Political Randomness

[gbasden]

When all you've got in defense of your guy is "hey, someone else did something bad too!", you should probably take some time to think things over.

Actually, from what I've read I think this *is* pretty serious. It looks like the Obama administration self-disclosed it to the FISA court, but it looks like another case of the intelligence agencies being given too much latitude and not enough oversight. This seems to be an ongoing problem of both Democratic and Republican administrations. I'm fairly confident that Trump will see it as a feature, not a bug, though.

[Rip]

Hey Rip, watch carefully:

Thanks for sharing that opinion piece. If the underlying premise is correct, it's definitely a bad look. George W started this stuff after 911 and I don't remember you objecting to it when Snowden revealed it, but glad to see your evolving opinion.

You might also know that I vastly prefer Obama over Trump, but yet here I am admitting that Obama abusing 911 powers to spy on ordinary Americans is bad. Try this on one of the next eleventy billion times Trump shows himself to be a repugnant ass. If I can do it, so can you!

Now, let's look at the meat here and see if this is anything more than an attempt at deflection by the Trumperoos re "incidental" communications with Russia that may have been procured via this program. Even though it doesn't come out and say it, your article is basically confirming Edward Snowden's stuff on Bush's Steller Wind program and apparently showing Obama did a poor job of reigning in the big data approach that led to lots of ordinary American's communications getting sucked up. Do you Trust Trump to curtail this routine warrantless surveillance method of the NSA in the post-911 world?

If you don't remember not only my objections to the spy state but also my frequent assertions that they (NSA and their ilk) have been watching and retaining WAY more than anyone knows, you should go back and review.

[Enough]

Hey Rip, watch carefully:

Thanks for sharing that opinion piece. If the underlying premise is correct, it's definitely a bad look. George W started this stuff after 911 and I don't remember you objecting to it when Snowden revealed it, but glad to see your evolving opinion.

You might also know that I vastly prefer Obama over Trump, but yet here I am admitting that Obama abusing 911 powers to spy on ordinary Americans is bad. Try this on one of the next eleventy billion times Trump shows himself to be a repugnant ass. If I can do it, so can you!

Now, let's look at the meat here and see if this is anything more than an attempt at deflection by the Trumperoos re "incidental" communications with Russia that may have been procured via this program. Even though it doesn't come out and say it, your article is basically confirming Edward Snowden's stuff on Bush's Steller Wind program and apparently showing Obama did a poor job of reigning in the big data approach that led to lots of ordinary American's communications getting sucked up. Do you Trust Trump to curtail this routine warrantless surveillance method of the NSA in the post-911 world?

If you don't remember not only my objections to the spy state but also my frequent assertions that they (NSA and their ilk) have been watching and retaining WAY more than anyone knows, you should go back and review.

I actually do remember now, mea culpa on that point. Still waiting for reasonable responses on Trump. Like for starters answering my question above.

[Rip]

Hey Rip, watch carefully:

Thanks for sharing that opinion piece. If the underlying premise is correct, it's definitely a bad look. George W started this stuff after 911 and I don't remember you objecting to it when Snowden revealed it, but glad to see your evolving opinion.

You might also know that I vastly prefer Obama over Trump, but yet here I am admitting that Obama abusing 911 powers to spy on ordinary Americans is bad. Try this on one of the next eleventy billion times Trump shows himself to be a repugnant ass. If I can do it, so can you!

Now, let's look at the meat here and see if this is anything more than an attempt at deflection by the Trumperoos re "incidental" communications with Russia that may have been procured via this program. Even though it doesn't come out and say it, your article is basically confirming Edward Snowden's stuff on Bush's Steller Wind program and apparently showing Obama did a poor job of reigning in the big data approach that led to lots of ordinary American's communications getting sucked up. Do you Trust Trump to curtail this routine warrantless surveillance method of the NSA in the post-911 world?

If you don't remember not only my objections to the spy state but also my frequent assertions that they (NSA and their ilk) have been watching and retaining WAY more than anyone knows, you should go back and review.

