted in no actions are not applicable.

It's pretty offensive to put a man on the stand and then ask him who's been sucking his cock and when he lies, equate that to decades of shady, unethical and often economically damaging business practices.

[Rip]

I think he should release his returns.

I just am not going to hold him as special for doing what all the rich do and use the laws the best they can. Can't help but notice that all his buddies that do it are giving money to Clinton. To believe they are doing that so that she can take away their loopholes and tax the crap out of them is being rather daft.

[GreenGoo]

Since all rich people are the same, I'm sure Perot was equally beset by these "scandals".

Drumpf isn't especially unethical...

[malchior]

Today has been fun on twitter with people re-tweeting all the times Drumpf complained that other people did not pay taxes or used losses as a tax shelter.

[Kraken]

It's less satisfying when one takes a step back and realizes that both candidates practice the same style of sleaze

Cite?

LOL The whole internet.

You're missing the point if you think being technically innocent is the best kind of innocent. Actionable or not doesn't define sleaze. The Clintons have walked the legal line for as long as they've been Clintons. Now Trump's in a comparable quandary, where taking advantage of the law is still taking advantage. Nothing actionable here (probably, but who are us commoners to judge that?).

[Zarathud]

Tell that to the New York Attorney General who has sent a justified cease-and-desist order to the Trump Foundation over its failure to register to solicit funds. The Clinton Foundation followed the rules, and actually helps people other than its founder.

How about Trump University? Remember, the Trump Foundation made an illegal campaign contribution to avoid an investigation by the Florida Attorney General. They're still being sued, and the operation looks crooked.

Talk to Trump's former business partners, who he didn't pay.

It's not a question of being technically innocent -- after all those Clinton investigations turned up nothing but Bill lying about getting a blowjob. Trump is provably guilty. There's no way they're equal -- especially not in scale or scope, let alone style.

And we're just starting to get the dirt on Trump because he's hiding his tax and financial records.

[Rip]

Allow me to quote the great Oswald Cobblepot.

Gotham America is full of crime, who better than a criminal to clean it up?

Cobblepot Trump for Mayor President!

[Carpet_pissr]

Here, let me help, Rip: What Rip MEANT to say was "Yeah, I got nothing. This guy IS actually more crooked than Hillary, it's just taken me 400 pages to see it. "

[Zarathud]

Old Rip and New Rip both love train wrecks.

[Chrisoc13]

It's less satisfying when one takes a step back and realizes that both candidates practice the same style of sleaze

Cite?

LOL The whole internet.

You're missing the point if you think being technically innocent is the best kind of innocent. Actionable or not doesn't define sleaze. The Clintons have walked the legal line for as long as they've been Clintons. Now Trump's in a comparable quandary, where taking advantage of the law is still taking advantage. Nothing actionable here (probably, but who are us commoners to judge that?).

Yeah that's my thing. Look of the two candidates I hope Clinton wins. But every argument against her huge list of scandals is that she technically didn't do anything wrong. Ok. But man they skirt that line. The Clintons are dirty, even if technically they are innocent (perjury aside for Bill). I still hope she beats Trump but ugh.

[Rip]

Old Rip and New Rip both love train wrecks.

Guilty, and trains not wrecking as well.

[hepcat]

So you're guilty AND innocent?

What are you, a Trump?

[Rip]

So you're guilty AND innocent?

What are you, a Trump?

I'm guilty of being innocent and innocent of being guilty.

The charge is modesty in the first degree.

[LordMortis]

It's less satisfying when one takes a step back and realizes that both candidates practice the same style of sleaze

Cite?

Note: Republican investigations which resulted in no actions are not applicable.

It's pretty offensive to put a man on the stand and then ask him who's been sucking his cock and when he lies, equate that to decades of shady, unethical and often economically damaging business practices.

I won't go so far as to say the same sleaze but I was watching NBR last night and they played a snippet from Clinton's Wells Fargo and Mylan rant and all I hear is "Board of Directors, WalMart, 1986-1992" of corporate management and profitability that led me to personally never shopping at that store. Nothing was technically wrong with jacking the price of Epipen just as nothing was technically wrong being one of 12 people who put the management team in place to keep wages at the bottom, putting suppliers out of business so you could essentially take them over, mislabeling Chinese product as US product, forcing hourly workers to continues working off the clock... I mean, the board wasn't the management team themselves and quite frankly most of the effects weren't exposed to the public eye until after she left WalMart to become the First Lady.

