American torture

[Holman]

much less a Christian, can countenance it.

Christians might not have invented torture, but they certainly perfected it. They have a long history of gruesome atrocities to take credit for, so much so that I'd wager "torture...fuck yeah!" to still be the prevailing mindset, especially among fundamentalists.

I'm not a believer, but why is it that no one can mention religion without you jumping to an absurd caricature?

[hepcat]

Jeff had an unpleasant encounter with a secret order of Templar Knights when he was a child. Also, he believes the Amish are secretly monitoring his phone calls.

[Toe]

much less a Christian, can countenance it.

Christians might not have invented torture, but they certainly perfected it. They have a long history of gruesome atrocities to take credit for, so much so that I'd wager "torture...fuck yeah!" to still be the prevailing mindset, especially among fundamentalists.

I am sure some of them would say "Jesus was tortured and that turned out ok."

[Grifman]

much less a Christian, can countenance it.

Christians might not have invented torture, but they certainly perfected it. They have a long history of gruesome atrocities to take credit for, so much so that I'd wager "torture...fuck yeah!" to still be the prevailing mindset, especially among fundamentalists.

I'm not a believer, but why is it that no one can mention religion without you jumping to an absurd caricature?

Jeff V is prejudiced against religious people, he never misses an opportunity to insult or caricature.

Of course he ignores all the torture that took place under officially atheist regimes such as the USSR, Communist China, North Korea, and Cambodia. But that doesn't fit his distorted view of reality.

[malchior]

much less a Christian, can countenance it.

Christians might not have invented torture, but they certainly perfected it. They have a long history of gruesome atrocities to take credit for, so much so that I'd wager "torture...fuck yeah!" to still be the prevailing mindset, especially among fundamentalists.

I'm not a believer, but why is it that no one can mention religion without you jumping to an absurd caricature?

Jeff V is prejudiced against religious people, he never misses an opportunity to insult or caricature.

Of course he ignores all the torture that took place under officially atheist regimes such as the USSR, Communist China, North Korea, and Cambodia. But that doesn't fit his distorted view of reality.

And those authoritarian uses are *way more relevant* to this discussion than religious persecution that chiefly happened hundreds of years ago. It isn't like torture is a significant part of the modern Christian mindset - outside Dan Brown novels or Mel Gibson naturally.

[Holman]

On the question of who "perfected" torture, that was accomplished thousands of years ago. It's not like being broken on the wheel or pumped full of pain-inducing chemicals is "better" torture than being flayed alive.

But the basic claim that "American Christians love torture" does have some relevance in the fact that American Christians are more likely to be conservatives and conservatives are more likely to support torture. There is definitely some overlap there, and it should be troubling for religious voters. But in fact it is troubling for many of them, just as war is troubling.

I would assume that those religious conservatives who support torture do so much more because they're stupid and thoughtless than because of their religion. They would be no less likely to support torture if they somehow became Ayn Randian atheist conservatives overnight.

[Pyperkub]

It's more the authoritarian impulse to order above all else. Same for the Christians and the Spanish Inquisition.

[Isgrimnur]

Plea deal for accused 9/11 plotters revoked by Pentagon chief Lloyd Austin

The US secretary of defense, Lloyd Austin, has revoked a plea deal for the alleged mastermind of the 9/11 attacks and two other defendants, reinstating them as death-penalty cases, according to a memo sent to Susan Escallier, who is overseeing the war court proceedings.

The short-lived deal came 16 years after prosecution of the three men began.

On Wednesday, Escallier announced that she signed a deal with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and two of his accomplices, Walid Muhammad Salih Mubarak Bin ‘Attash and Mustafa Ahmed Adam al-Hawsawi. Defense lawyers had requested that the men receive life sentences in exchange for the guilty pleas.

In Friday’s memo, Austin argued that due to the “significance of the decision to enter into pre-trial agreements with the accused in the above-referenced case, responsibility for such a decision should rest with me as the superior convening authority”.

For some victims’ families, the deal Escallier entered into destroyed any chance of a full trial that could have ended in death sentences and given people the opportunity to address the men accused of killing their loved ones, according to the Washington Post.

“I would have liked a trial of men who hadn’t been tortured, but we got handed a really poor opportunity for justice, and this is a way to verdicts and finality,” Terry Kay Rockefeller, 74, whose sister Laura was killed on 9/11, told the Post.