I actually do remember now, mea culpa on that point. Still waiting for reasonable responses on Trump. Like for starters answering my question above.

No, I don't trust Trump to do it, although he might do it while for the wrong reasons. I can live with that.

I would have trusted Rand Paul to do it, or at least try. He was after all my choice out of the initial pack of contestants.

I certainly wouldn't have trusted Clinton to do it.

[Defiant]

‘Washington Post’ Reporter Frustrated Every Space In Parking Garage Taken Up By Anonymous Source

“I’ve gone around and around, but I can’t find a single spot that isn’t already filled by an unidentified White House leaker,” said an exasperated Rucker, who recalled how easy it was to nab a prime parking place to clandestinely receive privileged information only a few short years ago.

[Unagi]

No, I don't trust Trump to do it, although he might do it while for the wrong reasons.

1. WHY DON'T YOU TRUST HIM?


2. EXPAND ON WHAT 'WRONG REASON' MIGHT COMPELL HIM. WHAT ARE THOSE WRONG REASONS AND WHY WOULD THEY COMPELL HIM ??


Could you please expand on your expressed opinions on the 2 points above, RIP?

[Rip]

No, I don't trust Trump to do it, although he might do it while for the wrong reasons.

1. WHY DON'T YOU TRUST HIM?


2. EXPAND ON WHAT 'WRONG REASON' MIGHT COMPELL HIM. WHAT ARE THOSE WRONG REASONS AND WHY WOULD THEY COMPELL HIM ??


Could you please expand on your expressed opinions on the 2 points above, RIP?

I don't trust him to do it (Note I didn't say I don't trust him) because he can be wishy washy and reverses/backs off his positions too much, as do most politicians.

The wrong reason that would compel him is to combat things coming out that damage him, rather than doing it because citizens deserve their right to privacy and it is the right thing to do.

[Unagi]

I don't trust him to do it (Note I didn't say I don't trust him) because he can be wishy washy and reverses/backs off his positions too much, as do most politicians.

What a load of crap. You don't trust him to do it - only in the manner that you would never trust most any politician?
Bullshit. total Bullshit. Sorry you couldn't confess here.

The wrong reason that would compel him is to combat things coming out that damage him, rather than doing it because citizens deserve their right to privacy and it is the right thing to do.

COLOR ME SHOCKED.
You aren't without reason - and you will hopefully see what he's doing it for then.

LOLS

[Unagi]

and to think - your coloring of this is as good as it gets. lol

[Smoove_B]

Why doesn't this surprise me at all?

There’s a particularly Alabamian wrinkle to the feud, and the demarcation line runs roughly along college lines. In Alabama, that means only two schools: the University of Alabama and Auburn University. It’s more than just about bragging rights on the football field, though that’s a big part of it. It’s cultural. Alabama is considered the stodgier, more football-centric school. Auburn, which is a national powerhouse on the football field as well, fancies itself a little more bookish and likes to tout its engineering program. People joke about “mixed marriage” when an Auburn grad weds an Alabama alum. And it bleeds over into politics. When former Auburn University coach Tommy Tuberville toyed with running for governor earlier in the year, the popular campaign newsletter Daily Kos noted that one hurdle for him is that Alabama fans “far outnumber Auburn’s” in the state.

“The rivalry between the Crimson Tide and the Tigers is a very serious matter, and it's very possible that plenty of Bama supporters won't back someone so identified with their hated foes,” the newsletter noted in February.

[Holman]

Alabama-Auburn cannot be overstated in the state's culture. I lived in B'ham 1979-1984, but my Dad and Grandfather have Tuscaloosa roots going all the way back. I haven't been to church in years, but I still carry a residual belief that Auburn fans are Of The Devil.

I didn't read the article, but does it mention the near-lock that the U of Alabama's law school has on state politics? It's basically one big fraternity when it comes to intramural influence and deal-making.