[geezer]

It's less satisfying when one takes a step back and realizes that both candidates practice the same style of sleaze

Cite?

LOL The whole internet.

You're missing the point if you think being technically innocent is the best kind of innocent. Actionable or not doesn't define sleaze. The Clintons have walked the legal line for as long as they've been Clintons. Now Trump's in a comparable quandary, where taking advantage of the law is still taking advantage. Nothing actionable here (probably, but who are us commoners to judge that?).

Yeah that's my thing. Look of the two candidates I hope Clinton wins. But every argument against her huge list of scandals is that she technically didn't do anything wrong. Ok. But man they skirt that line. The Clintons are dirty, even if technically they are innocent (perjury aside for Bill). I still hope she beats Trump but ugh.

But the point of at least SOME of the narrative this election cycle is that she actually, honestly *didn't* do anything wrong. The only "technically" in many cases is that the right keeps investigating her and the results keep showing she did nothing wrong, but because she's under "investigation" it's presumed that there's valid cause to assume she is trying to weasel. Benghazi is the very best example of this. She literally did nothing wrong. There's nothing she could have done differently to create a different outcome, and there's nothing that she reasonably should or could have foreseen that makes her culpable. It's not like, generally speaking, she keeps getting off on some fine or arcane point of law, or a statute of limitations expiring, or a plea bargain or something, but she's tarnished with this idea of culpability mainly because a certain faction keeps insisting that if she's being investigated she must be culpable.

Hell, even the Ironrods of the world figure she's dirty - just because.

[Grifman]

It's almost as if Rip doesn't let past positions impact what he is currently arguing.

How Trumpian.

[Defiant]

I've complained that Clinton has a habit of not being transparent unless she's planned for it, and I think that's been brought about by decades of being under closer and more intense scrutiny and sleazy attacks than virtually anyone else, and under which no one could look perfect. But that still leaves her transparency shy.

But no way in hell does she "practice the same style of sleaze" as Trump.

[LordMortis]

By the by, speaking to both the different levels of entirely sleaze and criticisms ...


https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... dorses-her

[Blackhawk]

So you're guilty AND innocent?

What are you, a Trump?

Getting warmer...

[Kraken]

Tell that to the New York Attorney General who has sent a justified cease-and-desist order to the Trump Foundation over its failure to register to solicit funds. The Clinton Foundation followed the rules, and actually helps people other than its founder.

How about Trump University? Remember, the Trump Foundation made an illegal campaign contribution to avoid an investigation by the Florida Attorney General. They're still being sued, and the operation looks crooked.

Talk to Trump's former business partners, who he didn't pay.

It's not a question of being technically innocent -- after all those Clinton investigations turned up nothing but Bill lying about getting a blowjob. Trump is provably guilty. There's no way they're equal -- especially not in scale or scope, let alone style.

And we're just starting to get the dirt on Trump because he's hiding his tax and financial records.

I was speaking specifically about his tax scandal, but the new hits keep on coming so fast that I can see why you wouldn't pick up on that. The tax scandal is Clintonian in the sense of being technically legal, ethically questionable, and too nuanced for ordinary Americans to understand.

[Jeff V]

I was speaking specifically about his tax scandal, but the new hits keep on coming so fast that I can see why you wouldn't pick up on that. The tax scandal is Clintonian in the sense of being technically legal, ethically questionable, and too nuanced for ordinary Americans to understand.

But it can be nicely summed up as:

"That rich motherfucker paid no taxes while your poor working-class ass paid a shitload." Not so hard to understand.

[malchior]

Drumpf laying seeds of doubt wherever he strides!

"You have 38 days to make every dream you ever dreamed for your country come true," Drumpf said. "Do not let this opportunity slip away or be wasted. You will never ever have this chance again. Not going to happen again. … You have one magnificent chance."

Sad but also scary...

[hepcat]

Anyone who tries to openly riot if Trump loses will get what they deserve.

[LordMortis]

http://www.ifyouonlynews.com/politics/k ... lly-legal/

Where'd those tax returns come from?

[Archinerd]

Anyone who tries to openly riot if Trump loses will get what they deserve.

Is it still okay to riot if he wins though?

[Jeff V]

Anyone who tries to openly riot if Trump loses will get what they deserve.

Napoleon had a solution for that. Can you still get grapeshot?