[Pyperkub]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 02284058/#

More than 5%, or one out of every 20, searches seeking upstream Internet data on Americans inside the NSA’s so-called Section 702 database violated the safeguards President Obama and his intelligence chiefs vowed to follow in 2011, according to one classified internal report reviewed by Circa. ...

The normally supportive court censured administration officials, saying that the failure to disclose the extent of the violations earlier amounted to an “institutional lack of candor,” and that the improper searches constituted a “very serious Fourth Amendment issue,” according to a recently unsealed court document dated April 26.

The admitted violations undercut one of the primary defenses that the intelligence community and Obama officials have used in recent weeks to justify their snooping into incidental NSA intercepts about Americans. ... The American Civil Liberties Union said the newly disclosed violations are some of the most serious to ever be documented and strongly call into question the U.S. intelligence community’s ability to police itself and safeguard Americans' privacy as guaranteed by the Constitution’s Fourth Amendment protections against unlawful search and seizure.

Glenn Reynolds is an ignorant partisan hack. Here's RedState:

Sometimes in the need to “prove” how some mainstream media outlets are supposedly “ignoring” news the critics just get it wrong.

This happened recently with Fox News and Eric Wemple...

...There’s only one problem: The NY Times not only covered the story, they broke the story nearly a month earlier on April 28th. The story was on page 1 of the NY Times, written by Charlie Savage:

The National Security Agency said Friday that it had halted one of the most disputed practices of its warrantless surveillance program, ending a once-secret form of wiretapping that dates to the Bush administration’s post-Sept. 11 expansion of national security powers.

...Not only that, but Fox News also got it wrong on The Washington Post not reporting it. James Rosen is an excellent journalist, and he took to the air to correct the record, giving credit to the NY Times for breaking the story and providing follow-up as well as credit to the Washington Post for covering the story as well.

As for the publication credited with “breaking” a story reported nearly a month earlier, their excuse for not linking to the NY Times or Washington post comes off as disingenuous...

...I have issues with the NY Times and Washington Post from time to time. Like any media outlet, they at times exhibit sloppiness or overhyped coverage to issues that is different based on party affiliation.

Most of the time, both newspapers do good reporting. Looking for reasons to scream bias without doing much digging can end up with embarrassing results like this.

[Moliere]

The Portland Victims Are Proof that America Never Stopped Being Great

Rick Best was a 53-year-old Republican who had unsuccessfully run for county commissioner on a conservative platform that stressed his opposition to tax increases and excessive spending. He was a 23-year army veteran who had served tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan. And he was married with three teenage sons and a twelve-year-old daughter.

Taliesin Namkai-Meche was Best’s political opposite, a 23-year-old liberal environmentalist. He graduated from Reed College just last year, and was working for Cadmus Group, a consulting firm that stressed the importance of “green energy,” among other things. He had just bought his first house.

Micah David-Cole Fletcher, just 21, struggled with autism. He worked at a pizza shop while attending Portland State University. In his free time, he wrote poems, including one on tolerance that had won a local contest. These three men couldn’t have been more different.

They didn’t know each other, and, under other circumstances, probably would never have met. Yet, last week, all three of them intervened to protect two teenage Muslim girls from a knife-wielding racist who accosted them on Portland’s light-rail system. Best and Namkai-Meche were killed by the attacker, while Fletcher was badly wounded. Anyone looking for American exceptionalism need look no farther than the courage of these three men.

[Max Peck]

Isn't it great that all of the countries that Trump likes are learning to get along with each other?

'Axis of love': Saudi-Russia detente heralds new oil order

A meeting between the two men who run Russia and Saudi Arabia's oil empires spoke volumes about the new relationship between the energy superpowers.

It was the first time that Rosneft boss Igor Sechin and Saudi Aramco chief Amin Nasser had held a formal, scheduled meeting - going beyond the numerous times they had simply encountered each other at oil events around the world.

Their conversation also broke new ground, according to two sources familiar with the talks in the Saudi city of Dhahran last week who said the CEOs discussed possible ways of cooperating in Asia, such as Indonesia and India, as well as in other markets.

The sources did not disclose further details, but any cooperation in Asia between Russia and Saudi Arabia - the world's two biggest oil exporters - would be unprecedented.

[Moliere]

Jury convicts man for informing potential jurors of jury nullification.

Wood was arrested in November 2015 for standing on the sidewalk outside of the 77th District Court in Big Rapids and handing out pamphlets titled "What rights do you have as a juror that the judge won't tell you about?"

He was there the same day as a jury was being picked for a land use case against an Amish man and prosecutors say he was aware of the court case. The Amish man had a dispute with the state over wetlands.

I blame the Amish.

[stessier]

I wonder if it would get reversed on appeal.

[Isgrimnur]

Given that he was aware of the case for which the jury was being selected, that counts against him from a mere free speech argument.

[Moliere]

It's b.s. to say that telling people about jury nullification is "jury tampering". It's not like he's threatening jury members to vote one way or another. He's telling people about a legal rule that will never be told to them by a judge or prosecutor.

[stessier]

Given that he was aware of the case for which the jury was being selected, that counts against him from a mere free speech argument.

Is it illegal to tell people about jury nullification? If so, then okay. If not, then I think he's fine.

[Isgrimnur]

Intent is a thing. Us discussing jury nullification is not an issue. If I know you're headed into jury duty on my buddy's case, and I bring it up, it's tampering.

It's b.s. to say that telling people about jury nullification is "jury tampering". It's not like he's threatening jury members to vote one way or another. He's telling people about a legal rule that will never be told to them by a judge or prosecutor.

That's not the law:

[stessier]

Intent is a thing. Us discussing jury nullification is not an issue. If I know you're headed into jury duty on my buddy's case, and I bring it up, it's tampering.

It's b.s. to say that telling people about jury nullification is "jury tampering". It's not like he's threatening jury members to vote one way or another. He's telling people about a legal rule that will never be told to them by a judge or prosecutor.

That's not the law:

Is a news program discussing Nullification on the day of impanelment tampering? How about a newspaper writing an Op Ed piece? A sky writer?

He was handing out the information to everyone. He had no idea if he actually gave it to a juror. That's free speech.

[LordMortis]

He was handing out the information to everyone. He had no idea if he actually gave it to a juror. That's free speech.

I assume if they prosecute him, they will be attempting to prove that he intended to influence jurors outside of open court.

I don't know if it's right or wrong but that's what they game sounds like. The deck is often stacked Kafka style.

[malchior]

Intent is a thing. Us discussing jury nullification is not an issue. If I know you're headed into jury duty on my buddy's case, and I bring it up, it's tampering.

It's b.s. to say that telling people about jury nullification is "jury tampering". It's not like he's threatening jury members to vote one way or another. He's telling people about a legal rule that will never be told to them by a judge or prosecutor.

That's not the law:

Is a news program discussing Nullification on the day of impanelment tampering? How about a newspaper writing an Op Ed piece? A sky writer?

He was handing out the information to everyone. He had no idea if he actually gave it to a juror. That's free speech.

I think the argument is that he planned to hand them out to everyone knowing that the specific jury of a case would get the message. Which is certainly influencing them outside the proceedings. It wasn't like he was a mile away. He was in front of the courthouse. The trial was that day. Now if you tell me he does this every day and they took exception due to this particular case opportunistically then it is a different story. Otherwise this isn't all that controversial in my book.

[Holman]

[Smoove_B]

Hey, remember that time a U.S. Congressman from LA called for the death of "radicalized Islamic suspects" on his Facebook page?

Every conceivable measure should be engaged to hunt them down. Hunt them, identity them, and kill them. Kill them all. For the sake of all that is good and righteous. Kill them all.

[gilraen]

5 people killed in a workplace shooting in Orlando - who needs Islamic terrorists when you have unhinged disgruntled employees with easy access to guns.

[Zarathud]

You are more at risk from your co-workers than terrorists. Over 300 Americans die each year from workplace shootings compared to 6 per year from terrorism post-9/11.

Your lifetime odds of dying from Alzheimer's disease (1 in 47) is 1,000 times more likely than dying due to a foreign-born terrorist (1 in 45,808). You are ten times more likely to die while bicycling (1 in 4,337). You are 344 times more likely to die in a fall (1 in 133).

Business Insider.

[Rip]

No I'm not, I don't have any co-workers.....

[Zarathud]

What disease do we spend billions on that kills 6 people a year? On a cost-risk analysis, this is foolishness.

[Andrew Wonser]

[Andrew Wonser]

I choose to believe that undetermined events refers to falling pianos.

[Defiant]

What disease do we spend billions on that kills 6 people a year? On a cost-risk analysis, this is foolishness.

Not sure, but looking it up, we've spent about $650 million on Ebola research in the last couple of decades, and that's only ever killed two people in the US ever.

[El Guapo]

What disease do we spend billions on that kills 6 people a year? On a cost-risk analysis, this is foolishness.

Not sure, but looking it up, we've spent about $650 million on Ebola research in the last couple of decades, and that's only ever killed two people in the US ever.

First, that's clearly killed more than two people globally. We don't just research diseases that kill in the U.S.

Second, given that ebola is very contagious, it seems reasonable to research it in case it reached the U.S. and to make sure that proper protocols are in place to make sure that it does not (and that we could quickly contain it if it did).

[Defiant]

I choose to believe that undetermined events refers to falling pianos.

I believe that (and falling safes) are either transport or non-transport accidents, depending on whether they're being moved at the time or they spontaneously fell out the window.

[Isgrimnur]

Don't forget those volcano deaths we've previously discussed.

[Andrew Wonser]

True story

[Moliere]

Portland isn’t Portlandia. It’s a capital of white supremacy.

While Portland is indeed progressive on many political issues, it is still the whitest large city in America — and that’s by design. Before becoming a state in 1859, Oregon passed laws that prohibited slavery but also required all African Americans to leave the territory. It simply wanted no black people. It went so far as to make the “crime” of being black punishable by floggings until the “perpetrator” left. Thus, when Oregon joined the union, it joined not as a free state or a slave state, but as a no-blacks state, the only state to do so.

Even as the rest of the country began to extend rights to African Americans after the Civil War, Oregon held fast to its racist origins. When the 15th Amendment was ratified in 1870, giving black men the right to vote, Oregon was one of only a few states not to sign on, and refused do so until 1959. While the 14th Amendment was passed in 1868, granting citizenship and equal protection of the law to “all persons born or naturalized in the United States,” Oregon did not ratify it until 1973.

The state left on the books anti-miscegenation and other laws that clearly violated the equal protection clause well into the 20th century. Until 2002 , the Oregon constitution even insisted that “no free Negro, or mulatto . . . shall come, reside, or be within this State, or hold any real estate.”

I didn't know any of this.

[Rip]

What disease do we spend billions on that kills 6 people a year? On a cost-risk analysis, this is foolishness.

Not sure, but looking it up, we've spent about $650 million on Ebola research in the last couple of decades, and that's only ever killed two people in the US ever.

First, that's clearly killed more than two people globally. We don't just research diseases that kill in the U.S.

Second, given that ebola is very contagious, it seems reasonable to research it in case it reached the U.S. and to make sure that proper protocols are in place to make sure that it does not (and that we could quickly contain it if it did).

Terrorism also kills a lot more people globally and is very contagious.

[Zarathud]

Zika is tied to horrible neurological disorders and tens of thousands affected in outbreaks.

Gun violence and right-wing extremism are statistically even more contagious in America. Since 2002, right-wing extremists have attacked Americans 18 times, leaving 48 dead. Timothy McVeigh attacked America first in 1995. Count the kooks in America, and you'll find more violent followers of Alex Jones than ISIS.

[hepcat]

Jeffrey Lord calls Trump's attack on the mayor of London "Churchillian"

Lord is such a pile of human excrement. He mentions Neville Chamberlain without once realizing he's that historical figure to many of us.